posted 06-05-2003 03:44 AM            

I don't know what kind of advise to offer. You said that you are depressed (per the subject title) and that after you moved in you felt unhappy. You said that you have felt guilty. If I felt these feelings and if I were in your shoes, I would try to get out of those shoes as quickly as possible. It is my opinion that what he does is wrong. You, under no circumstances, have to put up with it.

Good luck, I really do hope things go well. I understand that you might love him, but are you IN LOVE with him? He doesn't seem to respect you OR your body.

posted 06-05-2003 11:07 AM            

it sounds like he is trying to control you and sex is a good way to do it for some men.

I dont talk about this much but when I was a teenager I went through something similar to this with sex. and trust me after a while of you saying no he will MAKE it happen thats not something you want to go through. its been like 12 years ago and you never forget. a man does not have the right to treat you this way. and no matter what his background is if he loved you he would respect you and cherrish you a comfort you and NOT treat you this way.

posted 06-06-2003 12:47 AM            

I hold no blame on you, and I do not mean to attempt to make things better, only speak the truth to you and whoever is caring enough to listen and help you through what you thought I put you through

posted 06-06-2003 09:06 AM            

I am very concerned about you. This goes beyond "invasion of privacy". It is really scarey!

To have someone that you should be able to trust lurking around and reading your personal stuff is bad.

Be careful. Stay away from him and if you notice him doing ANYTHING that makes you uncomfortable - go to the police immediately!

Keep us posted and good luck!

posted 06-06-2003 11:26 AM            

With the lurking around in her stuff, that is something we both shared in common, she used to check my e-mails all the time also, she would also log onto my ICQ and read my history...we both shared a problem of lack of trust. I started to check her e-mails again when she cheated on me...and the cheating brought on Lack of trust again...im not giving you people an excuse, simply the reasons why.

I know our "story" sounds very messed up, and in aspects it is...but most of it boils down to lack of communication. Like a few months ago when she needed a new car but couldnet get one cause of her credit, I signed for a car and she co-signed for it and thats the car she is driving, I did that for her because we had talked about how we were both in it for the long run, I checked her e-mails because I was wondering why she has been doing things behind myback if she wanted to be with me. All the sexual stuff I did because she told me she wanted to do that stuff, and some of it we both agreed to do it as a comprimise. But her feelings on that sutff changed, and she didnt tell me about it untill she was already fed up with it.

so just to say, im not going to "hunt" for her. I was simply thinking she wanted to work out our problems, because thats what she told me she wanted to do. I mean, how am I supposed to know that she wanted me out of her life, when after she cheated on me, she came back to me to work things out, few months ago we thought she was pregnant by my she was happy that she might carry my kid, she kept telling me we will get through this and work out as a couple. She let me be the primary signer for her car, she let me spend a few hundred dollors on her to buy her outfits a few weeks ago, she came to me and told me she wants us to go to couples counseling (wich I found a place and I set up everything I needed, all we had to do was set up appointments for her, myself then us, but she never said a word about it after I told her everythng was ready, so if she wanted to go to a counsler why didnt she? I know she has a tight time frame, but shes off every saturday and a few hours between about 2-6pm every day)....I mean where at in all of this was I supposed to think "she hates me"?...I honestly had no idea that was the case. 2 weeks ago I was even going to give her $1,500 to get a divorce and she was ok with me doing that. (the divorce is not from me, she was married when we got together)

And the reason im still posting on these boards is because I just want everyone to know as much as they can, so they can help her, because if people thought I initiate sex while shes sleeping when she never wanted me to, or if you think ive known all along she has wanted me out of her life, or if you dont know that she has been telling me all along she wanted to be with me, then you will think I was forcing her to stay against her own will, and you would think I might try to go "find her"

Im a talker, I like to talk about problems and solve them, Christina does not. When a problem comes up she likes to run from it. I know this and I accept it. Thats why Im not all too supprised that she never told me this. I remember one nght about 1 1/2 months ago, we were in my appartment talking, and she told me how big of a "jack-ass" she was for thinking I was controling and obsesive, that she relized im not, I only love her and im trying my best to make things work, and she explained that due to her childhood and past relationships that she cannot accept love, that she will accept it in a negative way and when someone gets to close to her she will intentionaly cause problems to make them leave...because she fears commitment and love.

True I have been pretty frustrated the past few months, I just didnt know what was going on, she kept telling me she was moving back in with me, we talked about names for our kids, what kind of dog we are going to own, we spent a few nights looking online for apartments, we made plans to get me over my agorophobia, we made plans for us....but she kept going back on them...and I guess I should have been smart enough to see that if she was breaking her promises to me, that mabey things are not like how she says they are, and how she acts they are. so for that I take a lot of the blame, I shouldnt have been so blind to over-see those...but at the same time I wanted nothing more than for us to work out, and I knew she wouldnt string me along would she? I didnt think she would use me.

So I guess bottom line was this, we were dealing with her still fearing me from when I had a temper, her thinking by me doing all the things I did for her and forgiving her for what she has done in the past 7 months that I was obsesed and controling, and there was issues of me still doing sometimes things she changed her mind on...most of them I didnt know she canged her mind on. and there was a huge lack of communication between us, I wish she would have told me right away that she changed her mind on the sexual stuff, and that she didnt want to be with me anymore...cause like I said, how am I to know things are bad, when she tells me we are going to work all of this out.

Kevin

also to just touch on the sex problems we had, I used to do that when we lived together (get frustrated), that was even when we were having sex...I was too much into it and she was too much out of it..im not pointing blame here, becuase this is something we never talked about much, we only made comprimises. http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/Forum116/HTML/002407.html

read that also, that gives you an idea on how unhealthy our sex life was. Yes I was wrong for how I treated it in the past, she has a problem with that, and at that time I didnt understand it, but lately its to the point where she didnt even want to kiss me, and how did I handle that? we made comrpimises where I would "take care of things" with her, so she didnt need to be physicaly involved. when we worked on her sex problems (3 different times) all we did was talk about it, and almost every night for a week after we talked about it, id go into the bedroom and find her completly naked, id get into bed and she would move my leg or crotch onto her vagina, she would start kising me have sex for almost hours...so right there I knew it was a problem that she had,a problem that stemed from something, and a problem she wanted to over come, and I knew I could not get sexualy frustrated with her at all, so like I said along came comprimises that we made, and they were to last untill she was comfortable having sex with me. Also I knew being sexual bothered her, she told me that it sometimes does, but she in no way explained it to me like she did in that post...and again, I just wish she would have told me flat out what was going on, rather than to just beat around the bush and hope that I guessed what was going on...by me having to guess that leads to me doing things I think are ok to do, but she didnt think so.

*edited cause im a horrible typer lol*

posted 06-06-2003 03:05 PM            

I just wanted to tell them the flip side to this, and explain why some of that stuff happened. I do want them to help you. But at the same time I didnt want them to think falsy about me and what happened. Just wanted to tell my side, and explain that some of the things you said I did was something we both wanted and we both comprimised about. I have no reason to check your e-mails anymore, your no longer lying to me about wanting to be in my life. This will be my last post.

I wish you the best

Kevin

and I havent done anything to harrass you...I hevent even made any attempts to contact you whatsoever

posted 06-07-2003 04:02 AM            

To orangenecklace
I can see how you are feeling. I also see that the main part of the problems deal with the distant past. I also see that you did not simply tell him how you felt. It took him snooping into your things in order for him to know what goes on inside of you. From reading both of your parts. I do see he has gotten better. Definitely if he just let you walk away. And gave you no hassles. I also understand that it is not easy to just forgive someone for what they have done to you. Definitely by someone you are with for so long. I respect you for dealing with what you did deal with. But I also see partly that you are attatched to him somwhat. If he is an agoraphobic then I dont see why you would go over there so much if you just wanted him gone.

To derium
I can see how you would be upset. If she is telling you she wants to work on things. But behind your back she dates other men and tells strangers she wants to leave you but she will not tell that to you. I also see that you had and might still have some problems that you need to work on. I think that maybe you tryed to love her too much and expected too much from her. And in turn that made you act irrational and unloving. I give you respect for comforting her with the other man/men she dated. And for your understanding that she wanted to leave.

To you both
If you both ended on the terms you did I think it will be very hard on you both. Even if derium is mad about lies. And orangenecklace is mad about his temper. I still think after 2 years there is still small parts of comfort you both get from eachother. And most likly you will have to talk again because you both might have things that belong to eachother that you both want back. I feel a restraining order at this time might add just more baggage and unwanted stress. If derium does not let you do what you want. And he does start to show up at your work after you asking him not to be there. Then I would look into it. If he is physically abusive at you (99% of abused women will not ever openly admit they got abused) then get a restraining order now. You do not need to be hit by anyone.

My veiw
From the classes I have taken on psychology I think two clear things show. Derium you show classic signs of someone who lost a loved one and you are now afraid of it happening again. And by that you overreact to certain situations. And you feel sometimes if the person who claims to love you does not do cetain things You get worried that they do not care for you. And if they do not tell you they care you feel as if you are losing them already. And that scares you. But that is highly treatable.

And oragnenecklace
I do see you just plain sick of things. But I also see that you did stay with him for over a year when you were unhappy. And you also did go back to him after you were already away from him and dating other/another men/man. So if in fact he does not physically harm you. I see that you had some kinda of childhood/young adult trauma. something that might make you afraid of getting close to someone. Or you want to be close but you do not know how. So you will take the bads (no matter how big or small) and look at those only. Even if there is a reason the bad things happend. For example the sex that you both said when you slept. If you did once tell him that is what you like. Or you did use to be ok with him doing that. But now you almost hate him for it. If that is the case. Then that is also highly treatable.

My recomendation
derium if you do love her. And you do want her happy. You must be willing to do anything she askes for if she ever comes back into your life. Even as a friend you will need to realize that she is in your life because she does care for you. And realize that even if you never talk to her again. She did care for you. She took risks on you. And she did come back to you. So just hang in there. but do not put pressure on her. And stop doing anything she does not like as soon as you find out she does not like it. do not ever assume doing something like that is ok.

To orangenecklace
I recommend that you take some of this time to breath. If this is your only true break from eachother since you met. You will now have a chance to look at everything as a whole. If he is as understanding as he appeared to be. Then if you do want to talk to him just to come to terms or get closer (like after someone dies) even if it is tonight or a year from now. Then you have to make it clear why you are talking to him. If you decide to never talk to him again. Make sure you have all the closer and came to terms with everything that you need. Even if it is just to sit on a park bench and think. Or go to the gym and hit a punching bag for a while.

To you both
I am not telling you I am correct by anything I said. I am telling you from what I have read here. And what I have learned in classes. If in fact the both of you do think you have the problems I said. If you both have tryed to overcome this by yourselves. And it did not work It is time to go to someone professional. Either seperatly or together. I only say together because getting the closer and the final terms that you need is sometimes hard to do. And I have seen it help a lot of people. Many people who hated eachother but they went to counseling just so they woud learn from what happened. So they could prevent it ever happening with their next partner. Or to understand what they truly do want after all.

I do agree with derium. I think that lack of communication was a big issue with you both. If you did in fact tell him it was ok to do some of the stuff he did. And you both did come to a comprimise but that still caused problems. And you did tell him you wanted to work on things. Then that shows the number one problem with the both of you. I dont know if it was only one of you or both who had the problem (normaly one person will try to talk and one will refuse, normaly the guy will close up) but I do see that clearly a problem.

I will be more than happy to talk to either of you. I offer it to orangenecklace first. She took a step to get help and to find someone to confide in. And I am glad that she did. I think if she left with all of this anger it might get in the way of a future relationship. If I do talk to one of you. I will not talk to the other one. Unless both people agree to it. I will simply listen and talk you though this. And help you to heal.

[removed]

-Manny

[This message has been edited by Manny75 (edited 06-07-2003).]

posted 06-07-2003 07:57 AM            

My two cents:
Funny how it takes two sides to 'really' know whats going on. I totally see Kevins side. I mean to do so much for someone who is already married, then to be cheated on as well. Then to be strung along. Seems maybe some using was going on. If i were you Kevin, Id call the bank and do everything possible to get your name off her car note. She is paying it right? If she wants no part of you in her life, then i would think she would have already done that. I would be dead set on this, even if legal routes had to be taken. Granted you may have had some anger issues in the beginning but you worked on that to change it. I say good luck to you and you'll find love when you least expect it. TRUE love.

Dont get me wrong Christina, but had it not been for the snooping, you might just be still going over to see Kevin. I find that each of you have contributed to this dilema. No party is innocent nor more guilty than the next. But two sides do clarify alot.

posted 06-07-2003 07:35 PM            

You said you were afraid to tell him? Well by posting on here you get support from us. And you can say anything you want to him with no worries about him yelling at you or getting upset.

Maybe you two are talking again. Mabey that is why you have not posted. If that is the case don't feel ashamed. Just make sure you both clearly state what you want. And keep in mind all of us here are your friends. We will in no way put you down no matter what you decide. Either if you tell us you moved back with him tonight or if you got a restraining order on him tonight. we are here to support you and help you. Just make sure you tell us. We care about you and hate to see anyone in pain.

Why did you go back to him after you dated someone else? Was it because you wanted to make things work? Do you have a problem with letting someone get close to you? Do you look for reasons to push someone away? Or was he threatening you? And tell us how you felt about him when you first met him. What made you want to move things along so fast?

I know that by how many of us here to help you. We will help and I think it is good that there are so many opinions. People in your situation are sometimes bound to take the first advice given to them. And 9 out of 10 times the person giving you advice only knows one side of the story. So they will always tell you to leave them. See how different the veiws got after both sides came out? That is not a bad thing at all. If you are to get help you need it from people who see both sides. You need to do what you need to do based off of the real reasons not because someone only knows one side. That is why professional help with you both going is so powerful. Im my mind I think you should talk to him on thepone and try to go to get proffesional help. I see you saying your problems and him saying his, but I think I still see a little bit of hope from you, not sure why its just a feeling. If that is not an option then we will talk to you and tell you what we think. I know for certain that by continuing to talk to us you will have one of two things happen. Either you will learn a lot and this will be prevented from happening with your next relationship. Or you both might have a light in your heads turn on and see that even though there was big problems they became smaller and they all stemed from something very simple. I am not completly ruling him out because people do get back together. No matter what happened. I am also not ruling out that you will never talk to him again.It has only been a few days so far. But reguardless of that you still need help and we want to give that to you.

posted 06-08-2003 01:16 AM            

The reason I mentioned counciling to Kevin wasn't necessarily to mend our relationship. I know he needs help, and almost the entire relationship he absolutely REFUSED to see a professional. Whenever he would see one, he'd stop going. Anyway, I mentioned it because I really needed someone to confide in. Someone I could tell everything to... get some input. Same thing I'm doing here. I needed to get it out. I needed someone to know. When I mentioned seeing a councelor, I told him we should go seperately. On different days, or different appointments anyway. I don't recall really saying it was specifically for "us".

posted 06-25-2003 02:20 PM            

I believe that when a person, especially women, start to lose sexual interest in their partner it is because, now this is no big secret, they most likely have interest in someone else. So men, if your woman all of a sudden starts neglect you sexually there just might be another dude in the picture.

This girl shouldn't be worried about this guy harming her.