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Old 11-08-2009, 05:52 AM   #1
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vitamin D

Is it possible to get to much vitamin D? After taking the vitamin for about 6 weeks I developed a lower back ache.When I stopped taking vitamin D the backache went away.

 
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Old 11-08-2009, 09:47 AM   #2
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Re: vitamin D

Were you taking D2 or D3?

 
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Old 11-08-2009, 12:25 PM   #3
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Re: vitamin D

Yes. It is possible to take too much whether it be D2 (which is the kind usually prescribed for a deficiency @50,000IU in the form of the little green pill) or D3 which can be bought OTC anywhere. It is unlikely though. You need to have your levels checked and it is the test for Vitamin D 25OH (Vitamin D 1,25 is a different test). I am not sure that is causes a sore back though. I know it can cause hypercalcemia. Other symptoms of hypervitaminosis D include:
Dehydration
Vomiting
Decreased appetite (anorexia)
Irritability
Constipation
Fatigue

It is unusual to suffer from Vitamin D toxicity unless you also suffer from primary hyperparathyroidism, sarcoidosis, tuberculosis, and lymphoma.

You can be tested to be safe. I hope this helps........

Last edited by hopalong_too; 11-08-2009 at 12:27 PM.

 
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:48 AM   #4
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Re: vitamin D

I am also curious about the large doses of Vitamin D. I was diagnosed with a deficiency in the spring of this year and told to take 1,000.00 units per day. My level was 17. After 5 months I was only up to 21.

I have been having serious muscle problems and yesterday the doctor prescribed that I take 50,000 units per week for 8 weeks! I'm nervous to take that much, but my research shows that is okay. I'm still nervous about it though.

 
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:28 AM   #5
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Re: vitamin D

I took 100k (two 50s) a week for 4 months. My level went from 10, to 18 to 50. I have RA and osteopenia so my rheumatologist wanted it a little higher than normal, at least 35+.

My doc described it like this, regular vitamins are like filling a glass with water, it evaporates slowly and you fill it up again as needed.

Vitamin D is like a wide basin with a hole in the bottom, it takes a long time and alot of water to increase the level, even slightly. Keeping the basin full to begin with is important, then you don't have to play catch up.

A month or so after my last dose, I did notice some damage to the enamel on my teeth. I don't know if the high Vit D caused it.

 
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:46 AM   #6
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Re: vitamin D

Thanks for that info AuntieLeela, I took my first dose of 50,000 units yesterday. Maybe it's my imagination, but I swear, I feel better! I know, it sounds crazy. I guess it's all in my head, but I think I was developing Ricketts. LOL.

I just hope it doesn't hurt my teeth. I have invested a small fortune into cosmetic denistry. I want to keep my smile. LOL.

Last edited by Kendra01; 11-12-2009 at 09:47 AM.

 
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Old 11-18-2009, 03:27 PM   #7
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Re: vitamin D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendra01 View Post
I am also curious about the large doses of Vitamin D. I was diagnosed with a deficiency in the spring of this year and told to take 1,000.00 units per day. My level was 17. After 5 months I was only up to 21.

I have been having serious muscle problems and yesterday the doctor prescribed that I take 50,000 units per week for 8 weeks! I'm nervous to take that much, but my research shows that is okay. I'm still nervous about it though.
Hi Kendra - I'm a Senior citizen who has had mild autoimmune disease - primarily Rheumatoid Arthritis. I'm now experiencing what medical journals call "Vitamin D Toxicity." It's a new phenomenon, apprarently. I was prescribed D3 @5000mg/day by a physician to help with my autoimmune disease and with inflammation and pain. Most people, apparently, benefit from high doses of D3.
I began having inexplicable symptoms within 3 - 4 months. I experienced severe depression, "brain fog," spikes of very high blood presssure (never had bp problems before), fainting spells, loss of balance, increase in pain and swelling. I was sent to the hospital in ambulance 3 times. No one could figure out what was happening.
Because Vitamin D acts as a hormone, it can have different effects than other vitamins. I'm not a medical professional, but recently was given 2 med journal articles by a kind dermatologist who heard I'd been taking high dose D3. He had been prescribing massive doses to patients - then found that some of those patients were experiencing very negative symptoms. I was told to look for an Endocrinologist or Rheumatologist to get treatment, which apparently involves long-term treatment with antibiotics and blood pressure medication.
I've known about this condition for only 2 months. But I've been very sick for 2 years - unable to work - and finding that this COULD be the reason has given me hope that something could be done. AND I'm sensing the need to warn people to be cautious of massive doses of any substance. If you are already taking massive doses, pay very close attention to symptoms that may arise.
One article I read said that women my age (early 60's and beyond) who have autoimmune diseases are particularly susceptible to Toxicity from high doses of D3. Again, I'm not a medical professional. I'm just responding to your tendency to feel hesitant to your recent medical advice. If anyone who may read this post has information on Vitamin D Toxicity, please reply to me - I'm very interested in learning more about it.

 
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Old 11-18-2009, 06:19 PM   #8
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Re: vitamin D

Hi Francaise, I posted earlier in this thread but after I read your post, I thought I needed to reply. How high did your Vitamin D level get?

I am early 50's. I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's hypothyroidism, an autoimmune disease, almost two years ago. My Vitamin D level was below 20. I was prescribed 50,000IU once weekly for MANY months and my levels never went higher than about 30. My Endo raised the dosage to 100,000IU twice weekly until my levels climbed to the mid 50's. By the time the level reached 55, with a reference range (40-100), I had developed high calcium and became hyperthyroid. I was told I had Vitamin D toxicity even though my levels were not above range. It was just above the lower level of the range! I stopped the little green pills and my level immediately (within one month) dropped to mid 30's and is below range again. The Vitamin D just will not stay in range. I am taking 5000 IU of D3 now and am very leary of taking it. I recently had a nuclear bone scan done because of the high calcium and joint pain. They are saying the joint pain may be from low levels of Vitamin D but I had it even when the level went higher. I do not have any VISIBLE inflammation. The results came back saying, "arthritis or osteoarthritis or prior trauma in bilateral shoulders, bilateral elbows, bilateral wrists, bilateral hips, bilateral knees, bilateral ankles, bilateral 1st MTP joints. Also in cervical and lumbar spine". I think the problem is more than a Vitamin D issue. Why can I not safely raise the level? I am taking Celebrex for the joint pain. I have read that OA does not usually strike bilaterally as well as not the wrists or elbows. Other blood tests such as ANA and RA factor have been negative so I cannot find a doctor willing to pursue it. It just seems like I am going back and forth with Vitamin D levels falling and trying to find a good level. I "think" this whole arthritis issue is involved but my Endo does not agree.

I don't know if that helps but I just thought I would add my two cents. Good luck and let me know what happens please. I would love to get some answers before I fall apart! Hoppy

 
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:32 AM   #9
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Re: vitamin D

Hi again Hoppy - I just wrote a long note, then lost it as I tried to post. Eight weeks ago I made a routine visit to a dermatologist. He asked if I'd been taking Vitamin D. I said yes, but I believed it was making me feel bad. With no further ado, he said that some patients do experience negative effects of Vitamin D, and that one of his patients had made him aware of "Vitamin D Toxicity." He offered to send me 2 medical journal articles given to him by his patient for further information. ("Autoimmune disease in the era of the metagenome" and "Vitamin D: the alternative hypothesis." Both articles are from "Autoimmunity Reviews," 2009. He is unable to treat me, since he is being reassigned. He suggested a Rheumatologist or Endocrinologist. He also said that it was his understanding that a course of long-term antibiotics and blood pressure medication were helpful. (I've developed the tendency to have super-high spikes in my blood pressure, so apparently this is also one of the symptoms.)

I flunked chemistry and am no expert on anything medical. I know only that I have been very, very sick; and now that I know Vit D (1,25-D) can be dangerous, I realize I can trace my symptoms back to the time 2 years ago when I began taking very high physician-prescribed doses of Vitamin D. Around 12 weeks after i began taking the D, I was having fainting spells, loss of balance, chest pain and pressure along with high blood pressure (255/115 on one of 3 ambulance trips to the hospital) and greatly increased pain from my RA. All these symptoms were new.

The physician (since moved out of state) who prescribed the hi-dose D was trying to help with my pain and inflammation from a couple of autoimmune diseases I've had. I was taking 5000mg/day. Now I've heard of people, including you, taking far more massive doses. (An aside: doesn't everyone (especially physicians) know that massive amounts of almost anything are not a good thing??) For the past 2 months, I've been avoiding any ingested vitamin D - not even taking multivitamins - only limited sunshine! I'm still not feeling much better because the cure is NOT simply to reduce intake of Vitamin D. I need treatment for the after-effects of this toxic condition!

These articles, from what I can tell, are saying that Vitamin D (which is also called a "secosteroid," a type of hormone) is capable of causing microbiological cellular changes to each and every VDR in the body (VDR is Vitamin D Receptor, present in just about every cell from what I can tell). The change causes/allows bacteria to build up. One of the jobs of the Receptors is to express peptides that "play a vital role in allowing the innate immune system to target chronic pathogens." When the pathogens/bacteria build up, inflammation increases. Inflammation causes pain, among other effects. As our immune systems are further compromised, they can actually begin to shut down.

Another effect of Vitamin D Toxicity is that calcium metabolism is messed up, and irreversible deposits of calcium crystals can begin to occur in soft body tissues, such as heart, kidneys, brain. Maybe that's why my recent CT scan revealed an increasing number of "nodules" on my lungs, kidneys, and liver!

How sad that the very people who already suffer with autoimmune diseases (that group includes me) are, in good faith, given a substance that ends up compounding pain and inflammation problems - the opposite of what was intended!

This information about Vitamin D Toxicity is new to me (within past 2 months) and I've been busy with a household move from one side of our city to the other. I'm also very compromised in terms of exhaustion, mental fog, pain, and depression (most days I feel as if I have a terrible case of the "flu," but without symptoms such as coughing, congestion, fever, or nausea - just that horrible "sick" feeling). So I haven't been able to do much in terms of further research or in terms of finding a doctor willing and able to treat this toxic condition. But I am praying that I'll find one soon!

This is the good news from the articles: There IS effective treatment! "The use of a VDR agonist and subinhibitory antibiotics has demonstrated the ability to restore VDR function and induce recovery in diverse autoimmune diagnoses." (Waterhouse JC, Perez TH, Albert PJ. "Reversing Bacteria-Induced Vitamin D Receptor Dysfunction is Key to Autoimmune Disease." Ann NY Acad Sci in press.

Does anyone know what a VDR agonist is?? Another statement from the other article: "An open-label clinical trial in which hundreds of patients with a variety of autoimmune diagnoses are reporting improvement and recovery after taking a VDR agonist and subinhibitory antibiotics over the course of several years. (!!) Subjects in the trial avoid Vitamin D in an effort to increase VDR activity and subsequently the innate immune response. The strength of their resulting immunopathology indicates that lowereing Vitamin D intake indeed allows the innate immune system to more effectively target chronic pathogens."

Hooray!! I have a terrible headache this morning - but I hope this poorly written message will be of some help to you, Hoppy, and perhaps to others. I would welcome any feedback. I don't know enough about the site to be aware of whether this message will go only to you or not. Above all, remember to "take heart, there's hope"!

 
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Old 11-20-2009, 09:31 AM   #10
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Re: vitamin D

It seems that you guys are having more problems than me! Yikes, I hope that I don't develop any more symptoms than I have now. My main problem is stiff leg and arm muscles and also some pain now in both my arms and legs, although the pain is not constant, the stiffness is. NOt the joints just the muscles.

I took my second 50,000 units of Vitamin D yesterday. So far no problems. I actually think I feel better. (I lost my lethargy and most of the fog when my thyroid was properly adjusted.) I actually think I am feeling better and that the stiffness has improved!!!! Yeah!!! I'm going to wait and see if it continues. I hope so.

I'm supposed to have my Vit D level checked in 8 weeks. I hope it levels off to a good number.

Do you guys both have a good Endo and Rheumologist? I do and despite that my Endo was wanting to keep me on 1,000 units per day and wait and see, but the Rheumie prescribed the 50,000 per week. I think it is because she is trying to rule out the cause for the muscle problems.

I might also recommend you check the internet for any clinical trials in your area. Maybe they can help you.

Please keep me posted and I will do the same.

 
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:12 AM   #11
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Re: vitamin D

Hi Kendra! You seem to have excellent medical providers. I'll be hoping along with you that you'll soon find the most relief! Keep us posted. Francaise

 
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Old 11-21-2009, 07:18 AM   #12
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Re: vitamin D

Hi again Hoppy - I've realized that I didn't actually respond to what you had asked. Still very new to computer use for communicating, and even newer to this site. How are you doing? - Francaise

 
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:19 AM   #13
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Re: vitamin D

Francaise, Are we talking about different issues. You mention Vitamin D 1,25. I am talking about Vitamin D 25OH which is completely different.

Do you know the difference? Which one was measured for you (or both)? My 1,25 was normal. It was the Vitamin D 25OH that was low and then high and now low again. The reference range is usually 32-100 or 40-100 depending on the lab.

 
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Old 11-21-2009, 09:58 AM   #14
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Re: vitamin D

It is the D 25OH that needs to be tested and many docs don't test for this. You may have to ask and even then they may not, in my experience.

 
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:33 PM   #15
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Re: vitamin D

My doc told me that the only test to use was the Vitamin D 25 OH test, which is not a standard test. The other Vit D test will show normal levels when there are issues.

My story is that I was having many, many issues that included intense migraines that were constant for over 3 months, brain fog, and I felt horrible. Went to the doc who ran the standard blood tests and informed me that I had high calcium (13.5). He stated that this level often indicated cancer, but wanted to wait 2 months to repeat the test.

Well, needless to say, I got a 2nd opinion! The 2nd doc ran different tests, including the Vit D 25OH test. And, it came back that I had such a low level of Vitamin D hormone that they couldn't actually measure it!! The test result said <0.7. The doc had never seen a level this low. She promptly put me on 50,000 IU Vitamin D daily for 12 months, and then continued with 50,000 IU 3 times a week for another 6 months, and 50,000 IU once a week for another 6 months. Tests ran every 2-3 months to closely monitor my levels.

Once I reached the 80% mark, then the doctor had me switch to 5,000 IU D3 daily. And have been on this dose for a couple of years now. And, my body is no longer leaching out the calcium trying to compensate for the lack of Vitamin D.

What this all boils down to is that everyone is different. For the best health benefit your Vitamin D 25 OH levels should be in the 80-100% levels as this hormone is used as a building block for multiple systems. Because I had such a low level of Vit D, I also had issues with the estrogen-progesterone balance, high testosterone, hypothyroid, cortisol issues, PCOS, etc.

Because of this building block hormone, it is possible you feel like you do because of other imbalances caused by a lack of Vitamin D and not the meds itself. Some individuals do not tollerate the high doses of D2 (50,000 IU). If you have a bad reaction to taking the higher doses of D2, you do have the option of sitting in the sun as little as 1 1/2 hours a week to naturally create the D your body needs or taking D3. No matter which avenue you decide to follow, do not let your D levels get any lower or your body will go into a tailspin like mine did.

It has taken me 5 years to get where I am today. And, I'm still dealing with thyroid and adrenal issues. I no longer get migraines! And, am able to function on a daily basis. When the thyroid and adrenal issues are correctly treated, I'm hopeful that I will feel better yet.

Good luck to you. The best advice I got from the 2nd doc was to listen to your body. It knows what it needs. The trick is in understanding what it is telling you.

 
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