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    Old 12-30-2003, 11:22 AM   #1
    John 808
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    Unhappy Feel Worse Than Ever

    Hey ya'll,

    Alot of you know me and know my story. If you don't, a quick synopsis- I have been addicted to pain meds on and off for three years ending up with a 25 a day habit after the birth of my third child (have three little ones five and under). I went to a sub doctor and was put on subutex about seven weeks ago. Recently, stopped the sub and went a hydro binge (went through about 300 in two weeks...I know...YIKES!). Went back to the sub (four days now) and after reading some other's struggles getting off the sub, feel like I am trading one addiction for another. So, talked to my husband and he talked to my sub doctor today. They first discussed the Xanax issue- my sub doctor says NO WAY to me taking Xanax, my pshychiatrist says I need it as I have severe anxiety disorder. Now, I have taken Xanax for nine months and have never abused, never had a desire to abuse, it does nothing for me but calm me down when my anxiety "kicks in." Back to my sub doctor, he told my husband that benzo's are the most addictive drug there is and they should be banned and no addict had any business taking so if I wanted to stay on the sub program, I would have to get off the Xanax. Then, they discussed the sub. My husband asked would it be diffucult to get off and would I have withdrawals? His answer was Yes and Yes to both questions- so what's the point of the sub? Next issue, he told my husband I needed to be put in detox/treatment. I have heard horror stories of treatment centers- does anyone have any experiences with detox. My husband is now convinced that is what I need. I have cried all day- I feel more depressed and in despair than I have felt in a very long time. I actually told my husband how unhappy I was and didn't even know if I did the right thing in marrying him- now where did that come from????? I just need some advice- sorry for the pity-party as my husband calls it but he has no idea what I am feeling- I don't even think I do? What would ya'll do if you were me? HELP!!!

    Michelle

     
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    Old 12-30-2003, 01:49 PM   #2
    Banker
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Oh Michelle - what a nightmare you must be going through. I know that you absolutely do not want to go to rehab because of your kids and because of some of the stories you've read. I can't believe this doctor... I told you what that other doctor told me (the addictionologist) which is that NOBODY should be on xanax and that it is just achohol in a pill form. Whether it is or isn't, I just know that without them, I would still be freaking out ALL of the time. I used to wouldn't even drive on the interstate because I was so scared so I would go back roads and a 30 min drive to work would end up being an hour and 20 minutes. Also, I used to wake up in the middle of the night thinking someone was breaking in. I lived in an upstairs appt. (w/my husband at the time) and I would get up about 8 times a night to go look out the windows to make sure we were safe. Now, I don't seem to have these 'unrealisitic' fears because of my benzos and like you, I don't abuse them either. I know how you feel because when I walked out of the first doctor's office, I felt like I had no hope for getting clean because he wanted me off of Xanax and everything and I knew I couldn't stop the Xanax. I just needed help getting off of hydros. I swear, that day I cried all day long thinking I would end up killing myself because I had no hope in getting help for my addiction. But, I went and found another doc the very next day and he's the one that put me on sub, etc. I promise you I know that hopeless feeling. You have to come up with viable options. What can be done to help you get clean? Can you find another Sub doctor? In reality, was the sub working for you that well anyway? And why didn't he put you on Suboxone instead of Subutex? Unless you have a reaction to Suboxone, Subutex is not to be prescribed for maintenance as it does nothing to block the effects of opiates. (from my understanding) Also, your husband needs to go to Alanon, desperately. He needs to understand that this is a disease and you are not a bad person!! Also, be patient with him since he doesn't know much about it and don't take his words personally. (easier said than done). O.K. Back to your options - I know people personally that have attended AA and NA meetings and it has been the key to their success. I mean they attended sometimes two meetings a day in the beginning and about 4 a week after that. Even if you go into rehab, you are going to need these meetings. Remember, everyone says and i believe this that this disease is bigger than we are. We 'are powerless over this illness'. You can't do this alone and I know you want to so desperately. You could try to take sub just for a few days to get through the worst of the hydro withdrawal (which after four days, you are probably already getting there) and then stop taking them. The cravings will be hard along with the depression and everything else but that's what the meetings are for. Does your husband want you to attend meetings? Do you think this is a possible plan that he's willing to agree to and that you are willing to agree to as well? Maybe you can tell him that if you go this route and you fail, then you will go to rehab. I know rehab has helped a lot of people too. I think the worst part about it is that sometimes (and I do mean sometimes) they don't prescribe the right medication for the withdrawals and since you are through the worst part, maybe it would be beneficial? Do you think that it is an option at this point? I know that you said your husband can't take care of the kids the way you do but you do know that he will at least love them and take care of their basic needs. Nobody cares if their hair isn't perfect all of the time. We are talking about your life here and your children need a mommy when they grow up and if you don't get some kind of help, they won't have one. I know you know all of this.... the thing that will help you right now is to get a plan on how you can get better. If you want to stick with the sub route, then maybe you could go to another doctor, even if it means driving a few hours? I'm really, really sorry that you are having to deal with this right now. I promise, there is light at the end of the tunnel and there are options that you can chose from. I'm praying so much for you and please, please write as often as you can.

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 01:56 PM   #3
    lane7eir
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    hey michelle-
    i personally neverwent to detox for my alcoholism but my husband did for his hydro addiction. he said detox itself wasn't too bad. he was drugged up on ativan the first couple of days so he would sleep through the worst of the withdrawal. he said his days were pretty structured, meetings with counselors, group, etc. however, the one thing he was upset about was at discharge they kinda just open the door and say good luck, here's an aa/na list. what they didn't tell him (as he tells it) is how long the cravings last (months) or how deep his depression would be. needless to say, he relapsed and is now on a mmt program which i have to say is doing wonders and has given me back the man i married (for the most part-sex is still an issue). anyway, i'm rambling. and it's time for me to leave work. hope this helped. have a good night, i'll try to get online when i get home.
    laney

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 02:02 PM   #4
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Thank You Michelle sounds like we are in the same boat with the exception half of the 120 are for my wife so she knows what the scoop is my children are young so they are doing well and are well taken care of and loved very much Thats the hardest part for me the kids I want to be a strong Daddy for them and I am as long as I'm medicated! I hope you can work things out with your husband and yourself.

    Last edited by DrewBlood; 12-30-2003 at 02:06 PM.

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 02:08 PM   #5
    John 808
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Thank you so much, Banker!

    I just wrote to someone on another thread and encouraged them to continure posting even if they "mess up" because it makes you feel so good to here words of encouragement and you are always so supportive and make me feel better (well, just a little today )>

    I took 16 mgs sub Sunday, 12mgs Monday, and 8mgs today. I have had an upset stomach, am very emotional (crying, crying, crying), a little lethargic, not sleeping well, and haven't had the sweaty feeling as of lately, but I am today. I think I may drop to 4mgs tomorrow and maybe 2mgs the next day and quit. We'll see what happens. I am just so mad at myself and wonder why I cannot be happy- I have everything a woman could possibly want. My children, my husband (who if fairly supportive and loving- doesn't full understand), my ability to stay home and raise my children, financially blessed, and so on...so what is wrong with me? Even before I began abusing I don't think I have been completly happy- I think that is one reason I ended up abusing. I just can't make heads or tails of any of this. I know I have not been relying on God's strength and I don't know why??? I haven't prayed in days...why??? I just feel like I am in a big black hole and I have no idea how to get out and to have these three little innocent faces asking me why I am crying and why am I sad, just kills me.

    I just don't think I am cut out for rehab- I just don't think I can do it. And if they take my Xanax away...I will definately have a nervous breakdown. Atleast right now.

    Thanks again for responding so quickly and I hope you are doing well. I am so proud for your month. Before you know it, it will be two and then three. YEAH FOR YOU! Keep up the good work and God bless,

    Michelle

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 02:12 PM   #6
    spark-o-cet
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    mechelle please dont let my experience with sub ruin your chances with it.everybody is different and you might not have any trouble at all gettin off sub so dont lose the fight before it starts.if you can take the sub every other day then that is great and a good start as i could not do this at all had to have it every day no matter what.use what you have left on a every other day schedule and keep lengthing the time that you take the sub by one hour every week if you can and you can do this.i have felt a little better today but not much but a little is better than none to me.i feel for you and now is the time to set down with the man and come up with a plan and stick to it.NO MATTER what you do there will be some w/ds to everything so just count on this when you are makin the plan.how much sub do you have left and how many hydros do you have left.nothing will work until you decide to make a change so if you are not ready then there is nothing nobody can do at this point-spark

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 02:16 PM   #7
    John 808
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Thanks, too, Drew. My children are all five and under and like you, I feel at my best when I am on the pain meds. That can't be right though. Gotta get something worked out. My very best goes out to you and your family!

    Laney, thank you as well for your input on detox. I think the doctor used the term "hospitalized treatment." He was even telling my husband about this great clinic in Oklahoma..hello..we live in Mississippi. So, sounds like he has plans for me to be in there awhile. Don't think I can to it! Thank you though and best of luck to you and your husband. Hope "everything" gets worked out !

    God bless each of you,
    Michelle

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 02:25 PM   #8
    John 808
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Spark,

    Wasn't just thinking of you alone- the sub doctor flat out told my husband it was not going to be easy and there would be withdrawals. I have about 40 8 mgs of sub tablets and 120 hydro's (10/325). I have stuck to the sub and am going to try that route- I HAVE TO MAKE IT THIS TIME- HAVE TO! If not, my husband said we would have no other choice than to put me in the hospital and like I said they were talking about a hospital in Oklahoma. I cannot be away from my babies that long. I have no other choice than to get it right this time. I am sick of this cycle- it has taken its toll on me emotionally. I firmly believe my brain is messed up. I cannot continue to live like this- so it is do or die this time.

    You hang in there and I am glad you are feeling a little better. Hey, question, I have been having alot of "tingling" in my fingers, hands and arms. Did you do that? Just curious. My thoughts are with you, Spark. I truly appreciate your concern and if you need mine..just let me know.

    Michelle

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 02:52 PM   #9
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Michelle - I can relate about the not praying issue. There have been times when I feel so badly about myself, I don't feel 'worthy' to pray. And then sometimes when I've been really depressed, I think that it wouldn't help if I prayed anyway. Now, you and I both know that it does help to pray and that God listens to us. The reason I felt this way (and I think you are feeling this way too) is because I was terribly depressed. You said you have everything you wanted but are still unhappy... you know some people's depression stems from a true chemical imbalance that has nothing to do with their situation or what kind of childhood they had. Are you currently taking an anti depressant? I'm surprised that your phsyciatrist would prescribe Xanax but not an anti depressant. Some doctors think anxiety is a symptom of depression and that soemthing like Zoloft or Lexepro (or any of the tons of other kinds out there) will help and it has helped me too. Let me know and keep your chin up... just like Spark said.. you need a plan and you need to stick to it. Michelle, remember what I said about you having those 10 in your purse, well..... what are you going to do with the 120 that you have? The biggest question, just like Spark said, is are you ready? If so, you know what the answer is! If you are not ready, your time will come. I didn't stop and/or seek help until I was ready.

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 03:36 PM   #10
    yinksy
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    Cool Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Michelle
    My heart just goes out to you! I had 4 children under the age of five when I had to battle addiction. And I so agree with Banker. This is a disease - you cannot do it alone. I finally threw in the towel and went to AA - it was the turning point for me.
    I had years of being clean and then developed another addiction - 3 years ago -to ativan. ( a dreaded benzo) I blame my doctor for being so stupid as to put me on them without warning me of the dangers. But I have successfully - again using AA philosophy and help + expert medical help - got clean. My 3 mg of ativan were changed to 30 mg valium and I tapered off slowly.
    Dont despair - but dont try to do everything at once. First deal with the opiate addiction - it is easier to do than getting off the xanax. There seems to be some great advice offered here - and you should - with help - be able to get off without having to go into rehab. For what its worth - I hear very little good talked about rehab. Addiction is a life long disease which you have to acknowledge and then deal with. Once you have admitted it - which you clearly have - seek help from people who have already been thro it - and take control of your life again. Only you can determine when you are ready to do this. And I hope its now. Dont try and go it alone. I know the guilt you carry because of your children. But - this time - you have to put yourself first and get clean for you! If you get well - everyone will benefit. You cannot do this for your children - you must do it for you. If you remain addicted then you will lose out as will your children. So - for now - its you who is important.
    Tackling the xanax is for the future when you have kicked the opiates. Xanax - being a benzo - takes a long long time to taper off. 1 mg xanax = 20 mg of valium. You cannot do cold turkey and you will look at months of slow tapering. Dont worry about anxiety. Some people say that xanax actually causes anxiety and when they gave it up were very surprised at how the anxiety just left them. The benefits of benzos disappears after a few weeks use - then tolerance sets in and the drug then just produces dependency and some unpleasant side effects. The efficacy of the drug has disappeared a long time ago.
    Michelle - dont despair - you have shown great self knowledge. I think you are in a strong position now to finally kick those opiates. Take advice from everyone here - everyone supports you. Always remembering that you are not bad or weak - you are desperately sick. But you are lucky - you can reach out and grab the tools for getting better. Addiction is a life long illness - but one which is very treatable. You can have your life back but must remain ever vigilant - on a daily basis. But - you are never alone - there are literally millions of us out here - all leading happy productive lives - one day at a time!
    Michelle - I just wish I could reach out and help - all I can do is offer a hand of friendship at this difficult time. I have been exactly where you are. I am now living a happy life with 4 grown up well adapted children, I have a wonderful husband, a part-time job etc etc. It can be done! There is proof of that all around you.
    Wishing you well - make 2004 the most memorable of your life by taking control again. You have everything to live for...............and it really does get better - beyond your wildest dreams!
    yinksy

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 03:52 PM   #11
    Bodymechanic
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Michelle

    I did my very best to warn you against using other opiates while your taking suboxone. It really messes with your brain. Depression, anziety and feelings of hopelessness are exactly what I experienced when I took oxycontin for a few days. Please don't do this again. It is going to take a week or two before your brain adjusts again. Keep looking until you find a doctor who can meet your needs.

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 06:39 PM   #12
    John 808
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Thanks ya'll for all your responses. Yinsky, I appreciate the time it must have taken to write such a long, but touching post. Thank you!

    Some of you will not agree with what I am going to do, but I have to give it one more try. I have talked with my husband for hours about what to do. He is leaning towards hospitalization, but I just can't agree to that yet. He and my doctor talked about a hospital in Oklahoma and my doctor said we would be looking at a three or four month stay. I just can't do that. That is motivation for me to try one last time to get clean on my own- well, I will have a little help. My husband is fully aware now of everything that is going on and I am going to start attending meetings once a week at a local church for addictions. I just cannot imagine being away that long from my babies. I will get clean for that reason alone. Don't mistake that I don't want to do it for me- I want more than anything in the world to be free of this insane hold these pills have over me! I know I can do this- my brother beat stronger addictions cold-turkey and there are people on this board who have done it. I do have the sub to taper with or the hydro's to taper with. I have yet to decide which way to go and would like your advice on that- PLEASE! I realize I have to choose one or the other and stick to it. It is like I said earlier- this time, it is do or die. I am so ready for a happy, healthy life.

    I do take Lexapro for depression and ofcourse, the Xanax, as needed. I will address the Xanax issue once the pain med issue has been dealt with. I was somewhat of an insecure person as a teenager which led to me being a perfectionist as an adult. I put way too much pressure on myself on how I look, my weight (if I get a pound over 110 and will go without eating until I drop it ), my house (it has to be in tip-top condition), my church activites (can never say "no" and am always cooking for someone, filling in for Sunday School classes, etc), just added pressure on myself. I have got to learn that everything will never be perfect- including me. I think that has led to alot of my unhappiness and depression. I get "down" so easy! Anyway- I am babbling I know. I am just trying to make some sense of all of this. I have cried so today that my eyes are actually hurting.

    Please give me your advice on the best way to taper- remember, I have about six weeks. I DO NOT WANT TO BE HOSPITALIZED! Please help see me through this and help me not to fall- I'll need ya'lls support more than ever.

    I wish the very best for each of you and your daily struggles. Congratulations to all of those who have beaten this ugly battle and I hope in a few months I can be one of them! God bless,

    Michelle

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 07:52 PM   #13
    Banker
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Hey - you sound so much better! I'm so glad. I could feel your overwhelming feeling of hopelessness in your first post. I can tell that you can see a light at the end of the tunnel and I'm so glad. Michelle, please, please don't take another Norco. My vote (for whatever it is worth) is for you to continue to taper off of Sub just like you said before. 2 mgs per day. You went two weeks without taking them and I believe that is going to help you on the withdrawals from it. If you start feeling withdrawals once you stop them... which should be in 3 days, I think... then maybe take 1 or 2 mgs as needed which hopefully would be every other day and then every 3 days but only take it if you feel really, really sick. If you can stand it, try not to if you really don't want to take sub anymore. I'm so glad you are ready! You are also very lucky to have a supporting husband. Even though he might get frustrated, that's only normal with the fact that he simply cannot relate to what we all deal with. Also, while you are going through this and feeling this depression, you might want to consider talking with the phyciatrist about either upping your lexepro or changing because you are going to need something that really helps fight depression and right now it doesn't sound like it's helping you. Just a thought... maybe once you get in these meetings... your depression will ease up with the help of everyone there and their support and the 12 steps. I'm VERY proud of you! Even though I'm a firm believer in meetings, I haven't started going yet. I'm still a chicking poop. I have a counselor that I see every single week and I've been going to her for about 4 years. She has been helping me with the addiction piece since she didn't even know until about 3 months ago. She is wonderful... she calls and checks on me. It's like she really does care. I also have a wonderful friend who knows EVERYTHING and she listens to me ALOT about how I feel and what I go through. However, the Sub is working so well, I just really don't even want to take hydros right now. Like I said before, I really like the way I feel now better than when I was abusing. I'm afraid that I will be one of the 'lifers' on Sub which is something I will be o.k. with since I'm not continuing to ruin my life. I don't know... I hope maybe one day I can get off of it but I try not to think about it right now and just focus on being happy again and not thinking about getting pills 24/7. Also, give it your all with your new plan and please trash the hydros. We have no control over them, Michelle. With the help of your na/aa group, you can be successful and I'm praying so hard for you that you will. You will have accomplished so much and you will be so proud of yourself. I promise, you will have a different outlook on life. No matter what, don't stop posting on here. Take care and keep us posted. One more thing... think you can try maybe 2 or 3 meetings a week instead of one? In the beginning, I'm just worried that you will need more than once a week. But hey - going once a week is a heck of a lot better than not going at all so if that's all you can do for now, then you are still doing wonderfully! Remember what someone else said (I think Phil)... Imagine your goal, visualize it, and see in your mind how beautiful it will be when you are your normal self again! Actually, I bet you will even be happier than before you started the drugs. Sorry this is so long... I'm just so happy that you have a plan!!!!! God does listen and answer prayers!

     
    Old 12-30-2003, 09:08 PM   #14
    spark-o-cet
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    bein that you are already usin the sub i would stay with it but began the taper on it tomorrow.use it every other day and lengthin the time between doses as much as you can.i think it was bodymech that said usin other opiates while the sub is still on your brain really messes you up and i agree 110% on this as it happened to me and i have preached on here about not usin opiates while the sub is on the brain as it will make you a complete zombie.i see no reason why you should have to go to rehab unless you want to as you can beat this if you reallly want to,but you have got to want it now.give the hydros to your man to hold and if you decide to taper usin the hydros he can controll the pills.since you are takin the sub i would use it until it is gone but you need to start taperin the sub tomorrow and stick with it.get down to 2mgs per day for 2weeks then 1mg then .5mg then c/t the rest of the way.no matter how you do it there will be w/ds so just prepare yourself for this and let husband no about w/ds so he can help you thru them.like i said before nothin will work not even inhouse rehab unless you are ready to make the change.you are in my prayers girl and i know you can do it and im pullin for ya all the way and if i can help just let me know.as you know im still fightin my own battle but i do see light but it is very far away but i see it-sparky

     
    Old 12-31-2003, 06:17 AM   #15
    rlcowboy
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    Re: Feel Worse Than Ever

    Hey girl, I know I am gonna have to do something to get offf the pain meds as soon as I recover from the next surgery! Lots of folks say dont beat yourself up too bad cause I DO have a legit reason to be on them right now, but I know in my heart that I will have to go through a tuff time to get off them, and I dont know how I will deal with the pain if it does not go away after this next surgery, I do know my ortho doc thinks Im addicted to the meds ,he told me that,but he is giving them to me right now because I am one week out of major surgery and 3 weeks away from 3rd surgery. I have asked him to help me tapper as much as possiable and he just said it wont be easy ,and I know that, but I really hope I can do it without detox, just like you I have read too many horror stories about detox! I really hope to tapper down to crumbs ,like our friend Philster did, and then tackle the withdrawals cause I know I WILL have to face them sooner or later. Maybe a good Detox program with the Activan for w/ds would really really help, but too many detox programs that I have read about just want you to bare with as much as you can and they just monitor your vitals? I have never been to detox so I do not know, but I would be, let me say I AM very interested in what you decide to do, so please let me know, and you take care of yourself and I hope your spouce can understand what you are going through cause I DO KNOW how important that part is anyway! And try and stay away from the hydros if ya can, I know easier said than done,lol!!! Stay Strong!
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