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    Old 05-08-2004, 04:55 AM   #151
    mise ata ann
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    Re: when does it end

    Louisiana? Explains a lot! Huh?
    Want to throw in my threepence worth too.
    I have read posts by both Jennita and Howard for a while on another board - and agree with almost all they write. It is so good to see them both in here.
    Jennita - your story is so very similar to my own - benzos from the doc cos of lack of sleep - Crikey - I had 4 babies under 6!!!! What an eejit................ then the opiates - had a bad smash and was given codeine based pain killers - never knew anything about addiction ................ so - yes - the docs bear some responsibility and I make sure I know everything there is to know now before taking anything - funnily enough rarely go to a doc's these days! But the Nimmoites are dangerous in that anti medic stance IMO.
    I have watched Howard struggle with taper. Its such a bummer. I was on 2 mg of ativan and did the Ashton valium taper - took me 8 months - mind you - if the nutters had had their way I would still be tapering! I found it totally tortuous - was the worst 8 months of my life. Took my life away. No energy, pains, depression, agoraphobia, depersonalisation, walking was like walking thro thick glues..... and the rest. Nuff said.
    Perhaps the Nimmo place really is only for benzoheads? No-one else? And I have to say that I would speak to the man - one on one for help - didnt take to the others ver much - bar one or two who remain firm friends to this day and we speak daily on the net or the phone. The fool lost his "real" friends and surrounded himself with sychophants.
    Oh well - that is all in the past.
    I am "sober" now a while - thank God, as in Windy and Jennita and Howard fast approaching - you will have the prize soon!
    Good talking to you all.
    I am from the "auld country" and as Chef will tell you - we are violent aggressive drunk cursers! I seem to be in good company?
    OK - just leave out the violent, drunk, aggressive.
    Great to see you all
    Mise ata ann

     
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    Old 05-08-2004, 05:01 AM   #152
    no patience
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Kelliegh,

    Just wanted you to know that I am just a fellow traveler on this road like you, am no superman. Have a difficult time working some days. And have used some sick days. It is not easy, and if I had a good option not to work I would jump on it. But some of us just have to if we possibly can. You are brave. Keep that in mind.
    i hear you about the not working so many people have told me to go on disability but i won't if i was bed ridden or in a wheel chair i would but like you i have to work thank you for the vote of confidence your awesome kelleigh

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 05:13 AM   #153
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    Re: when does it end

    tell me i need to know what are these others sites you guys are talking about your peaking my curiousity. i can also understand that some people can't taper i didn't off of 50 mgs of methadone but i really wish they had because now i'm all screwed up my brain is still not balanced and just don't feel like a normal person. i thought they had to taper you off benzos i've read you can die or have seizures just curious kelleigh

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 08:54 AM   #154
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    Mise Ata Ann,

    You did an 8 month taper. I am looking at about the same. Can I ask what your starting dose of Valium was? Mine was 30 mgs. Cut 5 right off with no problems, from there have cut either 1 mg or 1.25 mgs every week or two depending on how I feel. Am down to 12.5 mgs in 4 months + 1 week.

    By the way, on the site we are discussing, you can no longer PM an administrator for tapering support or even ask for them in the open forum. New Rules. All you can do is start a thread. So if you want to grab a mentor, it cannot be one of them. No guarantee they will even enter the thread.

    You are an inspiration. Got three of you here now that have beaten the pills and have plenty of time under your belt. I relate to most of your tapering symptoms. But I swear that I usually find a coorelation between stress and my symptoms. My work of it`s very nature is very confrontational, and my employer thrives on power plays, intimidation, and pressure. In the thick of it I experience symptoms and it can take hours to calm down once it cranks up. And even alone, if I fall into worry symptoms appear or magnify. What before would have been just a real pain in the butt now manifests itself in real physical problems and exaggerated anxiety. This is a product of the comprimised nervous system Ashton describes so well. So in theory if one could change their personality to that of James Bond they may have a pretty easy ride. But unforutnately that is the movies and we are not machines. Yet I am still doing all I can to keep "cool." This means new ways of thinking and reacting, a process and a journey. Thanks for the encourgement.

    P.S. It is this truth of the comprimised nervous system that the medical community is largely ignorant about and thus the misdiagnosises.

    Last edited by howard678; 05-08-2004 at 10:40 AM.

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 09:18 AM   #155
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    That is a horrifying thought!!!! !!!!!!!! I got a little taste of something like that when I could take 2 mgs. Ativan( worth around 20 mgs. valium) and not only wouldn't sleep, but was bright, wide awake and sharp...not so much as a little lightheaded. That scared me enough to start looking into the drugs more...
    Myself, had nights when I took 2 mgs of Xanax = 40 mgs of Valium, wide awake, took 2 mgs more, slept but awake in 2 hours. But I still was not worried until I tried to cut down and a tornado hit...

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 09:36 AM   #156
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    <> Jennita

    Adequate education needs to be printed on the pharmacy inserts. I always read these. The only warning I got with my first prescription of Xanax was that "it may be habit forming if taken for longer than directed by your doctor." Even a halfway description of the potential withdrawal syndrome and the pills, which cost a mere $10, would have gone in the nearest trash can. I was not out to get high, was not on drugs, did not even drink, and had way too much to lose at the time to be taking any real chances. Even though I did find I really liked what the Xanax did, still would have ditched them had I been warned in time. Then the worst I had done was eased what woes may have come with alcohol. I know some have real trouble staying off of it, but 5 days of pain and one in the clear. May be why so many go keep going back on it, such a brief withdrawal syndrome.

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 10:00 AM   #157
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by no patience
    tell me i need to know what are these others sites you guys are talking about your peaking my curiousity. i can also understand that some people can't taper i didn't off of 50 mgs of methadone but i really wish they had because now i'm all screwed up my brain is still not balanced and just don't feel like a normal person. i thought they had to taper you off benzos i've read you can die or have seizures just curious kelleigh
    With your current situation there would be little point in linking you to or naming other forums, IMO. Plus it cannot be done anyway as it is against the board guidelines here. You`ll get what you need on the net here, and as I told you, as someone that kicked methadone you`d be right at home in NA.

    Seizures? More common when someone drops abruptly from high doses of benzos. From what I have read, seizures in such circumstances are not necessarily probable but they are far from uncommon. That is why if someone cold turkeys off they need to take anti-seizure medications for about the first week, when the biggest slam typically comes. Cold turkey I believe should be only the last resort, when all else fails, for the benzo addict.

    Last edited by howard678; 05-08-2004 at 12:35 PM.

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 02:44 PM   #158
    mise ata ann
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    Re: when does it end

    Hello Howard
    Nice to speak to you at last.
    I am just appalled at what you tell me about the forum - cant talk to an admin? Wonder if Ray has finally flipped?
    And I have little time for those mods who I met during my taper - you can keep them!
    Like you I started off at 30 mg valium - dropped 5 - 10 quite rapidly and then dropped in general about 2 mg per 2 weeks until I got to 15 - wee hiccup then - stuck for a bit - then resumed at 2 mg till I got to 10, 1 mg till I got to 5, 1/2 mg until I jumped at 1/2. Never looked back. I had pretty dreadful withdrawal symptoms for most of the time - but I dont need to tell you. You have read Ashton? Its all there - she is my bible! The woman has it! Hope you manage on as ever.......... I am having to dash out now - will speak again.
    Must just say that yes I think the medical profession esp in the US is profoundly ignorant. Mind you Xanax maked humungous profits for pharmas and doctors - so there is your answer? IN UK we are luckier - doctors are inviting in all regular users of benzos to discuss how to get off. Its a real hot topic here all the way up to Govt. You are not so lucky. I am glad to hear you have managed to get valium. The seizure thing is true too. There is a girl in here - Rosie - who had a seizure when she was taken off just .5 mg xanax peer day. No joke? She is not on a lot just now as she has just been thro detox for opiates - but she is doing just great - but she is still to get off klonopin - she has read her Ashton - maybe you could help her?
    Jennita has been a tremendous adviser to you!
    Must dash - but I am here and if I can help - and I will be able to with this taper I am sure - just bellow!
    Good luck, friend
    Mise

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 02:47 PM   #159
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    Re: when does it end

    you're right howard and i think more and more peolple should not sign away there right to be councelled by a pharmacist now every time i pick up any medication because i was so nieve to methadone i don't sign the little slip of paper and ask every single thing about it especially since i've been worned about klonopin(by you of course) kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 05-08-2004 at 03:03 PM.

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 03:28 PM   #160
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    Mise Ata Ann,

    So glad to have your reply. :-) On your taper, am I correct in assuming that, on the last 5 mgs, you cut .5 mgs every two weeks? Were you feeling dreadful during that time? If so, would you do it the same way again? That is something that I have always had difficulty understanding. Why taper in the range of such a small dose, 5 mgs of Valium, if really suffering? It appears that for some reason or another the nervous system has not done a lot of healing/adjusting along the way for the many I have read of in that predicament. So why not jump and "let the true healing begin"? As it is called... Thanks :-)

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 04:32 PM   #161
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    With your current situation there would be little point in linking you to or naming other forums, IMO. Plus it cannot be done anyway as it is against the board guidelines here. You`ll get what you need on the net here, and as I told you, as someone that kicked methadone you`d be right at home in NA.

    Seizures? More common when someone drops abruptly from high doses of benzos. From what I have read, seizures in such circumstances are not necessarily probable but they are far from uncommon. That is why if someone cold turkeys off they need to take anti-seizure medications for about the first week, when the biggest slam typically comes. Cold turkey I believe should be only the last resort, when all else fails, for the benzo addict.
    howard i id'nt really want to go on these sites iwas just curious of what they were all about because windsy man asked if jennita was a nimmo-ite and i did'nt know if he meant that in abad way or what. hope your doing well and can't believe my very first post has come to all this 32 pages of stuff i know nothing about but i'm glad it's here because i'm gaining so much knowledge in something i did'nt realize could be so harmful i thought methadone was a bad one but reading all this is making me realize the klonopin has got to go did'nt want to listen at first because it is helping me through a rough time but what will help me when i'm coming off that ? i always thought people got addicted to benzos because they gave you some kind of euphoric feeling guess i was wrong when i first took a klonopin i was like ok how is this addicting but reading all these posts now i completly understand i thank you all for that and talk to you soon you must be so proud of your self getting off these and doing it with out the aid of any ssri i give you so much credit chat soon friend kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 05-08-2004 at 04:34 PM.

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 05:03 PM   #162
    Jennita
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by windysan
    Yep, dope is insane. There are a lot of good folks on the Nimmo site and I do miss them. I just couldn't handle the ridiculous bickering over stupid crap. As for addicts being unable to taper.....I think that maybe some can....but not me or many others who were as strung out as I was. When you are so physically addicted to a multitude of junk then you just don't want to get dopesick. I gave tapering a try over a year's time but I failed over and over again. Maybe I'm just weak....or maybe the dope was too strong. On Nimmo's board I saw a few people like me who had no other choice than detox/rehab. They had tried to taper and failed. They were polyabusers who were strung out really bad. When they mentioned rehab(for many, including me, this was the last resort before dying) they were rebuked by many of the moderators and scared into continuing the downward spiral of abuse. For so many addicts rehab is the only way. I just had to get away from the stuff. I was on major doses of benzos and other crap when I went to detox/rehab. After a bad experience in detox(lithium, zyprexa) I went on to a nice rehab. After about 3 weeks I was fine. I didn't have any pain. I was retarded from the brain drugs for about 3 weeks but when I walked out of the lithium fog....I was in good shape. I truly wish that there was an easier, softer way. The easiest way for me was rehab. I respect those who are tapering down....God knows I wasn't tough enough.

    By the way....I'm from Louisiana and here cursing is an art form. Can we curse in here? Just wondering. I won't say anything too crude but a good curse word here and there adds good color.

    windysan
    Sometimes a curse word does add a little flavor to conversation but it's not allowed in this forum. Sometimes when I just can't help myself, I might do this sort of thing **** **, not too effective though....

    Zyprexa and Lithium? Talk about a jump into the frying pan, yikes..

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 05:11 PM   #163
    Jennita
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mise ata ann
    Louisiana? Explains a lot! Huh?
    Want to throw in my threepence worth too.
    I have read posts by both Jennita and Howard for a while on another board - and agree with almost all they write. It is so good to see them both in here.
    Jennita - your story is so very similar to my own - benzos from the doc cos of lack of sleep - Crikey - I had 4 babies under 6!!!! What an eejit................ then the opiates - had a bad smash and was given codeine based pain killers - never knew anything about addiction ................ so - yes - the docs bear some responsibility and I make sure I know everything there is to know now before taking anything - funnily enough rarely go to a doc's these days! But the Nimmoites are dangerous in that anti medic stance IMO.
    I have watched Howard struggle with taper. Its such a bummer. I was on 2 mg of ativan and did the Ashton valium taper - took me 8 months - mind you - if the nutters had had their way I would still be tapering! I found it totally tortuous - was the worst 8 months of my life. Took my life away. No energy, pains, depression, agoraphobia, depersonalisation, walking was like walking thro thick glues..... and the rest. Nuff said.
    Perhaps the Nimmo place really is only for benzoheads? No-one else? And I have to say that I would speak to the man - one on one for help - didnt take to the others ver much - bar one or two who remain firm friends to this day and we speak daily on the net or the phone. The fool lost his "real" friends and surrounded himself with sychophants.
    Oh well - that is all in the past.
    I am "sober" now a while - thank God, as in Windy and Jennita and Howard fast approaching - you will have the prize soon!
    Good talking to you all.
    I am from the "auld country" and as Chef will tell you - we are violent aggressive drunk cursers! I seem to be in good company?
    OK - just leave out the violent, drunk, aggressive.
    Great to see you all
    Mise ata ann
    Yes, our stories are simular but my sleep problem was created by the codiene. If I had known that it wouldn't have taken too long to recover from it, I would not have moved on to benzos, which I feel are much worse than narcotics for what they can do to GABA and sleep cycles. Of course, narcotics can be very severe as we have seen as well.

    I always tell people to slow taper, but you are right, sometimes you can go TOO slow. It really depends, so the 10% cut every two weeks recommendation should really be only guideline, not gospel. Too slow, too fast; one has to go by what they feel I suppose.

    Thanks for the kind words towards howard and I. Glad you stopped in!

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 05:15 PM   #164
    Jennita
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Myself, had nights when I took 2 mgs of Xanax = 40 mgs of Valium, wide awake, took 2 mgs more, slept but awake in 2 hours. But I still was not worried until I tried to cut down and a tornado hit...
    Oh god, then you DO know what I'm talking about!

     
    Old 05-08-2004, 05:26 PM   #165
    Jennita
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    <> Jennita

    Adequate education needs to be printed on the pharmacy inserts. I always read these. The only warning I got with my first prescription of Xanax was that "it may be habit forming if taken for longer than directed by your doctor." Even a halfway description of the potential withdrawal syndrome and the pills, which cost a mere $10, would have gone in the nearest trash can. I was not out to get high, was not on drugs, did not even drink, and had way too much to lose at the time to be taking any real chances. Even though I did find I really liked what the Xanax did, still would have ditched them had I been warned in time. Then the worst I had done was eased what woes may have come with alcohol. I know some have real trouble staying off of it, but 5 days of pain and one in the clear. May be why so many go keep going back on it, such a brief withdrawal syndrome.
    Yeh, I hear you about those inserts...pretty useless most of the time. Now that the internet has so much to offer, even my elderly mother will look up any new mediction online now for the usually unmentioned potential adverse effects!

    Benzos have such a long recovery/withdrawal syndrome compared to other drugs....maybe that's why most addicts/alcoholics want to go back whereas most benzo people can't stand the thought of any more benzos once they get free!

     
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