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    Old 11-13-2001, 01:21 PM   #1
    cyclone
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    Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    I am another one of those that has been trying old guy's experiment and I am looking for additional guidance. I am a 40 year old male that has been suffering (and I do mean suffering) from cystic acne since I was about 15. I have been on all the stuff the derms give to include 3 cycles of accutane (the last one being about 14 years ago). I have contemplated suicide numerous times, all because of acne. Probably the only thing keeping me holding on is the fact that I have a beautiful and wonderful wife and three children (if it wasn't for acne, I would have an absolutely wonderful life but acne has made it hard to face the day sometimes).

    Anyway, last spring I started taking B5 with hopes that it would help. I started supplementing this with saw palmetto (SP) which is signficant as I would notice a difference if I quit taking the SP. Anyway, I was starting to gradually get worse again (not to mention the red marks I never experienced before) until I finally decided to try Oldguy's experiment. Come tomorrow, I will have followed his advice for three weeks which means taking 100mg Zinc, 250mcg selenim, and 500mg niacinamide for breakfast; 250mg BHT for lunch; and 250 mg BHT and 600mg NAC for supper. For the first two weeks I was doing pretty well and did not get one new cysts, just some pimples, some of which were in places I did not usually get (a few on the chest and some on the face in unusual areas for me). Anyway, no cysts meant my life had become a whole lot happier. Unfortunately I have experienced a relapse in the last week and I am afraid I am going back to my old self and my wife has encourage me to write onto the board (I was hoping to wait and be able to report great results). My questions are this:

    Did anyone else doing this have a relapse or did they just respond or not respond to this treatment? If a relapse, did it finally get better?

    Should I be contemplating taking more BHT (keeping in mind that my philosophy has always been to take as little medicine as necessary) or should I stay the course a while longer?

    Would adding back Saw Palmetto possibly help?

    Are there any other supplements besides B5 and Vitamin C that should not be taken while taking BHT? Specifically thinking of Vitaming E and copper (thinking of copper because of the high dosage of zinc). I have also been wanting to try melatonin to see if it would help me sleep longer than 5- 6 hours before awakening.

    What about eating foods that are high in Vitamin C like strawberries? Should this be avoided? I am trying to make sure I eat a high fat, low carb diet, but I like my fruits (I am trying to eat the ones that are suppose to be better for you...I think).

    On a side note, has anyone experienced any negative acne reactions from nuts or peanuts? I am beginning to think that it may affect me like caffeine does (major cause of cyctic acne for me...when I started drinking coffee, I was getting cysts as large as walnuts until I finally realized the cause and stopped caffeine altogether).

    Sorry for the long post and I can certainly understand if no one has any advice to give here. Would love to hear what Oldguy has to say, but I understand how busy he is.

     
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    Old 11-13-2001, 05:30 PM   #2
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    Hello Cyclone, I've been on Oldguy's regimen for over three months now. I did experience a minor initial breakout the first week, but after that I just kept gettting clearer and have had no relapses. I did find out I still can't have milk or cheese, but I can have things made from cream, like butter, cream cheese and sour cream. Also, I only eat raw nuts and avoid peanuts and cashews since those are not really nuts, they are legumes. I do eat plenty of fruit as well, I just try not to eat it around the time I am taking the BHT in case any vitamin C in the fruit would interfere with the BHT. I think Oldguy said vitamin C was alright at a different time of day.

    I did see one post where Oldguy recommended that a woman increase her intake of BHT to 1 gram per day if she was having trouble decreasing her junk food intake. As far as the other supplements you mention, you would have to wait for Oldguy's input as I have no idea!

    I hope you find this helpful and that you achieve the success you deserve after so many years of fighting this miserable curse.

    Blessings,
    Rachel

     
    Old 11-13-2001, 09:10 PM   #3
    arkie6
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    I can't remember exactly, but didn't Oldguy's experiment also call for some diet modification? If you are doing the pills and vitamins only and not addressing the diet aspects, this might be the cause for the relapse. Seems like I remember (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that it was important to cut out the junk food (stuff loaded with sugar and/or white flour) and the unhealthy highly polyunsaturated vegetable oils and partially hydrogenated vegetable oils which are high in trans fatty acids. And partially hydrogenated fats are found in just about all processed foods (read the labels) and just about any fast food that is deep fried (yes, this means french fries). This, to me, is just as important if not more so than the pills.

    Alan

     
    Old 11-14-2001, 06:46 AM   #4
    cyclone
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    Thanks for your responses as every little bit of advice helps. Just to clarify things, I have been pretty much on a whole foods diet for about 5-6 months, meaning I eat very little processed food. I do occasionally cheat as I do eat pizza with my kids and I do drink beer occasionally, neither of which seems to affect me much. Since I have been using Oldguy's experiment, I have been taking this a little further and trying to watch my intake of carbohydrates even of the whole food kind (limiting my intake of raw fruit, oatmeal, etc). I am now trying to keep a log of what I eat to see if there is anything that I can pinpoint as making the symptoms worse.

     
    Old 11-14-2001, 09:48 AM   #5
    ruffeo
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    Cyclone,

    I've been on Oldguy's regimen for 7 weeks, 2 days.

    Yes, I started the regimen at the same dosage as yourself, 250mg BHT for lunch, another 250mg BHT for dinner, an NAC pill with the BHT pill at dinner and zinc and selenium. After about the third week I noticed the affects it had on my face weakening, so I sent an email to Oldguy, he told me some people take BHT anywhere from 500mg-2400mg daily. (It's also stated in the BHT manual that taking up to 2400mg is as safe as table salt.

    I am now up to anywhere from 1500mg-2000mg a day. I vary the BHT intake depending on how much acne I have. For example, if I notice that i have gained more cyst on my face, I'll bump my dosage for the day by 500mg, and if I notice that the cyst have somewhat began to deminish, I lower the BHT intake by 500mg. Play around with the BHT intake, to fit your needs, it's a safe drug. Similar to other drugs...your body takes what it needs and expels the rest from the body when you use the urinal.

    Oldguy also advised that I should take an NAC pill once everyday as opposed to taking one daily. i believe he advises this now because it'll lower the HDL stuff in the blood, sorry for my lack of technical jargon. He stated before that the NAC helps by cleaning the BHT out of your system, it helps disolve the BHT plaque that lines the intestines, which could very also cause the BHT to work longer if you take NAC every other day.

    I also asked Oldguy if it was alright to eat foods rich in vitimin C, such foods as spagetti, tomatoe sauce is super high in vitimin C, in which he replied, that it's O.K. to eat foods like that before or after taking BHT. In fact I drink juices, even orange juice right after I take the BHT pills and still do not notice a change.

    As for other vitimins to take while on this regimen, I can't really suggest any, BHT itself is doing the trick for me, infact on some days I forget to take my selenium and zinc. The BHT is the "miracle" worker here, it's the one which does the job.

    Copper is O.K. to add into your regimen, in fact, it's nessecary to balence out the zinc you're taking. Unless of course you're taking zinc which already contains copper in it. I believe the zinc : copper ratio was 8 : 1 ? I've forgotten, it's been awhile since I've taken zinc and copper together. So for every 80mg of zinc, take 10mg of copper.

    Oldguy also suggest to take milk with the BHT which helps soften the effect BHT has on your stomach, which I do often, in fact this is probably the first time in my life where I can drink milk and not breakout. I do not follow Oldguy's recommended diet in which we are suppose to eat foods which contain a certain amount of this and that. I am however more selfconscience about what I eat, I too try to avoid certain foods and eat more veggies and fruits. But, I always end up screwing up my diet by eating that late night twinkie or cheese cake....ummm cheese cake.....**drools**

    Oh and as for the melatonin, I've never taken it myself as a supplement, but, I do know there are more "natural" ways to obtain melatonin into your diet. Milk and Turkey contain melatonin! I usually drink a glass of milk before bed.

    Well, Cyclone..you've gone this far, might as well finish the race man <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif">

    Good luck to you and I hope my advice has helped.<p>[This message has been edited by ruffeo (edited 11-14-2001).]

     
    Old 11-14-2001, 01:58 PM   #6
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    While I don't follow OldGuy's regimen, I felt that I needed to reply when I read about your question with peanuts. It's kindof eerie because I was going to post that question anyway. As a vegetarian, I am always trying to find ways to get in protein, one of which was natural peanut butter. I would have it just about everyday on a Wasa crisp (rather than bread) and while I didn't break out tremendously, I would still get a few here and there. Then just recently, I've not had peanut butter quite as much (for no particular reason) and my face seems clearer for the past few days. I don't know if it's a coincidence or what. Has anyone else experienced this? It wasn't like I was getting cysts, but just a few pimples.

     
    Old 11-15-2001, 06:55 PM   #7
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    regarding the peanut butter... i'm a big, big fan of it myself and, for a time, i ate Laura Scudder's natural, chunky pb pretty much every day. i'm not sure what brand you are using but if salt is an ingredient (as it very often is), that could be causing a problem with your acne. also, keep in mind that peanut butter is a very oily food - this might have some affect on the face. personally, it seems to cause some irritation with my acne which is a major bummer!

    as for peanuts, in general, much of what i've read suggests that they're less than stellar for your skin. i've noticed that my skin reacts rather poorly to a packaged nut-mix that i occassionally buy at the grocery store which contains no oils or sugars but does have a higher ratio of peanuts to other nuts. however, when i put together nut mix at home i use very small quantities of peanuts (just for a touch of flavor) and that does not seem to have an adverse affect on my face. so, take from that what you will <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif">

    one last note... i too am following the bht regimen. i'm a couple of days past my first week and i've now added a second bht capusle. my daily intake is as follows:

    *morning w/ water...
    flaxseed oil (capsule) - 1000mg
    niacinamide (tablet) - 250mg
    manganese (tablet) - 10mg
    selenium (tablet) - 200mcg
    zinc (tablet) - 60mg
    *evening (after meals) w/ water...
    bht (two capsules) - 500mg
    nac (capsule) - 600mg

    i am very excited to say that after a week or so, i am highly optimistic about my chances at clear skin. it already looks and feels clearer - though there's been no drastic changes. the redness has subsuded a bit and all of my cysts seem to be fading away. i don't want to get too carried away and jinx the whole thing but i am very pleased thusfar. i've experienced no light-headedness or stomach discomfort. i did see a breif surge of barely visible whiteheads in areas that i typically have no problems with but that seems to be a non-issue as well. i'll post again in a week about my progress.

    what do you all think about pasta? it doesn't seem like the worst thing you could eat but i realize that it is a starch and i put on parmesan cheese for flavoring... still, it's a good food for me to eat in terms of its caloric content (i'm trying to put on weight) and i'm rather fond of it.... your thoughts about its affect on the skin? and, taking it a step further - if you've been taking the bht for a while, do you find that you have a bit more freedom with your diet now?

     
    Old 11-17-2001, 10:30 AM   #8
    ruffeo
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    I do feel like I have been given a chance to eat anything and everything whenever I want to, knowing that the BHT will hopefully disolve whatever fats I take into my body...but that's usually how I break out, so I've gotta stop that <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif">

     
    Old 11-23-2001, 03:35 PM   #9
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    An update from Cyclone, ruffeo and Atom, any changes? Getting better? still clear? Thanks

     
    Old 11-25-2001, 10:09 AM   #10
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    sure thing...

    i'm now two and a half weeks in. this past week i've witnissed a regression in the state of my face.. that regression is called "twelve oreo cookies that i ate last saturday" :v) i assume these to be the culprit because they seem to have coincided with the appearance of several cysts and whiteheads. it was really discouraging. and it became clear to me that this regimen is NOT accutane - i still have to very carefully control my diet. but i spent the week trying to clean up the mess and it's all certainly looking better now. i'm again starting to feel like the process is working, albeit slowly. i'm taking two bht pills a day and now i'm taking an nac pill only every other day. i'll report again in a few days or so, hopefully with positive news.

    also, i did my blood lipids... here they are (if any of you are interested):

    total cholesterol = 108 (ideal 200 or less)
    triglycerides = 42 (ideal 200 or less)
    HDL (good cholesterol) = 57 (ideal 50 or more)
    LDL (bad cholesterol) = 43 (ideal 130 or less)

    i took the blood test about a week after i started the bht an other pills so i'm unsure if those had any effect on the results.

     
    Old 11-25-2001, 04:15 PM   #11
    ruffeo
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    Re: Oldguy's Experiment (long)

    I'm going onto week 9!

    During week 8 I broke pretty bad, so to make up for that I took 4 left over minocycline pills to clear me up, and they did. But, after a day or two off of the minocycline I notice the stuff coming back.

    One thing that I do notice is that while on BHT my cysts aren't nearly as big as they used to be. I used to have several "dime" sized cysts on my face, they have drastically reduced in size, however are still on my face.

    I am taking:

    8 bht pills daily (2000mg)
    1 NAC pill every other day
    Selenium
    Zinc

    I might be picking up some niacinamide and attempt to add that the the gazillion amounts of pills I take daily, maybe it'll help me out a bit.

    I too came to the realization, the same one that Atom mentioned. This regimen IS NOT accutane and the hopes I had for this regimen are growing shorter by the day.

    This regimen however is helping, I'm just not sure if it is helping enough. I will keep with this regimen for another 3 weeks and see how my face is by then-- as that will be the 3 month mark of the regimen. If this regimen doesn't help me out by then, i will most likely be going on accutane...if i can afford it :P

     
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