posted 06-14-2003 11:24 PM            

I would like to state though, that I've had some form of acne since I was 6, but I didn't get the real breakouts until I was 10. I didn't get the body breakouts until I was 11. I'm now 22, I've been [/b]open minded[/b] enough and thankfully had the ability to try various things and see various doctors to get the answers that I NEEDED and it has gotten me where I am today...99% clear. =)

Ever since I was 11, I KNEW I had an imbalance, but I never knew what it was, and over time other symptoms of my hormonal imbalance (insulin resistance) have progressed (terrible menstrual cramps, mild hirsutism, hair growth problems). That is EXACTLY why the sooner you find out the truth (is it just puberty? or worse?) the better and happier you will be.

You may be wondering what else is wrong with me, LOL. To be honest I'm perfectly healthy and haven't been sick in years (if you don't count that odd ear infection last summer). I am NOT a Diabetic Type I or II. I do not have high cholesterol levels or high blood pressure. I am not obese, but actually underweight. Basically I don't fit the Mold, but yes, these treatments, some MUCH more than others, have worked for me.

Like I've mentioned in a few other posts, Insulin Resistance is something that we ALL go through during Puberty and then it goes away. It is a temporary part of our hormonal imbalance. Unfortunately for some of us, it can occur while in the womb or all the way into adulthood. As a result other hormonal problems occur, such as Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS), Diabetes, Heart Disease, Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (CAH or NCCAH), Obesity, Hirsutism, Hyperandrogenism, Hypothyrodism, etc.

Now, I'm not really sure if ALL hormonal disorders are related to this mechanism but the various defects that have acne as a symptom, keep going back to the same gene (cyp450). It's job is to make the enzymes neccessary in controlling our hormones, detoxification, etc. Infact, some of the treatments below, depending on your hormonal disorder, are a result of our body's being deficient in a certain enzyme.

That is why I URGE you ALL to see a doctor, a specialist even! If one of them ignores you, then TRY AGAIN and AGAIN!!! Over a 10 year time span, it took me THREE tries with an Endocrinologist before I got diagnosed and more importantly the neccessary prescriptions (spiro only now). However, there are various herbs and vitamins, and other supplements that can do the SAME job as the medications or diet would do. They all are going to either:

-balance your insulin levels which will balance your androgen levels OR

-they will balance your cortisol levels which will balance your androgen levels OR

-they will reduce your androgen levels, OR

-they are going to inhibit the effects of androgen in your system (sebaceous glands) OR

-they are going to prevent the conversion of testosterone into DHT (super androgen)

The list goes on depending on the disorder, but did anyone notice the key here is ANDROGEN? Thankfully there's several ways you can go about dealing with this hormone. While, I do not claim that diet will help EVERYONE, what I do know is that it has helped me and others that had tried a great deal of things, natural supplements, medications and I believe that we are really lucky as a result. We might be able to stop something worse from happening (fingers crossed).

Now, from various reputable sources, doctors, and testimonies, I've found that the most popular PRESCRIPTIONS among women are:

Birth Control (regular bc - contains estrogen to balances hormones, lowers testosterone)

Yasmin BC - (see above & has a progestin [synthetic progesterone known as Drospirenone]

Diane BC - (see above & has Cyproterone to block effects of androgen)

Provera - (a progestin, synthetic progesterone)

Prometruim - (oral NATURAL progesterone in peanut oil)

Spironolactone (diuertic for high blood pressure, DHT conversion inhibitor, inhibits the effects of testosterone, anti-androgen)

Flutamide (antiandrogen)

Finestaride (anti-androgen more popular among men)

Prednisone (anti-inflammatory, corticosteriod that improves cortisol balance)

Dexamethasone (anti-inflammatory, corticosteriod that improves cortisol balance)

Metaformin (balances insulin levels)

Avandia (decreases insulin resistance)

The most popular "NATURAL" treatments among women are:

NAC (n-acetyl-cysteine)

D-Chiro Inositol (formed from Lecithin, or inositol)

NPC (natural progesterone cream)

Vitex (chaste berry herb, NPC is made from this)

Saw Palmetto (DHT inhibitor)

ALA (alpha lipoic acid) / Chromium GTF

Digestive Enzymes / Fiber / Probiotics

Low Carbohydrate Dieting (Insulin Resistance Diet, Atkins, Blood Type, Anti-candida diets, etc)

In case I failed to say this, but you DO NOT have to have ALL of the "symptoms" of PCOS (Syndrome X, Syndrome O, & other names) to be dx as such. That's why it's called a syndrome, because there are no set symptoms. You can be thin and have regular periods, and no cysts, like myself and a few others, and still be pcos. The confusing part is whether PCOS is a symptom of Insulin Resistance or if Insulin Resistance is a symptom of PCOS ;-)

Through some hormonal testing of her own, one woman found out that she had high copper levels. Then she found out that progesterone cream would help balance this and so when she took it, her acne went away and her menstrual cycle regulated. She was PCOS this whole time, but her doctors didn't pay enough attention to her (gave her accutane, but it didn't work 100%). I'm not sure what else she uses, but she doesn't avoid food as "strictly" as I do becaue the NPC has balanced her hormones wonderfully.

So you see, I'm not just all about diet. I'm more about getting you all to be AWARE that there are other reasons and treatments available that go behind possible temporary drugs, such as Accutane and Antibiotics. Cuz to be honest, I don't really care what you use, (I do want you to be healthy) as long as you get the results you DESERVE! Hopefully, if nothing else, you'll at least be more aware of ALL the other treatments that exist and you can pass this along and HELP someone else.

Take care =)

P.S. Yes, MEN can be PCOS also ;-) Or if it makes you feel better, you can consider yourselves Insulin Resistant, since you aren't likely to have certain supposed symptoms. Personally, I think the term PCOS is just used for those people that the doctors can't find another disorder for. Infact, unless I'm really close with them, most people just think I'm sorta Insulin Resistant as the reason I avoid certain foods. So anyway, because men are just as capable of being Insulin Resitant as women, they can and HAVE used MOST of the above treatments to balance/lower their testosterone levels, among other health problems.

posted 06-15-2003 07:00 AM            

i know i have too much male hormones, (hairs on chin, fingers, toenails, tummy, thick coarse skin)
or maybe too few female hormones
or maybe both

posted 06-15-2003 02:35 PM            

Yes, BC could break you out if it has synthetic progesterone or testosterone and your body doesn't need anymore. However, that is exactly why I'm hesitant to try NPC, because even though it is natural progesterone my blood and saliva results show that I have more than enough.

However for some women that have irregular periods, cystic ovaries, uterine fibroids, breast fibroids, high prolactin levels, low progesterone levels, among the acne, NPC or Vitex may be their savior.

posted 06-15-2003 02:57 PM            

Micheguns,
I always thought that I must have low estrogen since I didn't blossom as much as I thought I would. Turns out that even with normal estrogen levels, if your testosterone is too high, it will overide what estrogen you have and possibly stunt ones development. Yet that is not entirely the case with you...

You don't have enough estrogen and have normal testosterone etc levels. So your body may be sensitive to the testosterone you do have, why the spiro should help. However, what about your Progesterone, Prolactin, Lutienizing hormone (LH) and Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH)? These are a part of the reproductive cycle and if one of these are imbalanced, it may explain why your menstrual cycle is irregular.

This would be a "symptom" of PCOS and another way to diagnose this would be to see if you have any cysts on your ovaries. Chances are if you are not having regular periods, then you do have cystic ovaries. Every time you miss a period, there should be at least one cyst. This isn't too big a deal unless you want to have children, because you may not have an easy time at conceiving, if you are able to concieve at all.

Of course, these would also effect your acne levels. More estrogen might help balance that out (phytoestrogen herbs?). More progestrone might help as well, since it can be converted into estrogen or testosterone (probably why Dsheldon broke out). Plus it or vitex will dissolve the cysts and allow for you to have regular cycles again. Otherwise, the above drugs are what will likely help you regulate your period and clear your skin. So don't forget to talk to your doctors about this.

posted 06-15-2003 03:48 PM            

I used to love azeliac acid while I was on it. It zapped and also exfoilated and lightened my marks. I personally am a fan of BHA and AHA and have had just as good, if not better results than when I was on prescriptions topicals.

Also, since you started taking some of these drugs, just give these treatments 3 months or so to work. Once your meds kick in, you probably won't need the prescription topicals anymore and might want to give the others a try. Oh and if you are getting soreness than NOW is the time to start eating protein, gelatin, brewyers yeast etc. maybe it's not too late! LOL Anyway, I really really hope everything will be more normal for you soon.

posted 06-15-2003 06:50 PM            

diet is no option , i donīt see myself cooking
two meals a day for my family.

posted 06-15-2003 07:49 PM            

Acne through the age of 32 (how many years total?)

Body hair in places where most women don't and some men don't

Anything else?

posted 06-15-2003 08:18 PM            

Skincare Regimen:
-neutrogena fresh foaming wash (2x a day), it is gentle...
-azeleic acid (nightime)
-neostrata oil free lotion spf15 (am)
-blot with clinique clotting papers a million times a day (lol)

As long as you are sure that none of these are breaking you out and are helping to rid the acne than keep using them.

Internal Regimen:
-spiro 100mg a day (1 pill)
-dynacin 100mg (2xaday)
-estrogen shot (once every 2 weeks)
-prometrium (100mg, 1 pill for 10 days a month)

I think everything here is good. You basically have something similar to Dianette BC (Diane 35) going on above with the Spiro/Estrogen shot. Then you've got something similar to Yasmin BC going on with the Prometrium/Estrogen shot.

While you may have to tweek the above formula, it looks like you are covered at all angles. You've got your Estrogen replacement, your Natural progesterone to balance your hormones and maintain menstrual regularity, and your anti-androgen. The only thing I'm wondering about is the Dynacin.

I believe that this is just another name for Minocycline. If so, some antibiotics, like this one, actually raise androgen levels even though they are still acting as anti-inflamatories on the skin. So once you go off of them, you have lots of androgen floating around and it would explain why some of us broke out terribly as a result. I took this drug for only 3 months and it made my skin beautiful (on BC and spiro at the time) and a month after I stopped, I broke out worse than I had in years. The BC and Spiro weren't as effective, I cried depression (blamed the BC) and that's actually what lead me to my current endocrinologist and regimen. However, I understand that you REALLY want this stuff gone, so perhaps in a few weeks you may want to stop taking this antibiotic.

If the other drugs aren't strong enough to support your skin and cycles normally w/o this, then you need to make some more adjustments (took me 5 years and I'm still not 100% there). You don't need any oral antibiotics. Since you have low estrogen levels, how come they aren't giving you a regular bc pill instead (with no progestins) and then taking the Prometruim and Spiro as above?

Nonetheless, YES I believe that you should definately see some results. Hopefully this first combination will work for you and you won't have to test out other forms of medication. Some people note decrease in oilyness within 2 - 4 weeks, I personally don't remember (been on Spiro for 5 years). However Spiro can cause you to have irregular periods (not for me) and that's another reason you may want to check on the BC pill.

Take care and let me know how you visit goes ;-)

posted 06-15-2003 11:35 PM            

I'm taking Vitex and saw palmetto because I have always suspected that I have strong sensitivity to my androgens. I have bugged my derm about spiro a few times but she insisted on the Mino because my acne wasn't "bad" enough for Spiro.

posted 06-16-2003 01:58 AM            

I started breaking out a little bit about 8 months ago and I thought I'd just go back on it, but it had totally stopped working. When I got off it the second time, I eventually ended up with cysts. However, this could all have to do with my hormonal acne which my derm says begins around age 21 (I just turned 21 6 months ago) and maybe those two events just happened coincidently at the same time.

posted 06-16-2003 05:23 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SweetJade1:
Monique,
How can you say that you don't think that you've got hirsutism or PCOS when you just listed the "symptoms" earlier? You have:

Acne through the age of 32 (how many years total?)

Body hair in places where most women don't and some men don't

Anything else?

Those are my symptoms and Spiro helped along with the oiliness, the cystic acne, and the mild hirsutism. My diet further helped and did a better job than Avandia or BC ever did (both can treat the above). So if you have the money or insurance, I think that you have reason enough to see a specialist.

---

Sweetjade, i have problemskin for 18 years now.
Iīm very fertile (3 kids) but i could not breastfeed, not enough milk and i have a small chest.
Maybe i do have mild hirsutism.
Could you tell me more about your diet or point me in the direction of a website with more info.
Maybe i should give this diet a try.
Iīve given up on docters, familydoctors donīt easily send you to a specialist. My problems are not worse enough. I donīt have cystic acne.
Iīm on diane 35 which worked okay but iīm getting pimples again and blackheads. I wanna try b5 and avoid certain foods.
the saga seems to continue forever

posted 06-16-2003 05:03 PM            

I've taken antibiotics off and on while was a kid and I noticed that Erythromycin cleared my skin. However So I took it for a month longer than neccessary (darn horse pill) and I can't recall if I brokeout any worse. Part of the reason is that I was ALWAYS breaking to begin with ;-) You will definately notice a difference if you have maintained a certain level prior to antibiotics, and then all of sudden after stopping, your skin does a 180 from that point.

Since we are all so different, that may explain why some of us didn't breakout after stopping the antibiotics. Some of us make too much male hormones while others are more sensitive to the normal amount of hormones they have. So perhaps someone who doesn't make as much hormones or never had cystic acne to begin with, wouldn't breakout any worse after stopping the antibiotic. Not to mention that over time your body's bacteria will become resitant and it's anti-inflammatory abilities will decrease. Anyway, it's just a thought, but no one should ever take these type of drugs for acne.

posted 06-16-2003 05:29 PM            

I do not recall having any intial breakouts due spiro. I know that some people can't tolerate spiro, it makes them too sleepy and dehyrdated, and dry skinned. I felt a bit sleepy when I was on 200mg, so that's why I dropped down to a 150mg. It's a duretic and so it will flush several lbs of water weight from you. I lost 10 lbs because of spiro, not my diet, and the Avandia will actually put the weight back on you. So while I was on avandia I gained the weight back, and lost it as soon as I stopped (cuz I was still taking the spiro). I guess you can't have everything....but I'll keep workin on it ;-)

posted 06-16-2003 06:04 PM            

During the past 18 years, did you ever have cystic acne? How often did you breakout? How long have you been on Diane 35?

It's interesting that you say your doctors won't help you and that your acne isn't severe enough, but they have you on Diane 35. Do you know why you were put on this particular form of bc? For some reason (not available at in the us), I never had the option of Diane or Yasmin, but they are popular among women with acne and other hormonal problems. They cotain different key ingredients outside of just estrodial (estrogen).

In your case, Diane-35 contains an anti-androgen. If they didn't think it was severe enough, why are you taking an anti-androgen? Now, I don't know how good Cyproterone is compared to Spiro, but I know that some women end up taking an additional anti-androgen along with the Diane. Not to mention that your extra body hair is due to androgens. There's no such thing as idopathic hirsutism, it is caused by a hormonal imbalance.

I was 17 and going in for a check up and my female doctor looked at me and said, "you're not supposed to have that much hair on your arms!" Then she looked at my face and other areas and said no no, you shouldn't have acne this bad. She put me on the regular birth control pills and after 3 months my Free Testosterone Levels decreased by 50%.

Then I got to see an Endo that was visiting for that a day, and he said that some women are more sensitve to their male hormones than other women wether they make too much or a NORMAL amount. So, you don't have to make too much, for your receptors to be extremely sensitive to androgens. He suggested Spironolactone, if the bc doesn't help more in a few months. So a few months later I started on the Spiro and this was my combination (kinda like Diane-35) for 3 years.

Unfortunately, that still wasn't enough and above I mentioned my Minocycline fiasco, and that's how I ended up eventually on my current diet. I never tried B5, but this actually, hehe, is related to insulin resistance as well. Everything we use and rave about, can all be traced back to some flaw in our Insulin metabolism.

Somewhere on here is a thread by Bunny about B5 and I talk a bit more about it there. Who knows what the ultimate cause is outside of a gene defect, but its VERY interesting how everything seems to be connected. Whether it's the chicken or the egg that came first, I don't know, but I know we can use it to help us.

I just know that I'd rather avoid certain foods than pay all that money to take all these different pills. Yet if all you need is one or 2 pills, then go for it. If you want to try dieting, then you need to pick a low carb diet. I don't know of any websites I can post on this board, but look for Glycemic Index vs. Glycemic Load and you will see why a portion of us improved when we went switched to whole grains, low grains, or no grain diets.

The Atkins Diet, The Insulin Resistance Diet, Gluten Free Diet, Blood Type Diet, and Paleolithic Diet seem to get very good responses. Anywhere from 90% - 100% improvement, but of course the 100% means you've gotta pick the right one. ;-)

posted 06-16-2003 06:31 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by mudpixie:
SweetJade, I did not know that Minocycline raises androgen levels!!! Now I am REALLY worried.

I'm taking Vitex and saw palmetto because I have always suspected that I have strong sensitivity to my androgens. I have bugged my derm about spiro a few times but she insisted on the Mino because my acne wasn't "bad" enough for Spiro.

Do you think the herbs I am taking will help minimize the androgen levels caused by the Mino, or at least help the breakouts not return when I come off it?

---

Mudpixie, that's interesting about your derm. There is some derm out there that automatically gives his patient Dexamethasone (used for Non-congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia, NCCAH) before he'll put them on Spironolactone. Isn't he wonderful?

Also PCOS and NCCAH can sometimes be dx as one or the other. Infact, my doctor tested me 2x for NCCAH and still checks related hormone levels regularly. Those are the two hormonal disorders you are likely to hear about connected to women. However, men can also become NCCAH, and what this is that sometime during puberty or in adulthood all of sudden your hormones start acting crazy, feel weaker, weight problems, etc.

It really doesn't matter what your DX is unless you are feeling extremely fatigued and having trouble focusing. If it's related androgen, the same treatments usually apply (see above). On the other, Vitex and Saw Palmetto (80% - 95% standardized)are quite popular alternative treatments, especially among those with true PCOS. Saw Palmetto is actually supposed to be more effective than Finasteride as a DHT inhibtor. Beta Sitosterol, is actually the active ingredient in Saw Palmetto and a few others that are popular among men for treating prostate problems (due to DHT or lack of progesterone) and can be purchased seperately.

As for vitex, this is the herb used to synthetically derive natural progesterone cream. Our bodies don't have the ability to convert vitex or wild yam into progesterone so, if you are looking for that you are better off purchasing the cream. Now, as to why vitex still works, I don't know ; -) All I know is that it will regulate menstrual flow, even in women who didn't previously have any. Plus it will balance out your hormones to the extent that it eliminates your acne. Now, I've never taken this because I was afraid of breakouts and some women have broken out, so it very much so depends on what your body is imbalanced in.

I will say that I've never broken out from Saw Palmetto and I was taking 1800mg a day. I will probably start taking this again in hopes of replacing the Spiro. Usually women take 300mg - 1000mg a day, with results such as less hair falling out, decreased acne, decreased body hair, breast development...or nothing. Now, a male can use saw palmetto, but he can not take doses that high. Infact, he shouldn't take no more than 100 - 600mg a day. If he takes too much....he'll know it ;-)

Oh and zinc (30mg) and niacin have always been favorites. Not to mention folic acid (400-800mcg) and Selenium (200mcg) for decreased blemishes and increased skin cell shedding. NAC is also good with detoxing and balancing the insulin levels. Infact, I think most of these play some role in that and for NAC try taking 600mg - 3000mg a day. To be honest, there are soooo many herbs and vitamins that will affect your sugar and insulin levels, but you don't need them all. Best thing to do is to get a good multiple vitamin that contains the above and milk thistle to help your liver, if you want. ;-)

In fact, you can take a Glucose Balancing formula, a men's prostate formula, or a mens multiple that contain some of the same anti-androgen herbs. I currently don't take any multip, but I'm very serioulsy considering taking a man's multiple. However, you want to research the formula first. Some act as aromatase inhibitors, which will prevent testosterone from turning into estrogen. For a man that's taking an anti-androgen that's probably a good thing, but for a women, I don't know. However I believe saw palmetto does the same thing and so does nettle and they are good anti-androgens at the same time.

Take care

posted 06-16-2003 07:13 PM            

I will say that for the past 10 months, I have been on a Gluten Free Diet (low grain), meaning I avoid eating wheat, barely, rye, and some other grains. That means about 90% of grocery store prepared food, so I've drastically cut down on Frozen, Canned, and Fast Food.

I also take 150mg of Spiro, but I dont' always take it every day. I've gone a week without taking it with no reprecussions (did this before the diet change though).

Since I'm just a busy working college student, I still don't have a perfect diet. I'm hoping this summer I will learn to cook more meals myself, but as a result, I do not eat enough vegetable to REPLACE the fiber I lost when I dropped those grains. So I take a Fiber Supplment (vegetable based) 2x a day (benefiber). Not everyone who drops grains has to do this, but that's because they eat a lot more fruits and vegetables than I do.

Otherwise, I don't take anything else. No vitamins, no zinc, no herbs, nothing. I want to take fish oils and liquid or gel cap vitamins, but the Fiber supplement makes it a bit tricky for me. It will absorb the oil, so I can't take it with that. With my schedule, I don't always remember to take all these things every other hour ;-)

That's actually the reason I decided to try this diet. A year ago, my "cure" looked as if it would involve nearly 40 pills a day! That included my tiny spiro pills, the avandia, herbs, multivitamin, and some other supplements. I really can not take all of that on a daily basis not to mention the money involved. So I am really gratelful that this diet ended up helping me out.

posted 09-02-2003 03:59 PM            

Retin-a cleared me pretty well before (used it about a year ago and stoppped) but I'm going on my 8th week now back on it, and I'm far from clear. My breakouts mainly occur on my forehead, chin, and side of my cheeks/hair line.

I was usually all about the fact that diet has nothing to do with acne. But now I see such a well written post and my friend's experience to change my mind. My friend, who is overweight, is doing Atkin's now. I have never seen her skin look so great. She never really had a lot of pimples, but did get between 3-4, now her skin is clear!

I think, starting right now I'm going to go low-carb and low iodine. Both have been linked to acne. Also only drinking green tea and water.

Tomorrow I plan on getting more BC pills, don't know if I should stay on OTC as it hasn't really done anything, I was thinking to switch to Yasmin, should I do it after only a month and a half on OTC? I'm also going to get some erythromycin topical. I used it before with the Retin, maybe the combination is what did it and Retin cannot clear me alone?