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 ACCUTANE-FOOD-INSULIN CONNECTION (Page 1)
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SweetJade1 Veteran  Posts: 493 |
posted 06-03-2003 01:05 AM
  
(below are .gov links and one .edu that fall within the guidelines) OK, so we've ALL heard of the age old myth about chocolate and greasy foods, right? Well, did you notice how OLD those studies were? They were done back in the 1960s and 1970s and some of them were quite flawed. So zoom into the 2000s, and mabe a bit in the late 90s, and you will see the Acne-Food connection from an entirely DIFFERENT angle! More recent studies out there connect increased Insulin levels to increased DHT, Testosterone, Androgen levels. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=10908163&dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=11117667&dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=10950157&dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ uids=8854583&dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=12396556&dopt=Abstract
That various types of drugs (anti-androgen, insulin sensitizers, etc) and/or a low carbohydrate diet in a ratio similar to: 30% Carb, 45% Protein, & 25% Oils have been shown to reduce the 5-Alpha Reductase enzyme neccssary in converting Testosterone into DHT (super androgen). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=10856473&dopt=Abstract
Of course, what you've all been waiting for.... 13-Cis Retinoic Acid (isotretinion or... Accutane) reduces Insulin Sensitivity, acts as an anti-androgen on the sebaceous glands and ceases the conversion of testosterone into DHT!!!! Yes, Roche Laboratories knows all about this, but unfortunately, these are usually temporary effects lasting only during treatment. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=11747145&dopt=Abstract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_ uids=9298137&dopt=Abstract What does ALL of this mean to an acne sufferer? Well, what causes acne again? Oil, dead skin cells, and inflammation....is that what the defination is? OK and what causes our bodies to do the above??? Usually no matter what the culprit, is it NOT DUE TO HORMONES????? Before one scoffs and quickly dismisses the evidence, they should really learn the mechanisms of the way food & nutrients interact with the human body first. Thankfully, more scientists and doctors are starting to pay attention! Unfortunately, some of them did keep the "secret" to themselves....money money money??? This is all information I've gotten from various reputable places, including http://www.pubmed.gov and below are further articles that explain something that I found rather interesting. While I believe that everyone has varying degrees of sensitivity (foods, cosmetics,etc), which explains WHY different foods, or certain amounts, are aggrevating to some people and not others, maybe this will help more of you out. At the very least, it should dispel the latest "myth"(denial) that this is all psychosomatic or a placebo effect. Those of us who've actually gone the dietary route know better. Not to mention, it did other postive things for us that we certainly were NOT expecting. =)
Sigh...there you have it. Outside of environmental causes, bad skincare or an allergy, I have not found any other reason as to why we get acne. Obviously it's a defect and it may indeed be on a CYP450 gene, but obviously not all of us have the same defect. So until we can figure out which gene and which defect it is for each of us, some of you that have "done it all", may want to try some other internal approach, such as detoxfying your liver or changing your diet. [This message has been edited by SweetJade1 (edited 06-03-2003).] IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-03-2003 01:33 AM
Of course I understand that some people won't want to change their diets, that's exactly why the pharmaceutical industry's sales are on the rise. A pill for every problem, eh ;-) I can work with that, after all if topical methods don't seem to be enough, sometimes all one needs is a round of accutane or a "maintenance dose" to increase insulin sensitivity. While other's go through 4 rounds of this stuff and they are still never "cured." Others of us have found great success in taking Birth Controls, Anti-Androgens, other Insulin Sensitizing Drugs and Anti-Inflammatories. Yet sometimes a pill is NOT enough! I myself and others were forced to utilize a combination of drugs and/or alternative treatments (herbs, vitamins, diet, etc), while others went the purely diet route. So thenwhy is it that Accutane managed to cure some people when the results say that the effects last only during usage??? Perhaps it permanently shrank your sabaceous glands or maybe your hormonal levels finally balanced out (end of puberty). To sum up an article I read, nothing new by the way, from the Archives of Dermatology , it said that teenage acne, is due to natural Insulin Resistance. That when teenagers grow their tissues must become insulin resistance to do so. Therefore when one eats a high glycemic food, which is generally the staples of an American diet, it sends our bodies into a hormonal domino effect. The sugars shoots our Insulin levels up and increases our IGF-1 which increases testosterone in our system. This of course results in excess production of sebum, clogging our pores and triggering acne. Lovely, isn't it? Obviously, we don't all respond the same to our hormones. Some people's bodies do other things in response to the hormones that give us acne. Some people actually have NORMAL hormonal levels, but their receptors are extra sensitive to certain hormones. Whereas, some of us have HIGHER than normal hormones and/or extra sensitive receptors and our bodies respond accordingly. Perhaps that is why certain diets work better for certain cases. Indeed, that could be why people have gone on diets like a Low Fat diet (fat stores hormones) or a Low Carb - No Grain diet (increases insulin sensitivity) and found that their acne improved, if not cleared 100%! While others discovered that all they needed were some enzymes or liver cleanses and things were perfect for them. =) I believe that acne can be due to a combination of Environmental(dioxin, toxins, dirty telephones, etc), External (bad skincare, haircare, etc), and/or Internal factors. For me personally, my formula was Environmental-5%, External-15%, and Internal-80%. Since this is already so long, I'll just go over one way you could go about discovering if yours is mainly internal: 1. If your problems persist, your BEST bet is to go to a doctor. b. If you have some idea as to what the problem is than seeing a specialist, such as an Endocrinologist, Gastroenterologist, Allergist, or Naturopath would be to your advantage. 2. You need to find out if you have an allergy, intolerance, a hormonal imbalance, or some nutrient defiency by having the appropriate tests run. Sometimes the tiniest thing really can make that much of a difference. 3. Based on those results you'll be prescribed maybe Accutane, Birth Control, an Anti-Androgen, or some other specific drug. Or maybe you'll be advised to take a certain vitamin or to change your diet. 4. There's usually more than one way to treat a problem, so if the above fails, you should try a different doctor, formulation or technique. b. The same should be asked of herbs. These have medicinal properties and as such, you should pick an herb that will do what you need it to do, based on your [u]specific[/u] internal problem. For example, find an herb that has the same suggested use as the prescription drug your doctor put you on and see if it will help or if you can replace the drug with it. c. Diet (headache anyone?) There are between 30 - 50 special diets out there and if we included our own unique diets, the list would be even longer. NOT all of these are designed to cure acne, but SOME of them have proven to be far more successful than anything else! Once again this is very much so depends on how YOUR body works, what it needs, and what your specific internal problem is. The most successful diets that I'm aware of are: Non-Processed/Refined Diet-- General Health, Insulin-Hormonal Imbalance Organic/Whole Foods Diet--General Health, Allergies, Intolerances, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities Vegetarian/Vegan Diet--General Health, Intolerances, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities Low Fat Diet- General Health, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities Low Carbohydrate/Sugar Diet--General Health, Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance Mucous Free Diet-- Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance Gluten-Free Diet--Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Neurological problems, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance No Grain Diet-- Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Neurological problems, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance Paleolithic Diet--General Health, Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance, Neurological Problems, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities "Evil" Lectin Free Diet--Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Neurological problems, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance Elimination Diet--(Ex: Wheat, Diary, Iodine, Spicy Foods, MSG, Pork, etc) Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities These are just generalized catagories, but there are PLENTY of books or websites, that use the above in some sort of dietary program. You just have to figure out which applies to you and what program fits your lifestyle and is the [u]most effective[/u] for you. Yes, sometimes that does requres a bit of "trial and error", so just because one diet didn't work for you, it doesn't mean that NONE of them will. 5. Are there any specific foods or drinks you find that you consume the most? 9. Have you tried other alternative methods such as
[This message has been edited by SweetJade1 (edited 06-03-2003).] IP: Logged |
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justlikeyou Member  Posts: 51 |
posted 06-03-2003 02:56 AM
wow...thats awesome information...acne IS caused by what we eat..most people disagree with this because they see someone with clear skin eating the same foods as them so they just right off the idea of food being the culprit.I know that the acne I have is caused by how my body is processing what I eat.Ive gone to see a naturopath and he has prescribed me herbal medicines that will DETOXIFY MY LIVER..this is key.He laughs at what dermatologists prescribe to patients...I told him that my doctor had suggested accutane for me and he told me (well,more like yelled it!) "STAY AWAY FROM ACCUTANE!!,THE SIDE EFFECTS AND LONG TERM EFFECTS ARE DEVESTATING TO ONES BODY,THIS DRUG SHOULD BE TAKEN OFF THE MARKET" I totally agree with him on this one.Anyways..he told me to stay away from breads,refined foods,dairy and pretty much all the good stuff (lol) Im going to give it a try though because what he says makes sense.I suggest to everyone to make and appointement with a naturopth and have a long conversation with him about your liver,detoxification and food in relationship to acne. IP: Logged |
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Jonesy Senior Member Posts: 132 |
posted 06-03-2003 06:59 AM
Without being funny or anything, is there any chance you could condense that down into a list of things which dont need a translator to decipher?! Looks to be interesting stuff, if someone could summarise the gist of it as unfortunately I'm not blessed with the time to trawl through it all, cheers. IP: Logged |
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plymouth Senior Veteran Posts: 631 |
posted 06-03-2003 08:09 AM
quote: Acne is related to hormones. Diet affects your hormones. IP: Logged |
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Jonesy Senior Member Posts: 132 |
posted 06-03-2003 12:36 PM
And what things should we be avoiding/eating? Cheers. IP: Logged |
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acneman Senior Member Posts: 86 |
posted 06-03-2003 01:56 PM
Hey SweetJade1 I have a question for you. Do you think consuming about 525 g of complex carbs (not simple or refined) could aggravate acne? I weigh 175 lbs. I mean, I have to consume that many because I am a bodybuilder and I'm currently bulking up. I know that complex carbs do not spike up insulin levels, pretty much they keep them at a constant level. I eat no dairy, no sugar, my diet consists basically of eggs, chicken, yams, oatmeal, whey protein, and lots of water. I eat a lot and I mean A LOT of oatmeal (around 7 cups a day) and want to know if I'm allergic to grains. How do I do that? IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-03-2003 02:30 PM
Jonesy, I am not a doctor, nor a nutritionist, but the more I learn, the more likely I am to choose that as my graduate field. Therefore, I honestly don't know what YOU should do, for some it's "trial and error". Like Plymouth said "Diet affects hormones", but NOT everyone will be negatively affected by their hormones. Since we all have varying degrees of sensitivity, that probably explains why one person only has to avoid 1 food item and others an entire group of food. LOL, I understand about my post being long and a teeny bit scientific, but I needed proof to back up what I'm saying. Otherwise, how many of you would believe me? How many of you would still be dismissing the whole concept? Granted I KNOW that some of you WILL still dismiss this, but you can no longer say that you weren't aware of the truth. I'm studying biology and it's absolutely fascinating to hear about all these different hormones, proteins, and all the different pathways, but I'm not too found of big technical words either, so this is the way my brain sees the above problem: You eat something, lets say a SANDWHICH (meat, vegetables, grain bread), and it enters your digestive system where it's broken down. Now, depending on it's glycemic value, a certain amount of glucose will be available for your body's energy needs. This prescence of glucose will cause your pancreas to produce insulin to enhance glucose utilization and sometimes it will be a HUGE amount of insulin! Now, if your body (cells, tissues) doesn't need the insulin, it will be converted into glycogen and fat for storage in your liver, skeletal muscle, adipose tissue, and skin. Now, if your liver can NOT store the glycogen & fat and your cells & tissues will not accept the glucose then you have a problem. This is known as Insulin Resistance, which can later lead to Type I Diabetes (don't make enough or ANY insulin), Type II Diabetes (unable to use the insulin you do make), Heart Disease (due to high LDL cholesterol levels, free fatty acids), Hypertension, Dyslipidemia (lipid imbalance in blood stream), Obesity etc. all prevalant in most Western societies. So anyway, IR occurs because your cells are either too full of glucose or they don't RECOGNIZE the insulin you do have. As a result, you not only have all this extra insulin, but glucose, free fatty acids & amino acids floating around in your blood stream with no where to go.... Now, some of us do not have the same gene defects (read middle of article on CYP450 for specifics). Therefore the PATHWAY to this next part, is different for all of us depending on what our defect, or in other words, hormonal disorder is. Examples of hormonal disorders with acne as a symptom are Hypothyroidism, Hyperadrenalism, Insulin Resistance, Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS)-Syndrome X, Hyperandrogenism, Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH), Hypercortisolism - Cushings Syndrome, etc. So depending on the pathway, this extra or free insulin is going to cause your Adrenal Glands and Ovaries OR Testes to produce Steriod Hormones. I'm not going to list them all for you, listed some of them on various posts ;-) but these hormones in excess or in deficiency create your...hormonal imbalance. Obviously if it's in excess you know why you have the problem, but what about if you are deficient in a hormone (vitamin, enzyme, etc) right? What happens is that your body is looking for this hormone and if it can't find it, and is capable of making it, will produce MORE. At least it thinks it's producing more, but sometimes it's unable to produce the hormone and as a result, OTHER hormones get overproduced in the process. The same thing applies to IR, if your cells don't recognize the presence of insulin, then your body keeps making more insulin, "thinking" that you don't have enough in your system. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter how much your body produces or tries to produce of a hormone, because there is a problem in the pathway that makes this mechanism work perfectly. Therefore, until the defective pathway is FIXED, the viscious cycle will continue...or get worse (burnout, tumors, cancer). A possible side effect to this would be testosterone conversion into DHT (super androgen) in your blood stream and in your sebaceous glands & hair follicles. Which would increase your production of sebum, skin cell proliferation, inflammation, etc. and that's how some of us get acne. Any questions? ;-) Of course if someone can explain it better PLEASE do so. Otherwise, that explains the diet connection. If you choose to change your diet, the goal is NOT to eliminate ALL forms of sugar. It's impossible to eliminate all forms of sugar anyway, but you only want to permantly avoid enough to get your hormones in balance again. Yes, there are various precription drugs that will balance your hormones, but they are not always effective and some even suggest dietary changes along with them. In fact, it's better to change your diet and take less medicine, then it is to take the medicine alone, at least that's what I personally discovered and I'm sure there are studies out there that prove this. Of course, there are those that are clear 100% through alternative treatments alone, like diet or liver detoxes. =) [This message has been edited by SweetJade1 (edited 06-04-2003).] IP: Logged |
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bunny9987 Senior Member Posts: 141 |
posted 06-03-2003 02:51 PM
hey Justlikeyou i looked up naturopath in the yellowpages,couldn't find it. is it called something else?? thanks IP: Logged |
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bunny9987 Senior Member Posts: 141 |
posted 06-03-2003 03:04 PM
hey jade, I have a question, you might be able to answer it. i am a 25 year old female. I started to develop acne when i was 14. The kind i had was the big red bumps under the skin, not sure what they are called. I have been on tetracycline thru the years too.never worked. My diet wasn't good, in highschool and college i partied a lot. I NEVER ate fruit and veggies. I bascially ate pizza, french fries, fried foods, processed canned foods, foods made from a box, ex hamburger helper, mac&cheese. taco bell. I drank a lot of beer, hehe, i stayed thin, because so i ate like this, i really only ate about twice a day. but i would have a huge meal, and not be hungry for hours.Even after college, I ate pretty bad, happy hors, i would eat the whole plate of nachos, i am only 125lbs, so i figured its ok, BUT my face has always been horrible. Since i was 14 it has NEVER been clear, (well i did use proactiv, and it did clear me up nicely for a year and half) so last month i decided maybe diet has to do with my face. I detoxed about 2 weeks ago, and i errupted! So do you know or does anyone else know, do you think if i eat fruits and veggies, and overall healthy foods, will it clear me up! in the last few weeks i have lost 5lbs, and i now go to the *bathroom* everyday, whereas before my diet change i would go every 2-3 days. thanks all for listening...i am still mending from the erruption, so i can't tell if my face is clearing yet..... IP: Logged |
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bunny9987 Senior Member Posts: 141 |
posted 06-03-2003 03:07 PM
oh i forgot to say i drink water all day now, before I NEVER drank water, thanks again.... IP: Logged |
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iwannacookie Member Posts: 61 |
posted 06-03-2003 03:19 PM
thanks for the info! i have changed from a diet filled w/junk food to a diet filled with organic, less processed foods and have seen the difference. is there evidence that americans suffer from more acne than people of other nations? i wouldn't be surprised because the typical diet here is pretty terrible. so many artificial ingredients and questionable gmos! i wish we had higher standards for what we consume. IP: Logged |
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Scarred for Life Member Posts: 35 |
posted 06-03-2003 03:30 PM
That various types of drugs (anti-androgen, insulin sensitizers, etc) and/or a low carbohydrate diet in a ratio similar to: 30% Carb, 45% Protein, & 25% Oils have been shown to reduce the 5-Alpha Reductase enzyme neccssary in converting Testosterone into DHT (super androgen). http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list _uids=10856473&dopt=Abstract The link you posted says NOTHING about a low carb diet decreasing DHT. It is simply a study of metformin, a diabetes drug, and its effects on hyperandrogenism. IP: Logged |
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amb1 Senior Member Posts: 132 |
posted 06-03-2003 06:11 PM
Wow, you were busy! Some of the stuff I do: -low-carb and the list goes on... ....and I'm now on Accutane because I still looked terrible. When monitored correctly, it is very effective. But I do agree that the whole derm/pharmaceutical/research thing can be pretty shady... IP: Logged |
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boardguy16 Member Posts: 45 |
posted 06-03-2003 07:04 PM
omg...i cannot stress enough how much diet affects acne. i used to eat fatty foods all day long. i never touched so much as an apple. i ate so much candy and junk food. On top of that, i NEVER drank water. i always drank pop or some other unhealthy drink instead. i had so much acne. i couldnt stand going to school. A couple weeks ago, somebody on this site posted this link: http://www.thiele.fptoday.com/ta/acnehome.htm i was excited to try it because i had never thought much about how my diet could be giving me my acne. so i gave it a try, and holy shiznit, it worked. I started drinking around 20 glasses of water a day (i was obsessed), and cut out ALL sugary foods out of my diet, cost most of the grains out (your body needs SOME grains), and started eating other healthy foods in general. I also FORCED myself to stop picking. It was hard, but it can be done. It was a miracle for my face. aside from red marks from pimples past, which will go away with time, i do not have a single pimple on my face! I have read a lot of stories that relate this to under-developed tribes in south america and such. researchers found practically ALL of the people living there acne free. The tribes lived on their own food, they hunted and grew food for themselves. Once they were introduced to the western diet, researchers saw acne start to appear among them. IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-03-2003 08:02 PM
WOW, so glad to hear all of these positive stories I was kinda afraid someone might wanna yell at me ;-) Scarred for Life, IP: Logged |
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Scarred for Life Member Posts: 35 |
posted 06-03-2003 08:27 PM
If you were trying to prove that high fat/protien diet can lower DHT, then follow this link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2392062&dopt=Abstract That is only for men, though. Insulin resistance as a cause of acne makes sense, since nearly everyone has insulin resistance during puberty, which is also the time when nearly everyone experiences acne. Here's the link http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11600557&dopt=Abstract So perhaps some of us never regain insulin sensitivity and our hormones go out of wack. Of course, there are many compounding factors. For example, some people's sebum does not seem to form keratin plugs, which are necessary for bacteria to feed on and cause acne. It is a very complex disease. However, it is in everyone's best interest, according to the latest research, to give up refined sugars and processed food... not just for acne, but for general health. Eat plenty of fruits and veggies, organic meats, beans, and you'll be fine. IP: Logged |
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boardguy16 Member Posts: 45 |
posted 06-03-2003 09:00 PM
Heres a link (WedMB has a very similar article, but it couldnt be displayed on my computer  )(http://www.medboo.com/eng/message/1021212257.htm) "Loren Cordain, professor of health and exercise science at Colorado State University, and colleagues analyzed more than 1,300 Kitivan Islanders of Papua New Guinea and the Ache hunter-gatherers of Paraguay. Their diet consists mainly of fruit, fish and tubers. The scientists found a significant difference in acne rates among those groups and modern Western societies. Over the course of the study, no case of active acne was observed in either Kitivan Islanders or Ache hunter-gatherers." IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-03-2003 09:02 PM
Acneman, Hey you are very familar to me, but I don't remember what kind of progress you've had. How is your skin now? Have you noticed any improvements??? For those that are confused about Carbohydrates, here ya go: COMPLEX CARBOHYDRATES - Yet, right now there is an unofficial debate going on and it has to deal with low carbing and whether you should follow the No Grains route vs. following the Glycemic Index. On some low carb diets, you are allowed to eat those that contain Fiber. This is because fiber helps balance insulin levels such that these foods are actually supposed to offset any increases in insulin. To further suggest this, I came across an article that said we should eat something more along the lines of: 15% unrefined fat, 15% unrefined protein, & 70% unrefined carbohydrates. Sadly enough, depending on your goal and sensitivity level, continually consuming some of these foods doesn't work for everyone. So unfortunately, I really don't know the "correct" answer, but I bet if we had some dietary clinical trials, we could find out ;-) Since that may not happen anytime soon, you can always try eliminating the grains. What complex carbs are you eating? What grains are you eating besides oatmeal? Yet, since you are a body builder, I understand how hard it is to keep wieght on when you eliminate grains, especially when you don't eat enough to replace them, so maybe you can try going Gluten Free (GF). To test either of these out, you just need to avoid eating them 100% for 2 - 4 weeks. You may not clear immediately though, so the longer you avoid them, the better a chance you are giving yourself of finding out if they could be your culprit. In fact, I know of some body builders that managed to improve their acne either through GF diet or a traditional low carb diet by utilizing protein & oils to offset the insulin spikes. I believe it's something like, eating your protein first and then eating your carbs & oils together. Indeed there MAY be a trade off here with diet, 100% clear or 90% & the wieght you want to be. If you don't want medicine, maybe some other supplements might help if this doesn't. HTH
[This message has been edited by SweetJade1 (edited 06-05-2003).] IP: Logged |
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boardguy16 Member Posts: 45 |
posted 06-03-2003 09:04 PM
Also, scarred for life, are you saying fatty foods can actually help with acne?  i thought it was good to avoid fats like saturated fat. IP: Logged |
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acneman Senior Member Posts: 86 |
posted 06-03-2003 09:28 PM
SweetJade1 thanks for your reply. The reason why I was thinking the oatmeal was breaking me out (I have mild to moderate acne) was because I was breaking out a little bit along my right jawline and neck. However, this might be due to the fact that I've been doing some drinking (alcohol) during the weekends and also I just stopped eating dairy (2-3 weeks ago), and I know dairy was breaking me out. Oatmeal is the only grain I eat. What I'll do is that I will keep eating my oatmeal for one more week and I will not drink this coming weekend. If my current breakout gets worse then it probably is related to grain consumption. I will let you know what will happen in a week. Ok? I will post my reply in this thread in a week's time. Wish me luck. [This message has been edited by acneman (edited 06-03-2003).] IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-03-2003 10:31 PM
Scarred, Hey thanks for those extra links =) Boardguy, Amb1, IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-03-2003 10:40 PM
Bunny, Most of what you said I, and fellow acne suffers, have gone through. Right there, the tv dinners, canned food, fast food, and Grain Carbs weekly (pizza, pasta, etc) was mine and Board Guys life too! Since changing my diet, I do not WANT or CRAVE sugar. Practically everything dessert-like is too sweet for me and all I ever want to drink is WATER (who care's about 100% fruit juice) ;-) Unfortunately some people do break out from detoxing. It could depend on how toxic your body is or what type of formula you chose. The fact that you broke out badly during your detox considering that you were constipated doesn't surprise me. I've bumped into others with acne who noticed that they too were constipated or had stomach problems and were having a SINGLE bowel movement every 2 - 7 days. For everyone, NEWSFLASH: On average, we should all have one 2 - 3x a DAY! ;-) It's interesting that you never mentioned this to your doctor. I guess that's because you thought it was "normal", right? Well, some acne suffers did go to their doctors and were prescribed medicine that made them "regular" and as a result, this improved their skin. In case you are wondering these supplements have also helped to keep one regular: probiotics, fish oil, and fiber. Whereas, others decided to go the herbal supplement (burdock, milk thistle, etc) route or to do periodic detoxes to cleanse the body. Say, have you ever gone to an endocrinologist about your acne? I remember when mine told me to take Avandia and said that it would be to my advantage to also low carb. Since I wasn't a diabetic and I wasn't overwieght, quite the opposite, I couldn't figure out why low carbing would apply to me. I figured that by taking the avandia I would deal with any insulin issues I had....WRONG! Changing my diet, while I did lose 5lbs, was much more effective for me than taking that medication. 9 months ago, my lifestyle was the same as yours, yet I was avoiding soda and eating less and less candy as I got older. It wasn't enough, and until I greatly reduced my grain intake (BULK of my past diet), which is how I ended up dropping the majority of "fast food" etc, I never saw the correlation in myself. So definately fruits, vegetables and eating "healthy" will be good for you. =) [This message has been edited by SweetJade1 (edited 06-03-2003).] IP: Logged |
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blueeyedbia Senior Veteran Posts: 804 |
posted 06-04-2003 01:07 AM
GREAT INFO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't have time now, but tomorrow I am going to print it. I really hope people read and sift through this. I noticed you posted it on all the other boards too-you should be proud of all your research. You know a lot and are one of the better/knowlegdable out there with acne/food. THANKS!!!!! IP: Logged |
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Mandilyn Senior Member Posts: 130 |
posted 06-04-2003 02:01 AM
Yeah thanks for the info! but Im curious on what your eating for breakfast, lunch, and Dinner? How do you find foods to eat when you cutting out so much? What foods are u guys eating? IP: Logged |
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SanDiego Newbie Posts: 3 |
posted 06-04-2003 01:34 PM
Hi AcneMan and SweetJade1, I have also been into bodybuilding for about 2 years now, and have always followed a very strict diet eating only low-GI carbs and lean protein sources (whey/casein/chicken/egg whites/etc). I actually stick to Oat Bran because it has more fiber than Oatmeal. I think that we all agree that increased testosterone/DHT causes more sebum production, which in some people like myself and many others causes acne. The reason for the increased hormones could be because of high-GI diet, however for us bodybuilders I think the reason is different. I believe it is well documented that when you break down muscle (due to very heavy weight training) and your body goes into repair mode, your body produces much more testosterone/DHT to build stronger muscles and gain size. I have read that people who take prescription drugs that blunt the DHT production have a very hard time gaining muscle size because testosterone is necessary for the anabolic increases. I personally have noticed that when I stop weight training my acne seems to go away or at least is much reduced. The moment I begin HEAVY lifting again, within 3-4 days the acne will return. I also notice that it comes and goes in cycles during my training periods. So for guys like us who are trying to get big and put on lean muscle mass, then I don't see any other choice than to suffer with the acne. I have been using Differin Gel at night for a very long time along with Azelex 20% in the morning, and it usually can keep the acne under control and to within just the forehead area. But there can be times when I get some bad breakouts, particularly after a few days of hard heavy training. I don't know anything else that can help, I've tried everything and I think I've pinned down my acne problem to be caused almost solely because of my heavy weight training workouts. IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-04-2003 03:19 PM
SanDiego, Thanks so much for your that =) That's what I've noticed from other acne sufferers who train. When they train their skin isn't as good as when they aren't. I guess that's the trade off you all make, but at least you know that you do have "control" over it. That's not to say that for those of us who just exercise, we are going to breakout. I know some do, but I've NEVER broken out from exercising even before I started my search for an internal treatment. While you do up your steriod hormone levels, exercising also decreases your cells Insulin Resistance. Hence why they tell Diabetics, etc to exercise. Another way to decrease IR is to get more sleep! ;-) Acneman, I know that eliminating grains and eating vegetables and proteins, etc will cause you to lose the fat and build lean muscle, but you won't be big. Soooo anyone interested in starting a new Body Building category? Such as "Acne-prone Builders" to find the most buff of the lean muscled or to save face we could just call it "IR Builders" ;-) IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-04-2003 03:22 PM
BlueEyes, Thanks, you are so sweet. =) What I know is in part thanks to all of you who ask questions and FORCE me to actually make use of that Biology so that I can answer your questions correctly. While I'm working at knowing more, it's good to know there are others around here who do know more than I. It's so great to see all us working together ;-) Jonesy and Mandilyn, [This message has been edited by SweetJade1 (edited 06-04-2003).] IP: Logged |
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amb1 Senior Member Posts: 132 |
posted 06-04-2003 05:41 PM
I'm female. Yeah, it has been rough going for me. After almost ten years, I finally took the accutane route and think (knock on wood) that it might be working. (I always jinx myself when I say that!!) My nutrition (and exercise) standards are almost obsessively rigid, people say. At least in my case, unfortunately diet isn't enough to help my face. The derm actually took one look at me and said "oh my God, we have to get this under control- NOW!" And he wasn't just pushing the Accutane, he was being truthful- my acne was extremely severe. I still get stares and stuff, but the swelling is way down and the pain is gone, thank goodness. It got to the point where I couldn't wash my face without bad pain. That improvement in itself has me inspired to get through this and be done! Anyway! Now I am rambling. I REALLY admire the time you put into this research. What a great tool for everyone to try- I know it certainly works for some. Why not me?!! Take care. IP: Logged |
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acneman Senior Member Posts: 86 |
posted 06-04-2003 07:10 PM
San Diego Do you eat dairy products? As you may know, in bodybuilding casein protein is very important before bed (milk, cottage cheese, etc). In my case, any dairy would break me out pretty badly so I just stopped eating dairy. See if you stop your dairy consumption maybe it will improve your acne. Also, remember that whey protein is dairy so limit your whey consumption, I only take 2 scoops of Opt. Nutrition 100% Whey Protein a day. Also, another thing, how much you weigh and how much protein are you eating? I've heard that excess of protein can aggravate acne. For instance, I weigh 175 lbs and eat about 190 g of protein max. As you know, only 1-1.5 g of protein per bw is necessary to build muscle. Also, eat only about 30 g of protein everytime you eat your meals, anything more will just be a waste. My acne is moderate. Let me know. SweetJade1 I know that whey is a dairy product but I only eat 2 servings a day, which I dont think is too much. I will post again in a week to let you know if oatmeal is breaking me out. IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-04-2003 09:13 PM
Amb1, Aww =( I am glad to see that you're skin is improving with Accutane. Hmm, it may not be that diet doesn't work for you, but maybe you weren't using the same diet as some of us follow. What method of low carbing were you doing? Even then, the longer a problem goes untreated the HARDER it is to treat. Sometimes you will need medication for a STRONG kick and then you can taper off and/or switch to alternative treatments. Accutane is an Insulin Sensitizer and a Anti-Androgen, so it's about as good as any other drug out here that you've heard us rave about. Infact, it's supposed to have an 80% success rate, but I wonder how many of them were strictly Puberty cases. I never took this route because I was afraid of the side effects. Years later, I learned that some people needed more than one treatment (sometimes 4x and no luck) or required a maintance dose. That right there sounds very much like what the roche article said, that the anti-androgen effects will only last DURING treatment. So for everyone this is NOT a one time drug, and now we can perhaps see why. In terms of other forms of the SAME hormonal therapy, accutane is just too expensive. My former derm nor any of my doctors ever pushed me toward it, instead some decided to help me figure out what was wrong internally. That was a decade in the making, but FINALLY 2 years ago I got my answer. I have PCOS or Insulin Resistance! Since I don't really meet the PCOS syndrome "symptoms" I usually just tell people that I'm Insulin Resistant if they wonder why I'm not eating bread ;-) So, up until 2 days ago, I didn't even KNOW why accutane worked. Did you??? In fact I don't think anyone knew, because no one around here has ever mentioned this. While I think that side effects aren't so good, I now have a different form of respect for this drug. It would be great if they would do more studies on this in terms of the IR aspect. The few (2 or 3) studies I found, connected Accutane to those that were Insulin Resistant or Diabetic. I think those individuals were IR or Diabetic to begin with and accutane had NOTHING to do with causing (might have made it worse though)it. I mean, that's the reason that accutane works to begin with, by increasing one's insulin sensitivity. So you are doing the EXACT same thing as everyone else on this board. Only interms of cost, if you don't have insurance, Accutane is the most expensive treatment, isn't it? How much do you pay? Then Next would be Avandia. I turn 23 in August and I will be paying for my own insurance and I wouldn't be able to afford this monthly, so that's another reason I'm GLAD diet helped me. I've also been on Spiro for the past 5 years and this is something that I can afford, but would LOVE to find an alternative (there's saw palmetto) so that I can be "all natural" LOL. So anyway, what other hormone balancing drugs have you tried? BC, Spironolactone, Avandia (treats insulin resistance), Metaformin, Flutamide, etc? Did you ever go to an endocrinologist to have your hormone levels thoroughly checked out? Take care IP: Logged |
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amr10023 Newbie Posts: 4 |
posted 06-05-2003 12:08 AM
WOW! I don't know if anyone will get to my reply, as I am way down on the page. Although, I have to congratulate the original poster. I read a few years back a post on a webpage like this regarding a study that was being conducted on insulin resistance vs. acne. Alpha Lipoic Acid is a natural remedy used to treat diabetics and insulin resistant individuals. Although, they were finding, like you mentioned, that there is a connection between blood glucose levels and hormone levels. If you can decrease one, then you can decrease the other. An endocronologist out of Jefferson Hospital in PA mentioed spirolactone to lower hormone levels or glucophage to lower blood sugar, then insulin, then hormone levels...since they were all connected. It was also found that certain foods or reaction to certain foods spiked glucose, insulin, and hormone levels. I decided to try ALA, and I've been on it for over two years now. I take 2 60 mg. capsules a day with food. I have seen a major reduction in oil & acne, espically on my back. I even have the ability to control my periods with ALA, almost like birth contol. There are also studies that indicate ALA may help prevent miscarriages in women who are prone to them. I went to an allergist and my tests were positive for dairy (cows milk) and tomatoes. So I cut them, along with high fructose corn syrup products, out of my diet and have seen a reduction in cystic acne. I also have no problems now with stomachaches, lethargy, etc. My acne is not cured 100%, but it is much better. I can live a normal life now and I have just started the smoothbeam treatments to get rid of any scarring and remaining acne. For those of you out there, living dairy free can be a big pain. I'm tired of people asking me why I eat the way that I do. Although, its better then when people used to ask me why my skin broke out so bad. amr10023@aolcom IP: Logged |
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SweetJade1 Veteran Posts: 493 |
posted 06-05-2003 12:53 AM
Amr, Hi there, I'm so thrilled to hear about all those connections you've found and that there are other doctors who notice! I had read in Energy magazine last summer about how acne is considered Skin Diabetes. The article suggested a variety of differe |
