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Jamescase5 09-28-2004 08:34 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
SUGAR is my link to acne. If I avoid ALL sugars, I get no acne at all, otherwise, its severe. Now, if I am careful and just "take it easy" I am ok, otherwise its horrible. Even natural sources. And I think doctors are boarderline clueless, since I have had addisons disease for 20 years and no one knew. They said I was a Hypocontrica.

ThePhilosopher 09-28-2004 10:49 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
[QUOTE]i just find it funny when people say the medical field doesn't want to find cures for things, b/c there is so much money to be made w/ the other medicines... if someone came up w/ a cure, they're going to sell it... why??! because they're going to get so damm rich it isn't even funny.......[/QUOTE]

Why would any company or organization looking for profits want to invest the time and money to find the real cause of acne and then a cure? It is already an enormous playing field where any little schmuck of a company can spit out a product and generate hefty revenues. Finding the cause and a cure for diseases is a laborious and extremely expensive process that can take decades before a final product is out on the market. Also consider what would happen if, after all the research and money they've exhausted, they come to the same conclusion many of us have already: Acne is highly affected by the food we consume and it is best to eat healthier, more natural foods. Writing a New York Times Best-Selling book on how to get rid of acne will not come close to compensating them.

Andrew29 09-28-2004 11:29 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
[QUOTE=bulletinboard25]i couldn't disagree with you more when you said that they don't want to give the public a cure for acne.. b/c it is not life threatening, and purely cosmetic..... give me a break..... the fact of the matter is, if there was a cure, the manufacturer of that medicine would make TONS of money, and they would make tons of money for a long time.... b/c acne affects so many people in the world... just b/c one generation is cured, doesn't mean the next generation is cured.. they will have to buy the "cure all" pill too..... i just find it funny when people say the medical field doesn't want to find cures for things, b/c there is so much money to be made w/ the other medicines... if someone came up w/ a cure, they're going to sell it... why??! because they're going to get so damm rich it isn't even funny.......[/QUOTE]

This cure thing is a very interesting topic. Let's take a look at influenza (the flu). Is there a cure? No. Do they know why there is no cure? Yes, because antibiotics don't work against viral infections. Does the public know why there is no cure? Yes, all the information is given to them.

Now, back to acne. Is there a cure? No. Do they know why there is no cure? I don't know. Does the public know why there is no cure? No. Everytime you read something about treating acne, the webpage, pamphlet, magazine, etc.. will always say "there is no cure for acne, but there are many ways to prevent & lessen the severity of it." Not once have I ever seen an article that says "there is no cure for acne because...." Maybe no one has come up with a cure..but you would think that someone would mention what it is they can't solve.

Lawshmo 09-29-2004 11:00 AM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)

Thanks for your quick response. In a moment of inspiration, I went to the store last evening and bought a bunch of low-GL type foods (mostly vegetables) and have committed to follow through with this for two weeks, under the theory being that even if it doesn't help, it really can't hurt. I know it won't be easy -- I haven't really done much in the way of food preparation for several years now (mostly just ate out of a microwave box).

If you don't mind, I'm curious about what you do in terms of daily washing, etc. My acne would probably be categorized as fairly mild to moderate (only occassional cysts, mostly papules and whiteheads, especially prevalent on the forehead). I've been using benzaclin (BPO and clindimcyin) and differin for a while now, and although the differin seemed to be helping with the forehead, I've broken out with a vengeance once again. I have rather sensitive skin, and I'm beginning to think that all of these products, while somewhat efficacious, are themselves contributing to the problem -- 2 steps forward, 2 steps back, if you will.

I've been tempted to just give them up altogether, but the fear of a huge breakout is keeping me from doing so. Perhaps weaning myself off them slowly is the best solution?

Freerider 09-29-2004 01:42 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
I hope you stay inspired throughout the next 2 weeks, as this won't be the easiest thing you've ever done, especially since you're used to eating quick meals from a box. What books did you buy? There are what I consider "good" and "not as good" books on low-GL dieting. For instance, the Atkins diet is a low-GL diet, but last I heard they don't necessarily emphasize natural whole foods and allow processed foods that are highly salted & loaded with preservatives. These types of foods may be troublesome for acne sufferers. They also encourage dairy products, which have properties that can potentially exacerbate acne. Other books don't stress whole unprocessed foods either. Most of what I eat doesn't come in boxes or cans (or bags for the most part). If you want something quick, grab a fruit or veggie or some nuts. When eating anything with a "higher GL" try to eat something with fat at the same time or afterwards. I've found this helpful. I'd encourage you to be strict about this for a couple weeks, just to show yourself that it works. Then you can experiment if your cravings for other foods are "killing" you. You can persevere, I believe it.

I use only gentle washes and nothing medicated. Right now I use a cleanser containing olive oil, coconut oil, lavendar oil, and some other natural stuff (the word "oil" in a product used to scare me to death). I usually only wash my body with this stuff, but have used it on my face since my Purpose face wash was used up. Neither of these cleansers have caused a problem for my complexion. I agree that all that medicine you're taking can negatively contribute to your condition. I think in order to know that the diet works for you, you can only make one change at a time. Either stop your current products right away and don't start the diet for a few weeks, or remain on your products for a few weeks into the diet. I suggest the former, as the diet seems to be most effective when you aren't putting any acne products on your skin or into your body. I donít think it would be good to stop your products and start the diet right away because I've found that my skin did weird things when I stopped a product- either got real good for a spell or broke out real bad. This may create inaccurate results from the dieting.

I'm excited for you. You're taking a step that many donít want to. I love eating like I do so much that I can see myself ever going back to the typical western diet-- even if my acne cleared up for good. Let us know how it goes and how we can help. I know Idealist and SweetJade are good people to get tips from. There are others on this board, too, but I can't think of their username offhand.

Joe_Dude 09-29-2004 01:57 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
Freerider but ive been on this diet thing very long , on and off on and off, the maximum ammout of days was 5 i believe i saw great improvements and to even think that it would have become even better but i just get my teen cravings en start grabbing and eating whatever i can :(:(

Lawshmo 09-29-2004 02:20 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
Thanks again, Freerider.

I ordered the Schwarzbein (sp?) Principle book from ******, which was mentioned earlier in this thread, I believe. I also took a look at the Paleo diet website, which provides a bunch of recipes, as well as several glycemic index/load sites. If you have any other suggestions, please fire away.

For me, the hardest part about the diet, I think, is the amount of additional effort that will be involved in preparation. I'm not a terribly picky eater, and looking over the list of recipes on the Paleo website, I wasn't thinking "Oh my God, what will I eat?" More along the lines of "jeez, I'm going to have to start cooking for myself again. No more 5 minute microwave meals." Actually, the only thing that rather bums me out is getting away from bread/starch products, which I really love.

I acknowledge that you have a good point with respect to not doing the diet and product reduction at the same time, in order to better evaluate the effects of the diet. However, I really do believe that changing my diet for the better, sooner, is a good thing, regardless of the acne situation. And, although I am hopeful, I am relatively sanguine about the effect that this diet will have on my skin. My experience from reading this board is that everyone's condition is different; what works for you may not work for me, and vice versa. But I really believe that becoming a healthier person, in both body and spirit, is the most important thing for me to do at this point, and the low glycemic diet doesn't seem to be particularly "weird" or "dangerous."

On the issue of products, I'm really torn. It's hard to ignore the people who use BP/Retin-A/accutane/etc and do really well. For instance, I think BP in particular has helped me to some degree, but I really do question whether using these things are good for you on a long-term basis (i.e. months and years). My skin seems somewhat oiler than it did before I started using BP on a regular basis, and I'm left wondering if there isn't some connection. Maybe not. Sadly, it seems like the only really good way to find out if a particular regimen/system works is to try it for yourself and see.

Freerider 09-29-2004 02:44 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
You're right, I'm passionate about the diet because it worked for me and I feel great, but there's a chance (very slim, I believe) it may not be as effective for you. The science behind why this diet works makes a lot of sense, though it is still somewhat incomplete. This is why I can't see how it won't at least help your condition significantly.

I've been burnt by acne products, so I will never tell someone to stay on them, even if it is working at the moment. I believe the long-term dangers are considerable for most products, especially accutane. Deep down it just doesn't seem right taking unnatural stuff that alters hormone levels, disrupts normal cell activity/composition, or kills beneficial bacteria. Most acne products do one or a combination of these things. My research on benzoyl peroxide (in proactiv) led to some disturbing findings, as well. I try to stay natural because it makes the most sense to me. Each person has to make that decision for themselves. Doctors and scientists are not necessarily as smart as they are perceived to be (take it from me, a biologist).

bulletinboard25 09-29-2004 03:39 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
i still disagree with you saying that a company isn't going to invest money finding a cure for something like acne.... because its so expensive.... man everything is expensive in creating new medicines.... but thats not saying someone doesn't want to find a cure because the medicine and products now are treating the problem and are a huge money maker..... you don't know what they are doing... people are looking to find cures for everything.. and yes people are investing money in doing this... people are funding research so cures are possible.. why? because the day the "cure" comes back as a definite fix... bang, instant wealth.... especially for something like acne, which affects so many people in the world....

food... find me on the ibs board.... its huge part of our lives... eat organic, natural, and unprocessed, as much as possible.. and it will benefit your overall health... i am not doubting the food-acne link... because i think there is a huge link between food and my stomach..... even when the doctors say its just "stress".. give me a break....

but yes, people out there do want to find cures... not everyone wants to go with the crowd and put out similar products.... because sooner or later those products just don't cut it... thats the way it is with real acne sufferers, who've realized, these products mass produced in large do jack *****.....

Lawshmo 09-29-2004 04:10 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
[QUOTE=Freerider] Doctors and scientists are not necessarily as smart as they are perceived to be (take it from me, a biologist).[/QUOTE]

Indeed. My own view is not that most doctors and scientists are lacking in "smarts," per se, but rather that they human, and as such, a product of their training and experiences. Most people, if they thought about it, would, I think, agree with this. But it's much more comforting to believe that the person treating you is all knowing/all seeing.

What troubles me is that with respect to the diet/acne connection, the message being broadcast by the mainstream medical establishment is that "diet doesn't affect acne," when it appears that a more accurate statement would be "there's no conclusive studies that show a clear connection between diet and acne." From a logical/scientific standpoint, there's a world of difference between those two concepts. Of course, it's difficult to categorically prove a negative, but it seems that the book is still out on this, and I'm sure that there are some doctors/dermatologists that aren't as dismissive of the possibility of a connection, at least in some individuals.

tommyboy73 09-30-2004 09:18 AM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
Diet has a lot to do with acne. With all of the processed crap that passes as food these days it's no wonder people are walking around with severely inflamed skin. I don't know if it was mentioned, but one of the big reasons why Accutane works so well is because it alters a persons insulin resistance.
So it alters the way your body reacts to foods that cause insulin spikes such as refined carbs, sweets, and other types of junk food. You can change your insulin resistance yourself just by controlling your dietand you'd be surprised by how much your skin heals. I recently changed my diet by substituting 3 meals a day with Myoplex meal replacements and eating the other 3 as solid food. I'm totaling maybe 100-200 grams of complex carbs a day and around 30-40 grams of fiber a day. I've been doing this for that last 3 weeks and my skin has cleared dramatically. Not to mention the weighloss which may also help acne as excess fat tends to emit hormones that impact negatively on your body. Now I'm not saying to run out a buy meal replacements, but just changing what and how you eat will allow you to control your acne to some extent. I also found in conjuntion with changing your diet taking 300mg of Alpha lipoic Acid really helps as well as applying Alpha Lipoic Acid creamon your face as it has anti-inflammatory properties

mandersBC 09-30-2004 10:07 AM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
People who get acne are genetically predisposed to suffer from acne. How you eat (and drink), your exercise levels, your stress levels, and what you do to handle the acne will all contribute to its severity. Everyone is unique...someone with acne who eats a pound of cheese may break out like crazy, while another individual with acne eats a pound of cheese and nothing happens. Everyone has unique body chemistries and will react differently to internal and external treatment. Derm's [U]are[/U] out to make money...they may help some people, but not truly to the extent that they could. I know that when I've seen a derm, he/she has simply looked at my face and wrote a perscription. What is going on inside (where the acne starts) is completely ignored. Ideally, there should be a be assessments of body chemistry so every case of acne is treated individually, and not with a cookie-cutter solution.

tommyboy73 09-30-2004 02:54 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
I agree, derms are out to make money. When I went to the derm about a year ago she looked at my face and insisted I needed accutane. I'm 31 years old and she's telling me I need accutane, and my acne wasn't anywhere near severe. I told her I wouldn't take it and she asked why. I listed all the bad side effects from it and told her I had no desire to experience any of them. I also told her of a few side effects she didn't know about, but she dismissed them and my worries like I didn't know anything. That is until I told her I work in the pharm industry and work with 2 former Roche employees that oversaw the accutance account so they knew things that the brochure doesn't tell you. She insisted accutane was the way to go. Then she says something along the lines that she doesn't get any kickback from them for writing the script, which is utter BS becasue they track the script numbers and can tell exactly who wrote it, and at a cost of $8000 per course (unless you have insurance), there is probably a nice fat incentive to prescribe accutane. I instead got a script for Azelex which in combination with Alph Lipoic Acid cream and a better diet has worked wonders

idealist 09-30-2004 10:43 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
regarding doctors not being as smart...
i concur. i don't think that they are ALL idiots, but really, it's such an oversaturated field these days. also i agree that they are human. like i mentioned before, i know a handful of med students and doctors and they eat A LOT of processed food.

regarding a cure for acne...
i think most acne meds out there are attempts at cures, but they are treating the SYMPTOM, not the ROOT CAUSE of the problem. a real , long term cure would be treating the CAUSE...which i've come to believe is poor quality, unhealhty food (fast/processed food, sugar, etc). it's like saying a cure to high blood pressure is high bp meds, keep eating all the crap you want. is that truly a cure? you keep ingesting all this stuff that raises your bp, meanwhile the symptom of high bp is kept in check soley because of the meds. another example, which i've posted in a previous post: you have a rash because of an allergy to a detergent. your doc gives you cream for the rash. the rash goes away but the ALLERGEN IS STILL THERE. the cream is simply MASKING the SYMPTOM. a cure would be to remove the ALLERGEN, thereby getting to the root CAUSE.

cherone 10-10-2004 06:28 PM

Re: Food & acne (why dermatologists don't tell the truth)
I know this for a fact. I have had increasingly worse acne each year. Started light in teens, worse in late teens early 20s, then severe by 30s. I don't think this view is cynical at is very factual if you know anyone in the healthcare managment business and/or studied case studies. Once your liver is full of toxins whether it be from food, environmental pollution, etc. all the organs are affected. The skin is the largest organ. I am sure this is why adult acne is so common now...cummulative damage.

The vast majority of our diseases are caused by toxins. The correlation is easy to see when we are increasingly getting more diseased, all these new names invented for diseases, and we are also an increasingly more polluted society. As a sufferer of multiple autoimmune diseases, I am a testiment to what good food and bad food can do to your body. Good food got rid of my tremors and paralysis to name two.

What I eat can make or break my acne. When I did parasite cleanses and ate only organic, no gluten, no sugars, flours, etc. I had clear skin for months. After about a year of not sticking to that, I am back to a serious case of acne so I am now doing more cleanses and eating really healthy again. What you eat affects every organ in your body. Why would skin be any different? Interesting how holistic doctors understood this. Part of it is a money making issue and part of it is the poor education doctors get in med school. By the way, the majority of med schools are funded by drug companies. That should tell you something. My experience with docs in general is gross incompetance. I learn more on the internet from fellow patients and free advice sites like this.

By the way, my current acne bout came only after 2 months of having all kinds of intestinal and other issues so I definitely know it is an internal thing. Anyone ever use Oregano oil? I am now using capsules internally and the oil on my skin. Burns my skin like H3ll but seems to dry up the boils and cysts and give a good texture to my skin. I use it all over at night before bed, and then in the morning only on the specific zits after washing and before makeup application. :blob_fire

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