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Old 02-13-2013, 06:01 PM   #1
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Q about Phase II

Mountainreader - hoping you see this!
I moved into phase II about three weeks ago. I've got a cut down splint and brackets on my back and top molars with rubber bands to get them to super erupt...

I wanted to ask you - since we seem so similar (I had a locked disc which then recaptured using a repo splint, and I also have body-wide a problem with lax ligaments/hypermobility). Did you find that your molars erupted evenly? It is strange that the molars on one side of my face are erupting, so now my back teeth touch, but the molars on the other side of my face are not, or are at least doing it more slowly. Do you have any experience with this?

I have an appt with my TMJD dentist next week, and am taking a break from the rubberbands tonight and maybe the next few days (gosh they feel like
they are making my muscles so mad!)

I want them to erupt so I can take this splint out and run it over with my car! I have a love/hate relationship with it. It has given me my life back, but it is so annoying!

Thanks!

 
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:52 PM   #2
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Re: Q for Mountainreader and Phase II

Hi gretel,

It is nice to hear from someone with a similar story. I really haven't heard from too many dealing with the hypermobility as well. I can tell you my right shoulder and wrist issues are constantly playing a role in my TMJD issues. I've had 3 surgeries since 2008 on this side. That is where my worst TMJD pain was. Ironically my left side has the even worse condyle damage.

While my teeth have always been pretty straight, my bite has become asymmetrical over the years. I found that my upper arch and teeth moved fairly well and all my teeth seemed to be in place in under a year. My lower teth are a different story. They have been much slower. I understand this can be normal though.

Early on, I wore elastic V's on my back molars. They were slow to move, but they did come up some. My right side came up so my back molars are now touching. My left back molars do touch a bit now. I then started wearing my V's on the next set of molars (4 in all). My #6 molars just aren't erupting as much as I need them to to get a good bite. I've really ground them down too much from my years of bruxism. I'm going to end up needing a cap on one of them to give me full height. I had a crown put on my other one about 3 years ago. I'm going to have to have it replaced with one a bit taller. My pre-molars on the right are good. My pre-molars on the left were very slow with the elastics. My dentist under-tied them by putting my archwire under the brackets to provide different forces and they just popped up.

I guess that in general I had some success with erupting my teeth, but not a total success. My orthodontist said he hasn't had another patient as asymmetrical as I am though so I may be I'm a bit unusual in how much movement I need. Have you noticed my avatar? There is a reason for it.

I agree at times with the elastics thing. Those V's were really tough. I've worn elastics from my lower back molars to my upper eye teeth from the first month. Those have never really bothered me much. They help hold my lower jaw forward when I'm sleeping since I had to give up my sleep splint.

The irony of the love/hate thing with the splint is that when I had to give it up it was a tough adjustment. I even went back to muscle relaxers for a week or so because my muscles started to spasm as they adjusted.

I did a lot of pt and trigger point work in the beginning. I've done the same and some ultrasound during some of the adjustment periods to help me deal with those spasming muscles. It does help. I just wish I could afford to do it as often as I've really needed it.
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Last edited by MountainReader; 02-13-2013 at 07:59 PM.

 
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:47 AM   #3
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Re: Q for Mountainreader and Phase II

Mountainreader - Thanks for your quick reply. I am definitely wondering if one condyle is shorter than the other, and that's why one side has the back teeth meeting and the other doesn't. I will say, the side where the back teeth are meeting, I have been having muscle problems/joint pain lately. I don't know if it is everything adjusting or what. I've been in treatment for tendonitis on the left side of my face, and now it feels like it is developing on the right side! Ugh.

Did you ever have problems with biting your tounge when you were talking? That is another new symptom I am having. Ay.

I never knew I had hypermobile joints until my TMJD got so bad last year and I locked. I have been doing some PT to keep my other joints in control, because I've been told that hypermobile joints are more susceptible to injury. I guess that explains why I have these TMJ problems but haven't had any trauma to the face that could cause it that I know of... But thinking about the "cause" makes me batty so I won't do that.

I am relieve to hear that you struggled as well with the "V's". They are no fun. I called my dentist and he said to stop wearing the rubber bands until he can see me next week and check out what is going on. Have you been told how long phase II will take? I was told 2 years. That seems like forever!

 
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:35 PM   #4
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Re: Q for Mountainreader and Phase II

I found out I was hypermobile at age 37. I woke one day with a sore shoulder that I hadn't injured. Eventually I lost ROM and had to have surgery. My orthopedic surgeon told me about my hypermobility at my first evaluation. The challenging thing is that there really isn't one doctor to talk to about it. I have to see a diffent specialist for every joint issue.

I've had tongue chewing episodes throughout my treatment as my bite has adjusted. It really hurts when you wake yourself from chomping on your tongue. Doing good about that right now though.

I was told 2 years for phase II. I'm 17 1/2 months into treatment. I'm hopeful to be done by August. At times my orthodontist thinks we are on track. Some of my lower teeth have been moving so slow lately though that it wouldn' surprise me if it takes a bit longer.

I'll have a retainer that is custom built up to help while I sleep after the braces come off.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:36 PM   #5
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Re: Q for Mountainreader and Phase II

I'm not sure if I mentioned before. I've only ever worn my elastics at nighttime. Are you wearing yours 24/7?
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Old 02-15-2013, 05:44 AM   #6
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Re: Q about Phase II

That's interesting - a shoulder doctor was the one who told me about lax ligaments and hypermobility as well. I've always had a lot of flexibility - always won limbo at elementary school parties, can easily put my hands flat on the floor when touching my toes, etc. Oh, and let's not forget chubby bunny (where you compete to see who can shove the most jumbo marshmallows in their mouth and say "chubby bunny"). It never occurred to me that I was overextending my joints as a kid. Especially my jaw joints! Now I'm paying the price as an adult. I am trying to be more conscious of it, but I have some bad habits. Sigh.

When the braces originally went on, he said to keep the V elastics on 24/7 until my back molars erupted. He did say if it got to be too much I could scale back to just nights. I'm wondering if it did get to be "too much" and i didn't realize it.

I went for a trigger point massage yesterday to work on my lats/neck/shoulder. I have a wicked trigger point in my right trapezius that I cannot seem to get rid of and I think is even causing some satellite trigger points in my masseter. It is a vicious cycle! And after yesterdays massage I truly felt horrible - like that irritating those triggers just made everything flare up. My doc does do trigger point injections and I'm considering trying that for the "big" one.

Sounds like 2 years might be standard then to get thru phase II. At the end of all this (if I ever get there!), I'll have a permanent wire behind my lower teeth, and then commit to wearing a night splint for the rest of my life. Sexy! Better than being in pain though, that's for sure.

It really is good to hear from someone who has been thru this whole process! Thank you for sharing all this info!!

 
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:57 PM   #7
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Re: Q about Phase II

Mountainreader - I have another question for you. I have been slowly but surely working on my trigger points thru massage, and have an appt with my massage therapist next week to help me with the intraoral ones (dreading that!) so that I can find them. My question is - do you have to keep up with your trigger points, i.e., maintenance mode? I am just trying to figure if I will always need to keep on top of these, or if they will always be a problem. Only time will tell, but I would like to hear what you have found so far,given that you are also hypermobile.

Also, in my google research (although not very professional), everytime I look up TMJD and hypermobility, something about fibromyalgia comes up. I have to say... it freaks me out a little to start thinking about that being a possibility. But, the more trigger points I find in my shoulders, neck.. the more I discover the "latent" ones that have been hanging out in my chest, upper back, etc. Yeah.. so just wondering if this is a disorder of some sort... not that there's much I can do about it besides go to PT, massage, etc.

 
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:10 PM   #8
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Re: Q about Phase II

Quote:
Originally Posted by gretel07 View Post
My question is - do you have to keep up with your trigger points, i.e., maintenance mode? I am just trying to figure if I will always need to keep on top of these, or if they will always be a problem.

Also, in my google research (although not very professional), everytime I look up TMJD and hypermobility, something about fibromyalgia comes up. I have to say... it freaks me out a little to start thinking about that being a possibility. But, the more trigger points I find in my shoulders, neck.. the more I discover the "latent" ones that have been hanging out in my chest, upper back, etc. Yeah.. so just wondering if this is a disorder of some sort... not that there's much I can do about it besides go to PT, massage, etc.
I had some regular appointments for the orofacial trigger point releases when I first started treatment. After that, I just went in as needed. It has now been 3 years. I don't go in very frequently but can benefit from a treatment occassionally. (Unfortunately my therapist left the practice and I'm currently trying to seek out someone with the correct training.)

With the hypermobility, my shoulder and neck tension seems pretty constant. At times when the shoulder knots are really bad, I get trigger point injections from my pcp. I've had wrist problems for the last 2 years though and all the splints and ackward usage of my wrist/arm has continued to aggrevate the shoulder stuff. It has just been in the last month that I"ve been cleared to begin doing rotator cuff strengthening again. I just can't afford to get massage therapy as often as I would like to.

When things were at their worst for me a few years ago, I wondered about fibro too. I had a ton of the symptoms. As my TMJD treatment progressed, I've had much less of an issue though.

The initial orofacial trigger point treatments can be uncomfortable and painful. If you can make it though them, you should feel a lot better afterwards. After just a few treatments, I was able to space out treatments further and further. Eventually I just stopped them. With my muscles loosened up by the treatments, it helped the repositioning splint do its job better.

It is nice to chat to someone with similar issues.

Good luck at your appointment.
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