posted 06-21-2003 04:28 AM            

I (female) have had treatment for spider veins and my father for varicose veins by Dr Navarro of the Vein Treatment Center in NY. He is fabulous, honest, health conscious and achieves wonderful aesthetic results.

posted 06-21-2003 02:17 PM            

I wanted to thank you so much for you advice, I just had one more question...do you happen to know what kind of solution he used on your legs? And did you have any side affects? Thanks again :-)

posted 06-22-2003 03:54 PM            

For spider veins he uses the standard solution that even a dermatologist would use - I am afraid that I can not remember what it is called. However, Navarro will use differing concentrations depending on the severity of the vein (i.e. size, pigment). He is a pro, which is what you do not get with a derm. I do not know what he used with my father, but I know he will give you the best result from both a health and aesthetic point of view.

The side effects are mide bruising in my case that went away in a week. But you should really discuss your specific case with him, as evelyone is different.

I have refered many people to him over the years, all very happy!

All the best,

posted 06-23-2003 09:23 AM            

Thank you so much for your kind help! I'll look into it.

Thanks again!!

posted 06-23-2003 04:04 PM            

Thanks again!!

posted 06-25-2003 12:05 AM            

Search this site for both "sclero" and "sclerotherapy." I myself posted much more than you probably want or need to hear in a thread about industry abuses. Just so you know what to watch out for, as one's vanity can be taken advantage of in this area for profit. Don't know if it's prevalent enough that you need to worry, but read up anyway.

posted 06-25-2003 12:06 PM            

Anyway, yes, the substance is *FDA approved. If you've come across any confusion, it is because the manufacturer of the *brand* version (Sotradecyl)decided to stop making it or distributing it in the U.S. Not related to any side effects or problems; they must have just decided it wasn't worth it for some reason. And there is no other brand equivalent available here. So sometimes doctors have gotten in trouble for continuing to use that term, when in reality Sotradecyl isn't available in the U.S. anymore and it is the generic (sodium tetradecyl) they are using.

I have heard some docs do import a brand version from overseas, but that hikes up costs passed on to patients. (And -- suspicious mind here at this point -- how would we even know it was true that's what they're using?) I don't know if the brands are actually any more effective. It may be just that standard debate heard regarding all meds, over brands vs. generics. A matter of opinion.

*I can't recall if perhaps the substance is used by docs in sclerotherapy for what's referred to as an "off-label" use. That is very common with numerous drugs, and means it was found safe by the FDA when tested for a certain purpose; but that other ways of using it were discovered by doctors, and it is now often used for those purposes. This is completely legal, although you may not see the "alternate" use referred to in the manufacturer's or the FDA's literature, only due to the technicality of it having been originally tested for a different application.

There are much better examples than the following, but all that's coming to mind right now is Wellbutrin vs. Zyban. They are the IDENTICAL substance, and doctors will often even prescribe Wellbutrin (tested as an antidepressant) instead of Zyban (tested to quit smoking) because it is available cheaper from pharmacies. This is called prescribing it for an off-label purpose. And the manufacturers of Zyban try to "scare" people into insisting on getting only Zyban, by stating that "Wellbutrin is *NOT* FDA approved for smoking cessation!!!!"....when in reality they are absolutely the same. Other examples (at least early on in their development) might be antihistamines for hives; or Ritalin for ADD. You get the idea.

That other saline solution you were worried about cramping with is, as I may have stated elsewhere, not as strong. So for closing medium to larger veins you should indeed go with a doc using sodium tetradecyl. Saline causes less tissue damage when an injection misses its target, but that is not super common. (I was a statistic, alas.) If you have many injections with it at once, a couple of them probably would cramp. But it passes in seconds. I'm very used to it. So if you ever have someone want to use it on tiny, spider-type veins, I wouldn't worry too much. That may even be safer because the smaller they are, the easier they are to miss.

posted 06-25-2003 06:44 PM            

And unless your type of allergy is extremely rare, if complications were being caused in those with this allergy, I believe that would have become widely known by now. And, that those allergy sufferers would therefore be refused treatment with whichever solution was causing it.

My guess is that if your doc knows of no conflict but still wants to be very conservative, he will inject maybe just one or two small areas as a test.

This is just a "fun fact" (well, not fun exactly...), but when I would get the deep vein injections (more solution volume or concentration, I guess) under ultrasound, that night I would often feel sick like I was coming down with a fever. Chills, muscle aches, even leg swelling once. They told me this is a very uncommon but harmless reaction, usually only seen in old men!! (I am female, by the way!) They gave me painkillers and I continued to have the deep vein injections done for years, just planning in advance to feel sick that night! Who knows if they had a clue what they were dealing with, but no harm seems to have been done!

Now don't go worrying about this too, but at least if it did happen to you, you'd know it probably didn't mean something was going haywire. But mention this to your doc and see if, given your allergy, he wants you to call his service if it happens. (And if he's never heard of my reaction, tell me, I'd be curious about that too! Would make me wonder if something different had been used at those times.) ANYWAY this will SURELY not happen to you; I do believe again I was the exception and not the rule!

posted 06-26-2003 02:14 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by airees_1975:
The doctor I'm planning on going to for the injections doesn't like to do injections in the summer, they want to try an prevent brown lines(staining)from the sun.

---

Yup, smart man, you should definitely wait if you know you don't want to keep your legs covered all summer. I take it as a good sign that he told you this -- his practice will be taking a financial hit over the summer months in order to do the right thing! I take it you will be having multiple treatments. The staining danger per treatment passes in, I think, a few weeks. But if you'll be going back several times, obviously it wouldn't make sense.

I got the staining only from the deep vein injections, sometimes without sun as well. BUT it DOES go away, sometimes in up to a year. Sun could set the stain permanently.

posted 06-26-2003 09:55 AM            

I'll keep you updated on the health boards!

You have a GREAT summer too!

Airees :-)

posted 06-27-2003 09:16 AM            

I just wanted to metion something that you may not have thought about - the use of the birth control pill and varicose veins.

I had my left leg done in 1999 to get rid of a big blue ropey vein that had bothered me to no end not only with it's ugliness, but I was having horrible nights sleeping with the leg throbbing all the time.

After the sclerotherapy, the vein was gone and my leg looks great...feels great too because I suffer no more at night.

In late 2000/early 2001 I started taking estrogen combined pills for birth control. Shortly afterwards, the pains in my leg started up again and I went back to Vein Clinics to find out what was wrong...I was told that there was a slight opening in my deep vein again and I had to go through the treatments all over again. After a few months, I went off the pill not due to my leg, but because I had gained weight and lots of acne which I had experienced when trying other pill formulations in the past.

I was fine for a year, and then this past January I decided to give the pill one more shot by trying the latest "wonder pill" Yasmin for birth control. Again, the pains in my legs started up again so I called vein clinics and was told that varicose vein disease is brought on by estrogen....so their thoughts on the pill is that it worsens the disease. Yasmin itself was also giving me other really bad side effects so I went off of it. The pains in my legs stopped.

Soooooo....I have now been on what is known as a "mini pill" which is a formulation of birth control pill that only contains progestin and no estrogin. So far, so goood...no pains.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that the birth control pill can have an effect on the outcome of the sclerotherapy. IF your currently on the pill, I highly suggest that you get off an estrogin combined formulation and switch to a "mini-pill".

posted 06-27-2003 11:32 AM            

I hope you don't mind, I have a few questions since you have varicose veins just like me. Were the varicose veins on your legs large when they injected them? Did it force any of your other veins to become varicose (to go bad)? I'm going to have it done in the fall time, did you get any reactions from it? And do you think it was definitely worth it? I'm really wondering if I should wait also until I start having children or should I do it now? One last question if you don't mind, when it started to reopen did the vein look worse then before you had it injected again? Sorry for all the qestions, I guess I'm still learning. Thanks!!!!! :-)

posted 06-27-2003 09:49 PM            

The treatments helped with all of that and the blue ropey vein that I couldn't stand is completely gone - my leg is smooth in that area and even toned. it's like it was never even there...and the pains in my leg - totally gone - I think that was just as nice of a symptom as not having to see it anymore.

posted 07-01-2003 09:52 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by airees_1975:
The doctor I'm planning on going to for the injections doesn't like to do injections in the summer, they want to try an prevent brown lines(staining)from the sun.

---

I had mine done in February of last year and got staining that looks alomost as bad as the vein, like a big bruise, and I know my legs didn't see much sun for a few months. I just got some Retin-A/Eldoquin Forte to try to lighten the spots. I'm also about to go for round 2. I like the Dr. a lot (vascular surgeon) and suddenly wondered if the staining could have been his fault...I'll give it another try because I hate the veins!!

posted 07-08-2003 03:37 PM            

I have also heard that staining from vein injections can happen even if you don't go in the sun. I've heard that it actually happens a lot and that going in the sun can also cause staining. These are just some of the reasons why I'm sooooooooo nervous on getting injections. Did you have any other side affects from the injections? Do you thinks it's definitely worth it? I've been debating for the past year on going for it. Was your vein large or small? How many treatments did you need to get rid of one vein? I appreciate all your help!!