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Old 10-10-2009, 05:36 PM   #1
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NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Guys I got a question.
I've been using the NTI for four months now. I had a ton of relief
from the muscle spasms, and as expected developed an open bite.
Oddly, my teeth still fit together if you take molds of them.
Doc said he could fix my bite by pulling wisdom teeth and shaving/intruding second molars. Shown it to me on models and it works. Says my jaws are in their proper position. Whether that works or not isn't why I'm here.

I'm here cause I'm now freaked out by hearing the NTI's infamous open bite is not caused by condyles seating properly regardless of occulsion, or teeth supererupting, but by the CONDYLE ERODING/REABSORBING.

So...anyone here who has used the NTI, I just wanna know if your condyles made it ok. Do you have molds of your teeth showing they still fit? If you had a pre and post MRI of the sorts, that showed the NTI eroded or did not erode your condyles, something like that. I've got another MRI scheduled. I had one before the NTI and all it showed was mild degeneration. Dentist said it could be degenerative progressing, but since it got worse with the NTI, I'm not sure. But at the end of the day, the spasms got 80% better, so again I'm not sure. I don't care about erupting teeth or a repositioned jaw, because those can be treated to a degree.
Wrecked condyles, not so much.

I'm curious what people say, because they wouldn't have a device on the market that jacks your condyles.....would they?
I know nothing good comes from panicing, but please let me know.

Last edited by hatethis; 10-10-2009 at 05:42 PM. Reason: Spelling

 
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Old 10-12-2009, 06:46 AM   #2
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Re: ATTN: everyone with an NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatethisshit View Post
Guys I got a question.
I've been using the NTI for four months now. I had a ton of relief
from the muscle spasms, and as expected developed an open bite.
Oddly, my teeth still fit together if you take molds of them.
Doc said he could fix my bite by pulling wisdom teeth and shaving/intruding second molars. Shown it to me on models and it works. Says my jaws are in their proper position. Whether that works or not isn't why I'm here.

I'm here cause I'm now freaked out by hearing the NTI's infamous open bite is not caused by condyles seating properly regardless of occulsion, or teeth supererupting, but by the CONDYLE ERODING/REABSORBING.

So...anyone here who has used the NTI, I just wanna know if your condyles made it ok. Do you have molds of your teeth showing they still fit? If you had a pre and post MRI of the sorts, that showed the NTI eroded or did not erode your condyles, something like that. I've got another MRI scheduled. I had one before the NTI and all it showed was mild degeneration. Dentist said it could be degenerative progressing, but since it got worse with the NTI, I'm not sure. But at the end of the day, the spasms got 80% better, so again I'm not sure. I don't care about erupting teeth or a repositioned jaw, because those can be treated to a degree.
Wrecked condyles, not so much.

I'm curious what people say, because they wouldn't have a device on the market that jacks your condyles.....would they?
I know nothing good comes from panicing, but please let me know.
Hi--sorry to hear your frustration. I have a question for you. Where did you hear that the NTI causes condyle degeneration? THat's a new one for me. In your case, and you will probably disagree w-me, but I would be more worried about someone taking your wisdom teeth out, and shaving down teeth before you really get a good picture of where your lower mandible's position should be. THat is always the last resort and the end usually of treatment. Have you been in splint therapy? Do you wear one during the day? Literally in the past week I've talked to 5 people (some from other boards) that have develped severe tmd from wisdom teeth removal, and I would definitely get another consult from a tmj specialist. It won't hurt to get a second opinion on something that is going to permanently change your bite. As far as the NTI is concerned, in my opinion it should be banned from the dental field. People will probably disagree, but I've come across so many people that have had permanent damage in their joints from it, open bites that are so severe you need surgery to correct, and symptoms getting much worse after the use of it. It should come w-a disclaimer, if it already does not. If dentists want to give an upper splint that only makes contact in the front, they could have made people an upper that fully encloses ALL upper teeth w-it, this makes more sense to me. SOOOO, I will get off my soapbox about the NTI. Sorry to sound like a pessimist, but I'm done with the dental community and their lack of knowledge in knowing how to treat tmd, and not informing people on the risks of certain splints, orthodics, etc. So frustrating.
I've used the NTI before by a dentist that was clueless in knowing how to treat my case, and it caused more damage for me, more muscular spasms, and I wasn't about to wait and see if my teeth would errupt, so I stopped using it. ----J.

 
Old 10-12-2009, 09:52 AM   #3
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Re: ATTN: everyone with an NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

I agree with above post. The NTI should be removed from the market. It can and has caused devastating results. After twenty years of severe suffering with TMD I wonder if anyone knows how to treat this disorder and insurance coverage in my case has been nonexistent. I guess that is why it is called practicing medicine. Best of luck to you.

 
Old 10-12-2009, 03:49 PM   #4
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hatethis HB User
Re: ATTN: everyone with an NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Thanks for replies guys. But what I was wondering for is if anyone had definitive proof that the NTI did damage to the joints. The notion of condyle resorption came up in that it would explain the open bite, as the condyle looses mass and compresses upwards. Makes sense basically.

To be very honest with you, the NTI helped me. A lot actually.
I'm not knocking it. Different guards workd for different people
It's the only thing that shorted out the spasms and let me focus.
More than any other guard. What I am wondering though is at what price did it come with. So if anyone has MRI's of their condyles and discs after wearing an NTI, I'd appreciate it.

 
Old 10-12-2009, 05:07 PM   #5
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Re: ATTN: everyone with an NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatethisshit View Post
Thanks for replies guys. But what I was wondering for is if anyone had definitive proof that the NTI did damage to the joints. The notion of condyle resorption came up in that it would explain the open bite, as the condyle looses mass and compresses upwards. Makes sense basically.

To be very honest with you, the NTI helped me. A lot actually.
I'm not knocking it. Different guards workd for different people
It's the only thing that shorted out the spasms and let me focus.
More than any other guard. What I am wondering though is at what price did it come with. So if anyone has MRI's of their condyles and discs after wearing an NTI, I'd appreciate it.
Hi again--I'm almost positive that it is not the condyle changing, it's the teeth that are not enclosed or touching anything that super-errupt to try to meet the opposing teeth, therefore you get your open bite. I will definitely ask my tmj specialist on the 28th about this. Good luck with everything.

 
Old 10-13-2009, 02:52 PM   #6
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Re: ATTN: everyone with an NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmitchell View Post
Hi again--I'm almost positive that it is not the condyle changing, it's the teeth that are not enclosed or touching anything that super-errupt to try to meet the opposing teeth, therefore you get your open bite. I will definitely ask my tmj specialist on the 28th about this. Good luck with everything.
Much appreciated. I am still curious, especially since my teeth fit together perfectly if you take a mold of them. That's where nothing makes sense.

 
Old 10-14-2009, 10:04 AM   #7
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Re: ATTN: everyone with an NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

I had to check with my tmj dentist as well about this one as I never heard of that either. He felt the only time this would happen - condyle resorption - would be if one wore the NTI 24/7 and that wearing it only at night (he feels no one should wear an NTI 24/7) would not allow this to happen. He acknowledged that NTIs do often result in an open bite much to what Jill said - the eruption of the back teeth, but this is in most times then corrected through orthodontia. Of course he asked if you had pre NTI and post NTI MRIs done to confirm this acutally occurred which I am assuming you may do the post NTI MRI at some point?

 
Old 10-14-2009, 02:28 PM   #8
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Re: ATTN: everyone with an NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

I have read through this thread and think that many people have suffered from NTI's, including myself. After only one week the NTI caused my jaw to lock and all of my facial muscles to be in agony. Thankfully I got rid of it before it could do more damage. I wear a repositioning splint 24/7 and even though I still clench, I am no longer in pain, I just need my splint adjusted a lot because I wear it down within 6-8 weeks of adjustments.

 
Old 10-14-2009, 06:25 PM   #9
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Re: NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Sorry, but what is NTI? I definitely don't want to use one!

 
Old 10-14-2009, 07:15 PM   #10
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unlikeothers HB User
Re: NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

No, the NTI if placed properly, will stop the erosion. The NTI should not "jack" your condyles but should unload them. Erupting the molars takes the place of the NIT so that you are not stuck with it the rest of your life. However, if you continue to have a maloclusion,grind your teeth etc., all the work in the world is not going to last unless you correct the intial problem.

 
Old 10-14-2009, 08:10 PM   #11
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Re: NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Quote:
Originally Posted by musiclover46 View Post
Sorry, but what is NTI? I definitely don't want to use one!
Its an upper anterior orthotic that is worn over the front teeth in turn rasing the vertical dimension and prevents the back teeth (molars) from touching. It is useful or serves a purpose for certain types of cases or problems but like other treatment options it does come with some resulting "cons" that may need to be addressed or followed up on once a patient is symptom free. Sometimes I think the biggest problem with it is that not all dentists fully explain the possible after results of using it to patients.

 
Old 10-15-2009, 12:58 AM   #12
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Re: NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelma-Louise View Post
Its an upper anterior orthotic that is worn over the front teeth in turn rasing the vertical dimension and prevents the back teeth (molars) from touching. It is useful or serves a purpose for certain types of cases or problems but like other treatment options it does come with some resulting "cons" that may need to be addressed or followed up on once a patient is symptom free. Sometimes I think the biggest problem with it is that not all dentists fully explain the possible after results of using it to patients.

Ladies and gentlemen,
I do appreciate all the comments. Thelma-Louise thanks for checking with your dentist.
With my NTI, yes in the beginning, while I did not wear it 24/7 I did wear it sometimes during the day when the muscles felt tight. I couldn't help it...it felt good.
Why would I turn down relief? I would normally carry it with me and put it in when I felt pain coming on, then take it out after since it was hard to talk. However, that is my chief concern that I may have damaged the joints and condyle, leading to the open bite.

As for the others about supereruption, could someone still explain to me how my teeth supererupted, but molds of my teeth fit together perfectly?
That is my question.

See, I don't care about erupted teeth. That can be fixed. Temporary Anchoring Screws by Vector. Very nifty little devils for this kind of problem.
A jaw repositioned in an odd compressed, eroding angle...way way way different story. That's why I wanted to double check with you guys. I'll be getting another MRI done soon and I will share the results.
This is all about satisfying my own paranoia, and hopefully, paranoia is all it is.

And for everyone to know, at the end of the day, I'm not knocking the NTI.
Actually I think it's a really ******* awesome device since it's the only thing which gave me relief. The science behind it makes crystal clear sense. A full arch top splint ****** me up! I think those should be off the market. Biting in general had become painful with the spasms, a and I felt my bite was angled all on my back teeth. The NTI wiped this out.
Ever since I started it, I quit all muscle relaxers. And I was downing 3 Soma's a night just to fall asleep. Honestly, I would say it is worth a shot, just as long as you have an above competent dentist to explain to you what is happening. and follow up on the regular. If your dentist is the fit you and walk away kinda guy, then forget about it.
Now that all being said, I still wanna make sure I am not the anomaly where in this device ****** my jaw up. Cause that would suck

So yeah I mean everything right now from what I'm hearing makes me feel I'm not screwed. I just wanted to collect as much anecdotal evidence as possible from all people who suspect damage was caused by it and have physical MRI proof of said damage. Anyone with any more info that can help me fill in the blanks, please...let me know!
If my joints are fine, and all I have to do is fix my teeth, I'm gonna keep wearing the NTI

Last edited by hatethis; 10-15-2009 at 01:04 AM. Reason: more

 
Old 10-15-2009, 06:50 AM   #13
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Re: NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatethisshit View Post
Ladies and gentlemen,

....As for the others about supereruption, could someone still explain to me how my teeth supererupted, but molds of my teeth fit together perfectly?
That is my question.....

A full arch top splint ****** me up! I think those should be off the market. Biting in general had become painful with the spasms, a and I felt my bite was angled all on my back teeth. The NTI wiped this out.....
The way teeth meet or occlude - their fitting together correctly generally does not get affected if they are allowed to erupt or "grow" longer. When you think about the process - the NTI adds more length to your upper front teeth - this rasies your vertical height and gives the joints more room - which often reduces the pain one is experiencing but in not letting the back teeth meet - which some contact there is needed to keep them in place - they begin to erupt or grow in an attempt to meet - nothing is there preventing them from doing so - so they get longer but their surfaces still occlude or fit together correctly. So without wearing the NTI the back teeth will meet correctly but the front teeth will not since the NTI was acting as an extension of the upper front teeth - so removing it or the add'l length it gave the front teeth (which determined how much the back teeth would erupt) leaves the bite open - meaning the front teeth can not meet. With natural teeth (I say that just in case others have implants or wear partials)however I have seen front teeth also erupt when they did not meet correctly.

The issue with them lining up correctly on the models is one I feel subject to debate or the possibility for misjudgement - I have seen models mounted incorrectly which allowed teeth to fit correctly but how the teeth look on models vs how they are when in the mouth can often be misleading.

PS I too feel a full arch splint (mine was a MAGO ) made things much worse for me - it took my symptoms to a whole other level and I actually think it lead to cranial distortion and the torqueing of my upper palate and temporal planes.

Last edited by Thelma-Louise; 10-15-2009 at 06:59 AM.

 
Old 10-21-2009, 04:16 PM   #14
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hatethis HB User
Re: NTI: Does it cause condyle resorption?

Alright so I got the TMJ MRI yesterday and I'll know what's what on tuesday. I had an MRI from two months before I got the NTI.
Any changes will be contrasted between the two.
I still haven't heard from anyone who experienced damage to the condyles from the NTI. All they say is their bite changed. Waiting to see if anyone has reports of bad things happening, and ideally I'm not the first!
Or maybe it is just super eruption and some shaving will help

 
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