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tomicavols · 12-04-2006, 03:53 PM

There's a brand of Omega Complex out there that has Evening primrose in it. I know that's primarily for women. Any effects, pro or con, to a man taking Fish Oil capsules with Evening Primrose in it?

6foot3 · 12-04-2006, 06:14 PM

Men can take Evening Primrose oil just like women especially if a man has eczema or other autoimmune issues..

Evening Primrose oil is an omega-6 fat and is anti inflammatory and acts on the Prostaglandins in the cells so its a great omega-6. The problem is that most people consume way too many omega-6's so that raises Arachidonic Acid in our body which is very pro inflammatory.

So if you consume high omega-6 foods like all grains i.e. cereals/breads and polyunsaturated fats like sunflower/safflower which are in most baked goods (cookies,pies,cakes,chips etc..) then i wouldn't take Evening Primrose.....

thylantyr · 12-05-2006, 09:49 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong. Some folks in spite of already
consuming high omega-6 {food intake} will take
omega-6 supplements to get extra GLA. Problem is,
evening primrose oil has a low % of GLA so you have
to consume of of this oil to get a decent dose of GLA.

For example, 1.3 grams of evening primrose oil may yield 945 of LA,
and only 135 mg of GLA {an anti-inflammatory}. The body
also converts some of the LA to GLA and to AA
{a flammatory, bad stuff). GLA converts to & DGLA competes with
the AA to prevent the negative effects of the AA.

Therefore if GLA is what one really needs, wouldn't it
be better to consume Borage oil ?

A typical 1.3 grams of borage oil can yield 300 mg of GLA
and only 480 mg of LA, seems like a win-win situation
vs. evening primrose oil ?

6foot3 · 12-05-2006, 02:10 PM

thylantyr........you presented a very good explanation in the elongation process that takes place with omega-6's. The enzyme responsible for this is the Delta-6 Desaturase enzyme which elongates GLA (18:3) to DGLA (20:3). If the amount is low then all is fine and well but when an over abundance is consumed then another enzyme kicks in to further elongate this along and that is the Delta-5 Desaturase enzyme which then converts DGLA (20:3) to AA (20:4).

So unless one consumes low amounts of omega-6 then the eventual end result will be pro inflammatory Arachidonic Acid. Sorry if complicated but just wanted to explain for those who are learning.

I have two books in my library that taught me about this process and they are ''Fats That Heal/Fats That Kill'' by Udo Erasmus and the other is ''The Zone '' by Barry Sears......

Later !!

thylantyr · 12-06-2006, 08:19 AM

I was reading that GLA has been used for neuropathy
treatment in ~ 500 mg doses. That implies consuming
alot of evening primrose oil or about 2 grams of Borage
oil. My friend is taking 2.6 grams of Borage oil for 600 mg
GLA, do you see any issues or should I scale back to 1.3 gram?

6foot3 · 12-06-2006, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thylantyr

My friend is taking 2.6 grams of Borage oil for 600 mg
GLA, do you see any issues or should I scale back to 1.3 gram?

2.6 Grams is low so that looks good to me.You may want to also add fish or flax to get the EPA/DHA which will help shut down the Delta-5 Desaturase enzyme which is bad. I'd go 1/1 ratio of omega-3 and omega-6.

Anyway Thylantr you've been reporting on this person at the neuropathy threads for a while so they are lucky to have a friend like you !! later !

thylantyr · 12-06-2006, 01:40 PM

The fish oil was boosted from 2 grams daily to 8 grams,
the stuff I bought has 400 EPA, 200 DHA per 1g capsule.
Oddly, the first week of doing this, preliminary home
cholesterol testing has shown *more* positive results, I won't know for sure until next month. Trig levels keep
on dropping, I'm hoping total cholesterol level drops to
under 200.

6foot3 · 12-06-2006, 03:40 PM

I thought i throw this in about TL Cholesterol and that you may want to be more concerned on the HDL. If this is over 50 then forget LDL and TL as the HDL is superior in cardiac health. A good cover article on ''Scientific American'' magazine may 2002 issue, ''A Fire Within, Atherosclerosis A New View'' about how researchers at major scientific labs and universities discovered that most heart attacks are caused by elevated ''Inflammation'' and not elevated Cholesterol. You can go to their site and archive that magazine article although i think they charge a fee....later !

tomicavols · 12-07-2006, 05:18 AM

So help me out...a layman

Is it your opinion that I should avoid Omega 6s altogether since I do have muscle and disk troubles that make inflammation a problem? Should I scrap my Omega Complex altogether (the one with no evening primrose) and just take Omega 3s?
Would it be helpful to post what the amounts are of the 3s, 6s, and 9s to see if I'm getting a healthy ratio?

thylantyr · 12-07-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomicavols

So help me out...a layman

Is it your opinion that I should avoid Omega 6s altogether since I do have muscle and disk troubles that make inflammation a problem? Should I scrap my Omega Complex altogether (the one with no evening primrose) and just take Omega 3s?
Would it be helpful to post what the amounts are of the 3s, 6s, and 9s to see if I'm getting a healthy ratio?

I would try fish oil in higher doses to see if it works in
your treatment. Look at the EPA/DHA content as there
are different formulations. ie,

1000 mg = 1 gram

Most fish oil are in 1 gram capsules, but the EPA and
DHA can be different amongst brands. The EPA and DHA
is the important ingredient, not the really the 'oil' part.

There are some 1 gram capules that have 180 EPA, 120 DHA. Other brands may have 300 EPA, 200 DHA, I've
seen also 240 EPA, 200 DHA. Point is, there are different
grades. Higher grades cost more. You can get results with lower grade
but you need to consume more to get the same EPA/DHA levels.

We are using a brand that has 400 EPA, 200 DHA per 1 gram. I upped the dose from 2 grams to 8 grams a day
for treatment of my friends problem. It cost ~ $12 for 120 capsules. I've seen other brands that cost
$60 per bottle. The market is crazy when it comes to pricing.

My other friend has been taking 6 - 10 grams daily
of 300 EPA, 200 DHA grade of fish oil for almost 2 years
mainly for preventive maintenace, not treatment of any illness.

Prices for fish oil vary alot, shop wisely. I found some
great pricing at costco wholesale. They have 1 gram fish
oil capsules in 180 EPA, 120 DHA formulation, 400 capsules in the bottle for about $10.

If I were to use this brand, then my friend who is taking
8 capsules right now of the higher grade stuff, would require to consume 16 of the lower grade costco brand
pills, but the savings are still 1/2 the price.

In addition to this, I would try some Borage oil to get
higher GLA than the evening primrose offers. A good
Borage oil pill is about 1.3 grams with 300 mg of GLA.
Two of these pills daily with higher dose of fish oil is
what I would do for a while to see what happens.

Buy your fish oil {Omega-3} seperate.
Buy your borage oil {Omega-6} seperate.

Buying a complex doesn't allow you to experiment as much as the seperates do.

tomicavols · 12-07-2006, 03:00 PM

The Omega 3 I now take has 180 EPA, 120 DHA per capsule (2x daily).
The Omega Complex I used to take had 70 EPA, 40 DHA; flax had 200 ALA, 50 LA, 60 OLA, & the Borage had 70 GLA, 125 LA, and 55 Oleic. Could this have been causing inflammation?

6foot3 · 12-07-2006, 03:47 PM

Probably not...you havn't mentioned what your diet consist of. Are there lots of grains i.e. cereals/oatmeal, breads, pastas, cookies, cakes, pies, chips etc...as these are very high in omega-6's.......

tomicavols · 12-07-2006, 06:20 PM

I do eat a couple of slices of wheat bread or whole grain bread a day and consume 3-4 bowls of oatmeal per week. I do indulge in an occasional cookie or piece of cake, pie, etc.

thylantyr · 12-07-2006, 10:12 PM

What kind of muscle problem? What about some magnesium
intake for muscle issues?

tomicavols · 12-08-2006, 05:27 AM

Well, I don't take the Omega/Fish oil for muscles. I take it for general heart health, general sexual health and mental health.

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