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    Old 07-22-2003, 11:30 PM   #46
    Root
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    Pamela and Phil I was glad to read your notes. I haven't seen you for a while, Pamela. I wrote you a note in one of your message lines but I don't know if you saw it. I'm glad you came by to say hi. I'm glad you both wrote because I got really scared last night. I got so scared I was going to just forget it today and just take all the pills I wanted today but I didn't and I'm glad. I have to explain to you, especially you Phil because you have been my very good friend and I want to be like you and Pamela and Jeri and all the other ones here who don't take pills anymore. I was trying to find the lines on the front page for the ladies who wrote to me. I never did find them but Okie who is really Pamela wrote me here in my line--isn't that funny, lol? Well back on track, I read some of the other messages from the front page and I think there was only one but maybe more that said tapering doesn't work and some guy who wrote me one time was I think giving you a hard time Phil. I think he is varhua or something. I hope I don't get thrown off the board but I have to say something and I don't mean any harm to anyone but I don't think he should be trying to get people to take drugs like he did to me. I think he is trying to help everyone but I want to stop taking the pills and nothing came even close to working until I came here and started talking to you guys, especially you Phil. I printed that list you gave me and I hung it on my cork board so I wouldn't forget what to do. I went into a real big funk after I read what he said about people can't taper and they end up staying on drugs, so they should take some thing--you said it today too Phil. I think it's subzone or something. I felt like why even try if this is not going to work and I felt like I did before I came on this board. I prayed last night and all day today and I went 3 hours and 15 minutes today between my pills. I know that's nothing and I have to go a lot farther. I am not dumb. I just don't understand why people can come on here where we are trying to stop taking pills or booze or whatever and then tell everyone that they can't taper and they should take some other drug. I probably don't understand what he is saying because I didn't understand what he wrote to me even though I read it a few times. I am not mad at anyone and I don't want to get into any trouble but that message really took the wind out of my sails if you know what I mean. Now I am still confused about what to do. All's I know is that I want to get to be like Phil and Jeri and Pamela and anyone else who comes here and who doesn't take any pills at all. That is what I want and I will work very hard to make that my dream but I wonder if other people get scared too when they read that it is not possible to taper and be off the pills. I don't think I am making a lot of sense but I hope you guys who read this will be able to figure out what I am saying. But, Pamela and Phil you both cheered me up tonight and I might not be able to go too fast but I hope I can do it. I was sure I could and I think I can but I am worried now. I wish I would not have read varhua's message so from now on I'm going to stay only in those messages that seem like they are from people who want to stop taking pills. I know I could probably stop and do a cold turkey but I don't think I could do it. I really don't because I tried and it was so bad that I took twice as many pills after that for quite a while. Well, I think I'm talking in circles and for this I am very sorry. Thank you my friends for letting me write all of this and for reading it if you can ever get to the end of it, lol. I am going to pray and then go to bed and hope I stop worrying and being scared all the time. I will write to you all tomorrow but I will try not to write too much. I am saying prayers for everyone and I am sending you all lots of energy. Please send me some too. Thank you.

     
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    Old 07-23-2003, 06:56 AM   #47
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    Root, first off lets all take a deep breath, exhale. Now lets get a few things straightened out here. And this is me talking from experience and from the experiences of many others I know and have communicated with.

    If you look at the success of tapering from a statistical point of view the percentage of folks who are able to successfully taper is less then those that go cold turkey. The challenge with taper is you have to be very disciplined, you canít cheat the schedule and there is a level of mild withdrawal that can occur with this method. When you have folks that are addicted to opiates and who find it hard to control the amount and frequency of use then you also have folks that will most likely have difficulty in taking a predetermined amount at predetermined time intervals (taper schedule).

    Can taper be done? Absolutely, there are many examples of people who have successfully tapered off meds whether itís opiates or benzoís or muscle relaxers. Iím proof of tapering off opiates. There are other forums Iím part of that have a much higher level of people that utilize the taper method with fairly good success. I wonít mislead you as there are many who do not succeed. But again if you went to rehab they would also tell you that the success rate of a person staying clean (either through rehab, or taper or cold turkey) once they have detoxed is very low. Addiction is an evil powerful struggle.

    Can you, Root, taper? Only you know if you have what it takes to taper. I certainly support you and will help you any way I can. I understand what you are saying about being told of more drugs that can help you get off drugs, but you seem like me and when I was trying to get off drugs the last thing I wanted was to substitute drugs, I just wanted NO drugs. But if we are realistic, some of us no matter how hard we try just canít get over the hump, make it to the end. This is reality and there is certainly nothing wrong with this as we are all very much different and have different success rates and require different methods to solve the addiction puzzle. Using a maintenance drug such as subonoxe to taper or rehab, or for a short time or for longer periods is a viable option. I can tell you there were times when I was at my lowest point where I didnít think tapering would work for me or I didnít think I had the discipline to taper that I was seriously considering subonoxe. But subonoxe was just released and there were not to many Drís who could prescribe and I was to impatient to find a Dr for subonoxe so I turned to my Dr (PCP) and we worked hand in hand on a taper. I think I said in another post how we worked the taper was a week by week, my Dr would prescribe just enough pills to get us to the next weeks appointment. We would meet, review the progress and results and then give me the next weeks supply of pills. It worked wonderfully, and luckily I had insurance so it cost me $10 for each Dr visit and $5 for each prescription.

    Oh well long winded again, So Root the bottom line of my thoughts here is there are many ways to solve a problem, each of us has a resolution that will work best for us, we make our choices and do the best we can.

    All I can tell you is you have my unconditional support, I donít judge or become tainted, I just provide help or support if needed or wanted. And I'm really really pulling for you my friend! I want you to experience what many of us have, a life without this addiction. Life is difficult enough without drugs causing us issues.

    phil

     
    Old 07-23-2003, 07:18 AM   #48
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    Root . . . each addict can choose to get clean in his or her own way. I hope you find your path to recovery.

    My husband has been fighting his opiate addiction for 6-8 years and has relapsed so many times (he did stay clean for well over a year at one point). He went cold turkey each time and couldn't taper, even if I helped him with the dosing . . . we tried that a couple of times. This last time he was put on Suboxone and he feels great.

    There are so many ways to get clean. Varnua was just trying to help with his suggestion of taking Suboxone, just as Phil tries to help with his suggestion of tapering. They are both clean and I am glad that they are on this board talking about what has worked for them!

    Good luck to you and again, I hope you find your way to sobriety.

     
    Old 07-23-2003, 08:19 AM   #49
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    Hope you have a great head on those shoulders of yours. You are an angel, to us here and to your husband. Yo must love him dearly to have hung in there so long, I hope he understands what a God send you are.

    Be good, u r awesome!

    phil

     
    Old 07-23-2003, 12:48 PM   #50
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    Thanks Philster . . . I am the one who is blessed!

     
    Old 07-23-2003, 11:37 PM   #51
    Root
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    Wow, thank you Phil and Hope. I know you are both trying to help me but I feel very depressed. Maybe I thought this was going to be too easy? So far I have stuck to my guns but I am afraid that it might get too hard and I'm trying not to think that way because I think I will just cut my own throat. You know what I mean, it's just an expression. So I have to think real hard about what you wrote. I don't understand what this subzone is. Varhu sent me to some other place on the internet and I went there but I honestly didn't understand what it all meant. I'm not dumb because I started my own business and I am doing okay but I wish someone could tell me what it really is so maybe I could understand it. To me it looks like another drug and I don't understand how it helps to switch from one drug to another one. I stayed at the same time limit today, Phil. I didn't add any more time because I felt scared by what I have been reading here. I know I could understand if someone could explain it better. If I did the subzone thing, wouldn't I be addicted to it and then still have to go through wd's and stop it? I don't know. I don't have too much to say today so I'm going to go to bed now. I'm not mad at anyone but I feel very depressed. I just have to think more about things I guess. Thank you everyone for being so nice and writing to me.

     
    Old 07-24-2003, 11:03 PM   #52
    Root
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    Hi Phil, Jeri, Hope, Pamela, and everyone. I spent a lot of time thinking last night and I prayed a lot for me and for everyone who comes to write on this board. I don't know what is good for anyone else and I don't know if I know what is good for me but I am going to continue to taper and I will just trust that God is helping me and will keep on. I'm not going to take other drugs, but I figured out that this may be okay and even good for other people. I did real good again today so I'm okay and I have a special place for all of you in my heart. I'm going to keep quiet for a while because I think I may hurt some people by what I say and to tell you the truth I don't always understand everything a lot of you are writing about. I will keep reading every night but I'm not going to write any more at least for a while. I'm sending you all a whole lot of energy and I feel good about what I'm doing so maybe that's all I need anyway. I'm not mad at anyone and if I hurt anyone I do apologize from my heart because I was just trying to understand. I'll write some more another time but not for a while.

     
    Old 07-24-2003, 11:58 PM   #53
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    Root,Hi sweetie!You just stick to your tapper and dont let yourself get confused!The tapper seems like it will work for you and not confuse you!Some people cant tapper so the other ways are better for them.But you sem to be better with the tapper so just stick to that.And dont get stressed out by the rest of it!Or you will set yourself back instead of going forward!But dont stop posting unless you have to!It helps alot when you post.Cause you know you have people out here that understand what your going through!We know your not dumb so dont even think like that!It just gets very confusing when your trying to understand all the different ways people are trying to tell you about!I hope you get to feeling better!And let me know how you are.At least from time to time!K?I'll be praying for you sweetie!And sending you lots and lots of energy!! Love ya..Jerri
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    Old 07-25-2003, 05:16 AM   #54
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    Root my friend, don't leave us we want to know how your doing and provide support to you. Youíre doing fine, yes it is not easy to get off drugs but yes it can be done. Hey just keep working down (taper) if it goes slower then planned so be it, you have to be comfortable and you have to just keep plugging away and be positive by your progress whether it's big or small progress.

    phil

     
    Old 07-25-2003, 10:35 PM   #55
    Root
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    Okay, so I said I wasn't going to write but I saw what you guys wrote and I could not just not say something. Jeri it is so good to see you here and I thank you so much for your caring about me and writing to me. Phil you are my friend too and I still think varhu gave you a hard time but I'm not going to go there. I spent a lot of time thinking and praying today and I know in my heart that what I am doing is the right thing for me. I get too confused about all the other stuff so I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and I'll bet you one day I'll be like you guys--no pills. I'm at 3 1/2 hours and tomorrow I'm going to add 15 more minutes. I wish I could go faster but I know from the last time I'll just ruin it for myself. I see the other doctor on Monday and I will tell him how I have been helping myself. I think he will like it and I bet he will even give me something to help me when it gets real hard. I see three doctors and he's the only one I like. The one other one I see one time and then the nurse. I like the nurse okay though. Now, before you get the wrong idea they all know I see each of them so I don't sneak around like some people do. I know this will be harder but so far it's okay. I am so glad to hear from you Jeri and Phil and I will let you know what I'm doing and I hope it will all be good. I'm trying to write less so I don't rattle on so I am off to bed now. Please keep praying for me and sending energy because I do that for you too.

     
    Old 07-26-2003, 08:38 PM   #56
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    Root just keep workin it, remember progress is good no matter whether it's super fast or slow, it's still progress. Think about you every day. Prayers with you. It may seem like forever to get off the pills but once you are there time heals all wounds and you will begin to forget.

    Stay with us

    phil

     
    Old 07-26-2003, 10:44 PM   #57
    Root
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    Hi Phil, thanks for writing to me again. I am so glad you keep praying for me and staying by my side here while I do this. I went up to 3 hours and 45 minutes today. It was harder than I thought but I did it! I will stay here for a few days though and catch my breath. Plus I see the doctor Monday and I will see what he says. I know I will be so happy when I am not taking any more of these pills at all. Thank you again, Phil. You are a good friend and I pray for you too.

     
    Old 07-26-2003, 11:26 PM   #58
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    Outstanding Root, that is good news

    I think your doc will be pleased. Keep up the good work and you shall be rewarded.

    phil

     
    Old 07-30-2003, 12:00 AM   #59
    Root
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    Hi Phil and everybody. Well, I am doing very good. I went to see the doctor on Monday and he explained a lot of the things I made some notes about from what people write here. I think I understand more about the different ways people can take themselves off of these ugly drugs. I don't want to write everything we talked about because it would take too long. Plus I think most of you guys already know the stuff he was explaining to me. He was glad that I want to stop the hydros but he told me I have to work very hard and he wants me to go very slow. So he made me a list like the one you made, Phil, but I cut down for one week and then the next week I cut down a little bit more and then the next week a little bit more until I'm not taking any at all. I was honest and told him about trying to do a cold turkey and trying to go too fast and I think that is why he has me going very slow. I am okay with what he wants me to do and I think I can do it but I have to really pray a lot and have all of you for my friends. He doesn't think I should have hardly and wds so I am glad for that. I do get scared sometimes and I worry that I won't be able to do it but I know I can if I stick to the list and talk with all of you. Oh, he said if I do have wds and it gets too hard he could give me some pills to help me but not narcotics. So I just thought I would let you Phil and all my friends here know that I am doing good and I am praying for everyone. I hope you are also praying for me and sending me positive energy because I know I need it. I will let you all know how I do. I really want this bad and I know I can do it if I stick to my guns. Well, thanks for reading this and I hope everyone is doing good.

     
    Old 07-30-2003, 06:59 AM   #60
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    Root, that s great news. The Dr appt went very well. I think your new plan is great, you and your Dr are working together which is very good also. Like your doc said, you need to stay to plan and before you know it all will be over and well. Make sure you let us know how you are doing or if there are any things that pop up that we can help with.

    phil

     
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