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janewhite1 01-12-2011 06:49 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
Yes, that is how "IQ" tests are used nowadays. The psych--- looks especially for score discrepancies, because those are clues to learning disabilities.

TryAgain121 01-17-2011 08:53 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
[QUOTE=janewhite1;4660194]Yes, that is how "IQ" tests are used nowadays. The psych--- looks especially for score discrepancies, because those are clues to learning disabilities.[/QUOTE]

Yep. I've heard the reasoning that bright individuals simply [I]know[/I] there is something wrong with them, either from an neurochemistry perspective, or otherwise. Any discrepancies will be a useful tool. Not counting today, or the day of, I have two days left then I will be one step closer to solving the mystery.

TryAgain121 01-20-2011 10:30 AM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
Well, had my appointment with the psych today. He provided some interesting information. He said "some people will tell you IQ can change, others will say the opposite" and that education can effect IQ, specifically the math, information, comprehension, and vocabulary sections. A large vocabulary is a requirement for scoring extremely well, supposedly (well, in general). I became side tracked, so I forgot to ask if ADD can impair IQ scores. The test date is March 3rd, I'm hoping I perform sufficiently.

Thunor 01-20-2011 04:06 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
ADHD tends to impair 'performance' IQ scores, but not 'verbal' IQ scores. This would affect the overall score, so it's important to see the breakdown.

Case in point, my own 'verbal' IQ scored at 121, and my 'performance' IQ scored at 90, leaving me at 105 overall. Obviously, it's important to understand the sub-scores when looking for ADHD or other learning disabilities.

TryAgain121 01-20-2011 06:34 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
[QUOTE=Thunor;4665740]ADHD tends to impair 'performance' IQ scores, but not 'verbal' IQ scores. This would affect the overall score, so it's important to see the breakdown.

Case in point, my own 'verbal' IQ scored at 121, and my 'performance' IQ scored at 90, leaving me at 105 overall. Obviously, it's important to understand the sub-scores when looking for ADHD or other learning disabilities.[/QUOTE]

Verbal IQ would include working memory, so then ADHD doesn't really impair working memory then? If that's the case, I wonder what else could be causing my (working) memory problems.

But, back on track, were you able to take the test a second time and score higher when medicated? As far as performance IQ goes, are any subtests from that section timed? Is that a required component, I mean? Well, technically my psych wants to get through the entirety of the test in about 2hrs. However, if the time limit isn't necessary I would opt for that option so I could score optimally.

janewhite1 01-20-2011 06:43 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
Working memory like digit span? My digit span score was atrocious! Lowest score out of all of them, the only one that was way below average, and, digit span is very commonly impaired by ADHD.

I also had the classic 30-point spread between verbal and performance scores. Had it on the WISC at 9 and on the WAIS at 19. When I was 19 somebody finally bothered to look in a book and figure out what that kind of score gap meant. At 9, the tester looked only at the total score, and told my parents I was a prodigy and there was nothing wrong with me, feel free to punish until adequate performance is seen.

Some people with ADHD, however, are "medicated" by the excitement of testing to the point that they score normally, so there's really no saying what will happen.

Most sections of the test are timed, by the way.

TryAgain121 01-20-2011 06:49 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
[QUOTE=janewhite1;4665857]Working memory like digit span? My digit span score was atrocious! Lowest score out of all of them, the only one that was way below average, and, digit span is very commonly impaired by ADHD.

I also had the classic 30-point spread between verbal and performance scores. Had it on the WISC at 9 and on the WAIS at 19. When I was 19 somebody finally bothered to look in a book and figure out what that kind of score gap meant. At 9, the tester looked only at the total score, and told my parents I was a prodigy and there was nothing wrong with me, feel free to punish until adequate performance is seen.

Some people with ADHD, however, are "medicated" by the excitement of testing to the point that they score normally, so there's really no saying what will happen.

Most sections of the test are timed, by the way.[/QUOTE]


Will reply in fuller detail later (rushed), but I've heard someone spreading out the test during the course of several days. Is there a way to get the time aspect relaxed? Also, is it possible for someone to have an above average IQ and still score below average in more than one subtest? I suppose they would have to blow most of the others out of the water, then.

I know I've mentioned this before in a previous thread, but if my results are desultory (even on meds), then perhaps ADHD isn't the problem. Though, I suppose it would depend on the severity of it.

janewhite1 01-20-2011 07:25 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
I know I scored really low on digit span, and I think I was right around average or maybe slightly below on visual memory. (The only way I have ANY visual memory is if I start describing things to myself verbally, LOL). I can't remember the other scores now, and I have no idea what I did with the records. Wasn't real relevant once I left college.

Anyway, even with 2 low marks, my total overall score was I believe 142, so it is possible. (And that and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee.)

The fact of the matter is, the WAIS is not the best screening test for ADHD. It's there to tell you what your brain does well and what it does poorly. The results can give you better insight into how you learn and how you can accomplish things most efficiently. Might even give you a few career hints. But ultimately it's a measure of what you can do right now, not of how your brain does it. Other screening tests, especially behavioral observations and case history, are a lot more reliable.

TryAgain121 01-20-2011 10:50 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
[QUOTE=janewhite1;4665873]I know I scored really low on digit span, and I think I was right around average or maybe slightly below on visual memory. (The only way I have ANY visual memory is if I start describing things to myself verbally, LOL). I can't remember the other scores now, and I have no idea what I did with the records. Wasn't real relevant once I left college.

Anyway, even with 2 low marks, my total overall score was I believe 142, so it is possible. (And that and two bucks will get you a cup of coffee.)

The fact of the matter is, the WAIS is not the best screening test for ADHD. It's there to tell you what your brain does well and what it does poorly. The results can give you better insight into how you learn and how you can accomplish things most efficiently. Might even give you a few career hints. But ultimately it's a measure of what you can do right now, not of how your brain does it. Other screening tests, especially behavioral observations and case history, are a lot more reliable.[/QUOTE]


I'm not expecting a score nearly that high. As I'll probably get more than two low marks I suspect. I agree it probably isn't the best screening test for ADHD. I'm getting the sense you don't think ADD really impairs overall scoring. Sorry if I misinterpreted.

Honestly, though, I don't feel like my brain does anything well. I believe I missed the boat on cognitive development.

janewhite1 01-21-2011 05:52 AM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
[QUOTE=TryAgain121;4665960] Honestly, though, I don't feel like my brain does anything well. I believe I missed the boat on cognitive development.[/QUOTE]

Oh, my dear, take an actual look around the Internet one day. Do you have any idea how many adults out there can't put a coherent sentence together? Trust me, your verbal skills are extraordinary.

Yes, I do believe IQ can impact overall scoring. I just happen to test better than I do many other things. (I was 20 before I could write a simple essay without being terrified.)

TryAgain121 01-21-2011 11:54 AM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
[QUOTE=janewhite1;4666086]Oh, my dear, take an actual look around the Internet one day. Do you have any idea how many adults out there can't put a coherent sentence together? Trust me, your verbal skills are extraordinary.

Yes, I do believe IQ can impact overall scoring. I just happen to test better than I do many other things. (I was 20 before I could write a simple essay without being terrified.)[/QUOTE]

I'd say my verbal skills are just a smidgen above sufficient, as after taking the writing placement test at the local college, I got about an average score. But, you're more experienced at assessing that than I am.

Heh, aside from that test, I'm not sure what the last time I wrote an essay was.

TryAgain121 01-22-2011 01:27 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
I would also like to add that I showed my psych my college placement test scores, and he commented "your reading skills are excellent (95 out of 100), but it is hard for me to believe your math and reading skills were that discrepent."

janewhite1 01-22-2011 02:37 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
High verbal ability, just like I said. Math may be a few things. One is just keeping track of what the numbers are and what operation you are performing, I still struggle with this, even on the blackboard.

TryAgain121 01-22-2011 06:40 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
[QUOTE=janewhite1;4667147]High verbal ability, just like I said. Math may be a few things. One is just keeping track of what the numbers are and what operation you are performing, I still struggle with this, even on the blackboard.[/QUOTE]

Well, verbal comprehension maybe, but my grammar isn't too spectacular. About the math, well it had been a long time since I had been in a math class, and even then I had no ambition for the subject and developed quite an aversion to it due to perceived pressure. That, and I had a grand total of 3 hours of sleep before the test, not too mention tremendous anxiety caused by being in that environment again. Interestingly, though, my geometry and algerbra scores were 16 points apart (alg 14, geo 30). And I've definitely had more experience with algerbraic concepts.

TryAgain121 01-24-2011 06:42 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
Honestly, now I'm petrified that whatever score I attain will reinforce my own negative self-image of me being a dunce. I might only go through with the VIQ for now and try to get on some adderall before hand.

TryAgain121 02-02-2011 10:25 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
So, I was in a heated debate with someone that IQ can change, and well, most people are of the doctrine that it can't. I'm thinking of not getting tested at all as I know I won't score well and commn wisdom dictates that won't change.

janewhite1 02-03-2011 06:15 AM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
Most people are wrong.

Obviously IQ scores can change. If obstacles to testing (such as a language barrier) are removed, scores will go up. Due to more time spent reading, writing and doing abstract tasks, IQ scores have risen about 10 points per generation for the 4 generations since the test was invented. Are people getting genetically smarter? Of course not! But the environment is changing, and producing brains that are better at the sort of tasks the IQ test measures.

Most people also believe you can't change your brain, or you can't change your brain after age (Insert number <20 here). They're wrong about that, too, as recent fMRI research has shown. People believe you only use 10% of your brain. 100% wrong. People believe nerves just can't heal and nerve damage is completely untreatable. Also wrong.

All these myths are based on how science understood the nervous system decades ago. Nowadays, we see a world in which 70-year-olds visibly change their brains after learning new skills, microsurgery can stitch a cut nerve back together and eventually restore full function, and time spent on the Internet is creating a generation that THINKS in a completely different way.

I hope you get this test so you can change your negative self-image to one that's a bit more accurate.

TryAgain121 02-03-2011 11:43 AM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
[QUOTE=janewhite1;4675957]Most people are wrong.

Obviously IQ scores can change. If obstacles to testing (such as a language barrier) are removed, scores will go up. Due to more time spent reading, writing and doing abstract tasks, IQ scores have risen about 10 points per generation for the 4 generations since the test was invented. Are people getting genetically smarter? Of course not! But the environment is changing, and producing brains that are better at the sort of tasks the IQ test measures.

Most people also believe you can't change your brain, or you can't change your brain after age (Insert number <20 here). They're wrong about that, too, as recent fMRI research has shown. People believe you only use 10% of your brain. 100% wrong. People believe nerves just can't heal and nerve damage is completely untreatable. Also wrong.

All these myths are based on how science understood the nervous system decades ago. Nowadays, we see a world in which 70-year-olds visibly change their brains after learning new skills, microsurgery can stitch a cut nerve back together and eventually restore full function, and time spent on the Internet is creating a generation that THINKS in a completely different way.

I hope you get this test so you can change your negative self-image to one that's a bit more accurate.[/QUOTE]

These people were saying that IQ scores are relatively stable over time (which is true), and a change of one standard deviation is unheard of. Also, they claimed that there is a .95 reliability stat, that bascically supposedly meant IQ can't change at all (more than a few points).

What information is out there for showing an individual's IQ score can change dramatically?

addprogrammer 02-03-2011 01:31 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
TryAgain,

You got to get over this IQ thing. Jane complimented you on your written communication skills. You should accept that as positive proof that you are not in the low IQ range, heck not even the average IQ range, damn it, TryAgain, you obviously are above average.

The compliment came from Jane. Jane is a college professor for heaven sakes. She is trained to teach at the college level and trained to judge her college students performance. If Jane complimented you, it is an earned compliment, not a feel-good BS ego booster.

Another thing you need to wrap your head around. An extremely high IQ and $1.06 gets you a small coffee at a MikeyDees near me.

No one gives a damn what your IQ happens to be except you.

Jane, please confirm what follows. Jane does have an IQ in the gifted range. I'll bet you a $1.06 Jane did not list her IQ on her resume, and the department responsible for hiring, did not ask for Jane's IQ. What everyone responsible for hiring professors wanted to know about Jane is; Do you, Jane, have the skills to teach at the college level? And they wanted to see her doctorate degree, and bunch of other indicators such as her academic performance through out her college and post grad education as proof. And they wanted some evidence that Jane is a well adjusted balanced adult that will enhance the universities teaching team.

Why do you and why did I once put so much emphasis on IQ? Your self esteem, like mine, took a bad hit, from your record of under achievement. You fear, just as I feared, your record is not one of under achievement, it is the normal achievement record for low IQ, low potential, low and slow brainers that we actually are. BULL POOP. I so wish I could say the S word. Only the S word has the emphatic force that possibly can get to stop believing that BULL POOP. Jane said you are smart. Therefore the matter is resolved and closed forever. You have above average intellectual capacity. You record of under achievement is displaying the bad performance hits you taking from your ADHD. Just like me. I ain't stupid. You ain't eatter. :D

Stop it. Damn it. Another factor you will never believe until your ready. If your IQ test returns an IQ lower than you hoped, it doesn't make any difference at all. Your IQ score is irrelevant to everything you want to do with your life.

Jane doesn't need your IQ to know you got the right stuff, I don't either. It is so obvious to everyone except you that you got what it takes.

Open up your ADHD performance bottlenecks by getting the beast under control - medically. Then you can develop your potentials into achievements that span all important aspects of life.

Bob

TryAgain121 02-03-2011 02:43 PM

Re: About the WAIS-IV
 
[QUOTE=addprogrammer;4676259]TryAgain,

You got to get over this IQ thing. Jane complimented you on your written communication skills. You should accept that as positive proof that you are not in the low IQ range, heck not even the average IQ range, damn it, TryAgain, you obviously are above average.

The compliment came from Jane. Jane is a college professor for heaven sakes. She is trained to teach at the college level and trained to judge her college students performance. If Jane complimented you, it is an earned compliment, not a feel-good BS ego booster.

Another thing you need to wrap your head around. An extremely high IQ and $1.06 gets you a small coffee at a MikeyDees near me.

No one gives a damn what your IQ happens to be except you.

Jane, please confirm what follows. Jane does have an IQ in the gifted range. I'll bet you a $1.06 Jane did not list her IQ on her resume, and the department responsible for hiring, did not ask for Jane's IQ. What everyone responsible for hiring professors wanted to know about Jane is; Do you, Jane, have the skills to teach at the college level? And they wanted to see her doctorate degree, and bunch of other indicators such as her academic performance through out her college and post grad education as proof. And they wanted some evidence that Jane is a well adjusted balanced adult that will enhance the universities teaching team.

Why do you and why did I once put so much emphasis on IQ? Your self esteem, like mine, took a bad hit, from your record of under achievement. You fear, just as I feared, your record is not one of under achievement, it is the normal achievement record for low IQ, low potential, low and slow brainers that we actually are. BULL POOP. I so wish I could say the S word. Only the S word has the emphatic force that possibly can get to stop believing that BULL POOP. Jane said you are smart. Therefore the matter is resolved and closed forever. You have above average intellectual capacity. You record of under achievement is displaying the bad performance hits you taking from your ADHD. Just like me. I ain't stupid. You ain't eatter. :D

Stop it. Damn it. Another factor you will never believe until your ready. If your IQ test returns an IQ lower than you hoped, it doesn't make any difference at all. Your IQ score is irrelevant to everything you want to do with your life.

Jane doesn't need your IQ to know you got the right stuff, I don't either. It is so obvious to everyone except you that you got what it takes.

Open up your ADHD performance bottlenecks by getting the beast under control - medically. Then you can develop your potentials into achievements that span all important aspects of life.

Bob[/QUOTE]

Not too sound melodramatic, but I've failed in nearly any conceivable aspect of my life. Academically, socially,...everything. In retrospect, this whole obsession with IQ seems pointless, obviously I was looking for it to be a way to compensate for my past mistakes.

I don't question Jane's credentials. But human ability can cause fallacious beliefs in regards to gauging someone else's potential. She coud be right, she could be wrong about me. Odds are, I'm wrong about me, ad she is more likely to gauge my abilities correctly than I am. Nonetheless, these assertions have not been [I]proven[/I]. I've read accounts of people with advanced verbal skills coming back with low IQs, to the utter bewilderment of the presiding psychologist.

I won't lie, I'd like to consider myself as having well above average intellect, but that has not been proven. Beyond the whole IQ thing, though, my performance (which is NOT the same thing as smarts I know), could most likely point to some Learning Disability, or low intelligence. Everytime I have to interact with the physical world, I act like a bumbling fool.

I either have enough insight to know my mental acuity is low, or I'm a little unhinged. Either way it doesn't bode well for me :P

Finally, there is a bit of dissonance, I recognize Jane as a great authority on ADHD etc, but this does not "sync up" (couldn't find another way to word that, so much for advanced verbal skills), with my true opinion of myself.


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