posted 02-04-2003 04:32 PM            

First, MaryAnne is right that the MRI doesn't necessarily show nerve impingement. Many people present with bulging disks on MRIs and have no pain. The MRI can be very helpful in some cases though; it was in mine.

I would suggest a second opinion, in a place unconnected with the doc who gave you the spinal tap. There is a possibility they may be trying to cover up some issue there... although possibly not as well. Could there possibly be an infection? It doesn't sound like you have many of those symptoms, though. But if the spinal tap were in the lumbar area, and you're having nerve problems in your arm, that is strange. When I had numbness, cold, and pain in an extremity, one of my doctors suggested reflex sympathetic dystrophy.... turned out they were wrong but I thought I'd just mention it here anyway.

You need to find a very good spine specialist, probably a neurosurgeon, to give you a battery of tests including a myleogram. Don't rest until you get an appropriate diagnosis, and don't go back to the same doc who is unable or unwilling to help you. It's all a matter of finding the right doctors... I went to people for years who misdiagnosed me... then in one visit this one doctor pinpointed the REAL problem.

Good luck, and keep us posted!

Best,
Telzey

posted 02-04-2003 06:40 PM            

But first -- YES, bulging disks DEFINITELY can cause pain. As a matter of fact bulging, torn, herniated or otherwise out-of-place disks are one of the MAJOR causes of back pain. Even millimeters of bulge can cause pain, depending upon your body anatomy.

I have some more thoughts for you now that you've told me more of your story. The bulging disks may be what is causing your pain, or it may be something else.

What PT have you done, and is there anything you have done which has (a) made your pain better or (b) made it worse? What?

Talk to you later.
Telzey

posted 02-04-2003 07:23 PM            

Telzey is a sweetheart, she always has great advice, and always takes the time from her own pain to help others, I'm so glad she is with us

I also wanted to say that I agree with Telzey, more tests are in order.

It sounds to me like you may also be a good candidate for a discogram.
That is a procedure that will be able to pin point what areas are causing your symptoms.
Sometimes the other standard tests and scans don't pick up the images as well.

You can do a search on discograms, and lots of info. will pop up.
I think the EMG may also be another good one for you to have.

Please don't give up, it takes a long time, and sometimes many doctors, but your pain is real, and you just need the proper tests to prove it.
I have been to so many doctors, I lost count

Good luck and I will be following your progress.

Have a great evening,
Baxter

Telzey,

What the heck happened the other day, was it an earth quake ?

------------------
Two level laminectomy fusion L5-S1 & L2-3 done on 12/6/02.
Fifteen inch scar from the very top of butt crack (sorry), to the bra line.
BAK cages, rods & screws.(Titanium)
My pelvic bone was used for grafting.
Praying that the other two discs in between, won't have to be fused later, as I was told it was a possibility, due to the other two discs in between, not being in that great of shape.
Doc didn't want to fuse four levels, unless it is really necessary.
I would hate to repeat the surgery, as the recovery period, is so very painful.
I also have a free fragment in my T11-12 area, that I'm still refusing surgery for, at this point in time.
That surgery is way too dangerous for me to consider, until if affects my being able to walk.

posted 02-04-2003 10:33 PM            

Pain in the back and radiating down the legs with numbness is a CLASSIC sign of disk involvement. However, it sounds like your MRI only showed a very slight bulge that was not pressing on the nerve root (I can translate the whole MRI language for you if you like, but basically that's what it's saying). To my mind that doesn't mean anything, though. My doctor pointed out the problem disk on my MRI to me, and the tear was very small and causing LARGE pain.

Further tests might reveal more. However, as MaryAnne pointed out, they are more invasive. You have to consider whether or not you want more invasive tests now, when the spinal tap may possibly have started some of this problem.

Now, is there some possibility that the condition which caused your headaches is also causing some of your pain today? I don't know what that condition is or if it could spread.

If you only had the back and leg pain and numbness, I'd say it was probably from a disk problem, possibly from hitting a nerve or doing some damage when they went in there for the spinal tap.

However, the symptoms in your arm are puzzling. They don't fit with the standard pattern. I think
you should try to find the best doctor in your area, and don't give up. If any of them try to tell you the pain is all in your head, find another doctor. There is tremendous variation in quality from doctor to doctor, and getting a good one makes all the difference.

Hope this helps a little! Good luck with your search.

Telzey

P.S. Thanks for the kind words, Baxter! I could say absolutely the same things about you, my dear

Yes, we had a small swarm of earthquakes, culminating in a 4.2. I felt 3 of the largest ones, gradually increasing in magnitude, and on the last I looked it up on the earthquake site on the web. No problems... everything was very minor. Thanks for asking...

posted 02-05-2003 12:57 AM            

You are in good hands with Telzey, Baxter and MaryAnne. My hunch is you have disk involvement in 2 regions of your back. Your lumbar and your thoracic. My MRI showed only a slight annular bulge at L5/S1 and a little DDD on the other lumbar disks. It also showed the disks were not as 'plump' as they should be. Almost a year later of constant pain...my doctor finally ordered a discogram/CT scan for me. I had an inverted hernia (no way the MRI was gonna find that one) and my disks were ruptured all the way around (I wasn't walking anymore).

The discogram is done with needles and the pain can be dealt with in the face of knowing the truth. When the surgeon injected the dye into the disk (to cause pressure to induce the pain), they set the stage for the CT scan. When the took the pictures of the dye, my contorl disk (L3/L4) was a nice little oval dark spot. On L4/L5...the dye fanned out like a peacock's tail. On L5/S1...the dye blackened out the entire disk and everything around it (there wasn't much left of it so the dye went EVERYWHERE).

Anyway...it sounds like you've done your research. Your next assignment will be to research all the non-invasive treatments available to treat your diagnosis (once you get a good one). hehe (sorry, couldn't resist). Good luck to you.

posted 02-06-2003 07:34 PM            

The arm pain, middle of shoulder blade pain, and the headaches can all be cervical. (Neck)

The suggestion that you have TWO areas of your back in need of investigation was probably the best advise yet.

Rather than "piecemeal" your tests, ask if they will do a complete screening of your whole back to get a GOOD idea of what is truly going on.

Many procedures have been done, only to find the residual pain is due to an undiagnosed secondary problem.