posted 12-11-2002 08:47 AM            

Regards,

posted 12-12-2002 02:06 PM            

Where does the pain originate from? Where does it go to on the body? Sometimes the doctors look to far down the spine to find the problem. Also some doctors refuse to look at the middle spine because they really don't have the expertise to give a proper opinion.

posted 12-12-2002 02:13 PM            

They do not use drugs, they treat the whole body, the whole person, and given it seems you've run the gammut on medical doctors, perhaps a chiropractic doctor would give you a fresh perspective.

Given it's non-invasive, there's no surgery or drugs, maybe you'd find it helpful.

posted 12-14-2002 03:01 AM            

Since you say the pain starts in the middle back I assume you may be having a problem with the Thorasic spine. Most all nuerosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons are not qualified to give advice on the thorasic spine. That area of the spine in which the vetebre have the ribs attached normally doesn't get damaged. When the thorasic spine is damaged it is a very serious situation. Unlike other parts of the spine it will not heal itself. There is no real physical therapy that can help you get good relief. The choices of treatment are medications, spinal injections and, surgery. Only one out of hundred nuerosurgeons are qualified to give proper advice and one out of 100 of them are qualified to do surgery. Before I would let a chiropractor touch me I would insist on a MRI of the Thorasic and Lumbar spine to rule out some major problem. First you need to find a nuerosurgeon or orthopedic surgeon who is an expert in the Thorasic spine. Even if your doctor relents and lets you have a MRI very few radiologists can even properly read a Thorasic MRI. The smallest of herniated disks are major problems in that area of the spine.

I have had a thorasic diskectomy and it came down to the fact that I was getting worse as time passed. A herniated thorasic disk can be a very deblitating problem. So be careful.

posted 12-14-2002 11:10 AM            

MRIs are expensive tests, so the insurance companies don't like doctors to prescribe them. But they are great at diagnosis of disk problems. You really need to find a doctor who will get you an MRI. Find a spine specialist... that's where you will get help.

posted 12-14-2002 04:00 PM            

(Another interesting observation is how those with one, often develop pain in the other, so cervical and lumbar tend to go hand in hand, at least eventually as time goes on)

I'd think ANY disk involvement, regardless of location, is enough to be considered "serious" and warranting attention.

posted 12-15-2002 03:00 AM            

The reason for so many people having one problem in the back and later have another has to do with the realignment of the spine. The spine is like a stack of quarters. When one is out of line another above or below must displace to equal everything out. That is the main reason not to procrastinate having a problem tended to. Sometimes when surgery is done the fused vertebre are not aligned correctly and it can cause another to herniate. Then there is the problem with drugs. When steriods are used they can deteriorate the disk causing a blowout or herniation. That is the reason no more than 3 ESI are given in a year. So many factors can cause other parts of the back to react so not one can be the main reason.

As far as the thorasic spine and why is it so difficult. The thorasic spine is the most complex of the spine vertebre. God devised it so that it could take quite a bit of punishment and not be damaged. Some people who have problems are due to degenerative disk disease. Normally several disks in a row are affected and it develops over a great deal of time. Surgery on it is a drastic measure and is usually avoided by doctors. Trauma is the main cause of most thorasic spine problems. A fractured vertebre or a herniated disk caused by some accident are the main culprits. I had an accident at work in which a heavy box fell on top of my chest after a fall. The box caused a herniated disk at the T7/8 junction. The fall also caused a herniated disk at the C5/6 and a tear of the disk at L5/S1. I guess I was lucky in a spine injury sort of way. Not funny! The surgery for the cervical herniation was treated first. PT and ESI was done. Since niether helped surgery was done. The thorasic spine was another thing. The doctor who is a very gifted nuerosurgeon would not touch the thorasic spine. Not that he couldn't do the surgery as he explained it. He knew another surgeon who was an expert at doing the surgery and with him my recovery time would be shorter. The nerves in the thorasic spine control all of the organs in your chest and adomen area. So in short one slip and your stomach stops producing the acid to digest your food. You have problems breathing and so on and so forth. You get the picture. In the past sucess rates very low. At one time thorasic surgery was a 70% chance of ending up paralized. Then when the methods were improved the method of entry through the front of your chest to operate required a team of surgeons to perform.

My surgery was a new method of access from the side. My chances were still poor in some respects. I had a 50% chance of waking up in intensive care. 20% chance of being paralized. But with this surgeon a 70% chance of some improvement. The surgery is one of last resort. My condition was such that over a short period of time I had numbness of both legs to the feet. Bowel and bladder control problems. Total impotency and unending pain that even on the heaviest of medications would not make it go away. I tried medications. I tried ESIs. There is no real PT because that area of the spine doesn't move like the rest. So surgery was my only real option. I knew that if left unattended I would probally end up in a wheelchair with the speed of my deterioration. If it was only pain I probally would not of had the surgery. The other problems were of major concern to me. So I decided to have the surgery. I was scheduled and 2 days before the surgery the W/C insurance company refused the surgery on the grounds that they thought I didn't need it. So a 18 month legal battle ensued with my condition getting worse month by month. After 8 months I was able to get my own health insurance to pay for the operation and so I had it done. The surgery stop the progression of worsening problems and even reversed some of my problems. But, that lag of time left me with problems I didn't have when the surgery was first scheduled. 10 months after the surgery I had a civil jury trial and they ruled that the W/C insurance carrier was responsible for the surgery. So hurrah justice is served. Or is it? The trial was in August of this year and still they have not paid for any of the doctor and hospital bills yet. They haven't paid for any of medications yet. They haven't paid for anything yet. The last thing they have said is that "I" waited to long to have the surgery. "You should have had the surgery sooner. That it wasn't their fault for the delay." their attorney said. It all came down to money. The surgery has cost so far about $90,000. They didn't want to pay for it. The other part is I am about 50% disabled permamently and I guess that they are not responsible to take care of me for that either. I can not work. So my family has not seen a penny since all this began in March of 01. So, I guess the longer they can drag it out the better for them. Well it all will end soon. Next week I have another hearing to put most of this to an end. I wonder what they will say next?

Well sorry to go on and on. I hope some of this answers your questions. Through necessity I became knowledgable about the spine. Since I still suffer who knows what I will have to do next. I haven't even dealt with the L5/S1 tear yet. I only know that I take enough narcotics to float a small school into space and it still doesn't cover it. To give you all an idea of the pain amount, I forgot a pill one day last week and found out I had an severly abcessed tooth and never felt it.

Any other questions I would be happy to answer.

posted 03-01-2003 10:15 AM            

It seems that you are experiency some Nerves entrapment in your back. If you are willing to try our my suggestion, I may be able to help you out to partially or totally relive your pain / problem:

These Nerves all start from your spine and go different directions. Any of the pain that these nerves are causing will be felt in all or partially in those areas. By the way, those Sciatic Nerves, at your buttocks, are almost the size of your thumbs. It is the most common type of lower Back Pain and easy to have. It does not require very much strain to have this Injury / Pain. If caught early enough, it is the easiest one to fix otherwise, it may require many sessions of Massage Therapy. If you are willing to try this Method that I am using on my wife and many of my Clients: " It requires three person, including yourself, to use the special technique. On a very stiff bed, you lay straight on your side, bracing yourself with one hand to sturdy yourself, one person puts his/her hands against your lower back spine so that it does not curve and the third one grabs both of your feet together and brings them forward as far as possible toward your belly then, brings them back down in the same manner to where they were. You then, lay on your belly, the second person holds your lower back spine again and the third person grabs one leg at a time, does not matter which one that you start with, moves it straight outward as far as possible and back then, the other leg in the same manner and back. At that point, you should lay there for a few minutes to catch your breath and then, get out of the bed from your left or right side and not forward. This method should fix your Sciatic Nerve entrapment.

The next thing that you should do and it is extremely important, is to get on a kitchen table and do the following exercise that I will try to describe to you as follow:

Lay and rest your upper body on the table;
Extend your arms forward to hold yourself on the table;
Put both of your leg and feet together;
Lift both of your legs/feet up slowly as far as possible;
Hold;
put both of your leg and feet back down slowly;

Do as many as you can and repeat as many time during the day and for many more days to come. You will have strenghten your back and as long as you exercise, this Sciatic Nerve problem should not reoccur again to you. You should keep doing this Exercise to keep your back in shape.

You should print this technique so that you do not forget the way it is done. If this technique is not followed to the letter, you will get a lot of pain by its improper use.

Hope that you follow it properly and that it works for you.