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    Old 05-16-2004, 09:06 AM   #226
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    Kelleigh,

    State disability is temporary and reportedly easier to get than federal. Sure it does vary state to state as to how much red tape is involved. But there is an old saying, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil." As to what I do, I do not get into too much personal information on a board so public. I would in private messages but this site does not have that feature. And posting private e-mail addresses is not allowed. Trust me, it is a very stressful profession but made worse by my current superviser who is a real piece of work.

    Last edited by howard678; 05-16-2004 at 09:08 AM.

     
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    Old 05-16-2004, 09:23 AM   #227
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Kelleigh,

    State disability is temporary and reportedly easier to get than federal. Sure it does vary state to state as to how much red tape is involved. But there is an old saying, "the squeaky wheel gets the oil." As to what I do, I do not get into too much personal information on a board so public. I would in private messages but this site does not have that feature. And posting private e-mail addresses is not allowed. Trust me, it is a very stressful profession but made worse by my current superviser who is a real piece of work.
    WELL LUCKILY YOUR CHANGING JOBS THEN IT'S PRETTY AWFUL TO WORK UNDER SOMEONE THAT YOU JUST CAN'T EITHER SEEM TO PLEASE OR WHATEVER YOUR CASE MAYBE JUST THOUGHT I'D ASK SORRY IF I OFFENDED YOU IN ANY WAY I JUST HAVE ALOT OF CURIOUSITY AND YOU KNOW WHT THEY SAY CURIOUSITY KILLED THE CAT THATS ONE OF MY WEAKNESSES YOU'VE JUST PEAKED MY CURIOUSITY IN HOW YOU DESCRIBE YOUR JOB THE WAY YOU RIGHT I PICTURE AS SOME SCIENTIST ON HIS WAY TO A NOBEL PRIZE YOU JUST SEEM VERY INTELLIGENT AND VERY EDUCATED AGAIN SORRY IF I OFFENDE YOU IN ANY WAY KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK YOUR A GREAT PERSON KELLEIGH HOWARD YOU WERE JUST ONLINE WHERE DID U GO LOL

    Last edited by no patience; 05-16-2004 at 09:25 AM.

     
    Old 05-16-2004, 09:32 AM   #228
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    Re: when does it end

    Howard Sorry To Keep Bothering You But I Know You Are Up On The Ashton Manual Pretty Well If I Was To Continue Taking Vicodin For My Pain Any Where In The Manual Does It Say Anything About Mixing Opiates With Benzodiazipines Just Thought I'd Ask I Know You Don't Know Alot About Opiates But Just Thought I Would As K Thought Maybe Haether Ashton Would Know I Briefly Searched Through It But Could Not Find Anything Even Searched The Net But Could'nt Find Any Facts About It Just Thought I'd Throw It Your Way I Posted It As A Question On The Board But You Know Somuch About Benzos Thought Maybe You'd Know Sorry To Be A Pain In Thea$$ Thanks Friend Kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 05-16-2004 at 09:33 AM.

     
    Old 05-16-2004, 12:04 PM   #229
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by no patience
    ALSO HAVENT HEARD FROM JENNITA IN AWHILE JUST WANTED TO CHECK IN AND SAY HI TO HER AND SEE HOW SHES DOING HOPE ALL IS WELL HOPE TO CHAT WITH YOU SOON YOU ALSO HAVE BEEN A BIG HELP TO ME AND MUCHLY APPRECIATE IT HUGS KELLEIGH
    Hi Kelligh! Sometimes I skip the boards a few days if I'm doing alot. I'm doing really good, thanks for asking!

    I wouldn't worry too much about the Vicodin. From what I know, they are not as bad as benzos in the sense of long-term withdrawals. But just take them as dosed for pain, as as sparingly as you can manage. Pain is not something you can control and nobody would expect you to wrathe around in it! It's really only when pain pills become a source of euphoria and not pain-relief that is termed real "addictive behavior" anyway!

    Isn't there something that can be done about your back pain? Chiropractic? Surgery? My mother-in-law had a nerve which caused horrible back pain, and she had some procedure done which basically killed the nerve itself so she's ok now but that was only one nerve problem so it doesn't apply to all back pain.

    Anyway, point is, I would look into getting rid of the pain if it's possible in your case?

     
    Old 05-16-2004, 12:32 PM   #230
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    Hi Kelligh! Sometimes I skip the boards a few days if I'm doing alot. I'm doing really good, thanks for asking!

    I wouldn't worry too much about the Vicodin. From what I know, they are not as bad as benzos in the sense of long-term withdrawals. But just take them as dosed for pain, as as sparingly as you can manage. Pain is not something you can control and nobody would expect you to wrathe around in it! It's really only when pain pills become a source of euphoria and not pain-relief that is termed real "addictive behavior" anyway!

    Isn't there something that can be done about your back pain? Chiropractic? Surgery? My mother-in-law had a nerve which caused horrible back pain, and she had some procedure done which basically killed the nerve itself so she's ok now but that was only one nerve problem so it doesn't apply to all back pain.

    Anyway, point is, I would look into getting rid of the pain if it's possible in your case?
    hi jennita good to hear from you missed ya unfortunatly my pain is caused by 2 bulging discs and arthritis of my spine i can have surgery but my pain dr says it's to soon whatever that means i acually did go to a chiropractor and ended up in worse pain after words i only took one vicodin i'm just kind of nervous to go further because the w/ds of methadone remain in my nightmares forever i'm just considering taking the vicodin cause my pain really gets unbearable i have a contract with my pain dr and a pill count is one of the arrangements so i can't abuse them or tough luck i don't know if you would know about this but can you mix opiates and benzos seeing how one is an upper and one is a downer i'm just so confused right now the pain is just really getting to me and i'm considering switching pain clinics due to my dr not being there when i need him the most glad to hear you're doing well and nice to hear from you again kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 05-16-2004 at 12:32 PM.

     
    Old 05-16-2004, 06:16 PM   #231
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    Kayleigh,

    I do not think Ashton gets much into opiates. She may note that they have "additive" effects with benzos but got too much to do tonight to hunt for the quote.

    Jennita may be correct about Vicodins being uppers as some of these pain pills reportedly contain caffeine, and some report a stimulating effect. But percocets and hydrocodones were never an upper for me, and others I know report the same. I used leftovers from the dentist for sleep when all else failed. And it is a fact that opiates slow respiration so mixing them with benzos may not be advisable in some circumstances. In fact deaths have occured but this is probably mostly due to high dosing and/or mixing with alcohol. Does the person that prescribed you the pain pills know you are taking Klonopin? And are they aware of the dose? You could also pose these questions to a pharmacist. Do some research and deal with your doctor armed with information. This is more time consuming but worth the effort. Do not rely just on what a few people on the internet tell you.

    Also, I am not clear as to why you were put on methadone then presumedly weaned off. From my knowledge this is done with opiate, often herion, addicts to detox them. Methadone clinics... If you have addiction issues with opiates, taking more may ignite an old flame. There are non-opiate related pain medicines to consider. And though I agree with the essence of the dependency/addiction distinction Jennita makes, especially when it comes to certain benzo users and the potential for medically mistreating them, I have read the distinction before and could see it easily getting abused. Dropping the addiction label could give the wrong people license to keep on using an addictive drug when they need to free themselves from it.

    Last edited by howard678; 05-16-2004 at 06:49 PM.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 04:35 AM   #232
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Kayleigh,

    I do not think Ashton gets much into opiates. She may note that they have "additive" effects with benzos but got too much to do tonight to hunt for the quote.

    Jennita may be correct about Vicodins being uppers as some of these pain pills reportedly contain caffeine, and some report a stimulating effect. But percocets and hydrocodones were never an upper for me, and others I know report the same. I used leftovers from the dentist for sleep when all else failed. And it is a fact that opiates slow respiration so mixing them with benzos may not be advisable in some circumstances. In fact deaths have occured but this is probably mostly due to high dosing and/or mixing with alcohol. Does the person that prescribed you the pain pills know you are taking Klonopin? And are they aware of the dose? You could also pose these questions to a pharmacist. Do some research and deal with your doctor armed with information. This is more time consuming but worth the effort. Do not rely just on what a few people on the internet tell you.

    Also, I am not clear as to why you were put on methadone then presumedly weaned off. From my knowledge this is done with opiate, often herion, addicts to detox them. Methadone clinics... If you have addiction issues with opiates, taking more may ignite an old flame. There are non-opiate related pain medicines to consider. And though I agree with the essence of the dependency/addiction distinction Jennita makes, especially when it comes to certain benzo users and the potential for medically mistreating them, I have read the distinction before and could see it easily getting abused. Dropping the addiction label could give the wrong people license to keep on using an addictive drug when they need to free themselves from it.
    hi howard i was put on methadone for my back pain they also use it for moderate to severe pain i first was on vicodin but it wears off to quickly when you hurt 24/7it's not that great of a pain killer to be on so my primary dr put me on methadone because it has a half life of 24 hrs(which is why it's the worst opiate to kick the w/ds last 3 to 5 wks and then you get the physchological which kicks your a$$ more than the physical) and lasts 12 hrs ive told my drs about what medications i'm on but they have'nt said anything i took my self off methadone because over 2 years time my tolerance went from 5 mgs to 50 and i just did'nt want to be at 100 by the time i was 40 as much as you despise benzos i despise methadone i know it helps people that are recovering heroin addicts but coming off this drug really screws up your life especially if your not weaned properly like me 50 to 0 that's alot of the reason why i'm on an ssri and klonopin they say i have social anxiety also but now i have a kind of panic disorder all due to this crappy drug to put it mildly it's totally screwed my head up i feel like this drug took pieces of me with it and will never be the same again sorry so long just venting i did'nt mean to get all into this just meant to tell you why they put me on it and when i talk about it it just really gets me going i know this w/d probably doesnt compare to benzo w/d but let me tell you it's my own private nightmare thanks for letting me vent your good people hope your job is going ok and not to stressful it's something you don't need right now either hugs kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 05-17-2004 at 08:29 AM.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 10:04 AM   #233
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    Kayleigh,

    I can understand now why you would not feel at home in NA meetings, as your aim all along was to control a medical condition, not to get "high." You said a very key word, "tolerance." If it were not for tolerance I would not be here. I would be going along happily taking my initially prescribed dose of tranqus. They benefited me, but turned on me, delivering withdrawal symptoms and demanding higher doses. There is no end once this happens. The demands will go up and up until you are taking enough to kill you.

    As to the "social anxiety disorder," "generalized anxiety disorder," well unless one was real uncomfortable around people, in social situations, in crowds, before the drugs, then what one is experiencing is drug withdrawal. Common with coming off or havng come off of a variety of drugs, incuding alcohol, opiates, benzos, cocaine, etc. The drugs handle the brain`s pleasure and/or calming centers, and once off, there is an re-adjustment period where the brain takes back control of these areas. I have faith in my body to do this, and believe it is presently doing so as I slowly reduce my drug intake. Part of the price to pay. No fun, but will be worth it in the end.

    As to how to best address your chronic pain, I have no clear answers, other than to just wait until you can have surgery and hope that helps. As to taking the occasional Vicodin on an as needed basis, Jennita may be correct. Also, I suggest trying your best not to worry. This never helps anything unless it quickly motivates someone to actions that prove beneficial. If there is nothing one can do about something worry is only harmful.

    Last edited by howard678; 05-17-2004 at 10:10 AM.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 12:16 PM   #234
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Kayleigh,

    I do not think Ashton gets much into opiates. She may note that they have "additive" effects with benzos but got too much to do tonight to hunt for the quote.

    Jennita may be correct about Vicodins being uppers as some of these pain pills reportedly contain caffeine, and some report a stimulating effect. But percocets and hydrocodones were never an upper for me, and others I know report the same. I used leftovers from the dentist for sleep when all else failed. And it is a fact that opiates slow respiration so mixing them with benzos may not be advisable in some circumstances. In fact deaths have occured but this is probably mostly due to high dosing and/or mixing with alcohol. Does the person that prescribed you the pain pills know you are taking Klonopin? And are they aware of the dose? You could also pose these questions to a pharmacist. Do some research and deal with your doctor armed with information. This is more time consuming but worth the effort. Do not rely just on what a few people on the internet tell you.

    Also, I am not clear as to why you were put on methadone then presumedly weaned off. From my knowledge this is done with opiate, often herion, addicts to detox them. Methadone clinics... If you have addiction issues with opiates, taking more may ignite an old flame. There are non-opiate related pain medicines to consider. And though I agree with the essence of the dependency/addiction distinction Jennita makes, especially when it comes to certain benzo users and the potential for medically mistreating them, I have read the distinction before and could see it easily getting abused. Dropping the addiction label could give the wrong people license to keep on using an addictive drug when they need to free themselves from it.
    I don't think I said Vicodins were uppers; they are narcotics, right? I think they are technically downers like all opiates. I can't find any detailed info on Vicodin about any caffiene in them. I know OTC pain relievers sometimes have caffeine; mainly for headaches because caffeine helps headaches.


    Actually, Kelligh, you should make sure your doctor thinks it's ok to take the Vicodin occassionally because you are on other drugs which could interact unfavorably!

    Are you on Klonopin and Zoloft....I forgot exactly. I agree with Howard about the social anxiety. To me, your main issue has been pain and that is the most important.....how many of us could function well with alot of pain? It's not possible.

    The anxiety issues, etc. could be worked out without meds for all they know but now they have just complicated your physical problems with all these extra meds. I would try eventually to get off the psychiatric meds and concentrate on steps to get your pain under control. I bet if you felt better physically, your mental state may change for the better. I hope you can find a doctor who will be more aggressive with treating your physical problems.

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 12:34 PM   #235
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    I don't think I said Vicodins were uppers; they are narcotics, right? I think they are technically downers like all opiates. I can't find any detailed info on Vicodin about any caffiene in them. I know OTC pain relievers sometimes have caffeine; mainly for headaches because caffeine helps headaches.


    Actually, Kelligh, you should make sure your doctor thinks it's ok to take the Vicodin occassionally because you are on other drugs which could interact unfavorably!

    Are you on Klonopin and Zoloft....I forgot exactly. I agree with Howard about the social anxiety. To me, your main issue has been pain and that is the most important.....how many of us could function well with alot of pain? It's not possible.

    The anxiety issues, etc. could be worked out without meds for all they know but now they have just complicated your physical problems with all these extra meds. I would try eventually to get off the psychiatric meds and concentrate on steps to get your pain under control. I bet if you felt better physically, your mental state may change for the better. I hope you can find a doctor who will be more aggressive with treating your physical problems.
    hi jennita i actually spoke to my dr today and nixed the vicodin he wants to put me on a fentynal patch which yes is another narcotic i'm the one that mentioned vicodin being an upper i always thought they were because of the euphoria they gave but i could be wrong i also mentioned to him today just to remind him that i was on other meds and he expressed no concern but i am glad to say i have taken no klonopin today and don't feel crappy but i know klonopin has a 50 hr half life so that could be it i actually did slowly cut my dose down though for the past couple weeks i am still on lexapro though which i think i'll ride out for awhile cause i don't want to stop to many things at once i'm gonna have to do some research on this patch i used it to wean off methadone it was suppose to ease the w/ds (yeah right) everthing just makes me so nervous now but i learn to control that thanks for your support kelleigh

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 12:45 PM   #236
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Kayleigh,

    I can understand now why you would not feel at home in NA meetings, as your aim all along was to control a medical condition, not to get "high." You said a very key word, "tolerance." If it were not for tolerance I would not be here. I would be going along happily taking my initially prescribed dose of tranqus. They benefited me, but turned on me, delivering withdrawal symptoms and demanding higher doses. There is no end once this happens. The demands will go up and up until you are taking enough to kill you.

    As to the "social anxiety disorder," "generalized anxiety disorder," well unless one was real uncomfortable around people, in social situations, in crowds, before the drugs, then what one is experiencing is drug withdrawal. Common with coming off or havng come off of a variety of drugs, incuding alcohol, opiates, benzos, cocaine, etc. The drugs handle the brain`s pleasure and/or calming centers, and once off, there is an re-adjustment period where the brain takes back control of these areas. I have faith in my body to do this, and believe it is presently doing so as I slowly reduce my drug intake. Part of the price to pay. No fun, but will be worth it in the end.

    As to how to best address your chronic pain, I have no clear answers, other than to just wait until you can have surgery and hope that helps. As to taking the occasional Vicodin on an as needed basis, Jennita may be correct. Also, I suggest trying your best not to worry. This never helps anything unless it quickly motivates someone to actions that prove beneficial. If there is nothing one can do about something worry is only harmful.
    thanks howard your post makes alot of sense i did'nt take any klonopin today as i told jennita as i told you i was weaning down i feel ok but i know klonopin has a long half life so it could be that also nixed the vicodin and am going on a fentynal patch which is a narcotic but it lasts 72 hrs so i would'nt have to keep popping pills so i'm gonna do some research on it before i put it on because i don't want to end up in a hellish nightmare again thank you for your concern you and jennita both have been so helpful kelleigh

     
    Old 05-18-2004, 04:57 AM   #237
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by no patience
    thanks howard your post makes alot of sense i did'nt take any klonopin today as i told jennita as i told you i was weaning down i feel ok but i know klonopin has a long half life so it could be that also nixed the vicodin and am going on a fentynal patch which is a narcotic but it lasts 72 hrs so i would'nt have to keep popping pills so i'm gonna do some research on it before i put it on because i don't want to end up in a hellish nightmare again thank you for your concern you and jennita both have been so helpful kelleigh
    hey howard just wanted to say hi and to try and have a non stressful day at work hugs kelleigh

     
    Old 05-18-2004, 10:03 PM   #238
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    Re: when does it end

    Hey Kelleigh,

    Not a good day. Heart symptoms. Mine sometimes takes off for hours, high end BP also. About all you can do is lay down and try and relax if you do not want to take a med. Not a good situation for a middle aged male. Perhaps Jennita will come in and tell us how she dealt with this, if she had similar issues. They say on another board, "the only way out is through," but I`d rather not make it through in a casket...

     
    Old 05-18-2004, 11:14 PM   #239
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Hey Kelleigh,

    Not a good day. Heart symptoms. Mine sometimes takes off for hours, high end BP also. About all you can do is lay down and try and relax if you do not want to take a med. Not a good situation for a middle aged male. Perhaps Jennita will come in and tell us how she dealt with this, if she had similar issues. They say on another board, "the only way out is through," but I`d rather not make it through in a casket...
    I'm not sure about the blood pressure thing because I avoided doctors like the plague during withdrawal, but I did get sick a few times with infection and when my blood pressure was taken, it was ok. I attribute my good blood pressure strictly to weight training. I would do at least a little even during early withdrawals.

    I'm 47 and benzo withdrawal left me with an extra 40 lbs to deal with since after acute withdrawal(no appetite and severe weight loss), it boomeranged into constant hunger and weight gain. I've lost 10 lbs of it finally and very slowly( I don't try that hard diet wise; but I should ) but even with that large of a weight gain plus withdrawals/lingering sleep issues, I still manage to have a blood pressure every time I check at around 120/60!

    It has to be the exercise, because although I try to be nutrition consious, I have to have chocolate/ice creams/desserts or fast food way too often. I'm also Italian, and pasta is a fav of mine. So I can't say diet has kept my weight down, so again, it has to be the exercise!!! It also can't be youth, I'm 47 and this, from what I've heard is fairly old. I'm also still 30 lbs. over my old weight but still the pressure is down.

    I go to the gym 4 times a week; free weights and machines, then around 15-20 minutes of some sort of cardio machine.

    But that is now; before, in early withdrawal, I only did mild, light weight work and short, non-stressful cardio like walking or light setting on the bike at the gym. Just didn't have enough energy.

    So what's my point? Errrr....I forgot....just kidding! My point is, exercise, although difficult in withdrawal, is a must!!!!!!!! Even just some walking will make enough of a difference to keep that pressure down!

    As far as the heart racing, that is something I remember well!! Ugh...
    I would have like 100 BPM resting rate! That's insane, especially for a person who's usual range was 64-70!

    But eventually, it does go back to pre-benzo state...don't be too worried about it, unless of course you haven't had a checkup just to make sure there is no other heart condition.

    We know benzo withdrawals will not make us immune to other conditions. But I had already took the complete physical during withdrawal, so I knew my heart-racing was benzo-related. Sure enough, as time passed, it got better and finally returned to normal.

     
    Old 05-18-2004, 11:20 PM   #240
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    Re: when does it end

    Also, remember, withdrawals are too taxing on the body for one to try and exercise too vigorously! You might over-due and cause more stress on the body. This isn't an Olympic event; merely starting with a few minutes a day can do wonders, and later as withdrawals get better, more time and effort can be added.

    So, keep the exercise very mild during this time. That was a hard thing for me psychologically, because I had been used to vigorous workouts but I knew I had to be careful during such a trauma as benzo withdrawal not to make myself worse.

    So, take it easy but try to do whatever you can. Your blood pressure will thank you for it.

     
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