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    Old 02-26-2003, 11:38 AM   #31
    Jennita
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    Mahtar,

    Your comments #4 and #5 are excellent, by the way!! It's your choice to take meds, but do be on the lookout for any mental/physical problems that may develop from the sleep/food issues. If you read up on sleep stages, it is most vital for your body and brain to function and repair correctly, people who don't sleep properly are more likely to get diabetes, bi-polar, shorter lifespan, etc. This is not an arguement on my part, just a friendly concern. Anyway, you brought up some excellent points.

    And help, were you actually suggesting nicotine isn't an addictive substance, but only another self-medicating method? Like in your could just quit if you had a "normal" brain with no problem? Please, I know several smokers and their issues; give me a break.

     
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    Old 02-26-2003, 01:16 PM   #32
    help
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    I quit and I have AD/HD so I'm not saying it isn't 'addicting' or it was easy. It still smells incredibly good to me and I haven't smoked in 4 years.

    I'm saying it wasn't classified previously as an addiction illness (even when researchers new the addiction properties of it). However the definition has changed for addiction and so has research on nicotine. It is now thought that a lot of smokers who can't quit who actually want to are regulating and stabalizing their mood with it, yes self-medicating.

     
    Old 02-26-2003, 01:22 PM   #33
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    Dear help,

    I have to agree with Jennita, your comments on the effects of nicotine are incorrect. My mother just died from the emphasema from smoking..... she was addicted to it! Still smoked while on oxygen and it killed her!

    I also agree with Jennita, you did make some valid points on #4 and #5......

    *********

    For the folks that are chosing medication as a solution you must remember that it is like the street stuff.....and you "come down" to a lower place than where you started. It is a false illusion that you are more capable on drugs than not. It is masking the real problem not fixing it. If you need a stimulent to get motivated to do something that's not good, nor is it a good enough reason to be on medication. There are other ways to motivate yourself besides taking a pill.

    ******

    I guess for me I think it is much bigger than the medicating of our children.....that's just one piece of an even bigger problem here in the U.S.

    The education system is systematically dumming down our children. One way they are achieving this is through all the medication.

    The teachers have to be frustrated.....they are caught between the state telling them what to teach and what their dreams were about being a teacher.

    They no longer have time for the child/children who take more time. They teach to the low end in the classroom leaving the brighter children bored.

    For all the focus that government puts on improving education.....their motive is not to do that......they want a society of 90% low income, drugged out drones and 10% elite.

    It's time to do SOMETHING!!!!

    g

     
    Old 02-26-2003, 01:48 PM   #34
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    I do not see the problems with our school system that you do. Both of my children are being challenged in school.(neither have ADD) One has a teacher with 30 years experience and the others teacher has 3 years. My second grader has 3 children with ADD
    (1 is medicated) in her class and one girl with autism who has a full time aid. There is little or no trouble. If the school district wants success and inclusion for all children than that is what will be achieved. My third grade son is doing math with the 5 graders to keep him challenged. Parents are just as responsible to make sure their children are learning as the school system.
    If I start to see my children's education is being "dumbed down" it is up to me to correct it.

    I have no problems with motivating my self to do something. Motivation is not the issue. Having grown up with ADD and not being medicated I know that it is purely focus. No behavioral therapy could work as I had no basis for what appropriate focus was. If you do not have ADD you can only try to imagine what it is like to have 10 tasks in your mind at one time and feel the need the need to accomplish them all right away. If I can think clearly on medication and sort through the jumble that is my thought process it is truly an amazing thing.

    [This message has been edited by BRKAS67 (edited 02-26-2003).]

     
    Old 02-26-2003, 03:15 PM   #35
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    Yes, grace, nicotine is addictive; it has been proven by science long ago. Sorry about your mom, I had an uncle with that disease too. He finally quit when he got older, but the damage was already done. Did he self-medicate himself for a mood disorder, help may wonder...well, truth is, even without the cigarettes, my uncle was a happy person, even up till the end. My aunt said as he was in what would be his last hospital stay (he died there), he was cracking up the nurses on a daily basis....

    Help is buying into the new-age psychiatric version of the story... of all addictions as being not really being addictions, but self-medicating...this is truly a twisted, contrived reasearch on their part. Why? Because when one buys into that notion, the answer would convienently have to be of some inborn "mental disorder".... which would then logically require the use of medication! And logically, more people on medications mean more $$$ for the doctors and drug companies. Not for evil or conspiracy, but the reality of greed; seeing a money-making market and exploiting it. Good ol' capitalism at it's best.

    Yes, grace, this is not only about kids but adults as well; it is a "pill for every ill" movement that is getting out of hand.


    BRKAS67,

    You have some valid points. The school system varies by districts, who is running them and the teachers involved. I know ours had many helpful programs, including anger and conflict management for the students. They also had a special campus for the underachivers, to help get them back on track. We also had one of the top-rated arts(choir,drama,band) programs, which I think are so vital for social development, and as anyone knows, the incentive for good grades since those are a requirement to participate in these extracurricular activites. My daughter's grades went threw the roof when she became active in school plays and choir. I have not one complaint of our school system while my kids were growing up, despite several "troubles" with my son, but they handled it very well, teachers included.

    I guess I was either lucky or the system was much better during that time....or, as my original thought, we could just have a very well run school district! And I would have to say it isn't all about money; we live in a average to lower middle class area. After hearing all the horror stories, I am very grateful for the schools my kids attended.

     
    Old 02-26-2003, 03:25 PM   #36
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    From my experience with children that have ADD it is not a problem getting motivated, it is a problem with concentration, focus and/or thought process. With my 10 year old, all the information has been learned, but when it's time to recall it, it's as if his mind can't find it. That is a problem with thought process in my opinion and organization. The disorganization not only effects how he handles his belongings and physical surroundings, but the information stored in his brain. If this condition that he has can be corrected soon without medication, then that is what we will do, but if he requires medication then that's what we'll do. It is already effecting his self esteem and his emotions. He used to be a very happy kid, now he cries daily. I have already seen what it can do to a child with my 17 year old who is learning disabled, ADD and gifted. He is ok now, but went through some very unhappy years, being bullied and also thinking that he was stupid. He is on wellbutrin for depression which has also helped with the ADD.

    What I don't understand is why some people who have no personal experience with ADD want to argue about it on a board that is here to help people who do have personal experiences with it. It is a very real thing and not only that, it is a heartbreaking thing to see a child go through.

     
    Old 02-26-2003, 04:44 PM   #37
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    Because we are deeply concerned of the health/mental consequences from giving children controlled, addictive substances while they are still developing. Physical problems with heart/blood pressure, liver and kidney problems, mental like developing depressions, ocd, and bi-polar. This would come mainly from long-term use. Some may not end up affected, but what about countless others?

    There are already stories out there, some even involving death, which would help people with no "personal experience" realize something is wrong with this method of helping ADD....although, some of us have had personal experience or have friends and relatives, so don't assume. And don't assume anti-drug advocates don't care about the heartbreak! It's our concern for those precious little ones that bring us here away from our busy lives (why else?) We just think these kids are not being given all they should from school and medical profession alike, and are being discriminated against and being labled as mental patients when it's not so.....

    As far as bullies, I think that is a problem that will never be solved. Cowardly people who thrive on hurting others that they know can't fight back for their own feelings of superiority and hate!


     
    Old 02-28-2003, 12:41 PM   #38
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    In response to "Appalled"'s post that followed mine, I failed to express that when my niece doesn't get her dose of Concerta, her behavior returns to the way it was when she began exhibiting these signs BEFORE diagnosis & BEFORE she even took ANY meds. Those were the behaviors that got her into the doctor's for treatment to begin with. So I have to disagreee that they are "withdrawal" symptoms.

    I just wanted to clear that up for the record.

    Thank you.

     
    Old 02-28-2003, 02:34 PM   #39
    rebecarooni
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    When my ex husband's daughter came to live with us, she came with the lable ADD and was supposed to be taking Ritalin. I absoutely abhorred the idea of medicating a twelve year old so I amde sure I was the perfect parent. I was a stay at home mom, I cooked good nutritious food and sat with her each night to do her homework. Still, every morning, I would have to remind her to take a shower, to brush her teeth, to get dressed etc. If I didn't start remindng her as soon as she got up and keep after her until everything was done, she would miss the bus. And I am not talking about chores, just getting up and getting herself together. At first I just figured that she was not interested in hygeine because her mother wasn't and then I thought that she was just lazy. So I tried harder to find ways to motivate her. I made sure she got up earlier, wwent to bed earlier. I became a food nazi in terms of her nutrition. I spent more time with her on her home work. And I still struggled with her daily. I got calls from school asking where assignments were. I got calls from school to let me know that she had gone with out lunch for two days in a row because she forgot her lunch money etc etc etc. But I still felt that she could be taught to be more responsible and to take better care and pay more attention. I still felt that way up until she moved out of my house at almost 17. She went back to live with her mother and was sent to the Job Corps who did more testing and came back with a diagnosis of ADD. And this girl, who dropped out of highschool, was eventually kicked out of job corps and couldn't hold a job went back on Ritalin one year ago at age 19 and guess what? She went and got her GED and is now finishing her first year of college. Do I feel awful? You bet! So when my son started having problems, with the same attentive parenting that she was getting, (although after she had left the house) I took him through the diagnostic process. The first thing that was brought to my attention was that my sone would stop speaking in mid sentence and begin to whistle. I was also told that in story time, he would get up and wander away from the group. If someone brushed against him in the lunch line, he would burst in to tears and be darn near inconsolable. We started with the pediatrician to see if there was afood allergy or hearing or vision problem. He wasn't showing signs of lead or mercury or asbestos poisoning. And that is when the pediatrician suggested a follow up with a psychologist. I made the appointment with the psychologist and began doing research. I read about ADHD, Asperger's Syndrome, Tourette's Syndrome, OCD, SID you name it. And after doing several sessions with the psychologist, getting feed back from teacher's and aides and other family members, the diagnosis of ADHD was made. I went home and cried. I had a follow up with the pediatrician who wanted to start on Concerta but i was too afraid of the medicine to try it. We did research together and found another med that had fewer side effects so we tried it. And you know what, it was amazing to be able to have a conversation with my son and not have him rolling his eyes back into his head, beating on his chest and grunting and whistling. It was wonderful to have him come home excited to tell me of his day and not just say he didn't rememeber what they did in school. And for almost a year, he did great on one medication. His growth was not stunted, he hasn't become mentally ill or any of that. However, about a month ago, he went through a growth spurt and it became very obvious that the medicine wasn't working anymore so we changed medications. The new medication worked even better. He is in kindergarten and doing second grade work whereas previously, he couldn't even sit still long enough to learn to write his name. Now he writes stories. He never had friends before but now, he is surrounded by other children that he adores and that adore him right back. In this whole process, we have continued to work closely with the psychologist and pediatrician and done further testing and learned that in addition to having ADHD, my son is also a high functioning autistic person. I have no doubt in my mind that he is better off for having been put on medication and though I would obviously prefer that he not take meds, I stand behind our decision to do this. Now, this is not to say that it isn't tragic that so many children are medicated. I firmly believe that it is in part, environmental, part biological (whether evolution or DE-evolution who can say) but to say that these various syndromes are all because of bad (or indifferent) parenting or drug company greed is absurd. Stop and look at human beings as a species and you will see that we have become fairly weak and fragile, no one eats right and everyone is at risk for something and so on. The prevalence now of heart disease and cancer and asthma and you name it should indicate that on a global scale, something is going on. And if it seems more prevalent in the US, look at our media for crying out loud!
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    Old 02-28-2003, 06:27 PM   #40
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    I am not judging your decision, rebecarooni.

    your quote~ I firmly believe that it is in part, environmental, part biological (whether evolution or DE-evolution who can say) but to say that these various syndromes are all because of bad (or indifferent) parenting or drug company greed is absurd. Stop and look at human beings as a species and you will see that we have become fairly weak and fragile, no one eats right and everyone is at risk for something and so on. The prevalence now of heart disease and cancer and asthma and you name it should indicate that on a global scale, something is going on. And if it seems more prevalent in the US, look at our media for crying out loud!

    I am just saying that a pill may make someone feel better, but does not solve the problem.

    No hard feelings! No one has to justify themselves to me.

     
    Old 02-28-2003, 09:22 PM   #41
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    The most basic and easiest way you can tell AD/HD isn't from the environment is because everyone is brought from very different environments and we all share about 80-85% of the same symptoms...

     
    Old 03-01-2003, 03:19 AM   #42
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    The very same symptoms that can have a very wide variety of causes, but nevertheless, must all be classified ADD?

    I have seen the ADD symptoms caused by all sorts of things, from being bullied, to feeling helpless, to inadequate diet, to over-solicitious parenting, to neglect, to emotional abuse, to stifled anger, to allergies, to mold, to innoculations, to secret abuse, to the death of a loved one, to fear, to over-dependence, to any number of things, and the symptoms are pretty much consistent.
    But if we want to roll it all up into one tidy bunch, we will not discover the things we can do to make the difference we need that has nothing to do with drugs.

    Now, if you want to stop at drugs, and only try that, bless you! But if you want something different, keep on seeking, because there are other answers, and no one has the right to decide for you.


     
    Old 03-01-2003, 04:37 AM   #43
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    lol

    I didn't take 'drugs' for 20 years of my life and not knowing I was self-medicating my entire life and unhappy.. No, 'drugs' aren't the answer, but they are a good part of the answer along with other treatments as well...

    True AD/HD isn't caused from environment issues those are only other issues looking like symptoms of AD/HD..

    I find it hard/impossible to believe that having issues related to socks as a kid, for more than one person on this BBS, as a symptom and diagnosed with AD/HD, along with the other many many shared symptoms included, are not related to the same thing/disorder...

    Like I said before if it was environmental/psychological, it would not be AD/HD because everyone grows up in different enviornments; therefore, arbitrary symptoms would not surface... Besides you can see the genetic pattern of AD/HD destructive behavior down the family tree.. Not only does your parents, grandparents,etc. with the same symptoms grow up in a different environment, they grow up in a completely different economic time and era.

    By saying AD/HD does not exist because there are so called no biological tests (even if there wasn't brain scans showing biological proof) then that would mean the same way other mental disorders would not be true... You can't tell me that schizophrenia isn't a mental disorder.. Seeing things that are not there is not okay or 'different' it's a brain malfunction.

     
    Old 03-01-2003, 12:24 PM   #44
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    "[I didn't take 'drugs' for 20 years of my life and not knowing I was self-medicating my entire life and unhappy.. No, 'drugs' aren't the answer, but they are a good part of the answer along with other treatments as well..."]

    This can't be an accurate statement, because if you were "self-medicating", you did in fact take 'drugs' during that first 20 years, whether it was an illegal substance, cigarettes or alcohol, etc. Taking in any psychoactive chemical substance in significant amounts over a period of time could cause some chemical brain damage.... that can reverse without interferance of other drugs if one is willing to wait out a lengthy recovery period, which is usually not the case since most people expect symptoms not to linger very long and end up in the psychiatrist's office too soon.


     
    Old 03-01-2003, 12:43 PM   #45
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    Careyanne,

    Ever hear of a withdrawal symptom called rebound hyperactivity? It is a more pronounced version of original symptoms. How would one know if original symptoms would have lessened over the course of time...you can't know with a brain affected with drugs, which is a shame because some kids do outgrow ADD symptoms without meds.

     
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