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Old 07-17-2003, 11:39 AM   #1
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Post What is frequent urination?

I've been having to go to the bathroom sometimes as often as once every 3 hours during the day (other times once every 4 or so hours). At night while I'm asleep about half the time I get up once to urinate and th other half I don't need to get up. I read somewhere where you should not get up at night to urinate and upou should urinate during the day once every 5 hours.

So obviously I have urinary frequency. I was worried it might be cancer and went to my doctor. He did the prostate exam, PSA and urinalysis but no other tests. Those tests were normal and since I don't hve other symptoms like weak stream, hesitancy, pain or such, he said there was nothing wrong and it was anxiety.

Does this make sense. I'm still afraid it might be cancer.

 
Old 07-17-2003, 11:47 AM   #2
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Just to add, when I said the doctor did other tests I mean he gave me a complete physical. But somedays I find myself watching the clock once I urinate anxious about when I will have to go again.

I've checked websites since I saw the doc and done searches on urinary frequency but usually its a combination of symptons they describe. Can't find anything talking just about frequency alone with no other symptoms.

 
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Old 07-17-2003, 06:17 PM   #3
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I recommend asking your doctor to perform a cystoscopy and send your urine for cytology. There could be something that cannot be seen from a physical.

 
Old 07-17-2003, 06:35 PM   #4
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Thanks for the reply.

Just for the record, am I correct that a normal urination frequency is 4 times/per day?

Assumoing the once every 5 hours I read is correct and that you are not supposed to get up at night and that you get up 6AM and go to bed at 9PM that works out to 4 times per day.

Is that right?

 
Old 07-18-2003, 06:42 PM   #5
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Everyones voiding pattern is different, not one person is the same. How many times do you get up at night? Is it every night? Pay attention to what you eat and drink before you go to sleep. What you are describing is completely normal. All of your tests came back fine, I really wouldn't worry. If you were urinating every 30 minutes, it hurt, you had blood in your urine and your tests came back positive, then I would worry. Just because your voiding pattern doesn't fix the criteria of what you read somewhere doesn't mean you have cancer. Best of luck to you!

 
Old 07-19-2003, 09:00 AM   #6
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Thanks.



[This message has been edited by Randy2 (edited 07-19-2003).]

 
Old 07-19-2003, 09:05 AM   #7
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Thanks.

Guess what surprised me is that medical sites give different voiding norms. You'd think there would be an established norm.

I have since found sites that say normal is voiding once every 3 to 4 hours (as oppsoed to 5 that I initially read).

Another site said 3 times/day (I don't think so - that figure has got to be wrong).

Another said 4 to 6 times per day and up to once at night.

The overactive bladder sites say more than 8/times per 24 hour period is urinary frequency.

You'd think the urologic medical books would state s ingle normal range but guess not. It can cause confusion and, in my case, it caused worry.

 
Old 07-27-2003, 10:30 PM   #8
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Urinary Frequency--a greater freuqency to urinate than what has been normal for you in the past, and without a change in the volume of urine. (A change in volume would be another condition.)

Randy, are you concerned because you are not in the "normal range?" Not all people who are out of the normal range have "urinary frequency." It can mean they are completely healthy, just different. Or are you concerned because you've noticed a change in your urinary habits? Do you find yourself going more frequently than you did in the past? If that is the case I would specifically ask your doctor why you would have a change in bladder habits.

EDITED: [Spelling error]





[This message has been edited by Cashodeen (edited 07-30-2003).]

 
Old 07-29-2003, 08:50 PM   #9
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The weird thing is I can't recall what was normal for me prior to first noticing I was going once every 3 to 4 hours shortly after reading normal frequency is once every 5 hours. That is what kicked off my concern and got me to make an appointment with my doctor.


 
Old 07-29-2003, 11:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy2
The weird thing is I can't recall what was normal for me prior to first noticing I was going once every 3 to 4 hours shortly after reading normal frequency is once every 5 hours. That is what kicked off my concern and got me to make an appointment with my doctor.
My gut tells me you're fine. If you only took notice after reading what was normal, it makes me think you aren't having anything bad going on. Not that I think you put something "in your head," it's just that it's easy to be concerned when you find out you're "out of the normal" range for something like this.

Conditions where "going to the bathroom often" is the only noticable symptom, CAN exist. If you have continued to feel that something is not right, I would ask your doctor again. But make sure you present him with your concerns calmly. I'm not saying you didn't the first time, but since you mentioned a concern of cancer on here, I was wondering if you asked him about cancer specifically at the doctor appointment, and he assumed you were having anxiety because of that. If you wanted to go back, you should probably say specifically that you recently noticed you were going more than what's normal, and then ask what would make you go to the bathroom so often (whether the cause was normal or a potential contition).


I'm changing gears for a minute. Do you think that besides going frequently, you find yourself passing large amounts of urine? That would mean that you're able to hold a normal amount at once (or even a LOT at once) but because you go frequently, your daily output ends up being more than usual. People with simply "urinary frequency" usually pass smaller amounts of urine each time than the average person.

[This message has been edited by Cashodeen (edited 07-30-2003).]

 
Old 07-30-2003, 05:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy2:
I've been having to go to the bathroom sometimes as often as once every 3 hours during the day (other times once every 4 or so hours). At night while I'm asleep about half the time I get up once to urinate and th other half I don't need to get up. I read somewhere where you should not get up at night to urinate and upou should urinate during the day once every 5 hours.

So obviously I have urinary frequency. I was worried it might be cancer and went to my doctor. He did the prostate exam, PSA and urinalysis but no other tests. Those tests were normal and since I don't hve other symptoms like weak stream, hesitancy, pain or such, he said there was nothing wrong and it was anxiety.

Does this make sense. I'm still afraid it might be cancer.
A couple of things. Randy, how old are you? The younger you are, the much less chance you have of having cancer in your urinary tract. Do you smoke? Have you ever had blood in your urine whether visible to the naked eye or found in a lab test?

Someone mentioned having a cystoscopy. That is overkill. You don't need one of those unless they did a urinalysis and found either blood or cancer cells in your urine. If you've been to a doctor, I'm sure they examined a urine sample, and if they found either, they'd tell you.

The one thing that I think you have is something that I mentioned in another thread in this Urology section and that has to do with water consumption. How many glasses of water do you drink a day? There is a common misconception that you must drink 8 glasses of water a day. This is from a very old study that was misinterpreted years ago. Anyway, assuming it's not really hot and you're healthy, if you drink a glass of water or juice with each meal (and assuming you eat healthy) you have MORE than enough water than you need. Your kidneys are VERY efficient organs, and there's no need to constantly be sipping on water as if you're always dehydrated.

Now, people always ask if there's harm to drinking too much water. Yes there is. If you drink TONS and TONS of it, you can actually get hyponatremia (low blood sodium concentration) and go in to a coma...but that's a LOT of water in one sitting. In the more mild case, with people that drink many glasses of water a day, what they do is wash out the solutes in the medulla of the kidney--this is the area of the kidney which is needed to help concentrate your urine. In other words, it helps to remove water from the urine that is being produced and put that water back in to your blood. This, as you can see, is a method that your body keeps from dehydrating.

BUT BUT BUT, if the medulla is washed out (like in someone who drinks a lot of water regularly) your kidneys canNOT concentrate your urine as easily and the result is that you start peeing more often. I suspect that this is actually what's wrong with you.

If you find you drink many glasses of water a day, start weaning yourself off of it. Drink 1 less glass of water each day and the next week drink 2 less glasses of water, and the next week 3 less glasses of water etc. until you find that you are peeing at a frequency that suits you. Everyone on the board is right, there is really no "normal" frequency in terms of peeing during the day, but if your peeing frequency is disruptive to your every day activities (like yours is) there is a problem.

Oh...and two more notes....the fact that you pee a lot at night is another thing that makes me suspect that you drink too much water because at night is a time where the kidneys are especially designed to concentrate the urine--your kidneys are clearly not doing this.

Secondly, did you know that drinking a lot of water (especialy on a hot day) without consuming any salt (whether in the water or in food) will actually dehydrate you more?

 
Old 07-30-2003, 07:15 PM   #12
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I'm 50 and had never had a PSA test so when I saw the doctor he of course did one. He did the urinalysis and DRE and a complete physical.

My PSA was normal (.7) as were the other tests.

BTW, I seem to pass normal amounts of urine and not lesser amounts. The doc asked me a string of questions like that. All my answers were, he said, in the normal column except for the frequent urination.

He has offered to do a PSA again in 6 months if I'm concerned sso I will probably have that done again.

 
Old 07-30-2003, 07:31 PM   #13
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Just to add, I've never smoked and never been told I had blood in my urine (I get a physical about every 2 years).

Still, I didn't like it when the doctor could only chalk it up to anxiety. I did go in saying i was afraid the symptom could be cancer and maybe that was not the way I should have approached him.

The other factor is that I was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome 3 years ago after a string of tests and a colonocopy. Some doctor's still think that IBS is partially psychological, but new studies are finding a physical reason for it. Maybe my doc is one from the "old School" who thinks lots of these things are in your head.

 
Old 07-30-2003, 09:49 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy2:
Just to add, I've never smoked and never been told I had blood in my urine (I get a physical about every 2 years).

Still, I didn't like it when the doctor could only chalk it up to anxiety. I did go in saying i was afraid the symptom could be cancer and maybe that was not the way I should have approached him.

The other factor is that I was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome 3 years ago after a string of tests and a colonocopy. Some doctor's still think that IBS is partially psychological, but new studies are finding a physical reason for it. Maybe my doc is one from the "old School" who thinks lots of these things are in your head.
Just to add to that, yes they are finding a physical reason for IBS, but your doctor is not wrong for thinking it is "in your head". The thing is, tough, being "in your head" doesn't mean that you are making it up, it just means that the symptoms you are feeling in your intestines are related to how you are feeling emotionally. When we get stressed out, there are real, tangible changes that happen physiologically in our body. For example, when we are stressed out, there is often an activation of the sympathetic nervous system. In some susceptible people, the activation of this can actually affect the way the bowels operate and you get the nagging symptoms of IBS. There are many other ways stress can manifest itself in the body: headaches, muscle pains, fatigue, depression etc.

So, while I agree that the symptoms you are feeling actually have a physical nature to them, I also am very sure that these symptoms have a lot to do with your emotional state as this can adversely affect systemic physiology.


 
Old 07-30-2003, 10:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randy2
BTW, I seem to pass normal amounts of urine and not lesser amounts. The doc asked me a string of questions like that. All my answers were, he said, in the normal column except for the frequent urination.
When people who go frequently seem to pass normal amounts each time, they may find that their daily volume is increased. Afterall, if you go a normal amount each bathroom visit, but you have more visits than the normal person, you would certainly pass more urine by the end of the day than the normal person. This isn't always the case, however, because people may pass normal amounts each time, while they are going frequently, and their volume may still be in the "normal range." If you have any concerns about your daily volume being out of the normal range, you can always measure your urine and total it at the end of 24 hours.

Quote:
Originally posted by Randy2
Still, I didn't like it when the doctor could only chalk it up to anxiety. I did go in saying i was afraid the symptom could be cancer and maybe that was not the way I should have approached him.
Yeah, I don't like that either, and I suspected that when I read your first post. It's normal for someone to be concerned about cancer when they experience a noticable symptom (such as frequent urination.) I'm tired of hearing about doctor's passing off normal concerns as "anxiety."

Quote:
Originally posted by Randy2
The other factor is that I was diagnosed with irritable bowel syndrome 3 years ago after a string of tests and a colonocopy. Some doctor's still think that IBS is partially psychological, but new studies are finding a physical reason for it. Maybe my doc is one from the "old School" who thinks lots of these things are in your head.
He sounds like it. Maybe you are comfortable with him, and he may in fact be competent, but if you have any doubts, don't hesitate to change doctors.

 
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