It appears you have not yet Signed Up with our community. To Sign Up for free, please click here....



Addiction & Recovery Message Board

  • AA vs. RR



  • Post New Thread   Closed Thread
    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Old 09-29-2003, 10:25 AM   #31
    LaynesAddiction1
    Member
     
    LaynesAddiction1's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Posts: 68
    LaynesAddiction1 HB User
    Post

    ...

    [This message has been edited by AddictionMod (edited 09-29-2003).]

     
    Sponsors Lightbulb
       
    Old 09-29-2003, 11:14 AM   #32
    verylucky
    Veteran
     
    verylucky's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 364
    verylucky HB User
    Post

    Layne,
    What do you mean? That doesn't make sense.

    Take care,
    verylucky

    [This message has been edited by AddictionMod (edited 09-29-2003).]

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 11:32 AM   #33
    trinity714
    Member
    (male)
     
    trinity714's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Posts: 56
    trinity714 HB User
    Post

    I've been mulling over this topic for days now...wanting to post something, but having difficulty figuring out what it is I want to post, if that made any sense!

    One of the things that did pop into my head was that in my experience, it seems like many of the folks who don't like "XA" or don't feel it is effective are those who didn't really want to do the work. Just sitting in a meeting will probably not help you stay clean. In the program you really have to do the work...get a sponsor, work the steps, and work on yourself as a whole, including being honest, and open and also facing some tough things about yourself and your actions. I know that I tend to get disillusioned with the program when i don't want to do the work. I definitely fall into the group of people who want an "easier, softer way" to stay clean and happy...but then i realize that it's just not going to be easy. And that's OK!

    I stick with NA/AA because I know it can work. In my opinion, rehab centers and therapists also subscribe to using the program because it has the best track record of working. But again, the individual has to do the work in order to get the results, and I have seen that's where people get turned off.

    I can understand people just not being into it...but I don't understand where some of the antagonism and hostility towards people who have worked AA/NA successfully comes in. In fact, it really confuses me! Why be so violently negative about something that frankly, it doesn't seem like you know too much of? Whenever I hear someone use excuses like "it's too much like a cult," or "I can't stand all of the 'God' in it," for not liking AA/NA or thinking it will work for them, to be honest, I just get the impression that they haven't really done anything more in the program than sit in several meetings and look for the negative.

    If you have maintained years of sobriety and happiness by standing on your head, more power to you. I would never tell anyone that if they're doing something that works for them that its wrong. And I see no reason to get so anti-AA! Heck, noone's making you go, or even try it.

    I of course could say a lot more, and maybe will later. But that's it for now.

    Oh, and thanks verylucky for that website. I've always believed that addiction was a disease...there is no way that I've done what I've done due to morality or will power or poor choices.
    __________________
    "You can turn off the sun, but I'm still gonna shine..."

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 11:35 AM   #34
    verylucky
    Veteran
     
    verylucky's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 364
    verylucky HB User
    Post

    Trinity,
    Your last sentence says it all.
    Thanks,
    verylucky

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 11:42 AM   #35
    Hopefortoday
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Hopefortoday's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 707
    Hopefortoday HB User
    Post

    Well said Trinity (aka E-e-y-o-r-e)!! What I don't get is those who admit they are undecided about a method of getting clean, yet antagonize and challenge those who ARE clean and happy while working the 12 steps! You're right, it's easy to be critical when you're looking for reasons not to be there and to not do the work.

    One thing I've learned from working the steps myself is that reactions say a whole lot about where one is! I see folks on this board all the time who are at a point where my husband was 5-6 years ago: wanting to get clean on their own without anyone knowing anything about their addiction. It didn't work for my husband (he tried that numerous times). He even tried the most drastic of measures (suicide) and that didn't work either (thank God!!). That's why he finally did what all the professionals told him to do: WORK THE 12 STEPS!! That, with Suboxone have given him the happiness that he deserves.

    Life is good for us right now, other than I feel like crap every day with morning sickness!!! Take care and may God bless each and every person on this board!

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 02:08 PM   #36
    stupidchris75
    Junior Member
     
    stupidchris75's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Location: dallas, TX, USA
    Posts: 30
    stupidchris75 HB User
    Post

    OK, I have to admit that I have trouble with this notion that alcoholism/addiction is a disease too. Does the fact that it is a disease mean that you have no control over it? When I look at the definition of disease, I don't see that.

    1. a condition that results in medically significant symptoms in a human
    2. a condition in plants or animals that causes medically significant symptoms
    3. a disorder with recognizable signs and often having a known cause
    4. a serious problem in society or with a particular group of people

    To me, anything that results is DIS - EASE (un-easyness) is a disease. If I eat too much candy, I will get a stomachache. That fits the description of disease. If I over-exert at the gym one night, I will wake up with sore muscles. Is that not a disease also? When did people start thinking that the word disease meant that a person has no control over whether they suffer symptoms?

    Also, who ever said that medical science is right all of the time? Do they not disprove theories and things they once thought to be fact all the time?

    I just think that lots of factors make up a person's decision to ANYTHING to excess and in unhealthy ways. And there probably is something in our bodies that makes more of us more prone to addiction in general than others. But with the information that I have (which admittedly could not possibly all the information available!), and a liitle common sense thown in, I just can't buy that addiction being a disease as an excuse for having a hard time getting over it.

    And btw, no my husband knows nothing of my current struggles. I make as many wrong decisions about what to do with myself and my own problems as anyone else. I probably should tell him, but for now and for a long long too long list of complicated reasons, I am going to try to get through this on my own for now.

    Thanks for all the prayers and best wishes everyone...I extend the same to all of you as well!!

    Chris
    __________________
    Chris

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 02:23 PM   #37
    verylucky
    Veteran
     
    verylucky's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 364
    verylucky HB User
    Post

    Chris,
    I think you got something confused. We are talking about disease in the medical context. The AMA has classified addiction as a disease since 1956. I don't think they've classified a stomach ache from eating too much candy as a disease.

    I don't think anyone is using the word "disease" as an excuse. We are all responsible for our own actions. That doesn't mean those actions were controllable while a person is in full-blown addiction and the phenomenon of craving has set in.

    If you don't think it is a disease, then you think that people who relapse repeatedly are simply weak-willed and don't have the moral fortitude of those that are able to simply choose to quit a substance. From my experience, it's much more complicated than that.

    Take care,
    verylucky

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 02:23 PM   #38
    Hopefortoday
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Hopefortoday's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 707
    Hopefortoday HB User
    Post

    Chris, if you don't have the disease of alcoholism/addiction, what is your excuse for not quitting? Because for true alcoholics and addicts, it's not a choice, it's a disease.

    You can argue it's not a disease all you want and you can deny what experts say. The real question is, what are you going to do about your addiction?

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 02:40 PM   #39
    stupidchris75
    Junior Member
     
    stupidchris75's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Location: dallas, TX, USA
    Posts: 30
    stupidchris75 HB User
    Post

    Look, I'm not trying to knock anyone. Whatever it takes to get sober for each person, ya know? I just feel in myself that although SOMETHING makes me want hydrocodone really really badly, I don't believe that I have no choice. In fact, the main reason I am putting off getting clean this time is b/c the withdrawals seem like a death sentence to me. Once those are over, I can think clearly and I always think that I made poor choices, that I selfishly put my own high state of mind over the wellbeing of myself and my family. That I jeapordized my job, my reputation, and my health. And just think how weak, selfish, and stupid I was to do it. And that is exactly what I think of myself right now. How could I continue to jeapordize all of these things right now? Because I'm afraid to be sick for a couple of weeks? How selfish of me. That is the bottom line...I am wrong and weak and selfish to do what I do.

    That is how I see myself. If I don't have the answers for myself, how the heck would I have the answers for anyone else? I'm just mentally "masturbating" as I accuse my husband of doing...playing *****'s advocate is sometimes the quickest route to right information. I DON"T know how the AMA differentiates between a tummy ache and alcoholism...but I WANT to know! Because don't they both fit the definition?
    __________________
    Chris

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 02:46 PM   #40
    Hopefortoday
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Hopefortoday's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 707
    Hopefortoday HB User
    Post

    Chris, I'm sure most clean, recovering addicts thought their addiction was a choice and not a disease in the beginning too. I know my husband did. Getting clean is a process, not an overnight event.

    Be honest with yourself, love yourself, and take care of yourself. Until you do those things, you won't be able to stop using.

    Keep posting, because that will help you and others. Take care and may God bless you I know you have some challenges in front of you!

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 03:01 PM   #41
    stupidchris75
    Junior Member
     
    stupidchris75's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Location: dallas, TX, USA
    Posts: 30
    stupidchris75 HB User
    Post

    New thought...maybe I am choosing to believe the "beat yourself up into sobriety" approach because the thought of having to think about addiction and go to meetings and be labeled as an addict for the rest of my life is too scary for me to handle. I've seen addition in my family, noone ever got out alive. My husband is an addict, and the only thing he ever got out of AA was an "oh, pity me I am cursed with this disease" attitude. He read about RR, and instantly he became a "normal" person again. I guess everyone's personal experiences are going to dictate their beliefs. And also, this is only my second REAL bout with vics. I don't want to think of myself as a "just starting out down that road to bottom" addict. I want this to be an experience that I just get over with and move on.

    So, obviously, I have no idea what I am talking about. I just know if feels good to get the thoughts out of my head and listen to other's thoughts and reactions as well.

    Thanks again for the well wishes, and mine to you all as well.

    Chris
    __________________
    Chris

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 03:36 PM   #42
    LaynesAddiction1
    Member
     
    LaynesAddiction1's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Posts: 68
    LaynesAddiction1 HB User
    Post

    .......

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 03:37 PM   #43
    LaynesAddiction1
    Member
     
    LaynesAddiction1's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Sep 2003
    Posts: 68
    LaynesAddiction1 HB User
    Post

    ...

    [This message has been edited by AddictionMod (edited 09-29-2003).]

    [This message has been edited by AddictionMod (edited 09-29-2003).]

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 05:00 PM   #44
    Hopefortoday
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Hopefortoday's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 707
    Hopefortoday HB User
    Post

    Chris,
    I think I posted this on some thread, I don't know, maybe this one, but anyway, the following website has a real good discussion of the disease model of addiction:
    [url="http://www.addictiondoctor.com"]www.addictiondoctor.com[/url]

    Pay special attention to the "ask the dr." link... there are a lot of questions in there that I've asked a thousand times.

    I want you to know that you are not a weak person just because you can't quit drugs. That is one of the reasons I firmly believe that alcoholism/addiction is a disease process... because I know I'm not a weak person, I've overcome too much to say that I'm just not strong willed enough to choose to stop taking the drugs.

    Take care and keep posting,
    verylucky

    {website approved by AddictionMod}

     
    Old 09-29-2003, 05:36 PM   #45
    Hopefortoday
    Senior Veteran
    (female)
     
    Hopefortoday's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Posts: 707
    Hopefortoday HB User
    Post

    Chris . . . if RR worked so well for your husband, why don't you read through the website and try it? (I don't know, maybe you have!)

    Anyway . . . here's hoping you find your path to sobriety and happiness soon!

     
    Closed Thread

    Related Topics
    Thread Thread Starter Board Replies Last Post
    Retin-a-micro success stories.... Dom Acne 2 01-18-2003 07:06 AM
    Rules of the Board - please read moderator2 Acne 0 06-10-2002 08:06 PM
    If you feel suicidal, please read here.... moderator2 Acne 0 05-29-2002 06:54 PM
    All members..... moderator2 Acne 2 05-16-2002 08:18 PM
    How to use this message board.... moderator2 Acne 0 04-17-2002 07:33 PM




    Thread Tools Search this Thread
    Search this Thread:

    Advanced Search

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is On
    Trackbacks are Off
    Pingbacks are Off
    Refbacks are Off




    Sign Up Today!

    Ask our community of thousands of members your health questions, and learn from others experiences. Join the conversation!

    I want my free account

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:39 PM.





    © 2020 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved.
    Do not copy or redistribute in any form!