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 I'm confused, and sad about back pain....
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drpainkiller Junior Member  Posts: 7 |
posted 07-22-2003 03:58 AM
  
I'm happy that a lot of people are getting out of pain from successful surgeries, but really sad that most of these poor people suffering from back problems are going from drugs to surgery. Is it because most people try the drugs for awhile, then the pain doesn't go away, so they are given surgery as their answer? Granted, if someone has loss of function in their bowel or bladder, or other severe neurological deficits then surgery may be the only solution. But I think people are on the medication too long without doing any active therapies to resolve there problems. How can a mechanical problem be resolved by a chemical solution. Would you take painkillers for a cavity in your tooth, and just wait until it's time to yank it out? If you had a hole in your roof, would you just put a bucket under it every time it rains? It doesn't make since...were is the logic? It's not your fault though! You only do what your MD tells you to do. The drug companies make a lot of money off of your pain, so unfortunately it's a business. Chemicals can help initially, but in conjunction with the right active therapies which are designed to stengthen muscles, and take pressure off of injured areas. Even injured disks can be fixed with the right exercises (Mckenzie). Isn't medication the natural approach to back pain. Basically you take a drug to numb the pain, then wait for the body to lay down scar tissue and heal it's self. Does this model work. Obviously not, according to all these poor people suffering from back problems. Some people say, "well I tried physical therapy and it didn't work"! So did you just get some ice/heat, stim, ultrasound and a piece of paper with some exercises on it? Really, who is going to go home, with lot's pain, and start doing exercises which actually can make you feel worse. Exercise for injuries have to be supervised, and done in conjunction with other therapies that help reduce scar tissue, adhesion, and decrease pain. And the active therapy has to continue beyond the pain until the muscles are strong enough to handle daily stress. 2 times a week of exercise is all it takes to stimulate changes in the soft tissue. And once the muscle are strong 1 time per week, for the rest of your life, is enough to keep those muscles strong. I'm sorry, but once you stop using a muscle it gets weak, so one of your responsibilities for taking care of your body is exercise; just like taking a shower, brushing your teeth, combing your hair. I bet you didn't forget to eat or take a shower today, but did you exercise? I say this because I know people don't like too or want too exercise especially if they are in pain. I'm not saying anybody is lazy or doesn't want to get better, it's just that most people don't get the right supervised exercises for their problem, especially not in work comp, because it takes time, and time is money, and if you are in the work comp system be careful, cause most docs get into work comp for the money. It pays better the any other type of health insurance, and the more you see, the more you make. I know some people are well beyond conservative treatments, because there's so much damage, and it's been so long, that surgery is the only hope. And there are less invasive procedures like IDET, and micro-discectomies that are great for some disc problems, but you would still need to exercise to strengthen the muscles around that disc after surgery to prevent more damage to the disc. When you injure your back, or any body part, you have to fix the injured tissue, and the only thing that can do that is exercise. Plus you can take additional stress off the area, by reducing body mass, and eliminating perpetuating factors like poor posture, which is the number one factor stressing your weak or injured area. Lack of activity and exercise is the major cause of not only muscle and joint problems, but also heart disease, diabetes and other diseases. I know it's hard to make the effort and commitment, to exercise, but it's the only way to prevent and treat muscle and joint problems. Exercise works great with medication and supervision, but medication and no active therapies, leads to more pain, depression, and surgery. Please take an active role in your pain, and don't accept drugs as your only option. If you want to take them great, but just also find the right person who will also give you the exercises, along with the drugs. Drugs and exercise can work great together, because the drugs will let you move to do the exercises. If you just lay there, you might not have pain but you are getting worse, because your muscles get weaker and more scar tissue set in. I don't understand how medication EVER started to become the initial treatment of choice for muscle and joint problems. If you don't have cancer or something else, who needs a doctor!?! All you need is a drug dealer. Drugs, by themselves, do not help you HEAL from a muscle or joint problem! It's impossible, and a dangerous solution. Remember drugs alone bad, drugs/exercise good, exercise/ice best! If you can just say no to drugs and surgery, and do the active therapies that really work first, because it addresses the real tissue issue! I wish you lot's of love, success, and happiness...Todd [This message has been edited by drpainkiller (edited 07-22-2003).] IP: Logged |
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scissorhands Member Posts: 38 |
posted 07-22-2003 08:04 AM
Well Todd, where do I start? From your post I was guessing you were in the PT business, so a Myofascial Pain Specialist is just as close. How many back surgegies have you had? Have you ever had back pain? If you can answer "YES" to these two questions then maybe I would take your advice on exercise...No one here enjoys having to take "hands full of pills" but back pain doesn't leave you any other choice. Please Todd go peddle your cr@p somewhere else....Notice I was very kind, considering... IP: Logged |
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jdlfmc Senior Veteran  Posts: 520 |
posted 07-22-2003 08:14 AM
drpainkiller!!wow you really had a lot to say and you know I agree with a lot of what you say maybe not so much the way you have said it but hey that is what is so great about these baords we all have the right to speak as we see it and that is what makes these boards and post so very usefull for all of us that are searching for answers and trying to get the support we so desperatly need! I can't and won't attempt to speak for others as I only can really say what I feel!!If you had taken the time to read some of thse post before making such a harsh judgement as calling all drug addicts you will see each case is individual and that we don't always get to chose what we would like to do for our back and ourselves,seeing as we live in such a great soiciety that are medical system chooses what treatments we will have for our back and what we will not have a lot of us don't have the money to just go out and buy us the care we would like to have or the treatment we so deserve as I can assure you had I been given the choice to have had proper treatment 4yrs ago when I fell at work and hurt my back trying to make a living and to pay for the workers comp the company carries and the private ins my husband has I would have choosen then to opt for proper thearpy and treatment so I wouldn't be here today suffering and losing all quality of life,no you see I think you need to check your facts and be a littls more informed before you put every one in this neat little class you seem to have I did not choose to be on medication for 4 yrs it was workers comp and insurance that made those choices for me as I said I don't have the means to buy the treatment that you think we should have as you see what treatment is free and if not properly diagnosied where should I start treatment doing thearpy and exercises that might make a cripple before the ins.companies decide what to do with me I'm sorry I just think you have judged a little harsh about something you are not completlty informed about I can assure you this is not the life I chose this is the life our system is handing out they rather pay for years of meds to keep us working and paying for the benifits they will deny us when we can no longer manage to be a benifit to society .Do you really believe that I chose to sit here at a computer and read about treatments and thearpies that I can't have or afford I can assure I would love to be able to get up walk out that door and go to work even be able to go out and pay the bills H*** I don't even allow myself the thoughts of doing something fun or enjoyable any more I'd just like to not have to depend on my family and others to do all the things I once loved even down to dusting and vacuming or going out to wash the car!!No I've not chose to be this way looking to take the next round of meds so I can get painfree enough to fight WC and ins.companies for my rights!!As I said I agree with a lot of what you said it seems to me the way you feel you would make a great advocote to our goverment to get all of us of the meds and the proper treatment we need and deserve!! I hope you take this in the same sense I took your post informative and I know I probably sound angry I am not nessairly at you but at the so many that think that this is always our choice yes I love america and don't want to start getting climbed all over for this comment but for a country that has so much going on for it we have a poor medical care system and a justice system that can take us tears to get through to fight for our rights and then there again if you don't have money to hire expenseve lawyers you still can't win!!Now if you cans advise me a way to get around all this to get the treatment you think is best and I agree treatment I think would be I will be more then happy to listen in the mean time please don't judge all by a few that may be the way you are suggesting I feel these days that animals have better and more rights then most humans.You see I don't have cancer or a terminal disiese but you know if I did I would surly see an end to all this pain and don't tel me I don't know about terminal illness pain as I cared for both parents through a long and painful end. So as I said you are making judgement it seems to me on things you are not informed on enough to lump all in on class,I pray every day to not be judgemental of others and I would like to thank you for having given me a very important lesson today.I come here as so many others not just for medical advice but for moral support to get thru this nightmare I call my life right now ,I get so sick of hearing we all make our own choices,yes we have choices when your poor they are very limited as you have to have money to fight to win all choices that are available to the those that can afford justice. I'll post this now as my anger is draining and so unbenifiacal when I have much more important things to use my energy for and before I back out of posting what is in my heart. I want you to know I'm not looking to argue I just want you to know that everything is not always so black and white though God knows these past 4yrs I learned many can only see things one way. I truly wish you the very best and hope you can be open-minded enough to see the many sides to chronic pain and living with it!! Linda IP: Logged |
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mokita Senior Veteran Posts: 632 |
posted 07-22-2003 08:22 AM
Todd, Intractable Pain. 2 words. Look them up. Some people don't have the 'option' of exercise as a "CURE". Karen ------------------ IP: Logged |
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scissorhands Member Posts: 38 |
posted 07-22-2003 08:30 AM
Very well spoken Linda...drpainkiller just rubbed me the wrong way so early in the morning after a night with very little sleep. I do agree that exercise does play a important role in back pain but when its impossible for some, then it is impossible...When medication can give you a better way of life then I'm all for it. Most here can't afford drpainkiller's treatment program, so they have to handle their pain management by themselves. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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jdlfmc Senior Veteran Posts: 520 |
posted 07-22-2003 09:59 AM
sissorhands,I'm afraid I let drpainkiller upset me more then I like and I don't mean for it to sound like beign poor is the only reason some people can't get treatment God knows that I know better then that I was speaking of my own case!!I don''t want to offend anyone as I'm not so closed minded as to think everything is so one sided and that everything is about finances as like Karen stated there are more resaons to list then to count,I'm sick of closed minded people judging me without knowing me!!! So please know I'm not out to judge or offend only to state my case!!!!!! Linda IP: Logged |
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scissorhands Member Posts: 38 |
posted 07-22-2003 10:22 AM
Linda: I too let drpainkiller get to me also, you could never offend anyone by speaking your opinion, fiances have to play a role in most everyone's decision when it comes to what treatments are available. Whether you have insurance, W/C and paying out of pocket...Like I said earlier Linda...very well spoken. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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BigJoe777 Member Posts: 46 |
posted 07-22-2003 11:17 AM
Well Todd, just what kind of "exercises" are there to cure discs that are torn open and leaking their gel into the spinal canal and nerve roots? I have tried numerous PT options that ranged from sitting on a hot pad for 15 minutes to doing neck rolls and traction. PT works for some, but for the rest, there are drugs that keep you from going insane from the pain. Sorry you don't agree with that, but I've often wondered if any of the many docs I've seen since my injury had ever really experienced pain of any kind. You answered that question for me. To sit behind your keyboard and condemn the use of drugs is interesting. And to say that exercise will prevent back injuries is even more so. I don't care HOW much you exercise, one wrong move can drop your legs from under you. It doesn't matter if you're fat and lazy, or fit and trim: a disc can turn bad on you for many reasons; some of which are unexplainable. If you research the causes of most back problems, you'd find that to be true. There is NO WAY in this world you can find a way to prevent a back injury. Any Nuerologist will tell you perhaps 75% of ALL people have at least ONE herniated disc in their spine. It's a result of how we progressed through the 20th century. There are many who have disc problems at a young age, yet nothing really shows up until the years go by. Once the injury is there, most times it doesn't "just go away through exercise". The body's reaction to a disc problem is normally to dry it up and create bone spurs to protect it. If you have a vigorous exercise program going while the body is trying to heal the affected area, you stand a REAL good chance of causing yourself serious and possibly irreperable damage. No Todd, exercise is NOT an answer for many of us. The impinged nerve roots, the torn-open discs, the bone spurs; these cannot be removed through a "good exercise program". Pain-killing drugs keep you going while your insurance, or worker's comp ( It ain't pretty out there Todd. And there is no "sure fire" way to avoid what has been dealt to you. To condemn people who are doing the best they can to reclaim life itself is silly and childish, and I think you just came here to pick a fight through reactions. You obviously have never suffered through debilitating pain, for if you had, you'd realize the place drug therapy has in the world of destroyed backs. I've seen people like you before Todd. And you'd be crying like a little baby when you get a disc that blows open and takes your legs or bowells away from you. We here on this board would only smile knowingly at you in your misery begging to go do jumping-jacks to take the pain away! Think about it Todd. IP: Logged |
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drpainkiller Junior Member Posts: 7 |
posted 07-22-2003 11:52 AM
I'm sorry you guys took this the wrong way!!! It's not your fault at all...good lord, I didn't mean that. It's the way the medical system is set up. If you are going to be mad at anyone...blame it on the pharmaceutical companies. Drugs are big business, legal or illegal. It's no ones fault that they are only given medication for they're problem, without given the right treatment to start with. I never meant anyone was a drug addict. I was just trying to point out how ridiculous it is to take chemicals for a mechanical problem. I'm trying to save any person, who JUST STARTED having back to make the right choices and not become brainwashed into thinking that drugs are going to help their back problem. People need to know what the BEST APPROACH is for their problem, before it's too late. IP: Logged |
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drpainkiller Junior Member Posts: 7 |
posted 07-22-2003 12:11 PM
Well sir, you definately took what I said the wrong way. We are not talking about jumping jacks for a blown disc or any back problem. The exercises I'm referring to are very specific to your condition. Disc problems have, and continue to be helped with Mckenzie exersices. Because this helps pump the disc material back into the middle of the disc. When combined with stabilization exercises, and postural exercises you can hopefully take the pressure off the disc and help it heal. I said you need strict supervision when doing any exercises, so of course someone like you, would have to be treated very slowly and carefully, that's what the therapist is trained for. And yes exercise can prevent injury, this is one reason why professional athletes exercise so much. And no, 75% of people do not have herniated discs; 8 out of 10 people will experience back pain in they're life, and 90% of them will get better without any treatment at all. That's why the natural approach, or the drug approach is used, because your medicator is druging you up until the pain goes away. But what about those poor people like you, whose pain doesn't go away and now YOU HAVE TO LIVE ON DRUGS because the pain is too intense. That's why I wrote this so people will look for the physical medicine and not the chemical medicine for their back problems!!!!!!!!!!!
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jdlfmc Senior Veteran Posts: 520 |
posted 07-22-2003 12:52 PM
Todd,Thanks for comming back and apolozing I think if you go back and read your post you will see you left very little room for any other inturpatation then what was precieved by many of the readers here and I truly hope you didn't mean it the way it was wrote,I for one would like to believe that narrow mindness such as we have to deal with on mostly a daily basis wouldn't follow as to one of the few places we feel we can come to for advice and support.If you take the time to read many of the post I believe you will see the people here to all be very broad minded and willing to recieve advice that is constructive we all may vary on our opinions and disagree on many forms of treatment but as a whole we never set out to truly hurt or offend anyone and if the text of your message was taken wrong then for that I am sorry but truly the words and the wording are there to be read as they are written as is often said there is no reality only persception and we all are likley to be misunderstood at some time or another which makes it all the more important to express ourselves as clearly as possible. So I would like to say that if that be the case ,I see you are new to the boards and we always make it a point to welcome newcommers so please I for one am happy to see you have come here as we all can use help and I feel if you were here at the back problem board you must also have a problem that needs attention and if we can be of help that is what we all try to do however we are best able to,I for one am not real fimilar with surgeries and most treatments but once in a while I do have something of some value to say and if not I try to give moral support,more often then not I'm here for advice or comfort after having dealt with many rejections and problems through-out the day!! So once again hopefully we can start over as it seems we got off to a very poor start and none of us here are here to be argumentive or cruel. I don't think there is many if any that don't agree we very much would like to have the lives we once had back and never have to take even so much as an asprin in the future,so if you would like to post and let us know what problems you have had and share with us how you have overcome or are trying to we would love to share our views with you. Linda IP: Logged |
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BigJoe777 Member Posts: 46 |
posted 07-22-2003 01:52 PM
Exercise DOES prevent injury???? This is why so many professional athletes are always hurt?? Your perceived expertise may be good for whatever area you work in, but thinking you have the answer for everyone's woes and pain is as rediculous as your posting. Before you come condemn someone's therapy because it doesn't agree with your thinking, you really ought to have more facts in hand. There are too many know-it-alls in the line of medical care already. If life was a perfect world, medical care would be equal to all and everyone would receive proper care for what ails them. I know about the "McKenzie Exercises", and they are NOT for everyone. Someone like me would probably risk paraylisis just to make you happy. And that brings me to my point: What's it to YOU how some of us utilize pain-killers in the manner they were designed for?? Should I hate red meat too, just because YOU say it might be bad? Opinions are always great. It just depends on how they are presented. You came across as totally against any meds at all, since they are "chemical". Unless you live in a jar, chemicals are part of your daily life despite your best efforts to rid yourself of them. There's a lot of stuff involved with back problems Todd. And it's not all about exercises or drugs. Many of us are in the way we are because of worker's comp. Some have really lousey insurance. And yet others have great insurance. If you want to come against WC and do things your own way, you'll find yourself with MASSIVE medical bills and be in great need of a lawyer. Like that with a few insurance companies too. But if you only feel that exercise is the one true answer, so be it. And yes Todd, roughly 75% of the people out there today really do have one or more herniated discs in their spine. Many have no idea why they have back problems. Try researching and question many nueros or orthapaedic docs. Check the stats from the states WC. Never go on only your own knowledge; you'll miss out on too much doing that. I'm going to go take me some pain-killers now. I don't really care anymore if you like it or not. My quality of life probably isn't as great as yours, but I manage to stay sane and continue to wait on a horribly screwed-up system that does NOT treat you equal by virtue of what insurance you have. Good luck trying to get folks to think like you....... ------------------ IP: Logged |
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BettyJ Member Posts: 34 |
posted 07-22-2003 02:05 PM
I am new to this board, but, have been dealing with this back and buttock pain for over a year...which is not much time considering how long some have had to deal with pain....I agree to a point with some of what you say Todd....there are lots of people who can and do benefit from pt and different therapies....at one time, I did too....but in the last year, I did everything I was told to do...did the therapy at home, etc....even went back to the gym...but in the end...literally...there was a growth..a lipoma or fatty tumor that was most likely the cause of some or all of what I have been going through....no amount of PT in the world was going to excise this from my body....the lipoma is gone now...so now is the time to perhaps try some more therapy to see if I can get things healthy again...but I have to say....without pain meds...to get me through to the point that I can even think of therapy in which I must move on my own...I don't think I could do it....I have refused to take many of the meds that my doctors have wanted to give me, simply because I knew early on they were missing something....I refuse to take neurontin for example for something that I know is muscular...I see where you are coming from with the exercise and healthy living but I have to say that we are not all created equal.....also, I do believe that pharmaceuticals are rich...but who is making them rich? Doctors are...they push certain kinds of meds while ignoring others....as patients...we have to adhere to doctors orders otherwise, the dr loses interest and doesn't want to treat us...I was given a stern talking to by a pain mgmt doctor recently because I could not afford to pay for a functional capacity test...and when I tell her I did not take a certain med...she threatens to stop treating me...I will cut this evil woman lose just as soon as I find another pain mgmt dr in my hmo....but till then I have to put up with that sarcastic holier than thou attitude....there are no easy answers to pain and we just do what we feel we need to do to get by in life..or to even have quality of life....I hope we are not going to be into bashing people because they have to take meds.....or choose to.....betty IP: Logged |
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aroberts Senior Member Posts: 178 |
posted 07-22-2003 02:59 PM
drpainkiller Speaking of rubbing someone the wrong way. I have tried to ccol down before writing this. I don;t know where you get off coming on this board and preaching to us about pain, therapy and exercise. If you haven't been thru what most of us have, then I for one will tell you. Keep your mouth shut. I am a vietnam veteran and have been thru more pain than I want to remember or think about and now for the past 5 years knees and back. I don;t take many pain pills , but when the pain gets to a point you have no other choice. Have you ever tried to walk and the pain is so bad that tears run down your face, but you keep trying. Or have you looked down at your child, knowing he/she wants you to pick them up, but you can't because of the pain or because you just had surgery. How do you explain that. You need to go preach somewhere else. We all know that exercise is the way to go. Sorry folks. Alex ------------------ IP: Logged |
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cardinal Senior Member Posts: 236 |
posted 07-22-2003 04:40 PM
Sorry, but until you've walked in our shoes ist hand I would watch what you say. I always excerised, aerobics, mountain climbing, tennis, running etc. But working a sit down job, 8-10 hr days without a break some days, well it just about killed me. I had to take a pain pill to "mask" the problem. I tried to ignore my pain and go to work. Some days I thought I would die, but I went to work. If I complained I would get nasty looks, so I hid my suffering. I tried to work less hours, but nope my job required ot. Because I am attractive and in good shape nobody believed my suffering. I hide it well. I gave myself to my job and now I am paying the price!!! I would have loved to go for a walk on my lunch hour, but can't had to dress in a professional manner, nylons and heels don't make for a good walk. My computer and telephone in my neck herniated my discs. Sitting those 10 hr days collapsed my L5/s1 that was operated on 1999. I now have arthritis in my spine. I would come home 8pm with full intentions of "excerising" but so much in pain from the day I just collapsed. I woke in morning early to go out for a walk, but I am too stiff in am due to the arthritis!!! Well now that I have given my life away to my job, and no I couldn't change careers, I am limited on skills, plus the money I made was very good, and I am divorced. So now I have to fight to get the benefits that were paid for, disability. My company pd for benefits but dis ins doesn't want to pay! So now I may loose my job and any benefits, all because I gave my best to my job!! at the expense of my health. I would have loved to be outside doing the activities I so love!!! I gave it up because I had to work!! You see my husband walked out on me, left me financially broke and depressed. I was determined to survive, this is the price I pay. So when you think we don't exercise some of us do or have, but now we can, yep, in a wheelchair or walker or with pain pills. PT is great for the athletes who don't have to sit or worry about job security and are over paid!!! Plus now I can't afford P/t the system has fixed that! short term dis only pays me now 60% of my base pay and I made large bonuses in my sales position!! So guess I will pass on the fancy fitness attire and overated pt visits to just trying to survive with pain and not invest in a glorified p/t health spa elite.  IP: Logged |
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BettyJ Member Posts: 34 |
posted 07-22-2003 05:14 PM
Cardinal, if I didn't know better..I would think you were me...well, I did the same...gave more than a hundred percent to the job...and now I have none...the sitting has basically put me in a disability category, but I haven't applied yet....I entered crime reports all day...and when I requested another area to work in...It was decided that I wasn't valuable enough to keep....so they worked their magic till I had to leave on medical leave..and couldn't go back....I would never ever give more than 75 percent to a job if I ever work again....take care of yourself Cardinal...I know where you are coming from... IP: Logged |
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BettyJ Member Posts: 34 |
posted 07-22-2003 05:14 PM
Cardinal, if I didn't know better..I would think you were me...well, I did the same...gave more than a hundred percent to the job...and now I have none...the sitting has basically put me in a disability category, but I haven't applied yet....I entered crime reports all day...and when I requested another area to work in...It was decided that I wasn't valuable enough to keep....so they worked their magic till I had to leave on medical leave..and couldn't go back....I would never ever give more than 75 percent to a job if I ever work again....take care of yourself Cardinal...I know where you are coming from... IP: Logged |
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1nitewriter Member Posts: 59 |
posted 07-22-2003 06:17 PM
docpainkiller, I have been in pain since June of 2000. I have tried months of PT, PM, and about everything else I could imagine or hope would help. Just as I am sure everyone on these boards has done, is doing, or will be doing. When the pain is severe enough and all quality of life slips daily through your fingers, the narcotics and finally surgery are decisions many of us reach. My surgeon has not "pushed" surgery at all, he is willing to work with me and sincerely has tried to help eliminate my pain plus improve my daily living. I have made the decision for the surgery not he. I doubt from reading your message that you have reached this point with severe back pain, or is so, that everything failed including surgery. I am sorry if thats's true, but it is the risk that each one of us has to take. Only the individual knows when it is time to take that risk. -nitewriter IP: Logged |
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mokita Senior Veteran Posts: 632 |
posted 07-23-2003 07:28 AM
Wasn't going to say anymore than I did, but... reading so many posts, I felt inspired  I am a very healthy 40yr old mother. Before my children, I walked, did step-aerobics, played volleyball, bowled and generally lived a healthy life. Ate plenty of fruits/veggies/calcium - just enough meat.... lots and lots of water. I got pregnant. Took VERY good care of myself and my unborn child. Was in labor for 23-1/2 hrs... VOILA Went to docs/pt/kept trying to walk - took care of my baby. Still eating right... doing the gentle exercises prescribed by docs & pt's. I'm still going through everything I was in 2000. So, your theory - exercise will prevent injury - Wrong. Exercise will make it better (the gently mackenzie) - Wrong. Not in my case. And probably not in many more. Your post leaves no room for the reality of many people's lives. Back injuries are all pigeonholed into one tiny, little spot w/ few real people... oh, except the athletes. That's all. Karen IP: Logged |
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jdlfmc Senior Veteran Posts: 520 |
posted 07-23-2003 09:00 AM
drpainkiller,I guess I may have missed it in one of the post I do see you are a PT and I'm sure you have learned a lot thru books and ect. and I almost believe that in your mind you really want to help people but once again I'd like to ask you what injuries,diesiese, or other back problems you have had to give you the right to truly believe you can come here and tell people all this knowledge you have gained thru lessons not life experience if you can tell me otherwise that you have dealt with the injuries,diesiese ect.that the people here are going thru I really don't think you have the knowledge or the first hand experience to say all that you are,I'll tell my PM or any other Dr. the same thing unless they have felt my pain they can not understand they may have the knowledge to diagnosis me and treat me but never ever say you know my pain. When this started with me 4yrs ago I fell at work on a hard cement floor and hit like a ton of bricks I have not had a pain free day since w/meds or otherwise,my point my DR.told me yes I got hurt when I fell but the fact was I could have been the most if healthiest people and have rolled over in bed to turn off the alarm and have torn the disc!!The fact is yes all you say about exercise and healthy diet is all true but the FACT is there is NO guarntees and you make it sound to all of us here in pain for unknown amounts of time that GEE somehow if we had lived differently we wouldn't have hurt ourselves.I really believe that what you are saying here belongs more on a preventive meds post then here where people are having enough to deal with without some one telling us we could have prevented the pain were in if we'd been better people!!Like I said before everyone here has a right to speak as the think and that is what makes these boards so useful I would only like to understand if you truly believe what your saying or are you getting ak kick out of trying to agonize peope!! Linda IP: Logged |
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1nitewriter Member Posts: 59 |
posted 07-24-2003 01:47 AM
Linda, LOL! I know you probably meant that about liking to agonize people seriously, but it struck me as funny. (I loved it) I think he is probably serious in his belief since he is a trained PT. It all sounds good "in the book" and of course makes sense-- I mean it sounds so logical. Only problem is, it all changes when you are the one faced with the injured back. And all of a sudden the theory goes out the window. Isn't that amazing? -nitewriter IP: Logged |
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jdlfmc Senior Veteran Posts: 520 |
posted 07-24-2003 06:21 AM
nitewritter,Oh I agree I think that they really believe in what they are saying but when you are the one living it oh well!!! My house burnt to the ground one Christmas day and I always had said things about if I was in a fire I'd do this or that and after it was over everyone keep saying well why didn't you do this or that and I felt so stupid to think that I had once said the same things and as for that and many other reasons I try not to judge, just like with drpainkill give me a informative answer besides book learning as to how you can judge me and others and i'll be more then happy to listen but until you walk ot try to in my shoes don't tell me what I can and can not do !! I hope to always have a sense of humor for without it I would be a total basket case!! Linda You know the topic is "'m so confused and sad about pain killers"well doesn't that say it all your so conused here is a world full of people trying to explain to you our sides of the situation please be open-minded enough and not so one dimentional in your thinking you have at your hands one of the greatest learning tools you will ever have first hand experience use it to your advantage there is not enough books or classroom lectures that can teach you what there is to learn here!! [This message has been edited by jdlfmc (edited 07-24-2003).] IP: Logged |
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drpainkiller Junior Member Posts: 7 |
posted 07-25-2003 02:10 AM
Hey Linda...that's too bad you never got the right care to begin with for your back! Before you start saying exercise doesn't work and confusing a poor soul who is looking for answers for their back pain you should do your research. There are hundreds if not thousands of studies that prove exercises are the best therapies for muscle and joint problems. Plus I've treated thousands of people with back problems SUCESSFULLY applying the principles I've talked about. If it didn't work for you, you were either not doing the right exercises or you were not doing the exercises right? This is not logic this is a fact!!! I'm sorry about your life situation, but people have to know what to do for themselves instead of or in conjunction with medication. If anyone who reads this says oh I tried exercise and it didn't work. That's a bunch of B...S... It didn't work for you because you had the wrong exercise, you didn't do the exercises right, or you gave up, which is it! And yeah...you have to exercise forever until your dead. You don't use it you loose it! Even if your pain has subsided you still have to exercise. There are no magic treatments out there. Exercise is hard and yes can be painful, but if done right, with the right doctor, and with the right other therapies, is the best and only approach appropriate for any muscle or joint problem. If you already had 5 surgeries well it's a little late for exercises, so this does not apply to you! But there are people who read this that can still be saved. And just because your treatment is not working and you are mad at the world don't hurt other people with your mis-information. IP: Logged |
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dutch400 Member Posts: 53 |
posted 07-25-2003 04:49 AM
Its been a while since I responded to the board but been very busy with Soccer practice, working, redoing my mother shed, painting and being the president of are home owners association. Ho yah I forgot to say, I have had 3 backs operations since the age of 19 for ruptured disks. Yes I did all the things you talked about Todd but they just did not work. Yes I know I did them wrong shame on me. Thank god for some fine Doctors and their cutting skills. Their the reason I can still walk. Yes, each person is different, and no back problem has the same solution for everyone. We all do what we think is right with the information we have. The spine is the most complexes to fix when something goes wrong. So please don’t be here to save us, I’ll go to church if I need it. A lot of people been helped here with just talking to other about what there going through. Lets leave it at that. Ho yah I take 200 mg celebrix every other day I hope its ok. Nico [This message has been edited by dutch400 (edited 07-25-2003).] IP: Logged |
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mokita Senior Veteran Posts: 632 |
posted 07-25-2003 06:53 AM
Todd, what is your 'practical' experience? These are questions any good patient would ask, so I hope you're not offended. 1) What branch of medicine are you in? Is it PT? Sorry if I missed it. 2) How long have you been praticing? 3) How many patients have you treated? 4) How many went on to have surgery? 5) How many are still w/out pain and/or complications from their injury today? 6) How many back problems do you see that are DDD? Of those, how many are age-related? Just curious. It is some kind of big statement that, when referring to exercise, "we either didn't have right exercise, or weren't doing it right". That is pretty inflammatory. Most people here have enough to deal with w/out being told that, in all the docs we've seen, everyone of them is ignorant for not giving us correct excercises.... or, worse, that if the docs DID give us the exercises correctly... we're too stupid to follow directions. If this is NOT how you meant that statement, forgive me. I must of misunderstood. Good luck to you in your practice. Karen [This message has been edited by mokita (edited 07-25-2003).] IP: Logged |
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jdlfmc Senior Veteran Posts: 520 |
posted 07-25-2003 07:25 AM
NICO,Since you don't post often I hope you get back to know I am so happy for you to have gotten your life back and to be doing so well that is the goal of all chronic pain patients and people w/back and spine injuries and disordes!!Great going and keep up the great pleasure of living life to the fullest!! Try to stop in once in a a while to say Hi ,its' people like you that give others the hope we need and the courage to seek a recovery!!! Linda drpainkill, I have gone back and read my post and I have never said that exercise didn't work I only disputed the fact that you say if done right it's a cure all for the back. I'm sorry if I gave the impression that I'm mad at the world that's not true I am mad at a system that chooses the treatment that I may or may not have and I'm angry at the fact that narrow mindness of some play a larger part in my treatment when everyone thinks that thier course of treatment is the only course of rehablitation for me to be well again. I will be the first to admit I don't know much about back injuries and procedures and all that I don't know about what PT would be best for me,you see I never had reason to be so knowlegeabe about these things before and now I have had to put my trust in to the hands of people that are supposed to have the education and training to educate me to the best course of treatment for me!! I have said to you from the beggining tell me what you can to prove that you are so right other then the words you have written you are so free with your words then tell me where I can get the statisics you are talking about tell me where to get the treatment that will help me,I'm not lazy,I'm not looking for a quick fix ,I'm willing to do what I have to do to get my life back if it means PT every day for the rest of my life tell me where do I get this help you are so positive is the CURE,that is all I have questioned,you talk of the proper way and us doing it wrong and all the thousands you have made well ,do I have to come to Calif. are you the only PT that knows this treatment. Now you state that PT is for the muscles and joints okay is PT only going to work for those with that type of problem what do we do with DDD and arthritis and what about the disc tears and fissures?? Please if you are so sure this will work tell me where do I go to get this help ,is my insurance going to cover it ,is WC going to approve it or is it something I can learn for free to do on my own.I'm not so narrow minded that I'm not willing to open my mind to ways of treatment that will help me I just have to know how I never even suggesred I know it all as I can only know what others have to teach me and through others knowlege that is why I'm here on the boards and the web researching how to be a whole person again!! So please tell me where and how do I get this help I've had PT that made me worse is that my fault because I did it wrong or maybe was it the wrong PT. No I've not had 5 surgeries I've not had any or any IDETS all I've had is a lot of test a lot of diagnisies and a whole H*** of a lot of denials from WC and ins.So please tell me how to make me one of those thousands that you made it work for!!!!!!!!!!!! Linda IP: Logged |
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aroberts Senior Member Posts: 178 |
posted 07-25-2003 07:57 AM
Painkiller or whoever you are I read your profile and you say you are a Myofascial Pain Specialist . No where in the definition of a pain specialist does it say your are a PT expert. If you are what you say you are you need to set the record straight on here and quit B----sing the peop-le as you put. I can read and I can look up all the information I want about your job. It's far from what you want people to believe. Sounds to me like you might be one of those assistant want a be's IP: Logged |
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BackWoes Lisa Senior Member Posts: 124 |
posted 07-27-2003 12:13 PM
well I read about this posting on another post and just had to jump in and see for me little self !!! I think Drpainkiller lumped a few patients together kinda like racial profiling. After reading that I got into my yoga pretzel moves, meditated with the smell of foul advice, and overmedicated myself so i would be constipated for a week. If you need a good laugh take someone who hasn't even seen the road you are walking on and listen to their advice. Brb gotta go slalom skiing
L IP: Logged |
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aroberts Senior Member Posts: 178 |
posted 07-27-2003 01:11 PM
BackWoes Lisa LISA, You are a nut and thanks for the good laugh. I really needed that. Alex IP: Logged |
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mokita Senior Veteran Posts: 632 |
posted 07-27-2003 04:47 PM
Lisa - I second that - I needed the laugh Karen [This message has been edited by mokita (edited 07-27-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Michaela Senior Member Posts: 190 |
posted 07-27-2003 07:49 PM
quote:
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Michaela Senior Member Posts: 190 |
posted 07-27-2003 07:54 PM
Hey there Dr.Painkiller, have a question for ya..what kind of exercises do you do for a disk that is blown out with tears and the scar tissue has attached it self to your nerve in your spine??????? and you can hardly walk?????????????? Michaela IP: Logged |
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whitedove555 Member Posts: 60 |
posted 09-10-2003 12:16 PM
Gee , I am new here & confused now ! i " sprained " my back 15 days ago, its not healing so far.my dr gave me a paper of excersises to do for sub-acute back pain...lower back pain. no meds. i dread it but forced myself to begin this morning but i am in pain. now i dont know if i should try this or not. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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Raiza Member Posts: 64 |
posted 09-10-2003 02:41 PM
bbrrrggg! wrong post [This message has been edited by Raiza (edited 09-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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PStewart Junior Member Posts: 6 |
posted 09-10-2003 02:55 PM
An interesting hypothesis that has not been brought up here is that the nerve roots and nervous systems of individuals with chronic back pain/radiculopathy respond differently to damage disks than do the nerves of people without chronic pain. As many have said, a large percentage of people have herniated disks. Yet only a fraction of them (most of us) have severe pain from it. SOme researchers are now pursuing the hypothesis that there is some kind of immune/inflammatory reaction to disk material that occurs in a subset of the population that causes pain. If I look at an MRI of my spine I see only a mild dik bulge but it causes a lot of pain. Others have massive herniations and are asymptomatic. It may well be that the pain reaction IS the problem, well out of proportion to the physical "damage" -- damage which is perhaps that natural result of aging in humans.
Paul IP: Logged |
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Raiza Member Posts: 64 |
posted 09-10-2003 02:59 PM
Todd, How fortunate you are that you don't have back problems. I just want to tell you a little bit of my background: I have always worked out, and always very conscientious that we can injure our backs with the wrong turn or the wrong weights while doing it. I am not even overweight (which they say that weight can be so crucial for the health of your spine). I only weight 110 and I am 5'3". You know how I hurt my back? I was laying down on my belly on air tire on a water skiing trip. We tied up the air tire at the boat, and then we dragged it. Every time we did it, we had heck of fun. One day, I was asking my husband to do it faster and harder (suuurree it was more fun After surgery I have found a lot of relief, yet it is still painful. My NS says it takes time for the nerve to heal after being pinched for so long. Todd, it is easier said than done. For what I read in your posts. You don't know what back problem is. We are all entitle to our opinions. But when we do, we need to research and back it up, so we don't look like fools. Thanks, [This message has been edited by Raiza (edited 09-10-2003).] IP: Logged |
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Look4Answers Newbie Posts: 1 |
posted 09-13-2003 11:29 AM
I think it is really sad that PT's and Doctors know so little about pain.Particularly back pain.I also thinks it's pretty sad that you drpainkiller are that ingnorant or is it pompous!?For one..I hate the way painkillers(the ones that work somewhat) make me feel(nauseous and itchy and cloudy)I have been on most of the stronger hydrocodones....Vic/Norco etc and find that I only take them when approaching extreme pain.PM doc switched me to Kadian....which is a time released morphine cap.It doesn't make me nauseous or itchy.It doesn't relieve all the pain either but it does take the edge off making the pain somewhat bearable.Even so......I still only take it when approaching major pain.I know I am supposed to take it everyday twice a day,but I'm am very aware of the addictive properties of morphine and the need to keep raising the dose if taken that way.I do not want that.It also does not get me high , which I am greatful for. As for the excersizes helping with pain..in some cases such as muscle strain I agree that Mckenzie(?) stretching excersizes do help.In the case of herniated discs,ddd,spurs and subluxation..they don't do squat..and in fact can make matters much worse. I had to see a wc doc and his advice was pt.So I had my doc write an order for pt.( I wonder why my doc hadn't already written an order for pt?)Now I know. Anyway when you're stuck with a wc situation you must try anything and everything to get better(what the insurance c o wants you to do)However when there are things that can be helpful,particularly in proper diagnoses.the ins co stalls authorization if it has a cost to it. Well I went to pt..and was having a hard time.So what does the pt do?He starts me on work hardening.....That was in Feb 03.....have been walking with a cane ever since.Have been waiting for approval for discogram and ct for 4 mos and I am getting worse.I can not walk for any distance before I am in excruciating pain.I believe pt has something to do with this as well as the delays in my treatment.The ins. co most likely has a pt on their staff who belives like you do that all back problem can be remedied with excersize.The ol 'No pain ,no gain ' theory.Probably some just graduated PT so they don't have to pay much,that only has book knowledge and not much practicing/practical experience.If you reall want to be a good and helpful PT.Lose the book knowledge and open your ears and eyes.Listen to what the client is telling you.Watch the client performing your excersises.If the mechanics are wrong.......correct.If they are still wrong...........Cances are there is something wrong in the back that excersize isn't going to help. Yes.....there are some who become drug seekers with addiction problems.And many that aren't.In either case......How dare you look down your nose at someone who is trying to cope with the pain?! I know you said we took what you said wrong.But of course that was just to save your butt out here.You said exactly what was on your mind and I must say you are a very ignorant PT that most likely should choose another profession because you'll most likely cause more than a few people serious harm with your views. IP: Logged |
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janb Newbie Posts: 3 |
posted 09-15-2003 06:55 PM
Just a short reply, can any of you with back problems really exercise and get rid of the pain. I don't know about others but I can't exercise right now. I am lucky to get myself dressed in the morning. The pain medications we are prescribed helps most of us get through the day without tears. If we can barely move how the heck are we supposed to exercise. I am new to this group and I came here for support. Seems to me we all just got criticized for our conditions. I am sure we would all love to be in great shape but we can't help having the back conditions we have. IP: Logged |
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Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46
) dink you around trying to avoid paying a claim. Doctor's offices are so full of hypochondriacs and others who appear to have no reason for being there, YOU who truely NEED a doctor, have to wait weeks and months before the docs can fit you in.
My back's messed up.
you little cheerleader, you 
), I remember I was trying to lift up my legs so they wouldn't hit the water. Like I said, I was laying down on my belly. Well, by lifting up my legs, I put so much strength/pressure on my last disc (L5-S1) that I squeezed the jelly out of it. I started feeling pain a week later. First, it was my right buttock, a couple of days later I was limping, a couple of days later I was crawling. That was August 26 of 2001. Every since then, there is not one day I don't have pain... and I am talking of a excruciating pain. Yes, maybe some days better than others, but it has taken a toll on me, specially emotionally. I did acchupunture, chiropractor, PT, exercises, nothing would help... other way around, it would get it worse, specially the chiropractor. I also tried "The O'connor Technique". Boy, bad idea. What else could I do before going mentally insane?: Take pain killers. Surely, that didn't help either. I just had back surgery on 7/16/2003.