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    Old 12-29-2004, 11:13 PM   #136
    Paracelsus
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    Lemon Juice, Green Tea, metabolism, and interactions...

    Here is the current model used to understand how a few subatances affect your metabolism. I am a strong believer in the fatty acid balance theory of acne. Summary/short version at th end:

    Citric acid increases the activity of acetyl-CoA carboxylase (ACC), an enzyme transforming acetyl-CoA into
    malonyl-CoA 8), which suggests the possibility that the administration of citric acid may promote the
    synthesis of malonyl-CoA (Fig. 2). Malonyl-CoA inhibits the uptake of fatty acids into mitochondria
    because malonyl-CoA strongly inhibits carnitine-palmitoyltransferase I in mitochondria 8).
    On the other hand, pyruvate dehydrogenase complex (PDC) in mitochondria is known to be
    inactivated under conditions in which the fatty acid oxidation is promoted and activated when the
    oxidation is inhibited 9). Therefore, it is expected that when synthesis of malonyl-CoA is promoted, the
    activity of PDC will increase, resulting in that oxidation of pyruvic acid and lactic acid is promoted. In
    addition, citric acid is an inhibitor of phosphofructokinase, a regulating enzyme in the glycolytic
    pathway (Fig. 2), and therefore inhibits the breakdown of glucose. These two effects of citric acid may
    be responsible for the promotion of the breakdown of lactic acid after administration of citric acid.

    Hydroxycitric Acid: reported avility to block ATP-citratelyse thus reducing citrate buildup which will inturn inhibit ACC leading to more fat burning as the malyonol-CoA concentration will drop. The result of inibiting ACC is increased Acetyl-Coa

    Fibrates: The most common and well-researched negative side effect seems to be renal deposits of acytel-CoA. Acytel-CoA is a necessary product of fat oxidation. As I have discussed in previous articles, it is the balance of acytel-CoA that determines nutrient usage. The body needs acytel-CoA to burn fat in the first place, as acytel-CoA must join with a long chain fatty acid to form an acyal-fatty acid complex that can then be actively transported into the mitochondria by CPT. Unfortunately however, extra actyel-CoA is a prime target for ACC. ACC will transform that excess acytel-CoA into malonyl-CoA, which actually inhibits CPT. To complicate things even further, one of the primary pathways for acytel-CoA metabolism is the lipogenesis pathway. In humans this is not such a problem in terms of fat storage, however when it’s activated it can have negative consequences, particularly for our brains.
    Hydroxycitric Acid: reported avility to block ATP-citratelyse thus reducing citrate buildup which will inturn inhibit ACC leading to more fat burning as the malyonol-CoA concentration will drop. The result of inibiting ACC is increased Acetyl-Coa

    Green Tea: when there is a large amount of acytel-CoA, the excess gets shuttled down the lipogenesis pathway. Along the way this excess increases the activity of fatty acid synthase (FAS). Increased FAS activity is known to increase appetite primarily by lowering production of MSH and POMC in the Arcuate Nucleus and Lateral Hypothalamus. the result of excess actyel-CoA production—can be countered by an FAS inhibitor. There are several FAS inhibitors available on the market. High doses of hydroxycitrate (10g per day) or green tea extract are two such options. High quality hydroxycitrate is available in bulk at reasonable prices. I personally have used 3g four times per day with much success when it comes to appetite suppression. However, individual response and mileage may vary. Green tea extract is also a potent inhibitor of FAS, and there are numerous green tea extracts available on the market. It is mainly the ECG component that seems to be the strong FAS inhibitor, so I would look for an extract that has a large proportion of ECG.

    Short Version: Citric acid disposes Acetyl-Coa, decreases acne. Hydroxycitric acid increases Acetyl-Coa, ??? acne. Fibrates increase Acetyl-CoA, and i think has little effect on acne but not sure. Green tea disposes Acetyl-CoA, decreases acne.

    Furthermore, pantothenic acid increases Acetyl-Coa, decreases acne.

    It's late, but the Acetyl-CoA levels are less important. It seems like the common bond is the beta-oxidation. Malonyl-CoA is something that pops up in all of these things... i'm just not smart enough to see what it is.

     
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    Old 12-30-2004, 02:33 AM   #137
    Ratman
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    Umm, it's pretty late and I didn't get ANY of that. I'll have to look at it again tomorrow or wait for someone to clear it up even more for me. All the big words indicate that it probably make some sense though.

    All I know is that I'm 2 weeks into drinking 2 lemons a day and the bad breakout that seemed to start when I started the lemon thing is just now starting to go away. My skin is really really dry though. I'm pretty sure it's not from the lemons, since my skin started to get pretty dry before I started with the lemons, but could the lemons be drying out my skin even more?
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    Old 12-30-2004, 06:59 PM   #138
    Paracelsus
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ratman
    Umm, it's pretty late and I didn't get ANY of that. I'll have to look at it again tomorrow or wait for someone to clear it up even more for me. All the big words indicate that it probably make some sense though.

    All I know is that I'm 2 weeks into drinking 2 lemons a day and the bad breakout that seemed to start when I started the lemon thing is just now starting to go away. My skin is really really dry though. I'm pretty sure it's not from the lemons, since my skin started to get pretty dry before I started with the lemons, but could the lemons be drying out my skin even more?
    Actually, it doesn't make intuitive sense to me... that is why I posted it. They all do have a common thread, though.

    What is of note is that both pantothenic and lemon juice seem to have an "initial breakout" and then remission. This is probably incorrectly attributed to "pushing out the magical evil demons from within,"-- in other words, I think that this common thread is what causes initial breakout and then remission. Oddly, though not suprisingly, I'm quite dumbfounded -

     
    Old 12-30-2004, 08:48 PM   #139
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    Be careful with the acid. That much is not good for you at all.

     
    Old 12-31-2004, 06:22 AM   #140
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    What can the citric acid do to me? I heard that it's neutralized when it gets into my system.
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    Old 01-01-2005, 09:32 PM   #141
    AccutAven
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    Yes the lemon juice has an alkalinic effect on the body, which is the opposite to acidic. I've read that it's the only fruit which has an alkalinic effect on the body - the others are acidic.

     
    Old 01-02-2005, 07:33 AM   #142
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    well i just came back from being away for a month and I have to say that the lemons really let me down. I had a brutal breakout while on the lemons that lasted for quite some time. The thing that I found helps my skin the most is the sun. I was in the dominican republic for the last two weeks and being there while washing my skin daily wiht a new cleanser was amazing for my skin. It cleared up completely and I currently only have a couple active zits and i'm praying it stays that way. But ya...I am off of the lemons now and have been for almost one month and myskin is better now than it has been in 2 months when i was on the lemons. maybe I am the exception to the rule.

     
    Old 01-04-2005, 03:31 PM   #143
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    I have been drinking a glass of fresh lemon juice everyday for over a year now(one lemon a day), due to Yoga, and it doesn't do **** for my acne.

     
    Old 01-04-2005, 05:34 PM   #144
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    I started doing the lemon thing around the 20th of December. My face got really bad until January 1st. Now it's really clearing up. I go through short cycles where I'll break out for 5 days or so and then clear up for 4 or 5 days, so it might not even be the lemons. What I can say is that the lemons seemed to break the cycle by making me break out for roughly twice as long as I usually do........so they seemed to have some kind of effect, hopefully a cleansing effect. But I'm definitely not getting my hopes up about my current stage of clearness that is on it's 4th day right now. That's about all I can say at this point.
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    Old 01-05-2005, 02:08 AM   #145
    AccutAven
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    Hi Ratman, what do you mean when you say "the lemons seemed to break the cycle by making me break out for roughly twice as long as I usually do"?

    Are you saying that the lemons are making your acne twice as bad by shortening the time in between breakouts? Or are you saying that the breakouts are more intense and last twice as long? (ie a breakout would formerly take you 3 days to clear and now it takes a week to clear cos it's an intense breakout).

    Cheers,
    AA

     
    Old 01-05-2005, 08:37 AM   #146
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    Hello. I haven't read the whole thread but I was wondering if 1 lemon a day is enough to get benefits from it? Is it okay to drink lemon juice every other day, and the day I'm not drinking it grapefruit juice? And won't it be horrible on your teeth or do I have to try to swallow it without it touching them wont it affect them this way because I really dont feel like messing my teeth up.

     
    Old 01-05-2005, 06:09 PM   #147
    AccutAven
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    Hi, I wouldn't recommend it every second day. I would suggest half a lemon a day is much better because it softens the purging effect which can prevent breakouts.

    If you wash your mouth or clean your teeth after drinking lemon juice this should avoid alleviate any concerns.

    AA

     
    Old 01-06-2005, 04:41 AM   #148
    Ratman
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    What I'm saying is that I usually break out for about 5 days. My skin is red and irritated and I wake up with new zits for about 5 days and then one day I'll wake up and my face won't be irritated and I won't get any new zits for 3 or 4 days. And that cycle usually repeats itself over and over. When I started this lemon thing, I broke out for about 10 days straight, and it was pretty bad. Then I started clearing up, and now I'm on my 5th or 6th day of being clear and instead of a normal breakout, I'm just seeing little surface zits. Nothing too bad has happened yet. So what I'm saying is that since I started the lemon thing, the cycle has been altered. My breakout lasted longer than usual, but so far my clear period is lasting longer than usual. I'm not getting my hopes up though, because my face is a little worse today than it was yesterday. But, it didn't just change dramatically from good to bad overnight like it usually does when a clear period ends.
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    Old 01-06-2005, 06:18 AM   #149
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    i'm a dentist so feel qualified to comment about the teeth thing. definitely DO NOT brush your teeth after lemon juice! this is like taking a scouring pad to your teeth! basically what happens is the lemon acid dissolves the crystals of enamel from your teeth (demineralisation) but they still remain in contact with your teeth. after about an hour the ions in your saliva have worked to remineralise the crystals back into your tooth structure. so brushing them away means your teeth never get the chance to remineralise. this is ok short term but long term slowly your teeth will erode away. same goes for when you puke. best thing you can do is rinse gently with a fluoride mouthwash and take the lemon juice with food (when you eat your teeth become slightly demineralised anyway, the less times in a day this happens the better) also use a straw and get it right to the back of your mouth to minimise any tooth contact with the lemon juice! i'm doing the lemon juice thing too and believe the straw thing is definitely the way forward!

     
    Old 01-07-2005, 06:04 AM   #150
    Ratman
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    Re: Lemon Juice!

    I'm beginning to break out again. I'm thinking the lemons aren't really doing anything. What does everyone else who is currently doing this think so far?
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