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  finally REAL help for indents and scars too! :) (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   finally REAL help for indents and scars too! :) | Page views:
Yumi
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posted 10-10-2002 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hello everyone. quick intro. 24 year old asian male from asia. yellow-olive skin. suffering from SEVERE acne scarring. (to get an idea, see the pics of patients from the exoderm lift websites, that bad..) I don't intend to post so soon but i can't bear to hold the excitement down any longer.

I read about this guy who had needleabrasion to fix his scars on his face. This procedure is supposed to mimic the effects of laser and dermabrasion treatments without destroying the epidermis and has very little downtime.

So i thought i wanted to try it out myself since it sounded safe. Went to a local tatto artist and told him i wanted my face tattooed without ink. He thought i was crazy. The others i approached simply said they don't even do face tattoos. after much persuasion, he agreed to do the procedure but made me draft out a letter stating that he will not bear any responsibility should anything bad happens. Used no anesthetic but the pain was virtually non existent..

That was five days ago. from crimson red and swelling, now my face has turned pinkish. But what has really shocked me beyond all heavens is the absolute HUGE difference i see after only five miserable days!! and my scars are only expected to improve even more over time!!

The guy said he saw 70% improvement in his scars. I would say the same for me. Maybe 80% and i'm not exaggerating here.

I've tried the saline injections at home myself twice. Couldn't see the slightest difference. But to see a DRASTIC improvement after only five days from needleabrasion is nearly making me mad with utter disbelief!! for years i've tried to get rid of my scars to no avail. The 70% strength of Sage's 'at home glycolic peels' did nothing for me too. And to think the solution, my solution to be more specific, lies in a painless procedure that lasted only an hour plus.

forgive the long post but i just had to let go. I'm not telling you guys to try this radical treatment without thinking cos nothing is risk free. But i just had to let you all know. bye..

[Hi Please do not name other forums or websites.
No free advertising, whether or not you benefit. Thanks!]

[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 10-10-2002).]

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Crzyakta
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posted 10-10-2002 09:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crzyakta     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so he just poked the needle at the scars? hmm... and it didnt hurt?? mine hurt like crzy wen i got it on my back...also any bleeding? how many scars did he do it on?

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Dillard02
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posted 10-10-2002 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dillard02     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Would this work on red marks, or just the pitted type scars? How much did it cost?

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crayon
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posted 10-10-2002 10:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for crayon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
wow Yumi, what a brave thing to do!! Tattoo-ing your face..does that really works?? Isn't it gonna hurt like hell! By the way, if you don't mind me asking, which part of Asia are you from?

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Yumi
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posted 10-10-2002 10:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i had depressed scars all over my face. There are hundreds of them, literally. Thay are very deep and of varying sizes. So he had to go through the whole face!
except the mouth and nose areas and some parts of the forehead.

the tattooist used a tattoo gun with five needles close together in a row. The gun went in and out of my skin, puncturing it at the rate of maybe a few hundred times per second. i'm telling you, the sound generated from the gun nearly made me faint in fear. however, the pain was surprisingly minimal. i won't call it pain actually, just slight discomfort.

there was bellding of course, which stopped after ten minutes or so. i drove back soon after and even had the chance to meet a friend on the way to chat and show him my bloody face. Hehe...
i don't really care how it works but the theory is that the needling will help break free damaged collagen at the base of the scar allowing it to rise upon healing. Skin becomes thicker and denser, unlike from dermabrasion, laser etc.
anyway, still can't believe that it's low cost and results can be seen super fast. Thinking back all these years i've struggled, i really felt cheated that i get to know about this only now.

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p
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posted 10-10-2002 10:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for p     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey guys please before any of u go and rush out and do this. After reading this message I can tell that all Yumi did was get a subsicion and didnt even know it. Ive had subsicion and what Yumi is describing is true only until ur face heals. When you get a subsicion all the scars you have are "gone" because of the swelling of the skin because you were just poked with a needle. Yumi please wait at least another 2 weeks and then tell us if you still have this great improvement. I hope it is true but I am sorry to say that I really doubt it. Now I hope you dont get offended Yumi this is just my outlook on ur situation and I am glad u shared your experience. So guys please be careful and dont run out and poke your faces with needles. As for my results with the subsicion they were minimal once the swelling subsided. About 5-10% I would say. Well hope that helps some people Im tired of being a lurker but its so hard to remember that password. lol. I am doing the saline injections too and I am using this neutrogena cream that i think is helping. So any questions feel free to ask me.
P

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Yumi
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posted 10-10-2002 11:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
p, can you tell me how subsicion is done? is it possible that the tattooist subscised a hundred acne scars on my face within the span of one and a half hours?
the procedure which i went through is very 'light' which is why the swellings gone down to zero after the third day or so. Now my face just looks like i had a sunburn. but my face don't feel hot or something. just a little tight.
anyway, those interested can do a search on 'skin needling' to find out more. This procedure, used for skin rejuvenation purposes is extremely new. only two years i think..

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p
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posted 10-10-2002 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for p     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is very possible he subsiced that many scars in that amount of time. When i went to have subsicion it took no more than 15 minutes. Im not trying to argue with you I hope it is true taht you have that much improvement and if it its true i probably would do this procedure myself. Im just saying wait a couple of weeks and then tell us how it went thats all. Im just trying to let other know to be cautious because i know how i was all excited if someone said that something had worked i would think about doing it. Im just trying to make sure everyone sees everyones opinion and then make a decision for themselves. Sorry if i offended you Yumi. We are all in the same boat lets not argue.
thanks
P

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Yumi
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posted 10-10-2002 11:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
don't worry p. Not offended or anything. I'm a skeptic myself. it took me a while to let the whole saline injection idea sink in too and was sorely disappointed by the results. i mean, after the swelling's gone down, my scars returned to normal. i was so disgusted. Same story with Elicina cream and glycolic peels...

but the thing is, the tattooist simply does what he always does. He tattooes my whole face except without using ink. oh well, what do i know.. anyway p, can you read up on the skin needling thing and tell me how it's similar to subsicion? Then i won't keep my hopes up for the coming weeks already... thanks..

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beale24
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posted 10-11-2002 02:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for beale24     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
what a brave thing to do! but I can totally understand your motivation. Oh what I would do for clear and scarless skin!! I hope this works for you. Please keep us posted

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rotten apple
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posted 10-12-2002 12:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rotten apple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
this seems interesting....

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joginny
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posted 10-13-2002 01:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for joginny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yumi, can you please post an update...I checked into skin needling and I am very interested in your results.

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Yumi
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posted 10-13-2002 02:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quick update. still looking good. still ecstatic. nowhere near flawless but all the scars have softened tremendously (all hundred odd of them). can only provide accurate evaluation after two full weeks like p said. that'll be in a week's time. need to get rid of the pinkness to get the real picture...

this procedure need to be repeated serially, maybe one or two more times for me to look like the before/after pics found on those exoderm websites. peace out...

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Crzyakta
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posted 10-13-2002 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crzyakta     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
try using neosporin on the healings scars as well, also try taking vitamin c in high dosage for about a month

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Yumi
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posted 10-14-2002 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yup, been using vit c serum on the scars and also taking 2-3 grams vit c with gotu kola like 'chill' suggested on the other board; to help fill in the scars. Trust me, there is a REAL unimaginary difference. as far as i'm concerned, the results are FAR more superior to the saline injections and face brushing that i've tried.

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aa
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posted 10-14-2002 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yumi-did you have any pitting type scars that were improved by this tattoo thing?
Are you going to do it again for further improvement?
Can you feel the "tattoo" under your skin? I know you didn't really get a tattoo but sometimes one can feel the tattoo after its done.

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Crzyakta
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posted 10-15-2002 12:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crzyakta     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yumi, so glad for you! ok but to get some things straight, how did the tattooist know to use the 'inline 5 needle' gun? wen i got mine done it was on my back, so i didnt see anything really (he did show me the needle when he was opening/unpacking it, but it just looked a needle) Was this his/her first time tattooing a face without ink for acne scarring purpose? and how did you approach him/her to do it? thanks!

also how long would he rest the needle in a specific scar? like did he just tap it there, or did he work it into the scar a bit?

[This message has been edited by Crzyakta (edited 10-15-2002).]

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Yumi
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posted 10-15-2002 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
aa, all my depressed scars have become shallower, softened a lot and shrunk in size. with virtually no pain, little downtime, low,low cost and dramatic improvements i could see by day 5, what else can i ask for? so, yes, i will do it one or two more times because all my scars were really deep!

don't really understand your 'feel the tattoo' question. it's technically needles poking your face that's all..

crzyakta, i printed out the skin needling info from the web and showed it to the tattooist. the info explained that the doctor who pioneered this procedure used multiple needles, the ones used for coloring and shading of tattoos.

he was very apprhensive all the way and like i said earlier, made me draft out a letter stating that he'll not be responsible in the outcome of the procedure. he didn't seem to believe tattooing improves the scarring. But he was reaaly nice and friendly though.

he asked if i had approached any doctors and i said no, they would think i'm crazy, and he said 'Duh?!'

can't really explain how he worked through my scars and the closest description i can think of right now is, i guess, he would imagine my face to be a canvans that he painted on, but uses the machine instead of a brush. basically he made a pass over the face slowly.

hope this helps.. i'm still in heaven now...

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aa
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posted 10-15-2002 12:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks Yumi for the update. What I meant by "feel the tatto" is that sometimes after someone gets a tattoo you can somewhat feel the design under the skin-like reading brail. You only got one pass over the entire skin? How did he know where he had already been and how deep did he go?

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p
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posted 10-15-2002 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for p     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Yumi sorry i took so long to reply im in college an its been exam time. Anyway I looked up info on the procedure and it seems its like subsicion but not quite. In subsicion the doctor pokes u with a needle and moves it in a circular motion to try to break up the tissue there so new collagen can form. But this procedure seems to just poke u and then leave the scar without any further movement maybe this is the reason for less down time. Sorry i was so negative about the procedure before but i never heard anything about it till now.
When i had subsicion i didnt see the complete results after 3 to 4 weeks. When all the swelling and bruising left. Please after this time amount of time has elapsed let us know of ur progress and ur results.
Also i have a question for u. You said u were using vitamin C serum. What kind did u use and how much did it cost. I heard about cellex c being good but its kinda expensive. How much improvement did u see with the serum because if u saw a good amount i will definitely try it.
Thanks again Yumi and best of luck

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Yumi
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posted 10-16-2002 05:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
aa, he made a pass over the whole face so instead of feeling just pertruded outlines of a tattoo, my face became crimson red and swelled up like i had edema (water retention).

he knows he made a pass at a particular portion of the face cos that portion will be unmistakably red and bleeding.

how deep did he go? i just told him to go as deep as he would doing a normal tattoo.

p, i'm using this 12% vit c serum under the brand of 'formula c-23', an australian brand..
it costs about aust$50 only i think, can't really remember. in us$ that should be really cheap.
the serum helps to visibly tighten up the areas that i apply on, the treated area.

anyway, this tattoo treatment is so 'gentle' that i incorporated 15% AHA lotion on my face on top of the serum with minimal discomfort, few days back, to accelerate healing. now my face is really dry and falky. once that phase's over, i guess i'll fully recover.. good luck for your exams p...

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joginny
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posted 10-18-2002 12:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for joginny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any more progress? Yumi, can you post any updates for us? thanks.

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Yumi
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posted 10-18-2002 05:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
progress? not much. pinkness fading still. improvement still there. in fact, it'll improve in the coming weeks, just like from cooltouch and the likes.

now with a little make up (i'm no faggot, just need to cover the pinkness), i get compliments like 'your face looks so clean' and 'you're so handsome'.. go figure.. never got them before...

the results i see is SERIOUS. who can say their depressions have improved dramatically in a week? and it's supposed to get even better and still is..

one last thing.. pls don't kill me but i'm a heavy smoker. and the results still shows obviously. imagine for non smokers..

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Yumi
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posted 10-19-2002 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
anyway the procedure may not be suitable for people of indian descent or of other color due to risk of hyperpigmentation. i did it anyway, even though i'm yellow-olive skinned.

[This message has been edited by moderator2 (edited 10-21-2002).]

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Crzyakta
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posted 10-20-2002 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crzyakta     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thanks for the info!

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leopolda
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posted 10-20-2002 11:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for leopolda     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yumi--

I'm very happy to hear about the good effects you are having from this tatooing thing. I'm also not the type to jump down everyone's throats about their choice of words--not the PC police. But did you really just say "faggot?" Even for someone like me, who is pretty on the "live and let live" model, that's pretty offensive. I don't want to distract from this thread and the good work that you are doing here, but could you please just watch it a bit when it comes to the derogatory slurs? Thanks, and I wish you luck in your pursuit of clear skin.

leo

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Yumi
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posted 10-21-2002 01:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
alright, sorry leo and those offended, shouldn't have used the 'f' word insensitively.

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Crzyakta
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posted 10-21-2002 04:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Crzyakta     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
hyperpigmentation is only temporary at most...they would all heal within 3-4 weeks

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hazeldjm
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posted 10-25-2002 01:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hazeldjm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yumi, are you in nyc? Is this tatoo guy in nyc?

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Yumi
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posted 10-25-2002 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
haha, i live in south east asia.. not the states..

well it's exactly three weeks since i had my 'needle work' done and it looks like i won't be visiting my tattooist anytime soon cos the pinkness is still there. seems that it'll take a full month to recover to my original skin color. this is a quite a drawback for me cos i need to go to school without looking blotchy-skinned! but the results is well worth it..

as p mentioned earlier, i was too quick to post. the improvement was better initially, went down a little but has now fully stabilised. what can i say about the improvemnet? overall, about 40%-50%. ice pick scars seemed to be least responsive while others have filled up considerably, some to the point where they've became so shallow that i'm under the impression that i don't have them. i take comfort in the fact that more improvement will be seen up to approximately a year or even more..

one thing i need to mention is that the tattooist didn't really stretch/pull my skin as he tattooed it. the skin is supposed to be pulled for better results. i read that somewhere. if only i read that earlier..

anyway, this reminds me. those doing the saline injections also need to stretch and make your skin taut before you actually inject the solution into/under your scar. supposedly, when you inject under very taut skin, thre'll be a greater ripping apart/searing effect between the underlying tissue and the scar, thus freeing up more of the 'tied-down' scar.

of course this causes more damage underneath which will precisely be the reason why the scars will heal better. although swelling will last longer. hope that make sense.

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joginny
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posted 10-26-2002 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for joginny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Glad to hear an update from you Yumi, sorry to hear that your results weren't as good as previously thought. I am most interested in your results with your ice pick scars? Did you experience any improvement at all? Would you / will you do it again?

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ma
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posted 11-01-2002 02:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ma     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Skin needling also goes by this name "M.C.A". Perminent makeup studios have been using this technique for a couple of years now, mostly for treating facelift scars and only recently started to use it on acne scars. For anyone wanting to do it or just more info, try looking for a perminent makeup studio. I found a local studio that does M.C.A. and it
only costs $150 or so for a session. Might cost more for a full face.
I will be trying it in january.

Thanks for the postings Yumi.

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acnecure
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posted 11-02-2002 02:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for acnecure     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds very interesting. What does the "M.C.A."
stand for?

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Yumi
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posted 11-02-2002 06:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
joginny, i would definitely do it again given the chance. BUT....!!! i can't now cos that'll mean at least a week of staying at home and i can't afford to do that at the moment. i might do one in mid december though.

this needlework doesn't seem to do much for my ice pick scars. most improved are the saucer type ones, regardless of depth. because i have lots of these type of scars on my cheeks, my face now looks a lot smoother and even looking, like a lifting effect.

week in week out, i see greater improvements. there are several websites that provide covering details about this new exciting procedure but i'm not allowed to point them out. it's a real shame the moderators think i'm trying to advertise for these sites, whether i benefit from it or not.

it's so frustrating cos these sites provide lots of valuable, helpful info to suffering acne scarred people; which is too lengthy for me to reproduce them in my own words here. well.. not my loss. good day..

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michael123456uk
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posted 11-02-2002 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for michael123456uk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
couldnt the same effect be achieved by using clean finger nails if u havent bitten them off with the stress of acne. by gently tapping the skin in one area to test. just a thought

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MayaR
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posted 11-09-2002 01:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MayaR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yumi -do you have an update for us?????

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Yumi
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posted 11-10-2002 04:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
a bit of bad news. i scrubbed my temples with st. ives apricot scrub and the indentations there sunk back right in! to the same depth before my needling.

when i realized that, i suddenly remembered what a beautican told me from several years back. whenever you go for a treatment that stimulates collagen growth, (eg. needling, subcision, laser etc etc) never handle that part of the skin harshly. reason being, the new tissue that's forming is extremely fragile and delicate, more so that normal tissue. aggressive handling will retard progress. please don't repeat my stupidity everyone..

anyway, i'm going for another needling session with my tattoist in mid or december end. this time round i'll try not to keep those areas moist with vaseline or anything. i'll try to keep the skin as dry as possible so that a huge scab will form. then when it's time, hopefully the scab will peel by itself and new pink, levelled skin will be revealed below.

is that a good idea?

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MayaR
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posted 11-10-2002 05:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MayaR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm dissapointed to hear your news. I had an email from Des Fernandes (a needling surgeon) and he said it is best to apply vit C and A on the skin for 3 weeks before and after treatment (he recommended the brand Proactive - by Environ) but you can probably get something similar in your store.

I self experimented around 2 days ago (took a needle to my forehead and worked on around 20 smallish indents - it's a bit sore now, it seems that some are smaller, but It really is too early to judge.

Thanks for your update - please keep posting.

Thanks

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Yumi
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posted 11-16-2002 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Yumi     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
just had my faced needled again by my tattooist a couple of hours ago. one month ahead of schedule. will post progress soon..

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MayaR
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posted 11-17-2002 01:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MayaR     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey YUMI - good luck - you know, we all want you to succeed!

Please can you post how you feel/look and what you do from day-to-day? (Washing/ointments etc..)

Thanks

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