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  • physiology of acne??

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    Old 08-19-2001, 09:17 AM   #1
    anon82
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    physiology of acne??

    ok so most of us have been told that the basic cause of acne is hormones going crazy, making our skin oily, germs feed off oil which makes pores go *****/swollen/ whatever. but that's all so vague....

    WHY do hormones make our skin oily??????? WHY are there so many different kinds of acne??? i'm sick of all these half-arsed "explanations". does anyone know what's REALLY going on with our skin????

     
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    Old 08-19-2001, 11:10 AM   #2
    BJ72
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    For a while now I've heard that acne is caused by the over-production of sebum... I'm now thinking that this is not true at all. I know alot of people that have oily skin, but zero acne. This leads me to believe that it's not the amount of sebum that causes acne, but the consistency of the sebum. Say for instance the sebum of someone with out acne is very thin, and "slippery". Therefore it wont stick to the pores and wont build up. Someone with acne may have thick, or "sticky" sebum. This adhesion allows it to readily build up in the pores. I'm now doing research as to what can change the "makeup" of sebum.

     
    Old 08-19-2001, 04:53 PM   #3
    jonah
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    There are 4 factors that cause acne(hyperkeratinization, sebum, bacteria, inflammation), and different things that affect some of the factors (which we argue about on this board). Check other posts or do some searches on the web.

     
    Old 08-20-2001, 05:36 PM   #4
    Beliala
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    I've been drinking lots of flax oil in hopes that the omega-3 fatty acids will make my sebum nice and slippery. Udo Erasmus (author of FATS THAT HEAL FATS THAT KILL) claims eating a healthy diet rich in polyunsaturated fats cures acne. Unfortunately my 2 tbsp/day of flax oil doesn't seem to be producing a magic cure, though it has helped other health problems. Maybe other people will have better luck.

     
    Old 08-20-2001, 06:15 PM   #5
    EddieD
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    You are forgetting Genetic Acne. If acne runs in your family, you will most likely get it. My dads brothers and sisters had it, and now I have it. Genetic acne is the hardest acne to fight especially when its severe.

     
    Old 08-20-2001, 06:35 PM   #6
    babs777
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Hey BJ72,

    What are some of your theories on the changing sebum consistency? Have you found any potential fixes in your research? I also beleive that has alot to do with acne. Tell us what you find out. <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/smile.gif">

    Thanks,
    babs

     
    Old 08-20-2001, 08:46 PM   #7
    Oldguy
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Hello Beliala,
    Polyunsaturated oils are NOT healthy. They are the primary cause of atherosclerosis along with a high carbohydrate diet. Polyunsat veggy oils are desaturated by removing the hydrogens...This results in leaving broken electron bonds that are highly reactive and oxidize easily, within the body, or outside of the body. In the body, they are called lipids. Go to a google search and enter oxidized lipids or LDL's and see what you find if you think I'm kidding.
    ___Normally, sebum, as it leaves the oil glands is amber clear. What makes it yello and white are remnants of macrophages (white cells) that have turned into foam cells (look that up too) because they have ingested oxidized and peroxidized lipids. the white or yello stuff is actually pus without the water. Water is driven off because of the oil content. If the sebum didn't contain these remnants, it would come through the ducts easily.
    ___Just like some people are genetically predisposed to have atherosclerosis and heart attacks, some are predisposed to have acne. I have asked some of you in the past to have your blood lipid profile checked. If you have hi LDL's, VLDL's, and Triacylglycerides, this is likely being manifested in your skin at your younger age. This is the bases of my old post, "an experiment". If you think high cholesterol and blood lipids are an old person's disease, you are very misinformed. Go to the high cholesterol board and read the post about a teen with high blood lipids.It takes a long time for high blood lipids to kill...usually when a person gets older. It starts when you're young.
    Many cystic acne lesions are caused by peroxidized lipids destroying the blood vessel walls of the capillaries between the skins cells, and don't involve the oil glands at all. Everyone thinks so because the proximity of the glands are close and are eventually involved in the lesion. Peroxidized lipids also attack the tiny blood vessels in the brain...and when they rupture, it's a stroke. Most doctors think that high cholesterol causes atherogenesis...they're wrong.
    It's the peroxidized LDL's and VLDL's.
    ___Dr Kook and his gang along with the government nutrition idiots have done more to ensure that we never use social security than anyone I know of. The high carb, polyunsat veg oil, low fat diet is a killer, and the similarity in development of atherosclerotic tumors in the arteries is very similar to the development of the cysts in Acne Vulgaris. The black and white heads, (comedones) and hyperkerotenization may well have its birth in this too. Many of you have been brave enough to request my information, and if you have embarked on the experiment, we may soon learn something.
    ____The complexities in atherogenesis and cardiovascular disease is complex and I'm not about to write a book here. Someone was on the right track in one or two posts in trying a guggle compound used in bodybuilding. I'll tell you now, it lowers oxidation and peroxidation of blood lipids. There are many guggle formulas in the vitamin stores, and they work, but they are weak.
    ___My advice for now is: go to the high cholesterol boards and read the articles by Arkie6 and follow the diet plans he lays out. It's a low carb, high protein, moderate fat diet. Get rid of the breads, potatoes, and anything that is lo-fat and contains polyunsaturated veg oils. Go heavy on antioxidants, selenium, E, etc. and take B6 to prevent attacks by high levels of homocysteine.
    ___I've read so many of your posts and truly feel sorry for so many of you, and that is why I've posted here. Unfortunately, there is very little analysis, little study of the structure of the skin, and little determination of the physiology involved. It's stumbling in the dark and being cynical.
    _Until the next time, God bless and grant wisdom and guidance to you all. Oldguy

     
    Old 08-21-2001, 08:42 AM   #8
    BJ72
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Babs: I have just started researching this topic, but I'm thinking that refined sugar is one of the things that increases sebum's adhesive properties. But most of you already knew that sugar was not good. I've yet to make any conclusions of my own, but will keep you updated if i find anything.

     
    Old 08-21-2001, 08:07 PM   #9
    babs777
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Thanks BJ72!

     
    Old 08-21-2001, 08:39 PM   #10
    Girlie19
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Interesting Oldguy. <IMG SRC="http://www.healthboards.com/ubb/round.gif">

     
    Old 08-21-2001, 09:52 PM   #11
    Beliala
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Oldguy,
    Admittedly I havenít done much research on the subject other than the one book I read, but it seems that the bad press given to polysaturated oils really only applies to rancid or refined oils, and to imbalances in the omega-3 to omega-6 ratio. Because the oils are, as you say, unstable, the processing they go through before ending up into that bottle at the grocery store creates all sorts of nasty chemicals. In the nuts or seeds they came from, or cold-pressed and consumed fairly promptly, there is a minimum of degradation. Unprocessed, the oils also contain antioxidants which help prevent them from causing free radical damage. Maybe they donít contain enough of these antioxidants, I dunno, but I take other supplements so I figure Iím covered. Too little omega-3s relative to omega-6s increases the tendency to inflammation, which is why Iím supplementing with the flax oil. In a few more months, after my body has built up a reserve, Iíll reduce to a maintenance dose.

     
    Old 08-22-2001, 10:04 AM   #12
    JoeK
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Eddie,

    As much as theyíre saying about the Genetic thing... Iíve seen so many people, including myself, whose parents donít have Acne background... and yet we get them.

     
    Old 08-22-2001, 05:28 PM   #13
    Oldguy
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Hi B,
    The oils that come from the seeds are not polyunsaturated. They, in their natural form are healthy. It's after the oils are dehydrogenated and deodorized thru live steam that they become very reactive. These are called polyunsaturated. Margarine is totally rehydrogenated and provides the hydrogens needed to make hydroperoxide free radicals. Olive oil is monounsaturated as is flax and grape seed oil. They are natural unprocessed oils. Polyunsaturated oils have been pushed by Uncle Sams experts as are carbs in their low fat BS.
    Polyunsat oils oxidize easily when heated, and the hotter they are, the faster they oxidize. How long have the polyunsaturated vegetable oils (required by the U.S. expert BS) been hot when they cook your fries, fish, or chicken in the fast food and other restaurants? be blessed, Oldguy


    Oh yes BJ, Sugar is bad, and so is white bread. Do a google search on Glycation, and AGE's (advanced glycation end products). Also, a good information site is Mendosa.com. It covers the glycemic index quite well..<p>[This message has been edited by Oldguy (edited 08-22-2001).]

     
    Old 08-22-2001, 06:14 PM   #14
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Oldguy,

    I have to agree with Beliala. ``Polyunsaturated'' means that there are some carbon-hydrogen double bonds in the component fatty acids. It has nothing to do with the processing -- these oils occur naturally. They are beneficial if used properly (i.e., if unrefined and fresh). Examples: Extra virgin olive oil (monounsaturated), flax seed oil, sesame oil, etc...all unrefined and fresh, of course. It's the saturated fat, refined or hydrogenated (or dehydrogenated as you pointed out) polyunsaturated fats and omega-6/omega-3 fatty acid ratio you have to worry about. Naturally occuring polyunsaturated oils are beneficial if fresh and unrefined.

    Here's an interesting abstract about the possible therapeutic effects of polyunsaturated oils on skin disorders:

    -------------------------------------------
    Implications of dietary oils and polyunsaturated fatty acids in the management of cutaneous disorders
    Ziboh VA. (1989) Arch Dermatol. 125(2):241-5

    A major proinflammatory metabolite of arachidonic acid, leukotriene B4, is known to accumulate in the lesions of psoriasis. Most of this metabolite is biosynthesized by the polymorphonuclear cells that infiltrate into the psoriatic lesions. Epidermal 15-lipoxygenase, on the
    other hand, metabolizes arachidonic acid into 15-hydroxyeicosatetraenoic acid (15-20:4n-6), presumably serving as a negative feedback
    to inhibit the local generation of leukotriene B4. Eicosapentaenoic acid, a major polyunsaturated fatty acid in fish oil, and gamma-linolenic
    acid, a poly-unsaturated fatty acid in certain vegetable oils, are both metabolized by epidermal 15-lipoxygenase into 15-hydroxyeicosapentaenoic acid (15-OH-20:5n-3) and 15-hydroxyeicosatriaenoic acid (15-OH-20:3n-3), respectively. Both of these
    monohydroxy acids are potent in vitro inhibitors of leukotriene B4 generation. It seems reasonable, therefore, that adequate dietary supplementation with eicosapentaenoic acid or gamma-linolenic acid may offer a novel and nontoxic approach to suppressing cutaneous
    inflammatory disorders.
    -----------------------------------------------

    Note the conclusion that gamma-linolenic acid (found in fresh unrefined flax seed oil, for example) can ``suppress cutaneous inflammatory disorders''

    There's a huge literature on this.

    -G

    P.S. -- I am having a lipid profile done which includes HbAlc and thyroid as well as cholesterol and will let you know the results.....

     
    Old 08-22-2001, 06:16 PM   #15
    gianni
     
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    Re: physiology of acne??

    Oldguy,

    flax seed oil is polyunsaturated, not monounsaturated.

    But, i get your point. You are worried about processed oils and unprocessed saturated fats.

    -G

     
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