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    Old 07-18-2007, 02:37 PM   #1
    goody2shuz
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    Adderall Abuse

    My 18 year old daughter is set up to be evaluated for ADD with a psychiatrist who has been treating my 16 year old daughter over the past 18 months for
    Bipolar/ADD.

    I've had concerns since my older daughter was 14 about her behavior, irritability, agitation, anger and impulsivity. After my younger daughter was diagnosed and my older daughters symptoms continued, my concerns increased.

    Older daughter denied anything being wrong with her despite how her behavior affected our entire household to the point that we couldn't even interact with her without some type of altercation occurring. We were and continue to always be walking on eggshells with her. She also is quite impulsive and seems to be an active particpant in risk taking behavior. This scares me the most. We have a strong family history of addictions and drug/alcohol abuse on both sides of the family as well as Manic depression.

    When our older daughter's symptoms started we discovered that she was taking Stackers with Ephedra (diet pills with an added stimulant). She went for a few sessions of therapy and we educated her about the dangers of the pills and kept a close eye on her. At 15 she was experimenting with vodka (we found a bottle in her room and she was caught distributing shots to her friends while we were entertaining some friends in our home). She also has experimented with weed.

    Last summer when our younger daughter was diagnosed we scheduled an evaluation for our older one before she headed off to college. Her behavior was the same if not worse and we had growing concerns about her going away without looking further into things. She was 17 at the time and we knew that our time was running out in terms of getting her the help she may need. She "snowed" the psychiatrist pretty well making him believe that it was the normal conflicts that parents and teens have when a teen wants independence and the parents are too strict. He recommended family counselling and told us he saw no reason to further see her since there was no evidence of mental illness that he could diagnose.

    She went off to college...her grades were great but there were a few instances in which she brought friends home to our home while we were away to use our home for a getaway party. We told her that we were nt going to tolerate such behavior and would press charges next time. On other breaks home if she didn't like our curfew of 2am she has taken off in her car returning when she felt like it. She wasn't one to like rules to begin with and it was always a fight...she was in what I call a constant "mission mode" doing everything and anything to get her way.

    Anyway towards the end of the year she expressed a need to be evaluated for ADD saying that she was having problems concentrating andv her friends were saying that something was up too. She has been home for the summer and I see her pacing around, talking incessantly on the phone, having to do something every minute of the day and if there are no plans feeling miserable and fidgety. She is also quite irritable, frustrated, often saying how stressed she is and not having enough time to do all that she had to do....when I tell her that she needs to relax she gets upset saying things like she would rather die or kill herself than sit around with nothing to do. When I expressed my concerns about her saying that (and it isn't the first time I have heard it) she said that is how it is on the SIMS game, that when the people have nothing to do they just kill themselves!!

    Anyway...she does great as far as grades go....she has worked jobs since she was able to get working papers and is a great worker and her employers LOVE her. She is responsible when it comes to a job but not so at home.

    Anyway.....as her appointment for her evaluation approaches this coming Friday I have had my concerns. About a month ago while she was IMing with a college friend on my PC I saw the screen up and her friend responded "I really need an Adderall rush!!" A red flag went up and I banked it until yesterday when I went to check my younger daughter's text messages (I do so every once in a while to keep tabs on things) and mistakenly went into my older daughter's phone (they have the same exact phone). The last text that she sent was to one of the three friends who came to visit her yesterday and it said..."Don't forget to bring the Adderall!!"

    I am now convinced that my daughter's reasons for seeing the psychiatrist are more for trying to obtain a perscription for Adderall than to seek help for herself.

    I am so upset by this....she is 18 now and she has agreed to have me be a part of her evalutation and agreed to sign the release forms. My instincts tell me not to confront her but to call the pyschiatrist before her appointment to discuss my concerns before her evaluates her. And then when she does undergo the evaluation see what he comes up with and when he asks for my concerns as a mom to share my concerns about her use of alcohol/drugs and our family history (I intended on sharing this with him before finding the text message) and see where it goes from there.

    I am not sure if her need for stimulants since the age of 14 stems from underlying ADD or Bipolar thus having her self medicate or if there is an addiction to be worrying more about. I NEED so much for this psychiatrist to help my daughter however in 6 weeks so returns to college and I don't know how realistic that is.

    Also...I KNOW that if she wants to get her hands on Adderall that she will find a way to do so....she is 18 now and can make appointments with other psychiatrists and eventually find one who will perscribe.

    I just am venting and wondering if anybody here could offer me some suggestions on what to do with all of this.

    I had such a strong maternal instinct that something was up and I just feel so helpless on how to help my daughter get the help that she needs.

    PLEASE...I can't seem to think straight here....we have been through so much and I feel like I may be losing this battle and as a mother I am not ready to give up the fight.

    Thanks everybody.

    ~ Goody (losing lots of sleep)

     
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    Old 07-19-2007, 08:00 AM   #2
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Goody,

    I am so sorry. I can't imagine the pain you feel. Perhaps consider it a blessing in disguise.

    You might consider alerting psychiatrist to Adderall abuse and have daughter go to appointment as planned. Let it play out. Perhaps looking at abuse square in the eyes will help.

    Just a thought. Use your best judgement. And don't forget what a good parent you are.

    Bob

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 05:32 PM   #3
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Hi Goody,

    So she is extremely active and impulsive and we were all thinking ADD. But, I guess that is also an effect of being on a stimulant drug, when you're not ADD, right? So your daughter might just be a "normal" kid with a Adderall abuse problem? I sure would alert that psychiatrist before the appointment...I know, it's Thursday night, but maybe you can reach him/her tomorrow if you haven't already. We parents have to do tough things and one of them is turning our kids in if they do indeed have a drug problem. It'll help her in the long run...you know that...she doesn't, but that's what we're supposed to do! Man, life is hard. Keep us posted on what happens tomorrow. I'll be checking your thread to see what comes of the appointment.

    Karen

     
    Old 07-19-2007, 09:06 PM   #4
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Hey Goody:

    After reading your post I felt it imperative to share my experience with you.
    I posted my story in the addiction and recovery section under the heading
    "Ritalin Abuse is Real: My personal Hell."

    I am a 31 yo married woman. I live in Texas. I am a drug addict. My drugs of choice: Ritalin and Adderall. I abused these drugs heavily for 4 years. I went through 6 rehabs to try and kcik my habit and nothing worked.

    I would grind and snort my Adderall or Ritalin to get high or a "rush."

    How did I learn to do this? I read an article about high school kids doing it so I tried it one day and became hooked! This began a road to hell.
    I tried to quit over and over again but could not resist that "sped up" feeling.

    I got pills from numerous doctors so my supply never ran out.

    This is life-threatening issue which more people should be aware of!!!!!

    Where there is smoke there is fire. Intervene. Follow your gut.
    Do lot let this happen to your daughter.

    Concerned,

    E

     
    Old 07-22-2007, 07:46 PM   #5
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    I would like to thank everyone for your posts....Elizabeth, thank you for your post, I am definitely going to take your warning into consideration.

    Frazzled & Bob ~ We had the evaluation on Friday and I was able to put a call in on Thursday...the pdoc was off but I was able to speak to the Nurse Practitioner and share my concerns with her. She reassured me that I had done the right thing and that she would inform the doctor of my concerns prior to our appointment.

    The pdoc met with hubby and I and our daughter....he explained that he would get a history of what she saw as her problems in the past as well as present and with some input from us. He also reassured her that since he wanted to have her be as truthful as possible there would be a point in which we would be asked to leave the room and he would meet with her privately and would ask her questions that he wouldn't share her answers with us but required her to be honest in order to best help her.

    After obtaining a basic mental health history our daughter informed the pdoc that the reason she was there was because she was having problems focusing and concentrating in college and was also fidgety. He asked her other questions of problems that she thought were in her past and present besides that.....she said that other than having strict parents and rules everything else was alright.

    He then asked us what we saw as the problem. We were honest about our deep concern regarding our daughter's alcohol and drug use....that with the family history of alcoholism, drug addictions, & Bipolar and also having her younger sister recently diagnosed with BP/ADD we didn't know if her use of drugs and alcohol was due to some underlying biological condition and wanted to get down to the reason for it. We shared with him of how things started at the age of 14 when she had a change in personality...she was quite irritable, angry, rebelluous, impulsive that it seemed quite volatile in nature and eventually came to a head and she moved out for a few weeks staying at one of our friends houses. At the time we discovered from our younger daughter that she was hiding pills in her room which ended up being Stackers with Ephedra. We explained her starting to drink at the age of 14-15 as well as using weed. Of running away and doing risky things without thinking.....progressing to her getting arrested for underage drinking and suspended a few months before her Graduation. Of her living with my brother with a fresh start and her only doing the same things and my brother saying that he had the same concerns as we did....that something was wrong and that he was extremely afraid for her. He went on to ask our daughter about her drinking and drug use starting with the drinking....she went on to tell him that she only drank about once or twice a month...hubby choked and stood up saying that it was probably time for the pdoc to meet with her alone so that she could be honest....the pdoc agreed and we left the room.

    He then met with our daughter for a good 30 minutes or so and then called us back in. He asked how things were at home....we told him not good at all...that she didn't like the rules, barely met up with her responsibilities, was irritable and always on the go running around from the minute she woke up to the time she got home. That on the other hand her grades were wonderful and she was working a full-time job as a front desk operator at a high end resort which is in the line of work that she hopes to make a career of. That she had a great work ethic but yet did risky things that we were afraid would affect her entire future if she didn't learn how to control it. I shared how she went on scavenger hunts in which she rode around at night in a car with a team competing with friends in another car doing things like breaking windows, climbing on roofs, peeing in a cup and leaving it in a mailbox, stealing signs, ringing a doorbell waking up a family and getting a picture. And the latest of breaking into our secondary home and having friends over for the third time.

    The pdoc shared with us his findings....he said that he felt that our daughter had no biological condition that he felt he could treat. That his recommendation would be counseling. That while he interviewed our daughter she was totally coherent, undistracted and not denmonstrating any evidence of lack of concentration, delusions, psychosis, irrational behavior etc. He did share that she had a definite set of values and perceptions of life that differed severely from ours and that with counseling and maturity that would improve. He spent another 45 minutes explaining how while her values and perceptions were different than ours that because we were sustaining her and she was receiving the benefits of free room and board, funding of education, payment of medical/dental bills as well as livlihood that this should be enough for her to respect our values and perceptions even though they were not the same as hers and that once she was out on her own and not being supported by us that she was entitled to live by her own standards but until then needed to accept ours. That she was allowed to voice her opinion of them but in the end comply.

    Eventually our daughter tuned him out and stood up saying that she had enough and was going to be late for work.

    Long story short, we confronted our daughter with our findings....of finding out from 2 of her friends that they were concerned about her drug use which included Adderall (two my friends informed me that their kids told them that they were worried about our daughter and that she did use Adderall). She denied it at first and then told us that she did use it but only to focus more for her exams and handle the workload at college, to clean her dorm and things like that. And that she learned not to take it more than 2 days in a row or you get really depressed & that she hadn't taken any since 2 weeks ago (which is after college) and that everybody was doing it.

    EVentually when I told her about the text I came across of her asking her Marine friend to bring some Adderall and that it must be more than something she needed to focus in school she broke down crying saying that she needed it to work her job or she wouldn't have the energy to do all that she had to do. I pointed out that if she needed it to function at work then she was dependent on it. She said that she couldn't get any here (I doubted that because she seems wired all the time) and told me that she really feels that she has ADD and that the Adderall helps. Because of her manipulation and lying I don't know if that is for real or just a way to get what she wants.

    I also find out that her roommates who will be leasing a house this year also use Adderall...one of which was in rehab already for it, another who was in rehab for alcohol abuse, and a 23 year old marine who is a friend of one of the roommates who was addicted to oxycotin and they took him in to their dorm and watched over him this past year. HE has been serving in Iraq and kicked out of his house by his family for his drug use.

    We told our daughter that she needs to get help and do some outpatient rehab....that her use and abuse of alcohol and drugs was only worstening over the years and that as her parents we needed to intervene so that she didn't lose everything good in her life. She refused saying that only "f-ups" go to rehabs and she wasn't a "f-up" and that I was crazy and nobody elses mom waits up to do a drug test....I told her that a mom who loves their child does. That it wasn't about her winning or me losing anymore....that the DRUGS would win unless we did something about it.

    This morning we spoke more and we told her that we had come to the decision that for the rest of the summer that we would test her and if she tested positive that she wouldn't return to school and that we hoped that she would seek out counseling and/or rehab to help out. That if she did test positive at anytime that she would have to attend rehab if she wanted to continue to be supported by us and that she would attend a community college for a year until things were more under control. And that if she went back to college after doing okay for the summer that we would randomly come for a trip and test her and if she tested positive she would have to come back home or we would immediately stop funding her college or supporting her.

    She got angry saying that she didn't have a problem that everybody did Adderall and even much worse things like coke, ecstasy, heroin....we told her that we weren't interested in waiting until she did those as well. We told her that if she didn't have a problem then the testing shouldn't be so upsetting.

    She stormed out taking off in her car after telling us that she would never ever speak to us if we made her go to a rehab.

    So that is where we are at...I spoke to my best friend who has the son who is ADD and she got all choked up saying that what if she really is ADD and is trying to feel better and she is tormented like this for many years??? That she was concerned that my daughter didn't receive the proper evaluation because when her son was evaluated he had to answer pages of questions and it wasn't something you could determine in one session,. I told her that I was concerned about the same thing...that something was hurting inside of my daughter and I would hate for this to go on for years.

    I have a feeling that the pdoc washed his hands of her for two reasons....she is obviously looking to get Adderall by my findings and is abusing it without a proper prescription AND she is returning to college in a matter of weeks and feels that under those circumstances to diagnose her and administer Adderall to her is more of an ethical risk than he is willing to take.

    I would so appreciate anyone's thoughts on this particulary you, Bob, since you have a history of addictions preceeding your diagnosis of ADD and might be able to relate somewhat to what my daughter may be experiencing.

    Thanks for reading such a lengthy post....it has been quite a lot to take on and I so need some advice on how to go about doing what I need to save my daughter.

    ~ Goody

     
    Old 07-23-2007, 10:56 AM   #6
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Goody,

    Stay strong. If daughter wins battle of wits, SHE loses - everything.

    Drug addiction is exponentially worse than unmedicated ADHD.

    Let's talk about addiction "mind set." We have a sterotypical image of an addict in our heads. He/she is from a dirt poor inner city housing project and has a thousand dollar/day heroine habit that is supported by prostitution, theft and dealing. He/she must have fixes (plural) daily or violent withdrawals symptoms set in. If we're not that, than we're not an addict.

    Further, recreational drug use, performance enhancing drug use, is not drug abuse much less addiction. Some get away with it. Some even get ahead with it. Those occasional overdose deaths and those that go on to become addicts are just not as "smart" as your daughter.

    Your daughter is playing Russian roulette with a six shooter. It is "only" about a 20% chance her performance enhancing "tweaks" will destroy her life.

    Just say ABSOLUTELY "no" to drugs.

    But what if daughter is suffering with ADHD and should be on meds?

    First, she must stop abusing drugs and stay "clean" for a significant period of time. Then talk to your pdoc again. Incidentally, pdoc would be criminally negligent to prescribe stimulant meds given the circumstances. Go back in a year with empirical proof of abstinance (your stealthy drug tests) and pdoc will glady test for ADHD and treat it accordingly.

    The good news?

    Win this war and you save daughter's life. You have it right, daughter is not enemy, drugs are. Don't give up.

    We have the deepest respect for you, Goody. Upgrade handle to "Superb2Shuzs."

    Please? Pretty please?

    Bob

     
    Old 07-23-2007, 11:40 AM   #7
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Hi Goody - I found your story very interesting, and having a daughter, I can sympothize with you. Although my daughter is very young, if she turns out to be like my wife and I were, we have our hands full. Anyway, I am 28 years old and I suffer from Adult ADD. I never realized it in college, high school, or lower school, but I have always suffered from this condition. I was always a very smart person that didnt really care about school. I never studied or did homework but was somehow able to pull B or C average through high school and even college. I have a lot of the same issues that you speak of your daughter having, and as a teen, I also experimented with a lot of drugs, starting with tobacco, alcohol, then to Weed (I was a daily pot smoker for 5 or 6 years). I also tried cocaine, mushrooms, vicodin, and about anything else I could get my hands on. I will say that I never really liked the stimulant medications because I never really got any buzz off of them. I then got in a car accident and hurt my back really bad and for the next 5 years or so, I had an umlimited supply of pain medications, eventually ending up being totally addicted and taking approx 250 - 300mg of oxycontin per day. I went to rehab (which is not for losers by the way, everyone in holywood that your daughter probably idolizes has been to rehab) and got off of them using subutex. I am now off of subutex and have not used anything but I do have cravings from time to time. I am seeing a phych about my issues. After several months of meeting with me, he diagnosed me with ADD and it was like a ligt bulb went off. I REALIZED THAT I WAS JUST SELF MEDICATING MYSELF FOR ALL OF THOSE YEARS, TO TRY AND FEEL NORMAL. I was put on Adderall and immediately I felt normal, happy and content, Like I think other people do. I didnt get any buzz from it, but I do get some energy. I was later switched to Dexedrine, because it has less side effects for me. I have had ABSOLUTELY no cravings for any drugs since I started the ADD meds. I have not even felt like taking more of it, since I do not get high from it. This is strange for me because in my years of abusing opiates, I have always taken more and more... I wold use a 30 day prescription in 5 days usually.

    Anyway - Enough about meI do think that your daughter exhibits some or many symptoms of ADD from what you write. She is definitely seeking out Adderall, but it may be that she has taken it from her friends and noticed that it aleviates her symptoms. Then again she may just be trying to get high.... I think I would take her to another phych, one that specializes in ADD or addiction treatment and let her be evaluated and take the ADD test. Also, there is a new ADD drug out called VYVANSE that has the same active ingredient as Adderall (dextro-amphetamine), but it is impossible to abuse it or misuse it. The d-amphetamine in VYVANSE is in a form that if crushed and snorted is totally pointless. Only the digestion process and your liver breaking down amino acids that are bonded to the amphetamine can release the active drug. It sounds great for people that may have some history of abuse, or teens who may sell their meds or take it to get high. I want to say that I have not tried VYVANSE so I do not have first hand experience with it. I think that if your daughter does really have ADD and it goes undiagnosed, that would be worse than her getting diagnosed and letting her try either one of the meds that has less potential for abuse, or even letting her try Adderall under very controlled circumstances. For example, if she came home and lived with you during Summer break, you could keep the bottle and hand out her doses, and make sure to watch her swallow it, so she does no spit it out and take it to her room and crush it to snort. My guess is that she does have ADD and she is self medicating, just as I did. And believe me, self medicating can go from one thing to another very quickly... Being on controlled doses of adderall would have saved me years of extreme opiate addiction.

     
    Old 07-23-2007, 01:09 PM   #8
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ADD_slacker View Post
    My guess is that she does have ADD and she is self medicating, just as I did. And believe me, self medicating can go from one thing to another very quickly... Being on controlled doses of adderall would have saved me years of extreme opiate addiction.
    Goody,

    ADD_slacker is no slacker. Legitamacy runs rampant through his post. My guess is if I were dxed and treated early enough, I too would have saved years of extreme methamphetamine addiction.

    The problem may go to motive. I detect in ADD_slacker the same attitude that I had - namely - "I don't want to do this (abuse drugs) but I don't know how not to do this. What's more, I'll do anything to stop abusing drugs and start living a responsible life." I also see in both of us that age and experience contributed to that willingness to "do the work."

    One of the indicator lights that came on when my attitude shifted was I stopped lying and scheming. I became painfully open with myself and others. "Houston, we have a problem up here" replaced "nothing wrong with me" as I craftily covered my tracks that always led to the next "high."

    Do you see that indicator light on in daughter? Is it lit but concealed by desperate attempts to self-medicate?
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    Old 07-23-2007, 02:29 PM   #9
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Goody,

    All I can add is that I think you and your husband did a brave and great thing for your daughter. I think Bob's comments about having to go without the drugs, in order to determine if she has ADD, is right on the mark. My daughter admitted to using alcohol and pot but not to a large degree. The psychologist's answer to that was to put her on Strattera, not Adderall.

    I'm glad you posted again, I was worried about what was going on. Stick to you guns, as the oldtimers would say! I think your plan of action sounds very well thought through. Someday your daughter will realize and appreciate what you are doing for her!

    Karen

     
    Old 07-23-2007, 07:51 PM   #10
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Dear Bob, Karen & ADD_Slacker ~ I just would like to thank each and every one of you for taking the time to share with me your experiences and thoughts.

    Bob, as always you are of great wisdom and seem to have a great way of using all your insight and knowledge and firsthand personal experience to help others. I have been so impressed with your posts which have helped me to see things clearer, or at least try to, and help me think through what I need to do to best help my daughter. I have been torn between trying to decipher whether there is a biological component or just willingful behavior with some immaturity and defiance in partaking of risky and impulsive behaviors without foreseeing the consequences. The genetics certainly aren't in our favor with addictions on both sides of the family and Bipolar on one. In fact, I am almost convinced that my two brother in laws who are both presently incarcerated after a life of rehabs and drug use and incarcerations either had ADD or BP that went undiagnosed. And I certainly don't want my daughter to become a statistic.....I want to make sure for future generation's sake, that we nip this in the bud.

    Anyway...my daughter and I spoke this morning after things simmered down. I told her that I really needed for her to be straight with me, that I wasn't sure that she was self medicating or just going for the high. She yelled at me for always thinking that something had to do with something being wrong...that college kids use drugs and that she wasn't as bad as others and everybody did it & that I was crazy to want to drug test her. Not too encouraging since it leads me to believe that she really doesn't see a problem.

    I told her that one of three things were going on, that she had ADD or BP which drove her to self medicate with drugs and alcohol since the age of 14 or that she had an addictive personality that would potentially have her lose everything that was going good in her life as well as kill her and that scared her parents very much. That we didn't want her to end up like her two uncles......she got angry at my even making the comparison saying that she was doing GREAT in college and working 40 hours a week in a job that would be great for her future while her uncles weren't ever able to do that. She refused to talk about it anymore.

    You bring up indicator lights....this is where my uncertainty lies...my daughter manipulates and lies constantly and is never straight with us. Like you say, Bob, she schemes. If she wants something she basically does everything she can do to get it.

    Remember that kitten??? I found out that her story of finding it abandoned was a lie....she actually was up at the grocery store and a family was looking for homes for kittens and she wanted one and brought it home fabricating this story of how she had to save it from wandering the streets. This isn't a single incident, this has gone on for years and I really can't trust what she says which is sad.

    If she were to take a ADD test I am afraid that she may not even be honest if she wants to get the meds to get high. It seems that her indicator light is saying that there isn't anything wrong but that doesn't only go for drugs and alcohol but also for other impulsive and risky things that she does. On the other hand my daughter has very rarely admitted that she was wrong....we have the blame game and she is way too proud to admit that she did wrong. When she got suspended from school and arrested last year she didn't see anything wrong with it because other kids did as well and it was only her first time. She didn't see what a sacrifice it was on our part for me to go rent a motel room when my brother couldn't take it anymore so that she could graduate high school leaving my other daughter who was just being diagnosed with BP and had a second suicide attempt, behind with my husband who had to work. So the indicator light could be well hidden as you say.

    So....still, I don't know what to do....testing her will allow me to see whether she is using the Adderall...she knows that she has everything that she wants to lose if she tests positive. If I see her grades slip and more lack of concentration as a result and her drug testing negative it may warrant another evaluation. But as you all say, another evaluation wouldn't be fruitful unless A) she is drug free and B) she is willing to admit that something is off and asks for help.

    Hubby and I decided that we will allow her to go start bringing stuff to the house she is going to lease which will be ready August 1st. If she gets together a few times with her roommates the chances of her using Adderall are greater than keeping her home and not seeing her friends for a month 9her punishment for breaking into our secondary home without our permission and throwing a party for the 3rd time). That way if there is a problem we will know before she is due to go back to college and be able to act before losing a load of money. I would hate to do that because she has a big internship at a casino resort as part of her curriculum....she is a hard worker and has done well in the work world and from an academic standpoint. But to need drugs to do it....something is wrong.

    Slacker ~ thanks for sharing your story....the meds that you have mentioned I have tucked in the back of my mind if it comes time to medicate. I feel as if I am in a Catch 22 here....to allow her to go undiagnosed and seek out ways to self medicate and get further on the road of addictions and ruin her chances of continuing college when she tests positive OR to proactively find out if there is an underlying condition taking the chance that she will "snow" the professionals and get her pescriptions for drugs to get high on. If she didn't lie, scheme, manipulate and deceive it would be easier to get to the root of all of this.

    Thanks for listening.....Bob, I really appreciate the request to up my handle to "Superb2Shuzs" .....that is such a huge compliment thrown my way and makes me want to keep on doing what I'm doing hoping that it will keep my daughter on the road to a safe and drug free future. I have a feeling that is exactly what you hoped to accomplish!!

    I will keep you posted...and I soo appreciate all the time that you all spent helping me.

    (((((HUGS)))))) ~ Goody who met some "superb" friends here!!

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 07-23-2007 at 08:00 PM.

     
    Old 07-24-2007, 09:21 AM   #11
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Goody,

    Thank you for the compliment. I am going to "own" it. I need to do that for my own therapeutic reasons and "it" has been hard won.

    I mentioned in previous posts that I strongly suspect my dad is ADHD. He is still living but the effects of a stroke have made it nearly impossible for him to communicate. One of the last comments he was able to communicate was "I should have listened to your mother about that Buick." It was out of the blue. It was about a Buick he bought in 1985. I asked him, "Did mom complain before or after you bought it?" He said, "before." I asked, "why did you buy it?" He said, "I was in the market for a car." I thought to myself, "in market for a car is not a reason." Then after 20 years I remembered. Damn it anyway, I recommended that damn car.

    I am living out-of-state. Wife and I drive to NJ for a visit. On way to parents home I spot a Buick dealer - dad wanted a new Buick - I stopped in and saw a year old Park Ave with 11,000 miles selling for thousands less than new. I tell dad about it. He says, "We want new. We want no problems." I says, "It is new, still under warrenty for heaven sakes. Someone else bore the brunt of the depreciation, that's all."

    I'll own my part. I did not recognize that problem free was more important to my aging parents than saving several thousand dollars. GM's part: That Buick had peripheral problems, problems with the windows, AC, etc. but no major engine or transmission trouble. All GM products of that era (error?) had peripheral problems and that is why the Japanese kicked their butt out of market leader. Parents part: "My recommendation, while strong, did not force them to buy THAT Buick."

    What brought it on? Dad and I are sitting out in my yard and he is looking at my 2 Nissans. He has a strange type of blindness that makes it impossible to see the GM SUV also sitting there. And same blindness makes it impossible for him to see ANYTHING I do well and EVERTHING I screw-up.

    Truth be told, Dad was absent from my formative years. I have no recollection of him ever being around. Funny thing, recently wife and I were watching some old 8mm home movies she had copied to a DVD of my families vacations to Fla and other points. I had no recollection of my Dad being there. What's the funny thing? He took the damn movies.

    Now, do you know why you must upgrade to "Superb2Shuzs"?

    Damn it, Goody. Don't give up.

    A friend recently emailed me this: "The world is not interested in the storms you encountered, but did you bring in the ship.--Anonymous"

    The folks on this board ARE interested in the "storms" and helping each other through them.

    Bob

     
    Old 07-26-2007, 02:47 PM   #12
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    Cool Re: Adderall Abuse

    Dear Goody,

    My wife and I went through a similar hell on earth with our son. Arrested twice for drunk driving, Seriously damaged his car and got kicked out of high school for coming to school drunk.

    While in Court (second time in one month) our son finally agreed to go through a substance abuse outpatient program. At the same time that he was in his therapy meeting the facility had a separate meeting for the parents. The group leader worked for the local police but was also a family counciler. She interfaced with the students every day and really had a handle on things. Everytime a new couple or single mother would show up they, like all the rest of us, would broke down and cry asking the question, "Where did we fail. Where did we let him/her down". The lady counciler asked the following questions:

    1. Did you teach your child how to use drugs or alcohol?
    2. Did you teach your child how to lie?
    3. Have you shown your child love throughout her life?

    Of course, all of us said, "we did not teach them how to use drugs or alcohol. Neither did we teach him/her to lie. We've always tried to love on her/him at every opportunity".

    Her reply shocked us:

    "You've all taught you offspring to stay away from drugs, to be honest, and you're being here and having you child in this program is a demonstration of the love you have for your child. Your child has made a personal decision to walk down this road. Completely ignoring all that you (the parents) have taught and lived. "You are not responsible for their decision". Stop condemning yourself for a decision that is totally outside of your control and against what you have tought them. This is real tough love! Lovingly standing up for what is right in this emotionally explosive and painful even". Be there if they hit bottom and finally ask for help. Standing up for what is right in this emotionally explosive and painful event is one of the most difficult thing a parent can face."

    Our son is now a Lance Corporal in the USMC, married and his wife is expecting (gandkids: YES ). My heart goes out to you but don't give up hope.

     
    Old 07-27-2007, 09:08 PM   #13
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Indiana Dave ~ Thanks so much for your supportive and comforting post.....I so appreciate it. Somehow I only hope that this all will come to pass and that my daughter will eventually put into action all that we have taught her. In the interim I will do whatever I can do to keep her safe and well realizing that I am quite limited now that she is 18. I just pray that she will be able to recall some of what we have taught her in her time of need.

    Bob ~ I have to admit that sometimes it seems like all we do is focus on the bad with our daughter but unfortunately that is all that we seem to see lately. She brought that up and I sat down with her and pointed out how each and everytime that she had accomplished something good in her life that we were there celebrating the event proudly as her parents....always praising her and would always do so. And that if it felt like all we did was address the bad well perhaps there was more bad than good going on in her life and it was time to look at that. She works 40 hours/week and is responsible in terms of doing her job and we tell her how great that is going to be for her future. She shares with me how people at work like her and I tell her that she is a likeable person. And that I don't ever want her to lose everything that she has going for her over some bad decision that she makes.

    Today she got a call from a resort/casino that she applied to for an internship in the fall semester as part of her curicullum saying that she got one of the 5 spots available. She is thrilled and looking very much forward to that. She is going to share a house with 4 other girls when she returns to college and I am quite nervous about that hoping that she will not do anything to ruin all that she has got going on for her.

    We still are testing her for metamphetimines.....she intends to move some of her things into the house next week and spend a few days and I figure when she returns it will be the best time to test her.

    Bob ~ I also read alot about Dr. Amen and his SPECT scan and ability to diagnose ADD by the 6 types and how the person fits into them. I would like to look further into that, however, if my daughter's indicator light is not in the right mode I don't think it would benefit her to have her evaluated at this time until it changes and she matures....what are your thoughts on this??? If you could look back to when your indicator light was saying that there wasn't a problem would it have helped if your parents insisted that you be evaluated???

    Just doing my planning ahead to see what the best thing to do for my daughter would be.

    Thanks again for the wonderful support.

    ~ Goody

    Last edited by goody2shuz; 07-27-2007 at 09:11 PM.

     
    Old 07-28-2007, 02:27 PM   #14
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by goody2shuz View Post
    Bob ~ I also read alot about Dr. Amen and his SPECT scan and ability to diagnose ADD by the 6 types and how the person fits into them. I would like to look further into that, however, if my daughter's indicator light is not in the right mode I don't think it would benefit her to have her evaluated at this time until it changes and she matures....what are your thoughts on this???
    Goody,

    A SPECT scan may be just what you need to either convince daughter she has a problem or know she is simply up to no good. My best guess is daughter doesn't want to be labeled a nut-case. Kids are crazy. It's cool to "do" drugs. But it's definitely NOT cool to take medication for a mental disorder. RE: daughter's comment that "College kids just do drugs. There doesn't always have to be a problem."

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by goody2shuz View Post
    If you could look back to when your indicator light was saying that there wasn't a problem would it have helped if your parents insisted that you be evaluated???
    ~ Goody
    Yes - If the tools available today were available then - Yes

    Bob

     
    Old 07-30-2007, 08:42 PM   #15
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    Re: Adderall Abuse

    Thanks, Bob, for your continued support. I must say that since our evaluation and the pdoc's counseling with our daughter she seems to have been much more compliant, respectful, responsible and pleasant. She is taking the consequences of not being able to see friends for the month very well....she goes to work, does her household chores, participates in family events and hasn't been nasty or irritable when in the past if she were punished or restricted because of her actions she would be okay for a day or so and then totally revolt and make it seem as if we all had to suffer if she was going to....but not this time. It has been a good 2 weeks and she has been taking it all well.

    She got accepted for an internship that she applied for and has filled out all the paperwork necessary without any help on our end other than to check it over before going to have it notarized. She will be working and training at a resort/casino for her major in Hospitality hoping to own a resort in the future. She has done everything that she promised this summer in terms of saving her money and is making plans to start moving some things into the house she will be renting this year with 4 others. She plans on taking a two day trip next week on her days off to start getting the house ready in terms of setting up utilities such as cable TV, internet service, phone service and electricity.

    When I see her functioning like this it makes me think that perhaps this all is a matter of immaturity on her part and getting all caught up in the college scene....I don't mean to minimize my concerns because they are there but it's almost as if the meeting with the pdoc opened up her eyes to how her way of thinking may be harmful to her future and that it is time to grow up and take charge of it.

    When she returns we will do a drug test....the initial one was negative for the metampetamines which was a relief since when her friends were here and she texted one of them about bringing the Adderall we should have gotten a positive. I figure that if she is away a few days setting up the house with friends if she is going to slip up it'll probably be then.

    I am going to show my daughter the SPECT scan info....I found a video clip of Dr. Amen and his information with pictures that show how he can diagnose problems with this imaging of the brain and if she ever wonders if there is a problem that we will set up an appointment for her to have one. I think if I plant that in her brain that she will come to me if she has any further concerns. Also in that video clip, Dr. Amen shows a brain of somebody who uses marijuana and how if differs from the brain of somebody who doesn't.

    Thanks again for all of your help and support. I will continue to give you updates and know that there are some wonderful people here who I can count on to help me through if my concerns should escalate again.

    I am in the observation mode and will continue to monitor things with my daughter as much as is possible at this age.

    Hope everything is okay with everybody else.

    Love ~ Goody

     
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