Re: Intravenous Vitamin C Drips for Hepatitis C
Re: Intravenous Vitamin C Drips for Hepatitis C
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Posted by sean
on October 12, 2000 at 14:31:22:
In Reply to: Re: Intravenous Vitamin C Drips for Hepatitis C posted by Tim on October 12, 2000 at 12:20:16:
whew! lots of heat here, how much light?
for what its worth, i have hcv, believe that some alternative approaches--most certainly including antoxidants and antoxidant vitamins like vit c and e--have real value. Maybe you'd accept, therefore, my agreement with thanbey on this. some of us ARE a little more desperate than our individual conditions or risks might warrant. we DO tend to invest too much hope in poorly-supported, hypothetical treatments. it's only natural that we might. having someone a little more objective look over the material, the theories, etc. is a good thing, not a deficit.
i take vitamin c, but in moderate doses--less than a gram a day. yes, there is research that shows it is an important antoxidant, and there is also research that shows that in high does vit c can be a PRO-oxidant. this is true of a few of the nutritional antoxidants, most famously beta-carotene. (NOT true of vit E, by the way--high doses of e seem to have fewer risks). in vitamin c's case, this is compounded by the fact that in high doses it leads to increased iron load in the liver. whether this is directly harmful is not certain, but it sure can't be seen as a helpful development. iron is usually considered the enemy of liver recovery, it may be a key catalyst in the destructive interactions that kill liver cells.
SO, i would be wary of taking very high doses of c, especially iv. does it have more merit that this statement comes from someone with hcv, rather than someone who has devoted hours to studying hcv? i don't see it.
: : : : : Dear Thanbey:
: Thanks for the speedy reply and for providing the information on the board that you provide to the thousands of people with Hepatitis C that tune in. I have read ALL of the posts down the page that you have written about interferons and I have no doubt that you are very knowledgeable about the subject. I did not mean to imply that you are "in cahoots" with the drug companies, so to speak. As you know, Interferon is relatively ineffective and primitive when considering the vast array of negative side effects it produces. Unfortunately for people with HCV, even though the "body of knowledge" on HCV has been around for 10 years, Interferon still represents the state of the art treatment by conventional medicine standards. Until recently, HCV research has been on a very remote "back burner" in relation to other more politically funded diseases. So I respectfully disagree with you. The research on HCV, even though ongoing and rapidly accelerating, is still relatively embryonic in scope.
: The original question responded to the use of therapeutic doses of Vitamin C by IV for a possible treatment. I'm not sure what you are referring to with regard to the liver enzyme/fatigue symptom relationship. That must be another question. I am sure that HCV sufferers do not need mere lip service paid to potential alternative treatment methods. From your response, it is obvious that you do not have HCV HCV. Otherwise, you would understand that for the millions of people that do have HCV, simply changing your lifestyle and hoping such a change prevents the disease from quietly destroying your liver is an unacceptable approach. Of course, people with HCV have to change their lifestyles permanently. You are absolutely correct about that. However, it is critical to the emotional, psychological, and physiological well-being of the HCV sufferer that an affordable, viable, proactive therapeutic treatment be found. It is not enough to simply leave the liver alone!!!
: You say you have no investment in being an expert and that you are not a doctor. It is also obvious that you do not have the disease yourself. With all due respect, what exactly is the motivation for your intensive involvement in the study and dissemination of information on HCV?
: atments because people with Hepatitis C are desperate and conventional treatment is virtually nonexistent. If you had the disease you would be desperate too. So please stop telling people not to at least try alternative treatments that may have some promise. How do you know these treatments won't work at least as well or better than what conventional medicine has to offer? Research on Hepatitis C is relatively embryonic. Are people supposed to wait around until conventional medicine expends enough resources to find a viable treatment? Do you think interferon is inexpensive or that the manufacturers of interferon aren't profiting from its sale? You are not even a doctor yet you speak as though you are an expert on Hepatitis C.
: : : Has anyone tried IV Vitamin C drips to lower liver enzymes...to feel less fatigued? I'd appreciate your responses? For that matter, has anyone tried ozone treatment?
: : : : Dear Pam,
: : : : From my mailbag I learn about the strangest things people will do to rid themselves of the virus.
: : : : Unfortunately, there is no scientific clinical data to show that either of these "treatments" will reduce your viral load or your liver enzymes. I believe there is proof they will lighten your wallet.
: : : : Currently, we have interferon therapy. Interferon alone has been shown to improve liver enzymes and to even improve the health of the liver. It is not a cure and it has a sustained viral clearance rate of abour 30 per cent for one year. Beyond that, we are still gathering data.
: : : : I hope this helps,
: : : : thanbey
: : : : www.hcop.org
: : Dear Tim,
: : I am not a doctor. I have stated that repeatedly on this board. I have spent many hours not only attending the major liver conferences, but consulting with the major experts in this country, (including other disciplines like CAM, nutrition, endocrinology and neurology)You can check out the advisory board on our website and my own message there on how Hepatitis C Outreach Project came to be.
: : Obviously you have not read the posts down the page that I have written about the interferons. And if you have any notions that I am a friend to the industry, you really haven't done your homework! I confronted the CEO of a major drug company with their marketing practices to his face. I also refused their largesse when they asked me to help promote their product as a cure. For my opinion on interferons, please read the posts down the page.
: : In the first place few people really require any treatment at all. We are so programmed to DO something (anything) once we are diagnosed with a disease, that many people will grasp at any kind of medicine, or pseudo-medicine. Thus the desperation when it may not be the appropriate response. Perhaps looking at desperation as its own process might be one answer to the dilemma of desperation.
: : Leaving the liver alone, removing toxins from your environment or diet, no alcohol or smoking are all strategies that really help the vast majority of patients feel less fatigued. Also making concessions, like naps and hot tubs for muscle aches, and exercise for fatigue are also strategies that people have found works for them. I believe there actually are studies supporting the exercise. Does it have to be a pill or a shot of something?
: : It might amaze you to know how many people simply refuse to believe that smoking cigarettes or marijuana is bad for the liver. That is a medical fact, not a political statement. Secondly, for those who have symptoms, relief is hard to find in ANY form because so many things are not liver friendly. I would like to remind you that alternative medicines also have the potential to be toxic. Simply because they sound harmless and are "natural" substances does not mean they are harmless.
: : There is research into alternative medicines which is ongoing. In fact, the subject now forms a part of the American Association of Liver Disease Conference (www.aasld.org) coming up at the end of October. The NIH has ongoing studies as well.
: : So, I don't know the basis of your comments exactly because, in fact, there is a lot of support for the use of CAM (Complimentary/ Alternative Medicine). There are now books on the subject written by Hepatologists and TCM, Naturopaths and others on the subject.
: : I will be a co-investigator on a research study beginning in January with a neurologist. You are right and you are qwrong. The body of knowledge about HCV is about ten years old. That leaves a lot of research to do. But you are also wrong. There is a great deal of research going on.
: : I have no investment in being an expert. I have access to information which I try to share. If I don't know about something, I say so. I know of no study or report linking fatigue to liver enzymes. That was the original question, I believe.
: : If you have clinical data linking 1) liver enzymes to fatigue symptoms and 2) on this treatment relieving the symptroms by lowering liver enzymers, please share it. I would like very much to know what the scientific basis for this treatment is and what documented studies have backed up the claims. Those are the same questions I would ask of any treatment, conventional or alternative.
: : I hope this answers your questions.
: : thanbey
: : www.hcop.org