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    Old 06-19-2005, 03:56 PM   #1
    heddy73
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    Question help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    My son has been on the increased dose of 30mg for a couple of weeks. He has been on Ritalin for about 6 weeks total. Since the increase he seems very depressed and cries easliy. He is 6 yrs old. I am worried about him as is his teachers at school. He was impulsive and had no attention span. Now is a little too focused(if that makes sense) and really serious. My son was a happy little boy who loved to kiss and hug people now he acts like a robot and will hug you if you ask but with no emotion behind it. When he was on the lower dose he was calmer but not so sullen. I'm wondering if this med is not the right one for him or if the lower dose is more appropriate.... any help as long as its positive will be appreciated. I don't want my wonderful son going thru his childhood like a zombie.

     
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    Old 06-20-2005, 04:58 PM   #2
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    Heddy,

    Look, I'm no doctor so take what I say with a dump truck load of salt, but 30 mg of Ritalin is WAY too much for a six year old child. It is no wonder so many become ADD med and doctor haters. That is just plain irresponsible. Geeeeeeeeeee. It would be like me taking 300 mg a day.

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    Old 06-21-2005, 10:58 AM   #3
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heddy73
    My son has been on the increased dose of 30mg for a couple of weeks. He has been on Ritalin for about 6 weeks total. Since the increase he seems very depressed and cries easliy. He is 6 yrs old. I am worried about him as is his teachers at school. He was impulsive and had no attention span. Now is a little too focused(if that makes sense) and really serious. My son was a happy little boy who loved to kiss and hug people now he acts like a robot and will hug you if you ask but with no emotion behind it. When he was on the lower dose he was calmer but not so sullen. I'm wondering if this med is not the right one for him or if the lower dose is more appropriate.... any help as long as its positive will be appreciated. I don't want my wonderful son going thru his childhood like a zombie.
    My nephew would have a mix of aggression then crying all the time on only a half of starting dose of Adderall. Depression is common with stimulants. Then they tried a low dose of Strattera and that was fine for awhile but then he got severely fatigued.

    My in-laws took him off everything and he's actually doing ok. Maybe you could go back to the lower dosage and see if that helps things.

     
    Old 06-22-2005, 05:26 AM   #4
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    I agree with the above posters. Sounds like the dose is too high for him.

     
    Old 06-23-2005, 09:05 AM   #5
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    I took my son to the dr's on monday and she did switch him to Adderall 10mg. He seems more like his old self but still in the morning is withdrawn but not at all like the ritalin. Thank you for your replies. It helps to have people to talk this over with who have been there. I'll keep you posted. Its been 3 days on the adderall and he is having a psychiatric eval on friday. His doc thinks maybe bi-polar with the adhd....I'm nervous and scared about this (not the eval) but just the road ahead for my sweet baby.

     
    Old 06-23-2005, 10:30 AM   #6
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heddy73
    I took my son to the dr's on monday and she did switch him to Adderall 10mg. He seems more like his old self but still in the morning is withdrawn but not at all like the ritalin. Thank you for your replies. It helps to have people to talk this over with who have been there. I'll keep you posted. Its been 3 days on the adderall and he is having a psychiatric eval on friday. His doc thinks maybe bi-polar with the adhd....I'm nervous and scared about this (not the eval) but just the road ahead for my sweet baby.

    I'm not sure you should worry so much about bi-polar. From what I've read on stimulants they tend to create those types of symptoms of bi-polar and OCD.

    Symptoms begin with increased energy, hyperalertness, and overfocusing. It
    progresses toward obsessive/compulsive activities, insomnia, agitation, hypomania and mania. Hypomania is a milder form of mania.

    They also commonly cause apathy, social withdrawal, emotional depression. The drug-induced symptoms are sadness and behavioral deterioration, irritability, withdrawal, lethargy, violent behavior, withdrawal, mild mania, dysphoria and sadness.

    One doctor I've read alot on said that doctors and even researchers seem to frequently confuse stimulant-induced ADRs with evolving
    mental disorders in the children. Stimulants, for example, very frequently cause symptoms of depression (including apathy and lethargy) and obsessive/compulsive disorder. Less frequently, they cause mania.


    Based on his clinical practice and on anecdotal reports, he mentions that physicians often fail to identify stimulant-induced ADRs that affect mental function. They mistakenly attribute them to newly emerging psychiatric disorders in the children.

    Instead of stopping the stimulants, new psychiatric medications are added. The increasing diagnosis of depression, obsessive/compulsive disorder, and mania in children may be due in part to unrecognized stimulant adverse effects.

    Knowing what stimulants do to the brain, perhaps this is something to think about, isn't it? Especially since they really can't measure those brain chemicals in your son's brain, thus giving him a drug that effect those cheimicals is an unsure method based on drug effects only but with unsure results on future brain function.

    Surely the effects of the stimulants will bring the bi-polar diagnosis I almost guarentee that's what the doctor will do unless you question it which I find very sad.

     
    Old 06-28-2005, 05:34 PM   #7
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    Thanks Jennita, The psychiatrist didn't dx him with bi-polar but gave us a prescription for an anti-depressant. I haven't filled it yet but I don't know if I should or not. Any ideas on this?

     
    Old 06-28-2005, 08:06 PM   #8
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    I understand what you are going through, we took my 8 yr old son off the meds, he was on ritalin and then concerta 18mg. 30 sounds like alot for a 6 yr old. My son cried about every little thing. Took him off and he is his happy self again, love to hear his laughter. I think adderall is our next choice, would love not to have him on anything but he did so poorly in school it was making him upset, he couldn't do what the other kids were doing. Tfs your story, good luck

     
    Old 06-28-2005, 10:41 PM   #9
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heddy73
    Thanks Jennita, The psychiatrist didn't dx him with bi-polar but gave us a prescription for an anti-depressant. I haven't filled it yet but I don't know if I should or not. Any ideas on this?
    Well, that's refreshing news so maybe the doc knew it was the stimulant and not alleged bi-polar.

    Antidepressants aren't as bad as stimulants BUT still, some people can get over-stimulated by them too. Mania is a side effect, now from what I understand most doctors do not blame the mania, if it occurs on an antidepressant, on the mania but rather on a latent bi-polar condition.....supposedly the AD "unmasks" an (unbeknownst to the patient) already present bi-polar condition.

    Well, I know people that happened to but upon discontinuing the AD they no longer experienced mania. So it seems to me that logically it was a drug reaction, even if others on AD's may not have manic reaction, we know not everyone has the same reaction to chemicals/foods/drugs so no mystery there.

    IMHO, none of the psychiatric drugs are healthy for the brain function and there is no way to know what they are really doing to the brain over time as far as functional damage goes.

    Basically, from what I've read, most AD's are adrenaline type drugs. THe most effected chemicals are norepinphrine (noradrenaline) and serotonin (excitatory neuro that is a vasoconstrictor).

    THey certainly increase energy in the brain but over time could cause downregulation of receptors which would actually not be good for the brain.

    So I don't know if the AD is so great for your son but I guess you will decide that for yourself I can't do that. If you do try it, just be on the lookout for side effects, even the ones considered less frequent.

     
    Old 06-29-2005, 06:44 AM   #10
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    Heddy, since your son's Adderall was just changed on Monday and he seems a little better on that, here's what I would do. I'd hold off on the antidepressant for a while. I'd give his moods time to level out on the Adderall and THEN evaluate whether or not you really think he needs an antidepressant.

    If
    he's only been weepy since starting Ritalin, I'd have to weigh very heavily in my mind whether he is better off without a stimulant at all rather than giving him a stimulant AND an antidepressant.

    I know it's a tough decision for you to make. I feel for you!

    Last edited by index.html; 06-29-2005 at 06:45 AM.

     
    Old 07-05-2005, 04:24 PM   #11
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    I took him to the psychatrist after refusing what I thought was a anti-depressant....he explained that it helped differently than the stimulants.he is off the Adderall all together. So far on this new med he is happy not zombie like and back to his "old self". Its been since this past friday. I like this dr. He is Japanese and does origomi(I can't spell) but anyhoo he makes all the cool things with paper like birds and flowers and the kids are mesmerized by him doing it while he talks to the parents....I liked him right from the start.I'll check out his meds and post it here in case anyone if familar with it....ok its Loxapine 5mg. He started out taking 2.5mg to adjust himself to the med and now he takes 5mg. We go back weekly and check his progress. He has to have the bloodwork done this week. He(the dr) wants to make sure there is no medical reason for his behavior first.He said make sure no physical problem then treat mental. I like him already.....

     
    Old 07-06-2005, 10:22 AM   #12
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heddy73
    I took him to the psychatrist after refusing what I thought was a anti-depressant....he explained that it helped differently than the stimulants.he is off the Adderall all together. So far on this new med he is happy not zombie like and back to his "old self". Its been since this past friday. I like this dr. He is Japanese and does origomi(I can't spell) but anyhoo he makes all the cool things with paper like birds and flowers and the kids are mesmerized by him doing it while he talks to the parents....I liked him right from the start.I'll check out his meds and post it here in case anyone if familar with it....ok its Loxapine 5mg. He started out taking 2.5mg to adjust himself to the med and now he takes 5mg. We go back weekly and check his progress. He has to have the bloodwork done this week. He(the dr) wants to make sure there is no medical reason for his behavior first.He said make sure no physical problem then treat mental. I like him already.....
    Oh my, I think thats' an antipsychotic, aka a major tranquilizer (downer). I think those scare me even more than stimulants and ADs from what I've read of them!

    They are capable of major nervous system damage in some people over time like tardive dyskinesia, neuroleptic malignant syndrome and such. I didn't think they used those for ADD but more for bi-polar mania, ODD and schizophrenia. I've heard of it being used also for severe anxiety disorders.

    I don't mean to scare you but I'm not sure if this is the best med for him in the long run because of the damage it could cause. At the very least, if I were you, I would not allow the dosage to be upped anymore even if he becomes tolerant to it, because larger doses increase the chances of negative side effects.

    Yikes, from the frying pan into the fire.

    I guess some people do ok on the lower dosages, though, so don't go totally by what I say. But I would be a bit concerned at any rate.

    Last edited by Jennita; 07-06-2005 at 10:26 AM.

     
    Old 07-10-2005, 03:36 PM   #13
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    yeah the dr said it is used to treat schizophenia....but in a higher doese. Like 300-400mg. He put my son on .5mg. I have to take him in the morning to get blood work done ans make sure there is no medical reason for his behavior then we go from there....I know I'm scared to even give him a vitamin because you can O.D. on them....Its makes me sick to think it could hurt him later in life. But as the dr said if adhd goes untreated it can actually lead to other problems as well.....

     
    Old 07-10-2005, 10:56 PM   #14
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by heddy73
    yeah the dr said it is used to treat schizophenia....but in a higher doese. Like 300-400mg. He put my son on .5mg. I have to take him in the morning to get blood work done ans make sure there is no medical reason for his behavior then we go from there....I know I'm scared to even give him a vitamin because you can O.D. on them....Its makes me sick to think it could hurt him later in life. But as the dr said if adhd goes untreated it can actually lead to other problems as well.....
    ADHD has yet to be proven to be biological so I'm not sure what other problems he means...perhaps he is referring to a rebellious stage/drug use/crime possibility during teenage years but IMHO those are things any kid, ADHD or not, can become tangled into these days but it seems they always assume/blame untreated ADHD or ADD. That's an easy claim with all the problem children there are and of course they manage to scare the bejesus out of the parents when they claim such things and most parents medicate based on fear.

    I'm not saying don't medicate but at the same time realize these doctors can be wrong so don't worry so much about what they say. However, if you feel the need to do what they recommend, at least do read up on potential side/adverse effects of the drugs, from all sources (not just mainstream doctors) so you can be savy to anything that may go wrong down the line.

    I would say if you must medicate, insist on staying at lower doses. Sometimes tolerance will develop to the drugs, if that happens later, don't buy into the "original problem is worse" excuse they give when they need to up the dosage due to tolerance.

    Lower doses will protect your son from higher risk of side effects.

    Good luck I do hope things will be ok for your son...

    Last edited by Jennita; 07-10-2005 at 10:57 PM.

     
    Old 07-16-2005, 05:01 AM   #15
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    Re: help for my son on Ritalin la 30mg

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita

    I would say if you must medicate, insist on staying at lower doses. Sometimes tolerance will develop to the drugs, if that happens later, don't buy into the "original problem is worse" excuse they give when they need to up the dosage due to tolerance....

    Yeah I fell into that trap with the ritalin and I believe I won't do that again. The psychiatrist we are having my son see is very against Ritalin and those type of meds. He said he does not see they work the best for children and after watching my son on a few of them I agree. But they do help some kids and adults. Just not my boy. Zach has been on the meds 2 weeks and he has really come back to himself...if that makes sense. He is not acting impulsive or screaming or hurting other people....not to mention himself. He may not have adhd but there are some self-control problems. Could be just his personality....who knows but I question every move the drs make with him. I would rather deal with my son yelling,hitting etc. than the bad things long term this med would cause.

     
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