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    Old 03-24-2004, 05:20 PM   #1
    CromeYellow
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    Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    I have detoxed from heroin twice with Buprenex. These were after two fairly short (2 -3 month long) relapses. The first time I did not experience much, if any, withdrawal. It was beautiful. The treatment period was about fifteen days. I used 3-4 vials per day the first 3 days, then 2 vials per day for a few days, then one vial per day for a few days, and finally stopped when I was down to less than 1/2 a vial in a day.

    A year later when I relapsed again, the Buprenex did not work as well on me. I injected nearly seven of the 5mg vials the first 12 hours alone, until I felt normal, and because I used so much the first day my ninteen vials lasted me only 5-6 days. I figured that was enough but the Buprenex itself had some nasty side effects for over a week which included chills, WEAKNESS, extreme insomnia and night sweats. Of course some of these may have been from the heroin but I think it's unlikely to have chills and sweats ten days after stopping a relatively mild heroin habit (about 1/4 gram a day for 2 months).

    So, in short, Buprenex EASES the symptoms of withdrawal but does not necessarily eliminate them. Also, there is no telling how much you may need depending on the severity of your habit.

    I hope never to go back to the horrible drug, but if I do I have not found anything better than Buprenex to kick with. I think this is it for me. Before my two relapses I had ten years clean and sober and in between the relapses was clean a year, so I do know how to stay clean. Maybe it is just as well that this Buprenex W/D was NOT painless. It will make me think twice about EVER using again.

    Good luck.

    And methadone is not the answer either. It's just substituting one form of opiate for another.

    I would like to add that the reasons I relapsed were simply -- I was not going to N.A. or "Smart Recovery" meetings regularly and I was not in contact with my N.A. Sponsor. When I work a good program of Recovery I do not relapse. So the fault was mine...we heroin addicts CAN stay clean for good.

     
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    Old 03-24-2004, 05:58 PM   #2
    Banker
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    Thank you for telling us your story. I am actually trying to recover from lortabs. I was up to about 20 a day and my mother accidentally overdosed from lortabs about 7 years before my habit even started.

    I am now taking bupenephrine (Suboxone) as a maintenance drug for about 4 months now and it has really changed my life. It is prescribed for either detox (short/long term) or for maintenance. It is very possible that I could end up staying on this drug for the rest of my life. I just don't know.

    I realize that Sub is an opiate and I AM substituting but I am not killing myself with lortabs. In addition, I am making responsible decisions and living my life unlike I ever have in the past. I went to my counselor today (who I've been going to for years - WAY before the addiction started) and she literally said 'Who are you?' because of the responsible actions I am taking to get my life back in order and keep it there. I'm a single mother of three young children. In addition, I'm a Vice President of a bank and I almost lost everything due to drugs. I could have easily lost my children and my job but I DID end up losing my house and having to file bankruptcy. In fact, I go to court tomorrow morning about it.

    I am very happy that you are able to stay clean with the help of NA/AA and/or SMART! I've basically heard (and seen for myself) that without the assistance of these programs, one cannot stay clean by themselves and I completely agree. The drugs are stronger than we are and we cannot do it alone.

    Again - not sure what my plans are for the future - I don't really miss lortabs at all... but I miss the ability to drink --- and I mean, just a glass of wine. Even though there were times when I would be terribly drunk, there were also times when I COULD just have one or two drinks and be fine. I cannot do this anymore because I cannot mix the Sub with drinking.

    Thanks again for telling us about you. You have a lot of wisdom and help to offer a lot of people. I do have a question - do you know what one of those vials equals as far as mgs for Suboxone and Subutex? I'm curious as to what I'm taking, compared to what you needed during detox.

     
    Old 03-24-2004, 11:11 PM   #3
    chefob1
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    cryyellow...i was injecting buprenex for four years to try to maintain...its an opiate just as methadone....i believe you meant .3ml vials...that is what i was on....3 a day to start.....you were experiencing heroin s/effects...buprenex is the parental drug of suboxne/subutex.....i was amused when folks thought that bupenorphine was a miracle drug...there is no such thing period when it comes to opiates.....all opiates bring w/d's and in the end we all deal with the same damm emotioins fightin this disease we all own for the rest of our lifes................the way i look at it...if a person had a pill problem with vicodin..and they were put on oxycontin they would say wow...no w/d's...no kidding......chef

     
    Old 03-25-2004, 05:41 AM   #4
    KIMBEE
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chefob1
    cryyellow...i was injecting buprenex for four years to try to maintain...its an opiate just as methadone....i believe you meant .3ml vials...that is what i was on....3 a day to start.....you were experiencing heroin s/effects...buprenex is the parental drug of suboxne/subutex.....i was amused when folks thought that bupenorphine was a miracle drug...there is no such thing period when it comes to opiates.....all opiates bring w/d's and in the end we all deal with the same damm emotioins fightin this disease we all own for the rest of our lifes................the way i look at it...if a person had a pill problem with vicodin..and they were put on oxycontin they would say wow...no w/d's...no kidding......chef
    But would you not agree, Oxycontin doesnt make you feel as clear headed as the suboxone? And with oxys you have to continuinually go up on your dose, not so with suboxone. As a matter of fact less is more with suboxone AND you do not feel high at all on the suboxone as you would on oxycontin. I dont really think you can compare the two, can you? That statement just thru me a little. Oxycontin is so so dangerously being abused and theres no way you can abuse suboxone. I will still stand strong on the Suboxone for it has saved and totally changed my life! Hope you are doing good also, take care.

     
    Old 03-25-2004, 09:08 AM   #5
    Banker
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    Ditto Kimbee ---- no comparison between an opiate that gives you a high and an opiate that you cannot abuse and does NOT give you any euphoric feeling whatsoever. Kimbee... hope you are doing well.

     
    Old 03-25-2004, 12:11 PM   #6
    chefob1
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    how can you guys say that there is no comparison between opiates?...first let me clear up any confusion on my statemnt....what i was saying is if you only did hydrocodone,no other opiates,ever......and you took oxy,the oxy would take away your w/d's....i wasnt saying take 30 of them.....if you had a habit of 10 vikes a day,as we know,and you took one 5 mg of oxycodone,chances are you wouldnt feel euphoric but it would releive some of your w/d's.....now,in perspective,as i know..ive takin bupenorphine for four years,i think that can clarify as having knowledge of the medicine,that the only reasonj i took the med was to releive the w/d's....thats probably why everyone takes bupenorphine....so they wont have w/d's from their drug of choice.....well,buprenex/subutex/suboxone or all the same drug...bupenorphine...
    and it is a opiate....the same as any opiate...same characteristics....same as darvocett,dilaudid,morphine,heroin,lorta b,percodan,ect....they are all opiates...and what happens when you stop taking opiates....you have w/d's when youve takin them like most of us have....when you stop buprenex your going to have w/d's...that is what im saying....and it is the same thing...same coin...same old song and dance...and if you were to take some other type of opiate,your withdrawing from the bupenorphine now...your going to releive your w/d's....do you understand what im trying to say here...there is no difference if you wish to releive your w/d symptoms its the point your releiveng the symptoms....and your doing it with an opiate...sure a morphine pump is different than tussionex...its the point when all is said and done,they are both opiates.....and after prolonged abuse cause the same thing....the drugs are stronger than we are and we cant do it alone...so we take a different opiate...sounds like the same thing to me....an opiate is an opiate....

     
    Old 03-25-2004, 12:21 PM   #7
    chefob1
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    ps...banker,you stated you were substituting one drug for another and then in the next sentence your saying your clean...i know wher your comin from cause i still am clean...i take 60 mg of methadone instead of the bupenorphine...when i go to my a/a meetings though,i dont declare my sobriety...not just yet...im still on med to i can clear my head up and beaat this disease after it destroyed my life.....i lost my wife and kids along with my job,so you are blessed my friend...anyways,gettin back to where i was...by the way,im not arguing with ya and i hope your not offended.....but the way i look at it is we are substituting,we are runnin from the enevetable until we can comes to term with our disease and personally i wean off the methadone very slowly,just like youll have to with the suboxone.....and when the time is right and we have weaned down,we stop taking opiates all together....an opiate is still the drug of our choice...that is not going to change....anyways,are here to support you guys,not bicker............but to me,a opiate is a opiate......and there isnt a difference...in the degree of w/d symptoms,ill still have the same,when it comes time...severity varies from person to person..........chef

     
    Old 03-25-2004, 12:56 PM   #8
    chefob1
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    i forgot one other thing.......they put the naloxene in suboxone for a reason....so it wont be abused....now i asked the same thing to my new doc last june cause i was on buprenex for four years......injectable bupenorphine....they put it in so it cant be injected...but yet,cryyellow and i were on buprenex...strait form of bupenorphine,same as subutex except that subutex you take orally,same as subuxone.....now,my doc who runs a treatment center and is a recovering opiate addict by the way,told me that they dont want the suboxone out there floatin around in a opiate addicts hand and then sellin the suboxone to some kids who would, i repeat,would feel the side effects of the bupenorphine...which if you were not an addict like ourselfs,you would or could feel the effects,but we dont as much cause of our receptors bein bashed with hydro,oxy,ect....im done makin my point...i still love you guys besides the point.....by the way,banker,i thought you were a male...no offense....i could use a loan after losin my 300,000 home,vehicle,ect to addiction........just kiddin on the loan end...im gonna make it right all by myself and over a long and fruitful recovery.....chef

     
    Old 03-25-2004, 02:33 PM   #9
    Banker
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    Chef - I didn't say I was clean... I was talking about the meetings and that in order to stay clean, I felt like one would have to attend meetings. I definitely do NOT think I am clean, by any means. I realize that I'm substituting... that's what I said in my post. I think we are both saying the same thing. I agree with you, that an opiate is an opiate but I still say that being on Suboxone is better than being on 20 lortabs a day. Are you sure that if a NON addict took Bup they would feel a 'high'? Anyway, I know that when I took methadone for a while, it was better than lortabs for me. It 'hid' my problems just like lortabs did and I also felt like I could accomplish anything... but it only took one 10 mg pill instead of 5 lortabs. However, with Suboxone - it does not give me that euphoric feeling at all. I feel every ounce of pain and joy and everything else that comes with every day life.

    Anyway, you know we love you and I do think we are saying the same thing. The only difference is, I am by no means taking Suboxone to hold off withdrawals. I'm taking it because I will go back to abusing pain meds if I don't. I'm taking it because it has made me be able to be a better person --- whatever it is doing to my receptors... it is making me make responsible decisions and I have never been as clear minded or 'in tune' with my feelings, my childrens' feelings, etc. Seriously - I absolutely could not not abuse pain meds without it... and I feel like if I got off of it... I would go right back to abusing pain meds. At least I think I would. I'm not taking it because I'm scared of withdrawals. I'm scared of killing myself with lortabs. Anyway, I'll get working on that loan right away --- Just put it in the name of Chef? lol

     
    Old 03-25-2004, 04:56 PM   #10
    chefob1
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    i beleive if i go back and look at my addiction problem that i would be able to beat it...conquer it...there would be no second guessing....if i didnt have w/d's....i would not keep on usin them if i wasnt in the end just stavin off the w/d's...if i could get over that hump i would/will never touch a pill again unless i had to cause my problem is two fold.....i also have a bad back....and the methadone keeps my pain in check so i can wake up every day and work from 6am till 9pm so i can pay my child support and keep 100 bucks a week after all my payments are said and done....the methadone wont let me take a oxy or lortab...i wouldnt feel it...i dont feel euphoric from the methadone...id have to double my dose...with the buprenex i had alot of energy but i drank to compinsate that...which i dont now...and on the bupe id love to take a benzo..it would feel like i was speedballin...so in a sense my meds now work better for me than the viscious pain pill cycle and the suboxone is keepin your addiction in check...the bupe kept mine in check too but there were more problems as i described...im not sure how long ill stay on the meth...same as you with the bupe...i know in the end what your sayin...goodnight....cheffie

     
    Old 03-25-2004, 06:22 PM   #11
    Banker
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    Chef - what is speedballin?

     
    Old 03-26-2004, 05:46 AM   #12
    chefob1
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    thats when you take opiates,which have a calming effect-kinda low and slow-laid back no carries in the world and add to it at the same time 30 cups of coffee...technically its mixin heroin and cocaine....john belushi died from it,lots of folks have od'ed do it.....but if you take benzos that are depressive in quality and slow everything down and for me,the bupenorphine made me hyper,extremeely active....hence i felt the speedball effect.....its a term heroin junkies use when if you shoot heroin and start noddin real good,thats where your head starts hangin and your on the verge on fallin asleep and then they take cocaine...your body doesnt know if it is comin or going.....not good...chef

     
    Old 03-28-2004, 05:57 PM   #13
    CromeYellow
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    Yes, the vials are the .3mg ones. I was mistaken when I said they were 5mg. I injected them intramuscularily most of the time, although I did try intravenous a few times (no real rush; about the same effect).

    I just want to emphasize that even after the Buprenex is stopped completely there can be SOME withdrawal symptoms (POSSIBLY night sweats, decreasing nightly, chills during the day, WEAKNESS, some mild stomach upset) and DEFINITELY severe insomnia for up to two weeks. I found that frequent long HOT showers (or a steam room or wet sauna if available) really helped me get through this period. I was taking something like ten hot showers a day for the first few days off Buprenex.

    The first time I got off with the Buprenex I used prescription sleeping pills for at least a week after cessation of Buprenex. This last time my N.A. Sponsor would not hear of it, and I didn't have any anyway, so I just dealt with the insomnia. It DOES get better, and in all honesty the insomnia seems to last fewer nights if one AVOIDS the sleeping pills. I used warm glasses of milk and some herbal tea for a week or so, and then found that I could sleep without anything.

    EXERCISE -- this will also help you get through the uncomfortable period after cessation of Buprenex sooner. This does not necessarily mean heavy weight lifting and aerobic exercise at the gym, although within a week that is what I was forcing myself to do (remember though that I was lifting before my relapse and in top health, and my relapse was only 2 - 3 months). But it does mean SOME form of exercise. The first week after cessation of Buprenex, I went for walks. This was about all I could bring myself to do. After a week of that, I crawled back into the gym.

    It pretty much took me as long as the period I was out there to get back to my normal strength and stamina. Thank God I was able to regain it this time, and pull out of this relapse. I'm not getting any younger, and this last relapse, as short as it was, took a lot out of me.

    That is something else to consider and another good reason to get clean as soon as possible -- none of us is getting any younger. In my first year of "chipping" I could get fairly strung out, then get in a car, drive up to the mountains, wake up the next morning, drink a few glasses of orange juice, and hit the ski slopes doing cold turkey and feel better by the end of the day. NO LONGER. First off, I can no longer "chip" and every relapse seems harder and harder to recover from. As I said, I never want to tear myself down like that again, and I never want to be sick again, God Willing. ALL IS WELL -- today.

     
    Old 03-28-2004, 07:34 PM   #14
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    Hey - thank you for additional information about Bup. Let me ask you this - I have heard stories of people coming off of Bup where they are still not 100% for months later. I've also heard stories where people will feel 'mild' withdrawals and they will not last long at all. I'm VERY interested in the withdrawal from it as I will be having to face it one day.

    I think I told you I'm on Suboxone which has it in it as well as Naltrexone and it has completely changed my life for the better. I am not sure that I will be getting off of it anytime soon. I just wonder what would happen if I did. How are the cravings once you are off of it because right now - I feel as if I never had an addiction problem because people have offered me 10 lortab 10s and I say no thanks as if I would to someone offering me a brochure to a wrestling match. (don't know why I used that example but it's true - Not fond of wrestling). Anyway, any additional info you could provide would be great. Especially about the cravings once you are off of it and more info about the withdrawals from it. Thanks again!

     
    Old 08-25-2004, 11:44 AM   #15
    CromeYellow
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    Re: Buprenex for heroin withdrawal

    Well, it's easy to say no to drugs when already loaded on buprenorphine (Buprenex, Subutex, Suboxone) anyway. This is why morphine was considered a cure for alcoholism or cocaine for morphine addiction.

    Substituting one drug for another still results in addiction -- just to a different substance. Buprenorphine is just another opiate but a legal one like methadone.

    Better than using street heroin or other illegal narcotics but the addiction remains as strong as ever.

    Last edited by CromeYellow; 08-25-2004 at 11:45 AM.

     
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