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Re: To Tree Frog

Re: To Tree Frog

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Posted by Tina on August 05, 2000 at 10:19:32:

In Reply to: To Tina posted by Tree Frog on August 04, 2000 at 01:31:25:

: Hi,
: When I reply to a message, what I sometimes do is click on the subject box, highlight the words, delete them, and repost in the message box.

: Or you can do that to part of the message and then edit it.

: I am glad you are doing so well!
: I REALLY wanted to try Armour first, myself.
: But I was contrained by finanaces, at the time, to try to work within my health insurance.
: I changed doctors and even medical groups until I found a good endo that is up on the current treatments.

: I studied everything I could to be sure the T4 I took would be effective as optimally as possible, such as taking it on an empty stomach, with selenium, not with thyroid binding supplements or foods, such as calcium, etc.
: It has paid off, as I am doing very well on just the T4. A major cause of synthetic thyroid failure is lack of patient complince and/or undermedicating, and docs that don't provide proper dosing instructions. I certainly had to find out for myself how to best take Synthroid.
: But if the new dose is not enough to get rid of the last trace of mental dullness, then I will, thanks to my doc, get to try the T3 also.

: While Armour and T3 have an effect on mental fogginess that had not been helped by T4 alone, it is not always necessary. The study on T3 was done on only 33 or so people, and was not conclusive that T3 treatment is always needed. It concluded that more study needs to be done.

: I am sharing this so that others who can't pay a naturopath or other alternative doctor know there is still hope for them within the medical system.

: My endo is a medical endocrinologist. She told me that the story that many people cannot convert T4 into T3 is a myth propagated by natural healers, that only seems to be true due to the effect T3 has on the brain.

: There are only a very few families with that disorder, and it is a serious illness. T4 conversion is done at the cellular level and no one can measure that.
: They can only measure blood levels, which tell nothing about the T3 in the cells. That most people do respond well to T4 alone if taken properly, shows that they are converting T4 into T3. I was surprised to learn many of my friends are hypo and have been doing very well on Synthroid for many years. I did not even know they were hypo, but was told when it came out that I am too.

: Certainly pure T3 in the blood does affect the brain in such a way to make one feel good.
: That is why psychiatrists prescribe it. The blood thyroid level will balance out about the same with or without the additional T3. The body still will use just the thyroid it needs before it goes hyper.

: I hope they don't drop the ball, and that they do the additional studies that all thyroid patients need and deserve, and that every doctor will come up to speed on thyroid. Certianly I hope the ENDOS get it together! Many of them do not understand that TSH needs to be much lower than the lab range allows for normalcy. TF


Thanks Tree Frog,

Think I got it ! Thanks!

It is a shame that Doctor's don't tell you all you need to know when taking a drug, isn't it! But then we all don't react to the same drug in the same way either so I guess it must be hard to know who is going to need what additional elements or need to take their medication in a certain way. Or even who is going to be allergic to a certain dye or filler in any given dose. However you'd think they could print/copy the page from their PDR or the insert from the medication and give it to their patient when starting them on a new drug. That would help somewhat though not entirely as we are all different.

My mother has been taking Snythroid for 30 years and they only thing she has ever had to pay attention to is..to make sure she takes's it in the morning. She's always taken it with a cup of cream and sugar with a bit of coffee in it! LOL. She has never had to take supplements or watch what she eats, nothing. Outside of a very serious bout with edema shortly after her thyroidectomy she's never even gained a pound. At 82 (in 3 days) she's still going strong with just her Snythroid and she's never known what her TSH levels were! She doesn't need or want to know, she takes her pill and she feels great. My sister's the same way, been taking it for 20+ years with no problem or knowledge of anything but to take it every morning. I thought it would work for me the same way, didn't. L But then we (my mother, sister and I) didn't have the same form of the disease just as you and I most likely don't. So I could never say that you would need or benefit from adding T3 or anything else, just because I do.
We are all different. What works for one may not work for the other, so I always try to remember to say…"for me, Armour works." I hope that it is never taken that I advocate it for everyone by sharing the fact that it does work for me. And, for me, it is not the affect on the "mental fogginess" that has been the high point of using it, since that isn't completely gone yet (but is improving). It has, for me, been the total elimination of pain and weakness in my joints and muscles. This is not the only benefit that I have derived from it but the list is too long to bore you with. But I think it's fair to tell people that if just getting to a TSH of 1 or 2, taking their medicine in the best way, staying away from certain foods and supplements, or taking certain supplements doesn't work for them…there are other things that work for some people. It may not be just the thyroid either, they may need to have their adrenals or other hormones checked.

I do take exception to what your Endo said "My endo is a medical endocrinologist. She told me that the story that many people cannot convert T4 into T3 is a myth propagated by natural healers, that only seems to be true due to the effect T3 has on the brain. "
The best and most accurate thing she said is "only SEEMS". Which, really says that she doesn't know for sure and is astute enough not to state it as fact. So I'd ask her for her data to back up her statement! Have you read Mary's interview with either Dr. Brownstein or Dr. Derry in the newsletter last week? Perhaps your Endo could benefit by reading them also. For anyone interested in reading either of these interviews go to.. http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa071700a.htm for the interview with Dr. Brownstein, titled "Natural Hormones for Hypothyroidism" or
http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa072500a.htm for Rethinking the TSH test : and interview with David Derry, M.D., Ph.D. Both are very informative and thought provoking.

I know that the T3 study was small, only 33 people. But did you read in the BMJ
"The publication of a reliable and practical assay for thyroid stimulating hormone was a
landmark.9 A normal range of <0.5-4.2 mU/l was established, based on measurements from 29 control subjects." Yet that's the "gold standard" that has been used for nearly 3 decades!!!! Yikes! So I find this entire hullabaloo about the T3 study being small, by the same people who regard 29 as acceptable a bit much. You can find that entire article at
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/320/7245/1332 if you haven't already read it.

One thing that I've wanted to bring up to you is, that when telling people about selenium please let them know that selenium can be toxic when you get too much of it and they should have their levels checked with a Doctor before adding a supplement. If it's working for you then great, you must need it! But "most" people in North American can get enough from their diets. For anyone that is interested in the story on it go to….
http://thyroid.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm

Hope I haven't offended, truly! And I'm sorry this is so long but I feel obligated to defend those of us that are helped by a different medication or any other treatment that works "for them" as I know people who have been helped through many other so called "natural methods" and the medical community is just now coming around to understand and admit that even things like prayer can work wonders that they aren't able to accomplish or understand.

I do wish you the best and sincerely hope that this new Endo of yours is one of the best thing that ever happened for you. Tina




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