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SweetJade1 09-05-2003 01:01 PM

Hmm, you know what, everyone keeps assuming all my post mentions is topicals but read correctly you will notice that it's main point was to show treatments that control/prevent ANDROGEN and DHT effects in our system ;-)

Therefore, DIET is covered, because it does act as a control/preventative method for our hormones. However, THANK YOU for mentioning more specifics about it. I try not to favor any particular solution because I know that while topicals and most oral drugs failed me and a Gluten-Free Diet didn't, I know that for others, oral medications did the trick.

I prefer the most natural methods IF possible to cure myself and most definately there's something special about probiotics if you've been overdosing on Antibiotics (ALL of us) and an anti-yeast diet are a good way to go. While some feel that they cleared because they got rid of the candida in their system, I still wonder if it may not ALSO be due to the fact that they just lowered a HUGE amount of sugar entering their system, thus lowering their androgen production and DHT conversion. Well as long as it works for us right? ;-)

Take care

blondiebiker 09-05-2003 02:32 PM

I recognized everything you posted about. My point is that balancing your body is not blocking or hampering any production of anything it is simply pure and simple balance. By discussing blocking this, and blocking that you are not curing the main problem which is simply finding a natural balance and it does take time (took me a whole year) but once you find it you will never need another pill, or topical again, nor natural remedies..just pure and simple exercise, clean water and a good diet. Everything you take internally or externally is unbalancing your body and when you quit taking you will be back to square one.
Not knocking your in depth reviews of everything just letting all know that you will never "cure" acne until you cure what it is you are putting in your body that is creating toxic effects...period, and for most it is simply how they are processing foods..thus why starting with a nutritionist vs. derm might find you happier and additive, topical, "acne" cure hype..free..



Big_Wreck 09-05-2003 04:48 PM

That idea idea about having a bad diet (which i do not) and beer drinking, which do but i don't over do it, and toxins coming through the skin would make sense, except that I have worked out and exercised for years and it never seemed to impact my breakouts much. i would like to link this to diet in some way, but i really don;t think this is a diet issue, thanx for your reply though.

R

SweetJade1 09-05-2003 06:36 PM

He he, hey Blondie would you mind posting your diet for those on the board? Also if you could put what you said under some diet/sugar threads on this board that would help us get the word out more. =)

Big,
I have not forgotten about you, just answering posts that don't require links, etc. About your diet though, we all thought we ate "healthy" in terms of carbohydrates, even when we eliminated the junk food. However, most of us realized that sugar is in EVERYTHING, yes even some proteins, and as such one food item COULD be problematic for you, or in general it could just be that you need some form of a Low Carb Diet. If interested, mind posting what you usually eat for us?

Thanks =)

Entimann 09-05-2003 06:42 PM

does anyone know if b6 causes an initial breakout?

Big_Wreck 09-05-2003 07:24 PM

Well i think with a reply like that, you are still being a doubter here Sweetjade. Sorry just buggin ya, but really....Why when i refrain from sex my acne is so well under control regardless of what i eat or any other physical activity i do but not for that? Diet does not seem to even make sense here. Wheres the connection that can make some sense??

R

SweetJade1 09-05-2003 07:31 PM

Hey Big,
OK, this is what I've found out so far. Various neurotransmitters, neuro-peptides, and hormones are involved in sexual activity. For the male these would include Nitric Oxide, Dopamine, Epinepherine, Norepinephrine, and Serotonin. Now, for men, the hormones involved are: Testosterone, Cortisol, Prolactin, Oxytocin, and Pheromones.

I will have to dig deeper, but just from that list above Testosterone would be the obvious culprit. Granted, Cortisol, Norepinerphrine and Epinephrine could also be causing your woes, but it would also be due to ADDITIONAL production of Testosterone by the Adrenal Gland in order to produce those hormones (more about that later). I do know that for females Prolactin levels are vital to hormonal balance, if it is too high, they can experience menstrual irregularites, acne, etc. However, I don't know offhand how that would apply to you, other than to say that it also INCREASES your testosterone levels. ;-)

So from what I've mentioned above here's what I'm thinking:

1. You make TOO much testosterone during sex, unlike other males (that also make lots during sex). Same treatments apply as mentioned above.

2. You happen to be overly sensitive to the "normal" amount of testosterone in your system. This is actually the cause for most people's acne, and you can use androgen/dht inhibitors/balancers such as Diet, Supplements or medications to help you.

3. Most acne sufferers are lacking some sort of enzyme and perhaps you are lacking an enzyme neccessary in the production of Cortisol. In your case it would be called Non-Classical Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia or Late-Onset Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia. What this means is that you body is TRYING to produce cortisol, but is unable to so it trys even HARDER and as a result other steriod hormones that the the Adrenal Gland produces are OVERPRODUCED. IF this is your problem, in your case, it may not show itself until periods of GREAT stress...

4. You may be lacking aromatase enzymes. Males and females have enzymes that convert various steriod hormones into OTHER steroid hormones as the body sees fit (great huh?). There are enzymes that convert Testosterone into DHT (super testosterone), Progesterone into Female hormones (Estrogens) or one of the Male Hormones (Androgens), and there's Aromatase that converts Testosterone into Estrodial (estrogen). If this is your problem, then you just need to alter your diet or if you like to use supplements, buy those that will aromatize more testosterone for you.

Now if the last one is your problem, at the moment I don't know of any aromatizing herbs or supplements. I'm familiar with DHT inhibitors that also just happen to be Aromatase inhibitors. LOL, do not ask me why or how, but for some reason despite the fact that these Anti-androgens WORK, some of them also stop what testosterone you are still producing from turning into estrogen. So MAYBE that is why, so that your system doesn't loose too much testosterone.

Then again, if that's so, they why is it that some males talk of getty puffy chests, he he a side effect that I NEVER got on BC or Spironolactone? ;-) Of course that would explain why some men lost desire, because they lack a certain amount of Testostrone neccessary for the ability, and the same applies for why women lack desire as well.

So that's all for now, I'll try and look up things that aromatize, but I'm guessing it's not too different from what's already been mentioned on this board. I tell you, having a Balanced diet or taking supplements that contain the vital nutrients neccessary (doesn't a good diet) is really the ANSWER to so many health/hormonal problems. I just keep running into the same multi-faceted supplements and diets for sooo many "cures"

Night

[This message has been edited by SweetJade1 (edited 09-05-2003).]

Big_Wreck 09-05-2003 07:35 PM

Well sorry, when i said i do not eat unhealthy, i meant compared to "normal" people. obviously I am probably the worst eater on earth compared to you...lol.j/k...but i would say my diet is high in proteins and not as high in carbs. I am a meat eater i will admit to that, although i never fry food at all. i eat salad and fruits a fair amount also, salad almost every day. i eat quite alot of rice, and i know what yur gonna say already about that..lol but i do not eat much for junk food or drink alot of soda or anything. i am certainly open to diets, i did do an anti candida diet about 1 year ago for close to 2 months, didn't do anything for my acne though. i thought it would make some difference at least. but i guess if its only a few foods doing it....who knows....i just really don't feel a diet can help me unless you can make a connection on how my diet is related to the major cause. thanx

R

Big_Wreck 09-05-2003 07:39 PM

Sorry sweetjade we must be posting at the same time, just as i finished my post yours was there. Your information makes alot of sense. i am gonna reread it, i guess the question is where to go from here for me.

thanx for all that
R


Don't worry about me losing my drive sweetjade, maybe your explaination is why its so high...lol....So if it can keep my acne under control i am sure i will still function just fine ;) thanx again.
[This message has been edited by Big_Wreck (edited 09-05-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Big_Wreck (edited 09-05-2003).]

blondiebiker 09-05-2003 08:43 PM

I follow the glycemic index..more then not. It is easily found in a search engine. Very comparible to "diabetic" diet following to keep insulin levels more stable and the body reacts to that by running more smoothly. When I say "diet" I don't mean it in any other terminolgy but your daily intakes, no special diet, just learning to regulate your body and your insulin levels. It isn't so much "low carb" but "good carbs" and rice is of course fine...although brown rices would be a better choice then white, but I am not against any certain foods or ways of eating. I am merely suggesting altering a few things to see if it helps. I have a BS in exercise science and nutrition and left school like most in my field..anti atkins, follow the RDA, etc., but as the years pass and I listen, watch and train others my mind is more open. Like I said earlier I use myself as a guinea pig and have found the glycemic index to be most helpful.
Anyway..canteloupe is a good fruit to help with skin, tomatoes are also good (even though high in carbs), green peppers, red peppers, onions..also great. I stay away from yellow veggies and starches..
One other thing of interest maybe I have found in my studies..the good ole USA is one of the only countries injecting their foods with steroids..most countries will not even allow our meats to be imported because of this...I am a strong believer that these additions to our meats is also having negative effects on acne, since the US ranks higher with acne issues then any other country..could be the higher carb diets as well...but something to think about...
I don't say to stay away from any food...but just see if balancing your insulin won't help cure your issues..and everyone processes and uses food differently so there is not "set" way to do it..thus self experiment to see what works for you.
a typical day for me is as follows:
breakfast (hate it, but do it): 4oz cran or orange juice and whey protein powder..and of course coffee..lol..
lunch a salad with chicken, or teriyaki on rice with veggies..once in awhile a 1/2 sandwich or a small burger...
dinner..fish, chicken, or steak and veggies..and thai food sometimes.
I use olive oil to cook most my meats.
I stop drinking coffee by lunch and switch to water for the rest of the day, but may have a diet soda with dinner..
a lot of meds, topicals etc. are robbing your skin of the natural oils it is producing..by limiting the oil/fats in your diet as well the body ends up producing more and it is a cycle...often many acne prone people aren't getting enough oils and fats to help their body function.
coffee is a known stimuli that increases many negative responses and is a "horrible" thing to have when you have acne, but I am addicted...lol so I compensate by drinking extra water and ensuring balance in my insulin levels to help level out the bad with good...
just like beer...okay want a couple beers then with your beer have a good protein and veggie dinner...have no other carbs or starches..it is a trade off...
if you study the index and learn how it works you will find what works for you...no special cure or plan, it is your own thing you incorporate into your lifestyle...
insulin levels is what rules your hormone production...period.
stress, fight or flight responses also release andrenalines that will affect levels also, thus why "relaxation" is also key...exercise is a big helper in that so you are probably great there, but I still think a good "oxygenating" 5 minute breathing exercise would help too..
I do not claim to know it all, but after all my years studying the human body and actually experimenting on myself I do know that it is easily found how the body works or what does this or that, but truley you will find your answer in insulin balancing...and that is accomplished through diet...and no most don't get all of their daily minerals and vitamins in a good diet thus why a multi is a good idea...
I take a multi every monring..I also take 500mg of flax seed oil...having enough oils and fats will help your body stop overproducing...also why a good moisturizer after cleansing instead of drying ointments will help keep acne away...
oh and soaps..very important...dove is great...acne bars simply dry your skin and then more oils(sebum) is produced...try wahing with dove, using aveeno moisturizers (the oatmeal is naturally calming to the skin), and a warm shower not hot...
and again..everyone is different...but if you study other countries nutrition, older times before all the additives(which btw many are allergic to)...you might find something that works for you.
peace

SweetJade1 09-07-2003 07:09 PM

Hey,
Here's some more information for those interested in finding out ways to get those much needed answers. Obviously, [b]we don't all respond the same [/b]to our hormones. Some people's bodies do other things in response to the hormones that give us acne. Some people actually have NORMAL hormonal levels, but their receptors are [b]extra sensitive [/b]to certain hormones. Whereas, some of us have [b]HIGHER[/b] than normal hormones and/or extra sensitive receptors and our bodies respond accordingly. Perhaps that is why certain diets work better for certain cases. Indeed, that could be why people have gone on diets like a [b]Low Fat diet (fat stores hormones and certain ones increase insulin resistance)[/b] or a [b]Low Carb - No Grain diet (increases insulin sensitivity)[/b] and found that their acne improved, if not cleared 100%! While others discovered that all they needed were some enzymes or liver cleanses and things were perfect for them. =)

I believe that acne can be due to a combination of [b]Environmental[/b](dioxin & other pesticides, toxins, dirty telephones, etc), [b]External[/b] (bad skincare, haircare, etc), and/or [b]Internal[/b] factors. For me personally, my formula was Environmental-5%, External-15%, and Internal-80%. Since this is already so long, I'll just go over one way you could go about discovering if yours is mainly internal:

1. If your problems persist, your BEST bet is to go to a doctor.
a. Think about what your symptoms are. Think about any other problems that you have (vision, dental, stomach, energy, wieght, headaches, muscular, etc), for sometimes these symptoms may be related to a specific disorder. Also look back on your famiy's history and see if they can recall any problems or specifc disorders. Do they have anything similar to what you have?

b. If you have some idea as to what the problem is than seeing a specialist, such as an Endocrinologist, Gastroenterologist, Allergist, or Naturopath would be to your advantage.


2. You need to find out if you have an allergy, intolerance, a hormonal imbalance, or some nutrient defiency by having the appropriate tests run. Sometimes the tiniest thing really can make [b]that[/b] much of a difference.

3. Based on those results you'll be prescribed maybe Accutane, Birth Control, an Anti-Androgen, or some other specific drug. Or maybe you'll be advised to take a certain vitamin or to change your diet.

4. There's usually more than one way to treat a problem, so if the above fails, you should try a different doctor, formulation or technique.
a. Many vitamins and supplements "cure" acne, but which ones are right one for you?

b. The same should be asked of herbs. These have medicinal properties and as such, you should pick an herb that will do what you need it to do, based on your [u]specific[/u] internal problem. In other words, find an herb that has the same suggested use as the prescription drug your doctor put you on and see if it will help or if you can replace the drug with it. For example, Spironolactone's equivalent would be Saw Palmetto or BetaSitosterol.

c. Diet (headache anyone?) There are between 30 - 50 special diets out there and if we included our own unique diets, the list would be even longer. NOT all of these are designed to cure acne, but SOME of them have proven to be far more successful than [b]anything[/b] else! Once again this is very much so depends on how [b]YOUR[/b] body works, what it needs, and what your specific internal problem is. The most successful diets that I'm aware of are:

[b]Non-Processed/Refined Diet[/b]-- General Health, Insulin-Hormonal Imbalance

[b]Organic/Whole Foods Diet[/b]--General Health, Allergies, Intolerances, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities

[b]Vegetarian/Vegan Diet[/b]--General Health, Intolerances, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities

[b]Low Fat Diet[/b]- General Health, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities

[b]Low Carbohydrate/Sugar Diet[/b]--General Health, Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance

[b]Mucous Free Diet[/b]-- Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance

[b]Gluten-Free Diet[/b]--Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Neurological problems, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance

[b]No Grain Diet[/b]-- Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Neurological problems, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance

[b]Paleolithic Diet[/b]--General Health, Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance, Neurological Problems, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities

[b]"Evil" Lectin Free Diet[/b]--Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Neurological problems, Insulin-Hormonal imbalance

[b]Elimination Diet[/b]--(Ex: Wheat, Diary, Iodine, Spicy Foods, MSG, Pork, etc) Allergies, Intolerance, Autoimmune Disease, Toxin/Chemical/Hormone Sensitivities

These are just generalized catagories, but there are PLENTY of books or websites, that use the above in some sort of dietary program, such as the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD). You just have to figure out [b]which[/b] applies to you and what program fits your lifestyle and is the [b]MOST effective[/b] for [b]you[/b]. Yes, sometimes that does requres a bit of "trial and error", so just because one diet didn't work for you, it doesn't mean that NONE of them will.

5. Are there any specific foods or drinks you find that you consume the most?
6. Are you drinking enough water to flush toxins, hydrate, increase energy?
7. Are you getting enough sleep to decrease stress, balance hormones, improve healing?
8. Are you exercising to improve circulation, decrease stress, regulate hormones, etc?

9. Have you tried other alternative methods such as
a. Therapy--Counseling, EFT, Hypnotherapy
b. Detoxing--Colon Cleanses, Fasting, Parasite Cleanses, etc
c. Eastern Medicine-- Accupuncture, Ayurveda, etc

I personally didn't really go through the method like that, but it resembles what I learned and experimented with during the past 10 years. Personally, so far Soda, Cherries, and Gluten Grains (or all grains) break me out.

Good luck

SweetJade1 09-07-2003 07:13 PM

Entimann,
I honestly don't know if B6 causes an intial breakout. However, I do believe it is suggested that in order to prevent side effects of taking more of one B Vitamin, take a B Complex. Now I have heard of people breaking out from taking B12, which I believe can be remedied by taking the vitamins in a complex. I dont know, is that right Blondie?

HTH =)

blondiebiker 09-09-2003 11:57 PM

b12 normally only causes breakouts if too much is taken or toxicity would be the correct term..shouldn't be ingesting more then 2000mg of b vitamins...
b6 can create problems as it needs b2 to be level to work properly in the system...
so in theory yes b taken as a "family" and not individually would function better...
anything ya put in your bod is easily found in searches...just type in for example "b vitamins toxicity levels" or something similar and you will find your info, as you can with most things.....read pros, cons and decide for yourself...
will say...b's too much for too long can create neurological damage...so do research what you are taking regardless...even if a doc prescribes......you might be surprised what the real test studies show on certain drugs..
peace

wicketglen7 09-10-2003 04:23 PM

SweetJade, please tell me what type of diet worked for you. Are you doing the gluten free diet? So that means you just don't eat bread, but brown rice and pasta is okay?

blondie, how much does a nutritionist or natropaht cost? I don't have insurance so I would be paying the cost from my pocket, which isn't really a big deal. I know it cost me 40 dollars or so everytime I see a doctor so is it about the same to see a nutrisionist or natorpath person?
thanks

blondiebiker 09-12-2003 12:16 AM

really depends what are of the country you are in..but just ask your normal doctor if they know of any good ones in the area...or if you have a university type hospital often you can see them more affordably...
hope that helped


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