To satisfy my own curiousity and observations, could you answer these questions...
How many of you who have limited opening and/or displaced discs and/or popping or clicking have a "head forward posture?" By this, I mean your head juts out ahead of your shoulders.
Also, those of you who have a head forward posture...do you have tinnitus?
yes the headforward position does relate to tinnitus and TMJ. I have suffered knowingly from both for the past year, and I've been told by an orthodontist and physiotherapist that this posture is one of the worst to do just that, and to correct...believe it or not one way to start is by staying off the computer, because we tend to push our heads forward while sitting there. My question is how many people suffer from lower back problems with TMJ and even worse, balance and numb legs when walking??
Hello,
I personally do not have this, but i've seen cases where people have this due to their bite being too far off. This usually meant their jaw is too far back. And when this happens you'll experience those symptoms.
That is kind of wierd you said that. I was told by my doctor that I have head forward posture. I didn't think so, but I did think my lower jaw was to far back and my teeth are uncomfortable. The doctor said that I had forward head posture because of my neck muscles are worn out from being over worked. Well anyways they gave me flexal to relieve this problem, I think to myself it my dental occlusion to blame. I am not a doctor, but I have read many forums and websites. I think a centric relation and occlussion is very important, even tho many tmj and oral facial pain associations don't totally agree.
Hello, I have a dislocated tmj and limited opening... can you explain in more detail what this head forward posture is? I was examined by the tmj dentist and he said my posture was okay, but i have been doing keyboard work for almost a year now..and now my neck is sore often but I"m not sure I understand your definition of head forward posture..Do you have a theory regarding the dislocated joints and the head forward posture?
This isn't my theory. You can find quite a bit about it if you do an on line search. It makes so much sense to me that I am surprised not to read about it more on this board.
I can't really explain the posture. I'm sure you can find pictures and diagrams on line. The best I can do is call it kind of "caveman-like"...the back of the neck and shoulders is rounded and the head juts forwards...the ears are not in alignment with the shoulders.
My husband has this posture and he has terrible tinnitus and some jaw clicking and reduced jaw mobility although he hasn't really addressed either issue.
My daughter had the same posture. She is the one who has gone through the two-phase treatement for TMJD.
My question is...if this head forward posture is identified and addressed early, could we be avoiding some of these debilitating problems?
Hello,
This forward head posture (the cave-man kind, where the head goes out a little forward) is the result of a bad bite as i've stated previously. Most people don't relate this problem to bad bite. So they think it's just natural and done nothing about it. Once you know it's the bite, fix it and the head will natually go back to normal.
Correct me if i'm wrong, your daughter has been thru phase I successfully right? If it's really successful, then you should see her posture return to normal. And my guess is that, if her treatment is really successful, her tm joints should be near the "Gelb 4/7" vicinity. Do you have a before and after picture of her joints? Compare the two, and you should see that they moved her joints.
It's kind of like which came first...the chicken or the egg...
My assumption was that poor posture caused the poor bite which caused the TMJD. Your supposition is that a poor bite causes the poor posture...
But you are right. My daughter has successfully completed Phase I of her treatment and her posture is better, although I wouldn't call it perfect. Is her posture better because of her repositioning splint or because I have nagged her incesantly for two years. I can't say for sure.
Quote: "My question is...if this head forward posture is identified and addressed early, could we be avoiding some of these debilitating problems?"
I believe so, and you bring up a good point. Forward head position, as well as poor posture/rounded shoulders can and do often "cause" TMJD, as well as tinnitus, headaches, etc. There is much to be found online when it comes to these issues.
One's head is about the weight of a bowling ball. Now imagine having it thrust forward 24/7. It puts a strain on various muscle groups, which go into spasm and then begin to shorten and pull on those within the head and surrounding the jaw joints.
The most difficult part is figuring out if your cervical area is the root problem. The key would be to take part in intense physical therapy, chiropractics and massotherapy, addressing the forward head position/poor posture. I've spoken with many dentists who suggest that about 50% of their patients have these as "core issues." Once addressed, the TMJD seems to disappear.
It's kind of like which came first...the chicken or the egg...
My assumption was that poor posture caused the poor bite which caused the TMJD. Your supposition is that a poor bite causes the poor posture...
But you are right. My daughter has successfully completed Phase I of her treatment and her posture is better, although I wouldn't call it perfect. Is her posture better because of her repositioning splint or because I have nagged her incesantly for two years. I can't say for sure.
mosmom
Well, from personal experience, i was perfectly healthy until i cracked my bottom second molar in half (no wisdoms). I have a natural "curve of spee," so when i cracked that tooth, i lost about (not really sure how much) 2 or 3 mm of space. I didn't know exactly what happened to me at the time so i didn't do anything about it. Waited long enough so that the muscles pulled my jaw up where i could touch that cracked tooth again. It had a filling on. i noticed that i was tilting to my right all the time but it wasn't noticing. i just felt like my head was tilting to my right. i even asked my uncle if my head was tilting to my right and he said it didn't appear to be. Since then, i gained about 1 1/2 mm of space (didn't know exactly how much but i know i still lack some) with a crown. I noticed that i wasn't tilting any more and no more spasms. That is just my personal experience. But there are books that tell the same story.
If your husband does have a bad bite, then i guess it's the bite that's causing it.
I to have head and shoulder, forward posture. My physio tried to get me to correct this but failed, When you suffer the pain that we with tmj do you tense your neck and shoulders and this is what causes this forward posture.
wow yes i tilt my head to the right and i have so much trouble on that side ';;my physio told me a lot of tmj troubles are caused by shoulder problems or tight muscles in neck and trapezius
wish i knew what could fix it
Hi I am new to the board. I have been lurking, but finally decided to post. There is no doubt that head forward posture and TMJ are related. My problems started out in my neck. My neck has been tense for years, but always manageable. I finally got to the point were my neck was clicking, cracking and making all kinds of noise. Trips to the chiropractor did nothing. He put me in traction to correct the head forward posture. After going to a ENT doctor for ringing and congestion in my ears he said I had TMJ.
I am currently in phase 1 with a lower splint during the day and upper splint at night for about 3 weeks now. As pressure has been taken off my jaw I do find it easier to maintain a correct posture and the noises in my neck have lessened considerably. Looking back at videos from High School I can see that my posture was poor back then and I believe TMJ was probably the root cause. The splint theropy seems to be helping, but it is two steps forward and then 1 step back. Before I had the splint if I was to try and maintain a good posture I could really start to feel pressure in my jaw.
Hello, I just got back from teh tmj specialist and he confirmed with me that I do in fact have some head forward posture,and he even showed me the pics..he took multiple pix of me and i could see it myself! He explained that this could have a lot to do with tmj disorders in general. Very interesting!
I think I may have this. But I don't think its the cause of my problems. I'm still convinced that a wisdom tooth operation is what caused my TMJ. That being said I do sit at the computer a lot to work and I do find myself slouching though I try not to. From the research I've done on TMJ I always understood that it was the bad bite that caused the head forward posture and I do find that if I bring my lower jaw forward it helps better my posture - but I suppose its a bit of a nasty circle really where one makes the other worse.
In answer to some of the Q's in this thread: Sometimes I have mild tinnitus and I do get a numb feeling in my fingertips and lower arm. I also have major problems with stiffness and soreness in my neck, shoulders and upper back. Luckily my mouth has quite a good opening (40mm) though I have very limited sideways movement (5mm). I do try to stretch my mouth a bit every day to keep the big range of movement (don't know whether this is a good idea or not though - what do you guys think?)
Would be nice to hear from other people about their symptoms and posture.
Found some info on head forward posture that might help some people:
To assess whether you have forward head posture, stand normally in bare feet with your arms by your sides. Look straight ahead and have a friend look at you from the side. [you can also check your posture by using a second mirror]. If you have good posture your ear, shoulder, hip, knee and ankle should sit in vertical alignment. In other words if you drop a plumb line from your ear it should pass through all those points. If you have a lot of forward head posture then the imaginary plumb line will fall in front of these points.
I have forward head posture and have since I was a child. Mine stems from a forward curvature of the spine, called Kyphosis. With Kyphosis, the spine is curved in the upper back in a “C” shape, rounding the shoulders and neck forward. This is unlike the better known Scoliosis, where the curve is from side to side (left to right or right to left) versus Kyphosis, which is back to front. It can later develop into the term “Dowager’s Hump” or hunchback. I wore a back brace from the time I was 12-14 to straighten the curve as much as possible. The degree of curve was deemed just above normal when my bones stopped growing. I am certain this has contributed to my neck and jaw problems.
Here‘s the question though…how does one correct forward head posture when their bones aren’t made that way, as is my case? I’ve heard of the Alexander Technique, rolfing, yoga. Any ideas?
