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    Old 05-05-2004, 09:14 PM   #121
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    <>

    You may be worrying too much. Heather Ashton says not to worry. I agree. Easier said than done, but work on it. Drug addiction is a pain and fear of the unknown is of the worst sort. Did we analyze every feeling, every ache and pain before drug addiction and reading all of the various opinions and experiences on the internet? Of course not. Fear can create symptoms or make moderate to mild anxiety (from drug withdrawal) much worse. Me, I have to take the bull by the horns, every day. I think it is important for you to get involved in your own recovery. Klonopin is a short term solution because of tolerance building. Stevie Knicks got up to 72 a day and still had no relief. But for now, why toy around with it? Either take it as prescribed or work out a tapering off schedule with your doctor. If you do not trust this doctor, find another one.

    Last edited by howard678; 05-05-2004 at 11:22 PM.

     
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    Old 05-06-2004, 04:18 AM   #122
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    Re: when does it end

    howard thank you for the advice it makes alot of sense maybe i do think being on these boards everyday are going to solve my problems that why i'm on it some much but i'm definitly gonna take the advice on the website you gave me and see if there are some groups for my condition all i do is come on these boards because i know i can say things and not embarrass my self and i like to tryto help the people going through opiate w/d because mine was so bad and i just want to try help ease it for them i did have totally faith in my phsychiatrist but now knowing about klonopin i wonder if she knows what she's doing thanks for all your help kelleigh

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 04:20 AM   #123
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    Re: when does it end

    i'm always on the computer but don't know much about them chat soon kelleigh not all that computer literate (this reply goes to the definition of isp)

    Last edited by no patience; 05-06-2004 at 04:21 AM.

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 10:59 AM   #124
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    <>

    You may be worrying too much. Heather Ashton says not to worry. I agree. Easier said than done, but work on it. Drug addiction is a pain and fear of the unknown is of the worst sort. Did we analyze every feeling, every ache and pain before drug addiction and reading all of the various opinions and experiences on the internet? Of course not. Fear can create symptoms or make moderate to mild anxiety (from drug withdrawal) much worse. Me, I have to take the bull by the horns, every day. I think it is important for you to get involved in your own recovery. Klonopin is a short term solution because of tolerance building. Stevie Knicks got up to 72 a day and still had no relief. But for now, why toy around with it? Either take it as prescribed or work out a tapering off schedule with your doctor. If you do not trust this doctor, find another one.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    <>

    You may be worrying too much. Heather Ashton says not to worry. I agree. Easier said than done, but work on it. Drug addiction is a pain and fear of the unknown is of the worst sort. Did we analyze every feeling, every ache and pain before drug addiction and reading all of the various opinions and experiences on the internet? Of course not. Fear can create symptoms or make moderate to mild anxiety (from drug withdrawal) much worse. Me, I have to take the bull by the horns, every day. I think it is important for you to get involved in your own recovery. Klonopin is a short term solution because of tolerance building. Stevie Knicks got up to 72 a day and still had no relief. But for now, why toy around with it? Either take it as prescribed or work out a tapering off schedule with your doctor. If you do not trust this doctor, find another one.
    Howard, do you have a link or some key words on the story concerning Stevie Knicks? I read one but it didn't mention how much she got up to in the one I read, I can't believe it was that high and she still had tolerance, wow!

    Kelligh, you can't beat yourself up about the methadone because physical pain is something that needs to be addressed; people get into accidents or injuries calls for some pain control intil they heal; nobody expects someone to live with severe pain. But they should have not cold-turkeyed you off it should be tapered properly but that doesn't always happen since they don't take the drugs that seriously...if a person isn't wildly abusing them, or on some illegal drug like cocaine, they don't think there should be much problems. I don't quite understand this, other than maybe they think just because it's controlled by prescription? Sometimes severe pain calls for larger doses and that is when it gets harder to come off of it.

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 11:05 AM   #125
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    Re: when does it end

    i know how you feel about the prickly stuff and anxiety i am on klonopin as welll do you see floaters in your eyes?

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 11:25 AM   #126
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    <>

    I`ve heard this affirmation before but personally think there are a lot of people that need to be on meds, that or institutionalized, and have real problems with people on the net writing with an aire of scientific authority (not saying you are one) strongly implying or downright telling people they do not know from Adam to drop all meds, this based on drug company conspiracy theories. I would not be surprised if some, if not many deaths have occured as a result. How many that just up and go away from the boards are now in the ground? Though there may be some profit driven motives when it comes to SSRIs, but hardly with benzos as the patents have long run out and people typically get dirt cheap generics.

    The insane has been with us in abundance since the beginning of recorded history. I have observed them in action, bi-polar and the like, it`s far out, and all I can think of right now claimed the condition pre-existed the meds. One may debate cause and effect, but if the truth be known, there is mystery here. I think most doctors would admit this but if it comes down to suicide or strong meds, an institution or experiment with meds, perhaps let the doctors do their jobs and try the meds. I dare not toy with their conditions, out of my league. Though I know there is a lot of over-prescribing and too little non-drug therapy. The disclaimers that go with these forums should be truly heeded and not viewed as simply a CYA...
    Yes, I do agree. I would never tell someone to get off meds if they have a severe case of bi-polar or schizophrenia. But my point was, those conditions are pretty rare compared to the amount of people being given pills for life situations, poor health habit, stress, grief, etc. My poor mother-in-law, as I mentioned before, was hounded over her "tiredness" at age 76 to take SSRi's and even her former doctor scared her up when her husband died many years ago, saying that she couldn't survive it without Prozac. Lucky she wasn't one for pills or by now I'm sure she'd be on many and labeled as mentally ill.

    You know, since you mention bi-polar, I've read about some celebrity cases where although symptoms were present before meds, there had been a psychoactive drug history, sometimes illegal or legal. I wonder if there is a connection to them and also alcohol seems to be in the history too. I know people like Carrie Fisher, Robert DowneyJr., Margot Kidder and Patty Duke had drug histories before the diagnoisis and subsequent drug treatments for bi-polar. I read an article where Margot Kidder was on drug treatments for her bipolar and simply got worse; she decided to get off her meds and instead go to a doctor specializing in amino acid treatments and it was quite successful for her. I also read where some research indicated B-vitamins were helping cure schizophrenia. This all makes sense to me because I read that when protein digests, assisted by carbs and vitamins, , it breaks down into amino acids. If you look up amino acid charts, they all seem to be involved in creating neurotransmitters, vital for mental health!

    All that makes me wonder if there are better ways for the truly mentally ill other than toxic drugs. I realize in severe cases, they don't have time to fool around and the drugs definately are needed as some sort of control factor to save the person's life or others who might be in danger of those people. But I really think they don't spend enough research on exploring the other options....which I imagine are not as profitable, however, as drugs so maybe that's why the mainstream psychiatric doesn't go after such options.

    Drug treatment can still end up in disaster, look at Andrea Yates. One of the Columbine shooters was on Luvox, which can cause manic reactions and suicidial idealizations. Even if the Luvox didn't play a part in his thinking(which many believe it did), at the very least we can say the drug failed to do it's job in keeping the boy somewhat sane.

    Anyway, my whole point at the beginning was the drugs are prescribed often to too many people who may not be mentally ill at all; but these uncertain drugs are perfectly capable of creating mental illness over time...

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 12:38 PM   #127
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    Yes, I do agree. I would never tell someone to get off meds if they have a severe case of bi-polar or schizophrenia. But my point was, those conditions are pretty rare compared to the amount of people being given pills for life situations, poor health habit, stress, grief, etc. My poor mother-in-law, as I mentioned before, was hounded over her "tiredness" at age 76 to take SSRi's and even her former doctor scared her up when her husband died many years ago, saying that she couldn't survive it without Prozac. Lucky she wasn't one for pills or by now I'm sure she'd be on many and labeled as mentally ill.

    You know, since you mention bi-polar, I've read about some celebrity cases where although symptoms were present before meds, there had been a psychoactive drug history, sometimes illegal or legal. I wonder if there is a connection to them and also alcohol seems to be in the history too. I know people like Carrie Fisher, Robert DowneyJr., Margot Kidder and Patty Duke had drug histories before the diagnoisis and subsequent drug treatments for bi-polar. I read an article where Margot Kidder was on drug treatments for her bipolar and simply got worse; she decided to get off her meds and instead go to a doctor specializing in amino acid treatments and it was quite successful for her. I also read where some research indicated B-vitamins were helping cure schizophrenia. This all makes sense to me because I read that when protein digests, assisted by carbs and vitamins, , it breaks down into amino acids. If you look up amino acid charts, they all seem to be involved in creating neurotransmitters, vital for mental health!

    All that makes me wonder if there are better ways for the truly mentally ill other than toxic drugs. I realize in severe cases, they don't have time to fool around and the drugs definately are needed as some sort of control factor to save the person's life or others who might be in danger of those people. But I really think they don't spend enough research on exploring the other options....which I imagine are not as profitable, however, as drugs so maybe that's why the mainstream psychiatric doesn't go after such options.

    Drug treatment can still end up in disaster, look at Andrea Yates. One of the Columbine shooters was on Luvox, which can cause manic reactions and suicidial idealizations. Even if the Luvox didn't play a part in his thinking(which many believe it did), at the very least we can say the drug failed to do it's job in keeping the boy somewhat sane.

    Anyway, my whole point at the beginning was the drugs are prescribed often to too many people who may not be mentally ill at all; but these uncertain drugs are perfectly capable of creating mental illness over time...
    It makes sense that most people that are prescribed SSRIs do not need them. The vitamins, amino acid therapies fall under alternative medicine which seems to be just getting off the ground. Doctors are probably reluctant to delve in this arena for fear of lawsuits. We are a lawsuit happy nation, millionaires made over night over trivial matters. Prescribing F.D.A. approved medicines is a much safer bet for them. They have invested huge sums and effort in getting their licenses and do not want to lose them.

    I am aware of no solid clinical evidence that SSRIs or benzos cause "mental illness" or any permanent damage. In the case of the latter Ashton says the contrary. If one is to make such affirmations of fact please come with some solid broad based evidence. Something more than Breggin, one psychiatrist on the net that is selling books and taking patients. That is unless we are to call a withdrawal syndrome or anti-social behavior while on the drug "mental illness." But in that case there is hardly any mind altering, inhibition lowering drug that could be left out, including alcohol. Then we would have lawsuits against Budweiser. And the whole "the drug made me do it theme" is questionable in itself, "the twinkie defense."

    My contention all along has been that conclusions drawn from small samplings of internet personal testimonies or minimal and/or questionable internet sources, faulty analysis, and sometimes out and out fanaticism are hurting a lot of people, especially when such contentions are stated so a matter of factly. The truth is, according to Ashton, is that many come off of these drugs with no problems and the rest typically are fine within 3 months. With just with my own minimal time I have found at least a dozen people that came off benzos, some fast, some slow, some C/T, all fine within two months. This is the norm, what to be expected, but if someone is led to expect something different they are liable to get it. You see now why I am not welcome in your standard benzo support forums. Even though I always walked on eggshells and was far less candid than at present here. But actually I came here mainly to offer some support, not to re-visit the same old stuff I wisely removed myself from.

    Last edited by howard678; 05-06-2004 at 01:01 PM.

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 01:07 PM   #128
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    Re: when does it end

    You've got it by the tail now. From here on it is a choice.

    Last edited by windysan; 06-02-2004 at 10:28 AM.

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 01:35 PM   #129
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by amye123
    i know how you feel about the prickly stuff and anxiety i am on klonopin as welll do you see floaters in your eyes?
    amye i hated the prickly stuff it sucked but what do you mean by floaters in your eyes i also hated to constant panic over nothing not many people know what i'm talking about when i say prickly skin it's good to know some one finally knows what i'm talking about

    Last edited by no patience; 05-06-2004 at 01:36 PM.

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 01:49 PM   #130
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jennita
    Howard, do you have a link or some key words on the story concerning Stevie Knicks? I read one but it didn't mention how much she got up to in the one I read, I can't believe it was that high and she still had tolerance, wow!

    Kelligh, you can't beat yourself up about the methadone because physical pain is something that needs to be addressed; people get into accidents or injuries calls for some pain control intil they heal; nobody expects someone to live with severe pain. But they should have not cold-turkeyed you off it should be tapered properly but that doesn't always happen since they don't take the drugs that seriously...if a person isn't wildly abusing them, or on some illegal drug like cocaine, they don't think there should be much problems. I don't quite understand this, other than maybe they think just because it's controlled by prescription? Sometimes severe pain calls for larger doses and that is when it gets harder to come off of it.
    i know they should'nt have c/ted me i know that's alot of the reason i'm still so messed up methadone w/d is pretty severe and you're right about the higher doses that's one of the reasons i decided to come off it although when i finally hit the right amount it alleviated every bit of pain i had i strongly believe if some one is one a high dose of methadone (which 50 is not high compared to what the methadone clinic gives out) and they take that away c/t it does damage specifically brain chemical i know i have underlying issues but coming off this had made it much worse and even though i'm on lexapro and klonopin i don't feel normal anymore and 3 months later i feel like methadone w/d took apart of me with it i know i'm going on and on but this is why i'm so worried about klonopin now and all the other crap i'm on and i guess that's why i do beat myself up alot because methadone w/d has put so much fear in me i don't know what my problem is anymore that's why when the dr told me social anxiety i probably did buy into it a little just to ease my mind and say ok you're not crazy sorry so long and probably did'nt make alot of sense but that's where i'm at right now thanks again you and howard have been great kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 05-06-2004 at 01:52 PM.

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 02:14 PM   #131
    howard678
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    Re: when does it end

    Jennita,

    Sorry I missed the Stevie Knicks question. The number is 72 but forgot the potency. swear I cannot remember where I read it. Try Stevie Knicks, Klonopin. Will look more later, just got a bunch to do put on my plate...

    Windysan,

    She cannot be a pure Nimmo-ite as she is for some natural remedies, which are called "quack remedies" on Ray`s site and discussion of them is not allowed.

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 02:18 PM   #132
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Jennita,

    Sorry I missed the Stevie Knicks question. The number is 72 but forgot the potency. swear I cannot remember where I read it. Try Stevie Knicks, Klonopin. Will look more later, just got a bunch to do put on my plate...

    Windysan,

    She cannot be a pure Nimmo-ite as she is for some natural remedies, which are called "quack remedies" on Ray`s site and discussion of them is not allowed.
    howard what is a nimmo-ite? just curious

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 02:24 PM   #133
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    Re: when does it end

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by howard678
    Jennita,

    Sorry I missed the Stevie Knicks question. The number is 72 but forgot the potency. swear I cannot remember where I read it. Try Stevie Knicks, Klonopin. Will look more later, just got a bunch to do put on my plate...

    Windysan,

    She cannot be a pure Nimmo-ite as she is for some natural remedies, which are called "quack remedies" on Ray`s site and discussion of them is not allowed.
    howard when i looked up klonopin under ask je---- i found the stevie nicks story it was either klonopin or klonopin w/d can't be 100% sure kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 05-06-2004 at 02:26 PM.

     
    Old 05-06-2004, 09:05 PM   #134
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    Re: when does it end

    Kelleigh,

    You are my role model as well friend. Read your other thread. You also are working, and unlike me, you are dealing with severe chronic back pain. You know I was just concerned about the Klonopin as I know how tough these withdrawals can be. In a nutshell, the nervous system just cannot take much stress until the body adjusts to not having the drugs. You do not want to know about it. So take heart and be of good cheer. I am just an everyday person like you.

     
    Old 05-07-2004, 04:08 AM   #135
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    Re: when does it end

    thanks howard that means alot i consider you a friend to i needed to hear that as for being a role model thank you for that to and thanks for every thing you've been great all your info and advice has helped me so much i can't thank you enough kelleigh

     
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