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    Old 01-21-2011, 12:54 PM   #31
    TryAgain121
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by janewhite1 View Post
    Oh, my dear, take an actual look around the Internet one day. Do you have any idea how many adults out there can't put a coherent sentence together? Trust me, your verbal skills are extraordinary.

    Yes, I do believe IQ can impact overall scoring. I just happen to test better than I do many other things. (I was 20 before I could write a simple essay without being terrified.)
    I'd say my verbal skills are just a smidgen above sufficient, as after taking the writing placement test at the local college, I got about an average score. But, you're more experienced at assessing that than I am.

    Heh, aside from that test, I'm not sure what the last time I wrote an essay was.
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    Old 01-22-2011, 02:27 PM   #32
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    I would also like to add that I showed my psych my college placement test scores, and he commented "your reading skills are excellent (95 out of 100), but it is hard for me to believe your math and reading skills were that discrepent."
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    Old 01-22-2011, 03:37 PM   #33
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    High verbal ability, just like I said. Math may be a few things. One is just keeping track of what the numbers are and what operation you are performing, I still struggle with this, even on the blackboard.

     
    Old 01-22-2011, 07:40 PM   #34
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by janewhite1 View Post
    High verbal ability, just like I said. Math may be a few things. One is just keeping track of what the numbers are and what operation you are performing, I still struggle with this, even on the blackboard.
    Well, verbal comprehension maybe, but my grammar isn't too spectacular. About the math, well it had been a long time since I had been in a math class, and even then I had no ambition for the subject and developed quite an aversion to it due to perceived pressure. That, and I had a grand total of 3 hours of sleep before the test, not too mention tremendous anxiety caused by being in that environment again. Interestingly, though, my geometry and algerbra scores were 16 points apart (alg 14, geo 30). And I've definitely had more experience with algerbraic concepts.
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    Old 01-24-2011, 07:42 PM   #35
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    Honestly, now I'm petrified that whatever score I attain will reinforce my own negative self-image of me being a dunce. I might only go through with the VIQ for now and try to get on some adderall before hand.
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    Old 02-02-2011, 11:25 PM   #36
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    So, I was in a heated debate with someone that IQ can change, and well, most people are of the doctrine that it can't. I'm thinking of not getting tested at all as I know I won't score well and commn wisdom dictates that won't change.
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    Old 02-03-2011, 07:15 AM   #37
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    Most people are wrong.

    Obviously IQ scores can change. If obstacles to testing (such as a language barrier) are removed, scores will go up. Due to more time spent reading, writing and doing abstract tasks, IQ scores have risen about 10 points per generation for the 4 generations since the test was invented. Are people getting genetically smarter? Of course not! But the environment is changing, and producing brains that are better at the sort of tasks the IQ test measures.

    Most people also believe you can't change your brain, or you can't change your brain after age (Insert number <20 here). They're wrong about that, too, as recent fMRI research has shown. People believe you only use 10% of your brain. 100% wrong. People believe nerves just can't heal and nerve damage is completely untreatable. Also wrong.

    All these myths are based on how science understood the nervous system decades ago. Nowadays, we see a world in which 70-year-olds visibly change their brains after learning new skills, microsurgery can stitch a cut nerve back together and eventually restore full function, and time spent on the Internet is creating a generation that THINKS in a completely different way.

    I hope you get this test so you can change your negative self-image to one that's a bit more accurate.

     
    Old 02-03-2011, 12:43 PM   #38
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by janewhite1 View Post
    Most people are wrong.

    Obviously IQ scores can change. If obstacles to testing (such as a language barrier) are removed, scores will go up. Due to more time spent reading, writing and doing abstract tasks, IQ scores have risen about 10 points per generation for the 4 generations since the test was invented. Are people getting genetically smarter? Of course not! But the environment is changing, and producing brains that are better at the sort of tasks the IQ test measures.

    Most people also believe you can't change your brain, or you can't change your brain after age (Insert number <20 here). They're wrong about that, too, as recent fMRI research has shown. People believe you only use 10% of your brain. 100% wrong. People believe nerves just can't heal and nerve damage is completely untreatable. Also wrong.

    All these myths are based on how science understood the nervous system decades ago. Nowadays, we see a world in which 70-year-olds visibly change their brains after learning new skills, microsurgery can stitch a cut nerve back together and eventually restore full function, and time spent on the Internet is creating a generation that THINKS in a completely different way.

    I hope you get this test so you can change your negative self-image to one that's a bit more accurate.
    These people were saying that IQ scores are relatively stable over time (which is true), and a change of one standard deviation is unheard of. Also, they claimed that there is a .95 reliability stat, that bascically supposedly meant IQ can't change at all (more than a few points).

    What information is out there for showing an individual's IQ score can change dramatically?
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    Last edited by TryAgain121; 02-03-2011 at 12:51 PM.

     
    Old 02-03-2011, 02:31 PM   #39
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    TryAgain,

    You got to get over this IQ thing. Jane complimented you on your written communication skills. You should accept that as positive proof that you are not in the low IQ range, heck not even the average IQ range, damn it, TryAgain, you obviously are above average.

    The compliment came from Jane. Jane is a college professor for heaven sakes. She is trained to teach at the college level and trained to judge her college students performance. If Jane complimented you, it is an earned compliment, not a feel-good BS ego booster.

    Another thing you need to wrap your head around. An extremely high IQ and $1.06 gets you a small coffee at a MikeyDees near me.

    No one gives a damn what your IQ happens to be except you.

    Jane, please confirm what follows. Jane does have an IQ in the gifted range. I'll bet you a $1.06 Jane did not list her IQ on her resume, and the department responsible for hiring, did not ask for Jane's IQ. What everyone responsible for hiring professors wanted to know about Jane is; Do you, Jane, have the skills to teach at the college level? And they wanted to see her doctorate degree, and bunch of other indicators such as her academic performance through out her college and post grad education as proof. And they wanted some evidence that Jane is a well adjusted balanced adult that will enhance the universities teaching team.

    Why do you and why did I once put so much emphasis on IQ? Your self esteem, like mine, took a bad hit, from your record of under achievement. You fear, just as I feared, your record is not one of under achievement, it is the normal achievement record for low IQ, low potential, low and slow brainers that we actually are. BULL POOP. I so wish I could say the S word. Only the S word has the emphatic force that possibly can get to stop believing that BULL POOP. Jane said you are smart. Therefore the matter is resolved and closed forever. You have above average intellectual capacity. You record of under achievement is displaying the bad performance hits you taking from your ADHD. Just like me. I ain't stupid. You ain't eatter.

    Stop it. Damn it. Another factor you will never believe until your ready. If your IQ test returns an IQ lower than you hoped, it doesn't make any difference at all. Your IQ score is irrelevant to everything you want to do with your life.

    Jane doesn't need your IQ to know you got the right stuff, I don't either. It is so obvious to everyone except you that you got what it takes.

    Open up your ADHD performance bottlenecks by getting the beast under control - medically. Then you can develop your potentials into achievements that span all important aspects of life.

    Bob

     
    Old 02-03-2011, 03:43 PM   #40
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addprogrammer View Post
    TryAgain,

    You got to get over this IQ thing. Jane complimented you on your written communication skills. You should accept that as positive proof that you are not in the low IQ range, heck not even the average IQ range, damn it, TryAgain, you obviously are above average.

    The compliment came from Jane. Jane is a college professor for heaven sakes. She is trained to teach at the college level and trained to judge her college students performance. If Jane complimented you, it is an earned compliment, not a feel-good BS ego booster.

    Another thing you need to wrap your head around. An extremely high IQ and $1.06 gets you a small coffee at a MikeyDees near me.

    No one gives a damn what your IQ happens to be except you.

    Jane, please confirm what follows. Jane does have an IQ in the gifted range. I'll bet you a $1.06 Jane did not list her IQ on her resume, and the department responsible for hiring, did not ask for Jane's IQ. What everyone responsible for hiring professors wanted to know about Jane is; Do you, Jane, have the skills to teach at the college level? And they wanted to see her doctorate degree, and bunch of other indicators such as her academic performance through out her college and post grad education as proof. And they wanted some evidence that Jane is a well adjusted balanced adult that will enhance the universities teaching team.

    Why do you and why did I once put so much emphasis on IQ? Your self esteem, like mine, took a bad hit, from your record of under achievement. You fear, just as I feared, your record is not one of under achievement, it is the normal achievement record for low IQ, low potential, low and slow brainers that we actually are. BULL POOP. I so wish I could say the S word. Only the S word has the emphatic force that possibly can get to stop believing that BULL POOP. Jane said you are smart. Therefore the matter is resolved and closed forever. You have above average intellectual capacity. You record of under achievement is displaying the bad performance hits you taking from your ADHD. Just like me. I ain't stupid. You ain't eatter.

    Stop it. Damn it. Another factor you will never believe until your ready. If your IQ test returns an IQ lower than you hoped, it doesn't make any difference at all. Your IQ score is irrelevant to everything you want to do with your life.

    Jane doesn't need your IQ to know you got the right stuff, I don't either. It is so obvious to everyone except you that you got what it takes.

    Open up your ADHD performance bottlenecks by getting the beast under control - medically. Then you can develop your potentials into achievements that span all important aspects of life.

    Bob
    Not too sound melodramatic, but I've failed in nearly any conceivable aspect of my life. Academically, socially,...everything. In retrospect, this whole obsession with IQ seems pointless, obviously I was looking for it to be a way to compensate for my past mistakes.

    I don't question Jane's credentials. But human ability can cause fallacious beliefs in regards to gauging someone else's potential. She coud be right, she could be wrong about me. Odds are, I'm wrong about me, ad she is more likely to gauge my abilities correctly than I am. Nonetheless, these assertions have not been proven. I've read accounts of people with advanced verbal skills coming back with low IQs, to the utter bewilderment of the presiding psychologist.

    I won't lie, I'd like to consider myself as having well above average intellect, but that has not been proven. Beyond the whole IQ thing, though, my performance (which is NOT the same thing as smarts I know), could most likely point to some Learning Disability, or low intelligence. Everytime I have to interact with the physical world, I act like a bumbling fool.

    I either have enough insight to know my mental acuity is low, or I'm a little unhinged. Either way it doesn't bode well for me :P

    Finally, there is a bit of dissonance, I recognize Jane as a great authority on ADHD etc, but this does not "sync up" (couldn't find another way to word that, so much for advanced verbal skills), with my true opinion of myself.
    __________________
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    Last edited by TryAgain121; 02-03-2011 at 03:53 PM.

     
    Old 02-03-2011, 05:09 PM   #41
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    "Another thing you need to wrap your head around. An extremely high IQ and $1.06 gets you a small coffee at a MikeyDees near me."

    I think I said exactly the same thing earlier in this thread.

    But yeah, I tested out above 140 as a child and as a young adult. And for most of my adolescence it was used as a smack in the face: "You're plenty smart, why you such a screw-up?"

    It's never gotten me anywhere interesting, I can tell you that.

     
    Old 02-03-2011, 05:55 PM   #42
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    I've been staying out of this one for the most part, because I don't have a lot to say about the WAIS. I have to weigh in now though, because man, do you remind me of me. Honestly, watching how you write, and listening to what you have to say, it's like it's coming directly from me, with one important difference: I've always had complete and utter faith that I was of above average intelligence.

    For me, I simply felt lazy. To be possessed of what I felt to be a relatively superior intellect (not like I saw myself as a genius, merely above average), but still fail utterly at everything I tried had a rather negative impact on my self image. I continue, to this day, to struggle mightily with the fact that I know I'm smart enough to excel at whatever I try, but haven't yet done so. I am, however, finally making real progress, and feel that I have a brighter future for the first time in 15 years.

    The way I managed to begin to move forward was treatment. I sought a diagnosis, and followed though on it, trying doctor after doctor until I found my current psychiatrist, in whose care I've made immense progress. My self image is still pretty damaged, but I finally feel like there's a chance that I'm going to make something of myself besides a forklift driver.

    The point is, the only thing that's going to cure your self image problems is progress. If you came back with a 190 IQ, it would do little to mitigate your feelings of failure, rather it would intensify them. Success is what you need, and you're only going to get that through diagnosis and treatment of whatever's holding you back.

    You clearly have a solid grasp of English. Your grammar is strong (despite your own misgivings), your vocabulary is expansive (thanks for that one Bob, it stuck out in my mind since the day you said that to me), and your prose is both clear and effective. Were you the drooling idiot you're claiming to be, you wouldn't have such strong communication skills. 'Proof' via the WAIS will do nothing to assuage your feelings of failure, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, so turn that obviously strong ability to research information, and figure out how you're going to attain the treatment you need to function at the level you so desperately want.

    Looking back in 10 years, proof of your intellect will be apparent from the success you've become, not from your score on the WAIS.

    Geez, I feel like I'm giving myself a pep talk.

    Best of luck.

     
    Old 02-03-2011, 07:03 PM   #43
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Thunor View Post
    I've been staying out of this one for the most part, because I don't have a lot to say about the WAIS. I have to weigh in now though, because man, do you remind me of me. Honestly, watching how you write, and listening to what you have to say, it's like it's coming directly from me, with one important difference: I've always had complete and utter faith that I was of above average intelligence.

    For me, I simply felt lazy. To be possessed of what I felt to be a relatively superior intellect (not like I saw myself as a genius, merely above average), but still fail utterly at everything I tried had a rather negative impact on my self image. I continue, to this day, to struggle mightily with the fact that I know I'm smart enough to excel at whatever I try, but haven't yet done so. I am, however, finally making real progress, and feel that I have a brighter future for the first time in 15 years.

    The way I managed to begin to move forward was treatment. I sought a diagnosis, and followed though on it, trying doctor after doctor until I found my current psychiatrist, in whose care I've made immense progress. My self image is still pretty damaged, but I finally feel like there's a chance that I'm going to make something of myself besides a forklift driver.

    The point is, the only thing that's going to cure your self image problems is progress. If you came back with a 190 IQ, it would do little to mitigate your feelings of failure, rather it would intensify them. Success is what you need, and you're only going to get that through diagnosis and treatment of whatever's holding you back.

    You clearly have a solid grasp of English. Your grammar is strong (despite your own misgivings), your vocabulary is expansive (thanks for that one Bob, it stuck out in my mind since the day you said that to me), and your prose is both clear and effective. Were you the drooling idiot you're claiming to be, you wouldn't have such strong communication skills. 'Proof' via the WAIS will do nothing to assuage your feelings of failure, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak, so turn that obviously strong ability to research information, and figure out how you're going to attain the treatment you need to function at the level you so desperately want.

    Looking back in 10 years, proof of your intellect will be apparent from the success you've become, not from your score on the WAIS.

    Geez, I feel like I'm giving myself a pep talk.

    Best of luck.
    Is there a general correlation between vocabulary size and general intelligence? The way I see it, vocab doesn't necessarily mean mental strengths in other areas.

    You're right about the progress thing though, that is probably one of the few things that'll make me feel better. My "obviously strong ability to research information" has recently been called into question, I don't know anymore. I have to make an appointment with a GP, to get on some meds. I feel too scatterbrained, anxious, depressed, lethargic, in the throes of derealization to be mentally capable of anything. I have slight confidence in my verbal skills, in comparison to the rest of my atrophied or merely undeveloped skills, yet I frequently call that into question, it is just the way that I am with no real validity behind it.

    I agree with what you're saying though, if I got my Phd in Biological Psychiatry, or what have you, that would stand out more than an IQ score. I just don't even know if I'm capable of something like that. I don't want to seem I'm underhandedly making an attempt to receive compliments, this is genuine doubt. I have nothing in my past that would indicate I will be a success in the future, but I'll never find out until I can blunt this histrionic emotional pattern/ADHD. I need some damn adderall/effective therapy, or whatever.
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    Last edited by TryAgain121; 02-03-2011 at 07:04 PM.

     
    Old 02-03-2011, 07:39 PM   #44
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    I have to do this quick, so I'll be brief, but I spent a few minutes doing an internet search, and found peer reviewed articles that presented findings claiming that short vocabulary tests have a stronger correlation to general intelligence than any other single measure.

    As for the 'fishing for compliments' comment, don't worry. I could compliment you all day, and it wouldn't make a lick of difference if you don't believe it. If I thought it would help, I'd be happy to oblige, but I know how it feels to get compliments that you're convinced are insincere because your own self esteem is so low.

    As for your 'atrophied skills,' the analogy there is more accurate than you believe. If you exercise your mind and your skills, it will sharpen. That's not to say you can practice your way out of ADHD or another learning disability, but you'd be surprised at how much difference working out your faculties can make. Seriously, check out Luminosity, or The Brain Fitness Program, I've seen dramatic improvements in my own working memory since playing those silly little games.

    Gotta run. Best of luck.

     
    Old 02-03-2011, 08:01 PM   #45
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    Re: About the WAIS-IV

    TryAgain,

    Hate to tell you, you are not the unique freak mutated singularity you think you are. You are one of us, dude. I understand your thought processes because they were my thought processes and Thunors and most everyone else lurking in this space.

    Thu, don't say stuff like "Were you the drooling idiot you're claiming to be." It's too funny. You remind me of me except I'd throw in a predicating "freaking" (euphemism) before "drooling idiot."

    TryAgain,

    You are a freaking drooling idiot because you absolutely believe that is what you are.

    We always act in harmony with our beliefs we hold as absolute truth. You believe absolutely that you are a "freaking drooling idiot." Therefore, that belief governs you and enforces your speech and action to fit the pattern you believe absolutely defines who you are, a "freaking drooling idiot." You said about yourself "Everytime I have to interact with the physical world, I act like a bumbling fool." There is your proof.

    You will refuse to believe anything from anyone including those you respect like Jane that even remotely suggest you are not a bumbling, freaking, drooling retart.

    How can we prove to you that what you believe to be absolutely true about yourself is absolutely nothing other than a hot steaming plop of poop fresh out the butt end of a big bull?

    We can't. Not to worry. Thunor defined the path out. Please memorize: "The point is, the only thing that's going to cure your self image problems is progress. If you came back with a 190 IQ, it would do little to mitigate your feelings of failure, rather it would intensify them. Success is what you need, and you're only going to get that through diagnosis and treatment of whatever's holding you back." - Thunor.

    TryAgain,

    Please do not raise the IQ thing again. Just go directly to getting the diagnosis and treatment of whatever's holding you back. Success is what you need. When you see patterns of achievement and success on your psychological report card, your core beliefs about yourself will change and will be reflected in your posture you present to the external world. The bumbling fool feeling will be displaced by a feeling of confidence that you are at a command level equal to or greater than those you with whom you interface. People will respond to you with respect. They will take you seriously as man of accomplishment. People can sense what we truely believe about ourselves and respond accordingly. Another really nice benefit is you'll become a babe's man. Babes are attracted to highly confident men. They are repelled by men with low self esteem.

    Dude, skip over this IQ crap, and start the process that will transform you into person who want to be and most definitely can be.

    Bob

     
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