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    Old 11-05-2009, 01:12 PM   #16
    smclau2000
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NYCman View Post
    I'm not sure if my issues are because of too much acid, or too little, but at the age of 24 years old, it sees like ACV may not be for me.

    Is the HCL taken for the same reason the ACV is taken? If not, I may look into it. What online or real world store has a good deal on the HCL?
    How does one know if they have too much acid or not enough acid? I take my own ph urine. I am always high alkaline. I am 53, is there a test for how much acid is in the stomach?

     
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    Old 11-05-2009, 01:31 PM   #17
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    I like it with some juice or soda.. the ACV actually gives it a refreshing zing. If the ACV is too strong you need more of the juice (I actually use unsweetened koolaid, that I sweeten with Splenda and saccharin to avoid Carbs) I drink a glass in the evening with dinner usually...
    or more if I have gas, although I have been having less gas, certainly since I stopped the omeprazole a few months ago...

    How is it any worse than salad dressing or ketchup, or sweet n sour sauce? maybe if you take too much...

    to another poster: I got some HCL at Vitacost, which has supplements for much less, brand names even... I think I paid about $12 for 250 capsules of 650 mg each.

    I haven't even been using them much as I don't get acid reflux much anymore, and if I do, the Papaya enzyme tabs do the trick for me. These are like little mints with a fruity taste. I think I got a jar of 600 (a serving is 3 tabs) for about $10-14... from Vitacost...

    Last edited by moderator2; 11-05-2009 at 03:17 PM. Reason: please do not post websites except as described in the Posting Policy

     
    Old 07-19-2010, 07:29 AM   #18
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    Hello, Im new to this board, but I thought Id write about my experience with vinegar for treating reflux. I was diagnosed with relatively minor reflux in 1997(age 18), and just let it go for a few yrs. In 2000, I heard about vinegar as a treatment and decided to try it....

    Because I eat salad for at least one meal per day, I use alot of vinegar and olive oil as dressing (I probably DRINK 2 oz of vinegar with each salad). Perhaps it was dumb luck or just placebo, but I have not had issues with reflux discomfort since 2000. Furthermore, just about a month ago, I was out of town and did not have my salad and vinegar meals for about a week, and began to notice GERD discomfort return.

    I notice that my stomach is almost entirely insensitive to food anymore. I can eat spicey, acidic foods and have absolutely no trouble (definitely not the case 10 yrs ago). In fact, I tend to try to eat acidic foods when available since it seems to help my stomach function properly.

     
    Old 07-19-2010, 10:57 AM   #19
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    My doctor recently "prescribed" apple cider vinegar therapy to me for my acid reflux, as I've been on Prevacid for 9 years and have decided that I need to get off of it, in light of the recent news that long term PPI use can contribute to hip and jaw fractures.

    I'm to take 1-2 teaspoons of apple cider vinegar before each meal each day. She told me I could mix it with water if I wanted but that most people just "shoot it" so that's what I do. I just take 1 tsp straight. It's also acceptable to get my dose as salad dressing.

    I started taking ACV about 2 weeks ago. I stopped taking Prevacid 3 days ago. So far I don't have any heartburn and I've only refluxed once. I must admit I haven't been entirely consistent with taking ACV before every meal and I need to try harder to give it a fair shot, but so far I'm pleased with the results and I really want to get off of Prevacid entirely- both for my health, and for my wallet. My insurance does not cover Prevacid (acid reflux was a pre-existing condition that I had before I got this insurance) and Rx Prevacid costs me over $100 a month.

    The key thing is to ensure you are getting raw, unfiltered ACV with "the mother" in it. If it's been pasteurized, it won't work.

    Last edited by EagleRiverDee; 07-19-2010 at 10:58 AM.

     
    Old 07-19-2010, 04:48 PM   #20
    bdrunner79
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    In my opinion, something like vinegar should work the best for acid reflux, because it addresses the problem directly and doesn't just mask the issue like antacids do.

     
    Old 07-19-2010, 09:11 PM   #21
    babycoop
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    honey for acid reflux

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bride527 View Post
    I have been reading that Apple Cider Vinegar is great for reflux.
    Has anyone tried it and does it work? You are supposed to take 2 to 3 tsp. with water and drink it once or twice a day......I am tempted to try it.....I am off my prilisec and have noticed that my symptoms are slight.....Don't want them to return. I felt great while on the Prilisec but don't want to take that forever.....comments? bride527

     
    Old 08-01-2010, 01:43 PM   #22
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    I read that as well, I hope to try it soon. Prilosec has been good to me, but I still have shortness of breath with this GERD crap. I hope it works for you

     
    Old 08-02-2010, 03:05 PM   #23
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    Apple Cider Vinegar is worked for acid reflux. I have acid reflux for many years. I have tried Apple Cider Vinegar the one Raw-Unfiltered Apple Cider Vinegar "With The Mother" at Mother's Market in Huntington Beach City, Ca. I put one table spoon apple cider vinegar in a small cup and a little bit water. Then stir it together and drink. About a few minutes later, I feel better. If you don't want acid reflux come back again so don't eat foods that have a lot of acid.

     
    Old 08-02-2010, 05:31 PM   #24
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    HCl isn't going to work nearly as well as vinegar, which contains the weak acid acetic acid. Acetic acid will actually buffer your stomach acid, with the acetate ion produced. With HCl, there is no buffer. The chloride ion is too weak and will not buffer anything.

     
    Old 08-07-2010, 11:58 PM   #25
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdrunner79 View Post
    HCl isn't going to work nearly as well as vinegar, which contains the weak acid acetic acid. Acetic acid will actually buffer your stomach acid, with the acetate ion produced. With HCl, there is no buffer. The chloride ion is too weak and will not buffer anything.
    You are the first poster who has posed an explanation of why Apple Cider Vinegar may work. Can you expand on what you wrote about the acetic acid buffering the acid in the stomach? I have been trying to find an explanation as to why the apple cider might work. Same question about almonds. Raw almonds seem to settle my stomach.

    Rose

     
    Old 08-08-2010, 10:04 AM   #26
    bdrunner79
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    Sure, I'll do my best

    Well, when you have a weak acid, most of it does not what we call "dissociate" in water. In other words, when you put acetic acid in water, most of it stays acetic acid and does not dissociate into ions.

    However, some of it does, which is why it is considered an acid; a small amount of dissociation takes place. The smaller the amount of dissociation in water, the weaker the acid. HCl on the other hand, is a very strong acid and will dissociate nearly completely in water, with very little actual HCl remaining.

    Acetic acid (the vinegar we are talking about) has the chemical formula:
    CH3COOH.

    Add that to water and you get a very small amount of H3O+ and CH3COO- ions. The second ion I listed with the negative charge is the acetate ion.

    How does this work? When you get acid reflux, there is an overproduction of HCl in the stomach. The HCl is a strong acid and dissociates completely to
    H3O+ and Cl- ions. You CANNOT reform strong acids but you CAN reform weak acids.

    To that end, the acetate ion from the acetic acid will rapidly react with the
    H3O+ ions in your stomach and readily form acetic acid again. Since the offending ions are the H3O+ ions and NOT the actual HCl as explained above, the acetate ion can keep reacting with H3O+ ions to form acetic acid, which is allowed because acetic acid is weak. The Cl- cannot react with H3O+ and reform HCl because Cl- is too weak and you cannot reform a strong acid, which HCl is.

    In summary, the acetate ion reacts with the H3O+ ions from your stomach acid to form acetic acid, thereby reducing the overall acidity in your stomach. Acidity is caused by H3O+ ions, not necessarily the actual acids present in your stomach.

    Keep in mind that there are other weak acids out there that might potentially work. However, vinegar is so readily available and effective that finding another isn't really necessary.

    Your almond question? I don't know off the top of my head but I will look into it.

     
    Old 08-08-2010, 11:12 PM   #27
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bdrunner79 View Post
    Sure, I'll do my best

    Well, when you have a weak acid, most of it does not what we call "dissociate" in water. In other words, when you put acetic acid in water, most of it stays acetic acid and does not dissociate into ions.

    However, some of it does, which is why it is considered an acid; a small amount of dissociation takes place. The smaller the amount of dissociation in water, the weaker the acid. HCl on the other hand, is a very strong acid and will dissociate nearly completely in water, with very little actual HCl remaining.

    Acetic acid (the vinegar we are talking about) has the chemical formula:
    CH3COOH.

    Add that to water and you get a very small amount of H3O+ and CH3COO- ions. The second ion I listed with the negative charge is the acetate ion.

    How does this work? When you get acid reflux, there is an overproduction of HCl in the stomach. The HCl is a strong acid and dissociates completely to
    H3O+ and Cl- ions. You CANNOT reform strong acids but you CAN reform weak acids.

    To that end, the acetate ion from the acetic acid will rapidly react with the
    H3O+ ions in your stomach and readily form acetic acid again. Since the offending ions are the H3O+ ions and NOT the actual HCl as explained above, the acetate ion can keep reacting with H3O+ ions to form acetic acid, which is allowed because acetic acid is weak. The Cl- cannot react with H3O+ and reform HCl because Cl- is too weak and you cannot reform a strong acid, which HCl is.

    In summary, the acetate ion reacts with the H3O+ ions from your stomach acid to form acetic acid, thereby reducing the overall acidity in your stomach. Acidity is caused by H3O+ ions, not necessarily the actual acids present in your stomach.

    Keep in mind that there are other weak acids out there that might potentially work. However, vinegar is so readily available and effective that finding another isn't really necessary.

    Your almond question? I don't know off the top of my head but I will look into it.
    Thank you so much for taking the time to explain this. Not being very savvy in chemistry (have not looked at a chemistry textbook since high school many moons ago), I have been looking for a logical explanation regarding why this old remedy might work. There is not much out there in terms of a scientific explanation. I wonder if the same result can be achieved with diluted lemmon juice. I have found that a glass of water with a bit of lemmon juice works well for me. Not as well as the vinegar, but certainly tastier.

    Given your explanation, any type of vinegar should work. It does not have to be the "organic" type with the mother, etc. Your explanation should also apply to those who find that pickle juice works for them. I am assuming all these substances are weaker acids with a higher PH.

    Thanks again for taking the time. I am going to try to remember this explanation so I can pass it on intelligently when the topic arises again in the future and others ask the question.

    Rose

     
    Old 08-09-2010, 05:05 PM   #28
    bdrunner79
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    Sure no problem at all. I hope it made sense.

    To extrapolate your discussion to an absolute measurement, if you remember from chemistry the measure of dissociation for acids is called the Ka. The negative logarithm is the pKa. The lower the pKa, the stronger the acid. For instance, HCl is -4.

    I looked up some data and found that acetic acid's pKa is 4.75, which is pretty weak. Lemon juice could have citric acid, which has 3 hydrogens to lose vs. 1 hydrogen in acetic acid. So it has 3 chances to lose a hydrogen, and consequently has 3 pKa's, depending on what hydrogen you're talking. The first hydrogen to go has a pKa of 3.13, second is 4.76, and the third is 6.40. Phosphoric acid also has 3 pKa's, of 2.15, 7.20 and 12.35.

    Why is this important you're probably asking, haha. Well, in this narrow case, if you are trying to buffer the HCl, with a pKa of -4, you'd want a weak acid with its first pKa as far away as possible. So acetic acid has 4.75, which is better than 3.13 and 2.15, which fully explains why vinegar works better for you vs. lemon juice. Lemon juice will work, not as well, and certainly tastes better though.

    Here's another thought though. Just because acetic acid is labeled an acid and usually is an acid, we simply label things based on what they behave as in WATER. If you would mix acetic acid with HCl, like you do in your stomach, it is actually acting as a BASE, not an acid. It depends on what else is present. Water is a weaker acid than acetic acid, so acetic acid "gets" to act as an acid. However, when mixed with HCl, HCl is the stronger acid, so acetic acid is the base.

    There's a lot more to it of course, but I think I've given everyone (and myself) a headache at this point in the evening.

    And yes, any vinegar works just fine.

     
    Old 08-09-2010, 06:48 PM   #29
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    Ok, now for the almond question. I found the following compounds in almonds, which may contribute to "easing of the stomach."

    Almonds contain a lot of oils, namely the fatty acids oleic acid, linoleic acid, and palmitic acid. I would suspect these for health benefits and NOT anti-acid properties.

    What I would suspect to be anti-acidic would be these. They also contain many phenolics and flavanoids, which can be a myriad of weak carboxylic acids. An example would be hydrobenzoic acid and other flavanones.

    Furthermore, almonds contain many quercitins and glucopyranosides, as well as catechin, protocatechiuc acid, vanillic acid. Who really knows what these compounds can do for you, but they seem to all be positive compounds.

    Although there isn't much research on the topic, I'm not sure some of these compounds and combinations of might help reduce/buffer stomach acid, perhaps.

    With that all aside, it appears that eating almonds as naturally as possible, skin and all, would be a very good thing.

    It would be something to look further into.

     
    Old 08-10-2010, 08:14 AM   #30
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    Re: Apple Cider Vinegar for reflux

    Thank you again for taking the time to explain all this. I really appreciate it.

    Rose

     
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