It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Acne Message Board

  • To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 02-14-2004, 08:26 AM   #1
    aquarius0121
    Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2004
    Posts: 372
    aquarius0121 HB User
    To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    I have no idea whether this is true or not...

    BUT, think about this...

    Telling people that changing a diet will alleviate the symptoms of acne is just about as bad as telling an overweight person that changing their diet will make them skinny. No matter how much this overwight person wants to be skinny, it's still TOO FREAKIN HARD.

    I'm sure there comes a point in everyone's life when they decide that they really want to change their body, and they have great results by their dedication. And then how many people gain that weight back and then some? Diet is something that people struggle with their entire lives. Look at Oprah... the most successful and wealthy woman in the world, and the biggest challenge in her life is keeping the weight off. She admits, she just can't lay off the sweets, carbs, and fried foods. (and, by the way, her skin looks like crap)

    I really get annoyed when people talk about changing a diet like it's as easy as changing a brand of shampoo. For the majority of the western world, it's just not an option. 90% of us are incapable, INCAPABLE of maintaining a proper diet. It may sound mean, but it's the truth. I think this has a lot to do with mental health in our society, but that's just my opinion.

    I'm someone that cured my acne with prescriptions, and I'm not ashamed to say that I could never alter my diet in the ways that some of you suggested. No matter how much I hated my acne. I think that the majority of people who try to change diets will not be successful, and will end up even more depressed when they realize this.

    COME ON PEOPLE. THERE ARE BETTER WAYS FOR THE MAJORITY OF US.

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 02-14-2004, 04:10 PM   #2
    prometheus
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Posts: 1,034
    prometheus HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    overweight is often another issue completely, because overweight is one of those things that can actually be so strongly genetic that it doesn't matter what they eat, unlike acne.

    Irrelevant though. Whether or not people can change their diet is irrelevant. Clearly it is not an option for some people, especially those who are prone to eating disorders. Even if some people can't, it doesn't justify me not sharing what helped me and others to have completely clear skin without medications...? I don't think accutane, antiobitics, or topicals are an easier way. Antibiotics and topicals were not an easier way for me. This was the easiest way for me.

    I am ready to concede that some people can't change their diet. You are right. I don't understand it. I don't know why. I don't know what the emotional/psychological/addictive reasons are as to why people won't change their diet, or why they perceive that they cannot.

    But clearly, some people can and for some people it is worth it.

    Last edited by prometheus; 02-14-2004 at 04:13 PM.

     
    Old 02-14-2004, 04:28 PM   #3
    aquarius0121
    Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2004
    Posts: 372
    aquarius0121 HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    Prometheus, I hear you're the diet guru around here.

    I'm not saying that people shouldn't share what helped them. My issue rests in people that make it sound easy, or like it's the ONLY way to really cure acne. Because it's not. In fact, changing a diet can be dangerous. Look at poor Dr. Atkins, who died overweight with a heart condition. Makes you think twice before picking up his latest book.

    I had a stint of HORRIBLE cystic acne a few months back, and while I agree that some foods can be linked to breakouts, I wasn't going to stop eating the foods that I liked. Right now, I don't have a pimple on my face, and my diet consists of mainly crappy food. (I'm in college)

    In terms of acne, I'm for the chaos theory. It's random... Some people get acne and eat only the healthiest and most "prometheus-like" food. Others eat like crap and get nothing. Some people respond to medications, some people respond to "diets", some people just plain grow out of this. Can anyone honestly say their results were purely from what they did, and not psychological factors? I've known people who've "willed" their acne away, per say. But there's one thing I've learned from this board... Nobody has answers.

    Last edited by aquarius0121; 02-14-2004 at 04:37 PM.

     
    Old 02-14-2004, 05:24 PM   #4
    prometheus
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Posts: 1,034
    prometheus HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    I'm not a diet guru. Nutrition is almost a passion for me. I just talk about it a lot.

    So you are saying that I should share what helped me but I shouldn't make it sound easy or like it is the only way to really cure acne? Well, unfortunately for this, I happen to believe that it is the only way to really cure acne. This is how I interpret the data. So it comes out in my posts, and I defend what I think to be the case, but I am not here to make points. As far as I'm concerned, people who argue my personal advice, or debate the diet issue are here to make points. I am not here to make points as much as I am here to share what worked for me and others to heal acne completely (and give advice to those who request).

    Quote:
    In fact, changing a diet can be dangerous. Look at poor Dr. Atkins, who died overweight with a heart condition. Makes you think twice before picking up his latest book.
    Lol. There is a lot of controversy surrounding the death of Dr. Atkins. He died of a head injury, and there is debate as to whether he had a heart condition and whether or not his heart condition was caused by the diet he had prior to his switch to a high protein, low carb, diet. However, I personally, absolutely do not advocate these high protein or a low carb fad diet. Even Loren Cordain, who I admire very much for pioneering the acne/diet connection, I disagree on some things with, namely protein consumption. Now, as for dangerous, anything can be dangerous, even if done correctly. Just look at medicine. I do not and wouldn't personally recommend accutane, yet I don't tell people not to share their recommendations for accutane because it is dangerous?

    Quote:
    In terms of acne, I'm for the chaos theory. It's random... Some people get acne and eat only the healthiest and most "prometheus-like" food. Others eat like crap and get nothing. Some people respond to medications, some people respond to "diets", some people just plain grow out of this. Can anyone honestly say their results were purely from what they did, and not psychological factors? I've known people who've "willed" their acne away, per say. But there's one thing I've learned from this board... Nobody has answers.
    I've considered that my recovery could be psychosomatic. This does not seem as plausible a reason as diet, though, as my recovery was gradual and mirrored exactly my changes in diet. More relevant, if it were truly psychosomatic then I should have had a cystic breakout following my three course meal of every food I am sensitive too, because that is what I expected to happen. Also, if it were psychosomatic that wouldn't explain how I would breakout from dairy contamination that I wasn't aware of until after the breakout.

    Last edited by prometheus; 02-14-2004 at 05:50 PM.

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 09:18 AM   #5
    aquarius0121
    Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2004
    Posts: 372
    aquarius0121 HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    Hey I'm all for freedom of speech, and I think it's helpful that everyone share what works for them, but I differ in your opinion that changing diets is the only cure. Maybe I am trying to make a point, and it's this... Nobody can really say that there is a sure way to cure acne. And I think you are trying to make a point, that you believe that there is only one way to cure acne. Maybe you cured YOUR acne this way, but there are plenty of other ways. And it's not an easy way for most people. But Prometheus, I wasn't trying to attack anything you said... there were plenty of other wacky ideas.

    Now some people have actually posted that eating nothing but apples and olive oil, and sticking an enema up their butt will cure acne. Let them share that, but let's not talk about it as if it's something that most people should try.

    Last edited by aquarius0121; 02-15-2004 at 09:19 AM.

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 09:25 AM   #6
    PuppyPuke
    Member
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 75
    PuppyPuke HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    "eating nothing but apples and olive oil, and sticking an enema up their butt will cure acne. "

    i have to try that one

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 09:55 AM   #7
    maxoblivion
    Junior Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 27
    maxoblivion HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    It sometimes seems to me that life is an exercise in pain avoidance. For me, it is much more painful to go through the day with an acne cyst the size of a quarter on my face than to give up foods containing hydrogenated oils. Therefore, I avoid those oils. I believe that most acne sufferers would gladly give up a food that contributes to their condition if only they could believe it would.

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 10:30 AM   #8
    jeff864
    Junior Member
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 27
    jeff864 HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    You don't have to change your whole diet to cure acne just use the proper supplements and your acne will be gone

    1. Ultra Zinc Lozenges from gnc this is the only really effective zinc on the market.
    2. Super Omega Complex
    3. Super B-Complex
    4. Milk thistle
    5. Acidophilus
    6. Grape seed extract
    7. Echinacea
    8. Antioxidant Formula (vit A,C,E,Selenium,Manganese)
    9. Vitamin D

    Also wash face twice a day and use bp after each washing. Use a oil free moisturizer during the day.

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 12:24 PM   #9
    Crossbow
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Join Date: Jan 2004
    Posts: 1,193
    Crossbow HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    The same things will not work for everyone. There are many differnent causes of acne and everyone's biology is different.

    If your acne is aggravated by what you eat, changing your diet will help. If it's aggravated by stress, there are dietary changes you can make to help manage stress better. (See The Joy of Stress by Peter G. Hanson, M.D.) If your problem is hormones, not much besides hormone pills will help.

    The diet I'm on for gluten intolerance is pretty much the same as the diets people here recommend for acne, but it hasn't made the slightest difference in my skin. Birth control pills have been the only thing that's ever helped it long-term. I've known other people whose skin problems are entirely stress-related.
    __________________
    Choose the devil you don't know.

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 12:59 PM   #10
    davidjx
    Junior Member
     
    Join Date: Feb 2004
    Posts: 17
    davidjx HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    Diet does help a lot with acne and it is not that hard to change a bit of your diet. I guess it depends on how bad your acne is related to your diet. For me, diet means a lot. Whenever I eat a lot of chips, or oily foods, I know for sure I will get acne. I seen it happen so many times I am sure that chips and oily foods will give me acne. Try eating a bag of potato chips and the next day or a few hours later, there will be some acne.

    It is not that hard for me to stop eating chips, oily stuff, etc, I simply never buy them and it helps me save a few pennies. The chips don't do me any good other than satifying my carving needs. When I am hungry, I will eat food that makes me not hungry and I stop on the unneeded junk food!

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 02:54 PM   #11
    SweetJade1
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: May 2002
    Posts: 849
    SweetJade1 HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    ewww...as much as I care about you guys (lots and lots), this is why I don't come here as often. I can exhaust myself til I am sick and it still won't change some people's perceptions about what we say and do.

    Everything is a combination of Gene-Environment Interactions. That being said, the differences that we've all noticed among others and amongst ourselves on this board is due to not just a Difference in our Genes, but also a difference in our Environment.

    We all have different opinions of what is Healthy and may eat accordingly (environment). We all are not exposed to the same toxins, water, air, foods, etc in our environment. We all are not sensitive to the same skin care ingredients (environment). Yet no matter what, they will or will not have an impact on us physiologically.

    Of course, what will determine the Environment's effects on us physically, is our Biological Makeup....our Genes. As we grow and age, there are genes that are naturally shutting down or turning on. Depending on our environment, there are genes that we can cause to mutate, to shut down, or to activate. Along with that, it means that we can cause Enzymes, Hormones, Proteins, Fats to become defective, inactive, or overactive.

    So the kicker is, not whether it's the environment or your genes, for they are NOT mutually exclusive, but whether it's the DIFFERENCES in your Environment OR your Genes that is having the biggest role on your health.

    If you look at it that way (anyone getting this?), then we can say that there is a Difference in the genes of acne sufferers, that makes us more susceptible to our environment than it does "normal" people. Yet, there is a Difference in the genes of those with Obesity that makes them more susceptible to their environment. There's a Difference in the genes of those that get Cancer that makes them more susceptible to toxins, among other things, in their environment. See where I'm going here?

    Even the slightest change in ones environment can have the biggest impact on how you develop. Those genes would never be triggered if there wasn't something in our environment, that was triggering it. The exception here, for example, would be Puberty and Pregnancy. These both require that our bodies go through a Temporary State of Insulin Resistance in order for our bodies (or the babies) to grow. However, once that period is over, the body should no longer be Insulin Resistant, but that's not what's happening here.

    What's happening here is that we are STILL consuming Plenty of foods that are very good, extremely good at producing fat and hormones. Puberty will happen wether you eat these foods or not, but not everyone is getting acne are they? No, others gained weight, became obese, or became diabetic and others...."nothing" happened. The differences between these groups of people had to do with not just their genes, but the environment (food, nutrients, toxins, etc).

    Therefore, if you can control your environment as BEST as you can, you can control the way certain genes will behave. That's the prediction and it's been tested over and over in so many ways for so many diseases and disorders and it falls true every time. So the real question is, how do YOU want to control your environment?

    Some ways are Better than others, but of course it does depend on whether your genes or your environment play the BIGGEST role.
    For example, Alcoholism is a Disease that wouldn't exist if there was no alcohol to be addicted to. Even if it's inherited, if they never touch a drop of alcohol, they would never become an alcholic (not that all become addicted). Furthermore, without a doubt I KNOW hormones is what has caused my many hormonal problems, yet changing what I brought from my external environment, internally is all I had to do. See what I'm getting at? Some of these problems would NEVER exist if the very thing that TRIGGERED that Gene, was NEVER present. It just wouldn't happen, the disease would NOT exist! Therefore, while it may be inherited, it does not mean that you will get it.

    Along with that, YES, just like Prometheus, I can say without a doubt that if you change your diet (the right way), you will produce less hormones. I KNOW this not based on just personal experience and testimones, but based on test results and hundreds of Peer Reviewed Scientific, Medical, & Nutritional Studies.

    I know that if you starve, you can reduce those hormones.

    I know that if you stop eating Grains, you can reduce those hormones.

    I know if you "Low Carb", you will reduces those hormones.

    I know that if you consume less animal protein (red meat), you will reduce those hormones.

    I know that if you consume less Dairy you will reduce those hormones

    I know that if you consume less hydrogenated oils, etc you will reduce those hormones.

    I've found all this, 100s upon 100s of hours of research (some of which is wrapped up nicely in a $40 ebook...lol) and I haven't even told you what happens when you INCLUDE those with Allergies and Intolerances! When you focus on the role food plays in these individuals it gets far more complicated, yet in the end, the foods they avoid produce hormones too, and usually they avoid the same foods as the rest of us.


    This is WHY certain diets work better than others. Certain diets are better at Controlling, or PREVENTING rather, hormonal and nutrient imbalances. So I can GUARANTEE that if you alter your diet to a more "Human Diet" as Prometheus calls it, that involves optimal nutrition and consequently hormonal balance, those pesky Hormones (Androgens, IGF-1, Insulin) WILL REDUCE, if not entirely Normalize! Yet, what I can't guarentee is what changes you will see and feel....that's left up to your genes.

    Remember people following the very same/similar diets have had Cancer, Diabetes, PCOS, Acne, Hirsutism, Hyperthyroidism, Rheumatiod Arthritis, ADHD, (Autism), Celiac's Disease, Allergies, Intolerances, Constipation, Crohn's Disease, Irritable Bowel Sydrome, Candida, Menstrual problems, Weight Problems, Benign Prostate Hyperplasia, Heart Disease, etc. I'm not making it up or relying on someone else's word, I've looked these up and more, myself! LOL, so you really think that there are "normal" people out there that are NOT affected by their diet????? A very very tiny percentage probably do exist, but obviously, we are not among that special group.


    That's the COLD hard truth, I'm sorry if people aren't ready to handle it. I am so far from perfect, but I am doing what I currently can. That's all any of us can really do, but to throw our hands up and say that it's IMPOSSIBLE, is wrong. You don't have to be perfect, to see some results. The more results you see, perhaps the more willing one will be to go even further to improve their diets.

    The most brilliant point that someone mentioned was...."but they gained the weight back" and I promise you that if we STOPPED our current healthy dietary habits, we will get the acne, the menstrual cramps, the hair loss, the the weight, the constipation, the headaches, the rashes, etc BACK TOO! I can pretty much guarantee that. Does anyone understand exacty WHY that would happen???

    Last edited by SweetJade1; 02-15-2004 at 03:06 PM.

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 02:55 PM   #12
    SweetJade1
    Senior Veteran
     
    Join Date: May 2002
    Posts: 849
    SweetJade1 HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    ......No matter what you do to treat your chronic health problems (acne is one), you will probably always have to continue with that form of treatment if you wish to control or prevent it. The difference is for those with severe acne, topicals control (beats it back) and oral treatments prevent (stops from occuring). So I firmly believe that if you want the best treatments, you should take something from your environment, and fight it from the inside =)

    Has anyone ever noticed that with every medical treatment protocol, it always mentions eating a good balanced diet and reducing your sugar and fat intake??? That unfortunately is more than a mere suggestion. I've come across enough people with various health problems, but what sticks out the most is that those that truly work on improving their diets, rely on LESS or NO Medication/Supplements. While there's dozens of people I can name off, I myself am proof, Vortex is proof and Prometheus is proof that if you follow a hormonally & nutritionally balanced diet 100%, you'll need No medications or supplements what so ever!


    I've played this game for over decade (16 years) and I know how a good amount of works now. I thought Birth Control would be the answer and it did reduce my Free Testosterone levels by 50% (thanks to it boosting SHBG levels), but my acne only decreased by 50%. I thought adding Spironolactone to the mix would solve everything (blocks 30% of androgens) and well...it reduced my hirsutism and my acne only another 30%. Of course, I was only 80% clear during the Summer...otherwise, I went back to being 60% clear during the Fall/Winter months because that's when our bodies naturally produce even MORE testostrone!

    So 3 years later, I find out that this all due to being either Insulin Resistant or PCOS, they use the same drugs above as well as using Insulin Balancing Drugs (for Diabeties type II). I thought well hey, I'm already underwieght, why should I Low Carb, if I don't need to loose weight (over 2 years ago)???? LOL, I am beyond thankful that I ran into these boards, for I would still have that mentality and I wouldn't be where I am today now.

    Well to answer my own question, you Low Carb, or rather reduce ore eliminate the consumption of foods that are REALLY good at producing Fats and Hormones, because....Duh, they produce they produce Hormones!

    -Carbohydrates = Sugar = Fat = Hormones....it's beautiful story, thats how it supposed to work.

    -BAD Carbohydrates = MORE Sugar = MORE Fat = Insulin Mimicking Hormones = IGF-1 Mimicking Chemicals = a Reduction in vital Hormones (IGFBP-3, IGFBP-2, SHBG) = a Reduction in Nutrient Metabolism (phytic acid, uric acid, oaxlic acid - anti-nutrients) = an Increase in unfavorable Hormones (Insulin, IGF-1, Androgens, DHT Enzymes, DHT) = an Increase in an unfavorable amount of Health Disorders.

    That doesn't even include Dairy (a carb & a protein), certain types of Protein, and Bad Oils, but they generally do what Bad Carbohydrates do. So, I guess the POINT, since that's what we seem to be doing here, is that we eat:

    A) Too Many of these Bad Carbohydrates, etc

    or

    B) We have No business eating these particular foods at all


    I personally only care about what these particular foods do to us internally. I can tell you that the reason Diet worked so well for me and many others, was because we REDUCED our OVERALL Production of these Hormones. Whereas, before my Diet was antagonistic to the prescriptions that I was taking. Sure BC helped bind some Testosterone, and Spironolactone Helped BLOCK some androgens effects, and Avandia helped reduce some of my Insulin Resistance, but because I was STILL eating (plenty of) the foods that were creating the Imbalance, they were NEVER effective enough!

    I would have had to take more medication or higher doses to make them work and I was already pretty high. In fact my doctor wanted to increase my Avandia and we were looking to see if I had other hormonal problems (more medications). So I was at the point of potentially taking 30 pills a day (supplements and meds) and using several skin care products in hopes that would fix everything, but I decided that changing my diet would be easier. Over the years, since I was 12, I had changed my diet 3x before and had failed, but I never thought it was impossible. 18 months ago, I wasn't desperate, but FINALLY knowledgable and realized if this worked, I could not only save money, but regain some freedom I had lost. It took me months before it finally sunk in that my diet was working. I could see it, my menstrual cramps were gone, but because I had also increased my dose of Avandia (4mg), I didn't know what to give credit too. I was afraid to go off of Avandia, because I was in the middle of my breakout period (winter). Yet, for another reason I did.... and nothing bad happened =)

    Oh, and another good example is taking Cholestorol Lowering Drugs. They tell you that you have to watch your diet, even though you are taking a drug that is supposed to do all the work. Usually a Single Drug, can't do all the work and it probably wouldn't be neccessary if the person would watch what they ate. Yet, if the person improves his diet, his cholesterol improves. If the person completely altered his diet, not only would his cholestorol improve, but the medication no longer serves any purpose and thus is no longer needed. =)

    Now I ask, why take medication to block the effects of something, when you can naturally reduce the amount you produce, by altering your diet? I can't guarantee that you can always reduce your sensitivity (to any amount), but I know you can reduce these hormones.

    So, I blame the government, the Food Industry, and our Ancestors for the way we think about food today. Yet, once you become educated, the blame falls upon you. There is no guilt or stress, if you do all that you can, at that time, to improve your dietary circumstances. The more of us that FIGHT by boycotting these fast food places, etc because they offer nothing that we can eat, or DEMAND that they change things, by eating their healthier options, or asking for foods to be prepared a certain way, then one day it won't be "Impossible" to do the right things. For, the Right thing will be all around us...and we'll have no choice ;-)

    Anyway, sorry for this being so long (as usual), but I've been through a myriad of treatments, internal and external, and am open-minded enough to say that there IS more than one way to treat acne, etc. Yet, I also know that for a good percentage of us, if we had done the RIGHT things to begin with, we wouldn't need those other treatments. We wouldnt have the problems in the first place...

    Last edited by SweetJade1; 02-15-2004 at 03:37 PM.

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 04:27 PM   #13
    prometheus
    Inactive
     
    Join Date: Dec 2003
    Posts: 1,034
    prometheus HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    Aquarius,

    "But let's not talk about it as if it's something that most people should try"

    Maybe it worked for them and they think everyone should try it? What's the problem? Let people share their experience, give their advice and you give yours. I'm not going to tell them they shouldn't talk about it as if (insert supposed problem). I'm not supposed to talk about something as if its the only way. I'm not supposed to talk about something as if it is easy. And now I'm not supposed to talk about it as if I think it is something most people should try? Relax a bit. If you think the way you or other people emotionally react is a product of what people say or what they imply or if you think you need to control the way they say things and what they imply in order to feel better then you may very well lead an unfulfilled life.

    If you don't like the fact that I believe and find credence in the idea that acne is caused by diet and can be healed by diet, then tell me it and then get over it.

    Trying to change my opinion is only going to make you unhappy. It is what I believe and I find more reason in that (diet/acne) research than anything else.

    Last edited by prometheus; 02-15-2004 at 04:35 PM.

     
    Old 02-15-2004, 08:50 PM   #14
    CursedSkin
    Senior Member
    (male)
     
    Join Date: Oct 2003
    Location: ?
    Posts: 153
    CursedSkin HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    i feel sorry for people who spend their life denying themselves goodfood..there was no way in hell im eating tofu, veggies and soy milk my whole life...i took some b5 pills and called it a day

    it cleared me up and i can eat whatever i want..just ate a ton of choclates on v-day and i pretty much know im not going to break out from it

    Last edited by CursedSkin; 02-15-2004 at 08:58 PM.

     
    Old 02-16-2004, 07:42 AM   #15
    Neca
    Veteran
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 422
    Neca HB User
    Re: To Those Who Say Changing Diet Cures Acne

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CursedSkin
    i can eat whatever i want..just ate a ton of choclates on v-day and i pretty much know im not going to break out from it
    I wish I was as lucky as you! Ohhh the last time I had chocolate was light years ago, I don't think I can even really remember what it tastes like.

     
    Closed Thread




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:56 AM.





    2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!