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    Old 04-26-2004, 09:49 AM   #31
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Hey User,

    My gawd, I thought you would never read my posting! I just wanted to say thanks for your postings and giving me the courage to really get off all of this crap. I believe that a person is ready to deal with their demons, they will. Until then, you can't push "tough love" on everybody. It just doesn't work for everybody. However, know that you have truly helped a few people. That you should relish in and be grateful that you have saved a few people from this hell. I am grateful to you for that...

    It really isn't easy, but if you keep busy and down Motrin, it's OK. The first week was hell. I still am going through it with the insomnia. When is that ever going to ease up?

    When do you actually start to feel better?

    Thanks again.

    Over it!

     
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    Old 04-26-2004, 10:09 AM   #32
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Over, sounds like you are starting week 2, is this correct? If so, just based on my own experience, week 2 was great for me. I took a vacation and got quite a bit of exercize, and my mind was distracted. When I got back to work, the third week was worse, but I was dwelling on not feeling well, and was upset with my leg aches. Then week 4 was a breakthrough...mind and body were much, much better. For me, the cravings were never an issue after the first 5 days. What didn't help, was that as my brain was clearing (I could literally feel new "waves" of sensation running through my head), but it lead me to become angry with myself that I had allowed myself to get into an cycle of abuse to begin with. Finally, I decided to set that aside and just think about the future. I live in a cold climate, so I was freezing my *** of for weeks, which also didn't help. Plus, as my mind got better, I allowed paranoid thoughts to creep in, mostly about my own self-deception that other people were not aware I had a problem. Wrong. By the way, the sleep will return very soon. Did your doctor give you trazadone? It helps and is not addictive. For you now, everyday will be better.

    Going back to the tough love approach, a lot of it stems from this new drug suboxone, which I know is good for certain situations (heroin, methadone), but I am seeing an ever increasing attitude that sub is a "cure" for addiction. It is a narcotic drug (Chef pointed this out recently). Read the stories; they are scary. I am phrasing this simply, but I am sure you see my point. I would rather see this as a last resort than a first resort, and hope that hydro abusers can find the will to beat it with some personal strength and commitment. For me, an uncomfortable withdrawal is a damm good experience to have to remind us to pay for what we do to our bodies, and in the grand scheme, a week or month of discomfort is not a high price for our own choices and stupidity. I'll tell you, I got very frustrated with this last week, but when I saw your post today, it is worth it, even for just one person. Don't give up.

     
    Old 04-26-2004, 10:50 AM   #33
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Hey User,

    Yes, I'm truly on week 2. The doctor didn't give me trazadone. They gave me something else, but doesn't really work for insomnia. Didn't really sleep still on it. I never got the leg aches ( I kick box and do martial arts). The exercise helps tremondously. I think that's where people don't succeed. They don't exercise and feel the normalcy of the endorphin rush. That kept me going throughout my hydro use. I love the clarity that my mind has now, especially for school. Not only that, I'm creative again whereas before I was so brain dead on the hydros. You know what I mean?

    Now on the suboxone. I agree with you also, I don't like replacing a drug with another. You as a man, had a lot more freedom to detox. Whereas a lot of women out there who care for children that are 5 and under as well as their daily activities, it at times not possible to taper or just withdrawl. It DOES HELP. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

    The sub to me is not a cure. It was a crutch to the next phase of withdrawls. I took Sub back and forth only for a few weeks at a time because I would feel the f*k**g withdrawls when I didn't take it, but not as bad as 30+ daily hydro use for a year withdrawls. Then I thought, I'm back in that viscious cycle. Might as well have detox without it. However, still for the record, it did save me also from that bad habit. Then, I just got smart and found a successful way around it. I won't take it for maintenence. I HAVE TO BE STRONG. There is just no way around it mentally, you know?

    I have to go. Way late for class. Talk to ya later.

    Over It!

     
    Old 04-26-2004, 11:17 AM   #34
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    I have no doubt sub would help, but to me, it would only defer the inevitable (why?), plus, hydro is out of your body in only four short days. Plus, from what I understand, the sub withdrawal is much worse, which is why you see so many people thinking it is a lifetime solution right out of the box. Like any narcotic, it has abuse potential, plus, how can it not have some long-term detrimental impact on the brain, let alone the dependance? How many sub users do you know who don't take anti-depressants and sleeping pills? I know I will take a rash of crap for this, and I don't care, but to me, the avoidance of withdraw isn't a good enough reason. I'm not talking about heroin or methadone users, just hydro, and I want people to know that heavy users can get off of this stuff and be completely clean. We are talking about a week or two, that's it. My schedule is just as hectic as anyone's, man or woman, and my responsibilities as an investment banker, father, and husband are considerable. I worked during withdrawals. No, it wasn't pleasant, but not unbearable either, and in a short time, it's over. I'm not taking anything...no sleeping pills, no anti-depressants, no Xanax, nothing. I'll probably get banned for saying all of this, but if I can reach one person and convince them that a drug-free hydro withdrawal is not only possible, but so worth it, and they have their life back, then I will take some comfort in proving there is another option available that only requires an honest commitment to be drug free.

    Last edited by User 205000; 04-26-2004 at 11:19 AM.

     
    Old 04-26-2004, 12:11 PM   #35
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Hi User, I don't believe you and I have ever exchanged post. However, I must admit, I enjoy reading your post. First I would like to say congratulations on your success of not using anymore. I was addicted to Norco for three years. I started out taking it only as rx'd, but of course it got out of hand after about a year. I have a bulging torn disc and have tried physical therapy, steriod injections and just about every anti-infammatory there is with no relief. I will be having back surgery in the next year or two. It's not really an option right now since I have three little one's and I would not be able to pick up on them for at least 3 months since the surgery will consist of putting an artifical disc in. However, I did not want to continue the madness of abusing any longer. I tried quitting three times without success. I will be the first to admit, my will power is not the strongest, I guess that's why I got addicted to beging with. So after reading how much Sub helped Banker and several others on this board I thought that would be the right choice for me. It has now been six weeks of taking Sub and I'm doing great. Being Sub is a narcotic and it does help with my chronic back pain, for me it's been great. I'm not saying it's not going to suck when I try to quit taking them, but for right now at least I'm not on the verge of od'ing daily. So for me, I'm actually killing two birds with one stone because it helps with my back pain plus I'm not in that madness of trying to get and stay "high".
    And believe it or not, the ONLY medication I am on is the Sub. No anti-depressant, Xanax, or any other drug. Thank God.
    I just thought I would let you know that I happen to be one of those who do not take other drugs with the Sub. Not that I'm knocking those who need to.
    Hopefully you will still be posting on these boards when I come off of the Sub because you do offer great advice and encouragement.

    Thanks
    Sammi

     
    Old 04-26-2004, 01:50 PM   #36
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Hey User,

    I agree with you still, it most certainly delays the inevitable. Withdrawing from the Sub is a much longer process than plain old hydro withdrawl. That is most definitely true. Yep, my brain actually got kind of weirded out on the Sub because I really wasn't on it for a long period of time for it to adjust. But, it was as if the Sub made you feel as though you were on 20+ hydros (you know how the mind play tricks on you when you consume a lot of hydros, well that was was the Sub felt like). I, always took my only dose in the morning because I didn't want to be on it for a long time. I wanted to be completely opiate free and here I am today. Yes, I believe my withdrawls are extended because of Sub use as well. That is a price that I have to pay for, but at least I got out a little earlier because I feared the inevitable as well, the "withdrawls". I'm unsure whether I'm truly on the 2nd week of being clean or still on my 5th day because the withdrawls are so extensive. I do not want to use it for maintainence, but that is my prerogative. I believe I'm mentally stronger than most though. I do not take any anti-depressants nor anti-anxiety meds, they only exacerbate more drug use and addiction.

    The only reason I still advocate the Sub because there was a guy here by the name of "Happy FAther" that OD'd on hydros. Well, he was on a combination of drugs-yes, a walking chemistry set, but he was going back and forth on the Sub. He was screaming for help, but he was so scared of the Sub because of the negativity that was surrounding it. I firmly believe if he went on the Sub, he would have been alive today and posting on this board. It is a shame that he left behind his wife and young kids because of hydro abuse. Well, if you were on this board at that time, I believe you could have helped him as well. I believe, men need that type of comraderie just like us women if not more so. If you do an advanced search and look under his user name, you will see the struggles and battles he was going through. Some people just aren't mentally strong like us, that is where the Sub can save someone else's life. That is why the drug was made. Some people are just born as addicts and unfortunately, they need medication like that instead of OD'ing. Its all genetics too, you know.

    Nevertheless, your work here is still very important. There really hasn't been another man besides Chef that tells it like it really is. There are people here that need the "tough love" fatherly approach. You're helping still even though you get crap for it. But who cares, you're saving lives and that alone should be worth the crap that others write. I'm not going to lie about the Sub and its side effects nor the withdrawl process-its double time. The Sub can help people as well, but shouldn't be a crutch also. The withdrawls are still there after the fact. It can work wonders if you take it for a few days only.

    Only, the user/abuser/addict can truly weigh out their own options. We, User and I, are just laying out all of our experiences to help or support anybody that may need it.

    Just don't OD and die from all of the hydro use. Remember, you don't DIE from withdrawls, but you can DIE from consuming too much hydro/tylenols. Your liver can only take so much abuse.

    Take care.
    Over it.

    Last edited by over; 04-26-2004 at 01:56 PM.

     
    Old 04-26-2004, 02:22 PM   #37
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Over,
    Well said. Sitter called in sick, so posts I have saved in my brain will have to wait yet another day . . . . Another day with no hydros, yeah!

    luv,
    rosie

     
    Old 04-26-2004, 04:07 PM   #38
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    Talking Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rosietee
    Over,
    Well said. Sitter called in sick, so posts I have saved in my brain will have to wait yet another day . . . . Another day with no hydros, yeah!

    luv,
    rosie

    Go, Rosie, GO!!!!
    Alice

     
    Old 04-26-2004, 11:16 PM   #39
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    hi over
    could you tell me what happenened to happy father i used to lurk this board and read a lot of his post also want to congratulate you on your progress
    bob
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    chronic pain sufferer from pinched nerve in c67,disc protusions in c2,c3,c4 osteophytes in c3,c4

     
    Old 04-27-2004, 01:24 PM   #40
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Hi Bob,

    Happy Father passed away a few months ago, I believe around Christmas last year, 2003. His wife wrote the board to inform us and thank us for all of the help that we provided him. Unfortunately, it was too late. It was a somber day, but a rude awakening for a lot of us as well.

    You can do an advanced search and search under user name. Read about his battles that he was experiencing at that time.

    Who really knows what others have passed from this pathethic existence of drug use, addiction and abuse.

    Take care.

     
    Old 04-27-2004, 10:44 PM   #41
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    thanks over for your reply i wll look thru his old posts i think between thanksgiving and christmas i was reading his post and became inerested in what he had to say as i have a coworker that i think has some substance abuse issues and was looking for clues as that person is a long time family friend as well i am concerned about that person because i suspect this person is abusing any opiates that can be gotten or bought or by dr shopping for whatever paon of the day excuse this person can come up with i am a chronic pain sufferer who is dependent on narcotics to ease my suffering and to bring my pain down to a tolerable level and once this person found this out is constantly saying they are in severve pain and could you please let me have a couple of roxicodone until i get to the dr i either say i dont have any to spare which is the the truth i only get my meds prescibed for exactly what my dose is for the number of days till my next appt and i bring with me any meds i did not take on certain times during a day the i should be fortunate to not be in pain and the dr subtracts them from the next prescription so i honestly do not have nor would i ever give any extra meds to anyone sorry for the long post i just wanted to fill you in on why i was interested in happy father got to get of here my pain levels shoot up when i sit to long i also want to say that i am very proud of you and all the other posters here on this board for all of the courage and determination in the effort all of you are putting forth to get clean you guys and gals seem like one big family trying to help each other thru all of the tuff times that you all are going thru kudos for all of you i will keep you in my prayer for your continued success god bless all of you
    bob
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    Old 04-28-2004, 09:50 AM   #42
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Hey Sammi,

    Sorry, but I didn't see your post earlier. I just wanted to respond to your post. Yes, I agree the Sub does help with your pain. I have chronic pain too and it did help. Now that I'm off hydros and the Sub, I feel the pain.

    Your back is messed up! I know how painful that can be. How can you care for your kids that way when you barely could walk? Where are your bulging discs? Cervical, thoracic or lumbar? You know, have you tried accupuncture? IT WORKS! Believe or not. Until you get your back surgery anyway. How did you back get injured?

    I know that you are on the Sub which is very helpful, however, the withdrawls are there after. I know, I know, not to really preach bad things about it, but the longer you are on it, the harder. Just a reality check. But don't despair, you can beat the withdrawls after as well. I just want to be honest with it and not truly discourage anybody that is on it. Smart move that you aren't on anything else too. It only makes your withdrawls later two fold.

    Congrats on getting rid of your pill abuse, though! I'm finally feeling much much better. I'm so much happier.

    Take care and post if you have any questions!!

     
    Old 04-28-2004, 11:13 AM   #43
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    Cool Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    hey, User....

    Just want to say that I'm glad you didn't disappear, as you threatened, when you discovered here that 50 percent of us posters can use tough love--but the other 50 percent of us can't! I think if you help even 50 percent--that's GREAT!!! (I've never been a tough-love person myself--but I'm 100 percent honest about myself...which helps!!

    Anyway, just wanted to point out something that you and Over may find interesting. My doctor, long ago when I had a horrible clinical depression, said wait until it's a little better before you try to do things you love--because the realization that when you try that activity to help mend yourself (say, skiing (my favorite), it brings you no joy at all can be mentally horrific to many depression sufferers. Withdrawal brings out my old clinical depression...and the other day, defying what he'd told me so long ago, I took out my push scooter...and headed for the steepest hills around (I LOVE that adrenalin.) Well! The experience of careening straight down the hill--with not ONE sense of joy or adventure--or even fear--was devastating. For myself, I need to be quiet during this period...read, do crossword puzzles, quiet walks with my dogs, etc. It's so interesting how our bodies all differ so much.

    Anyway, I haven't written much lately....but I read all I can. And you both have some wonderful advice to offer. Thanks! Lynn

     
    Old 04-28-2004, 01:48 PM   #44
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Lynn, nice of you to say what you did. As I just told Michelle in another thread, I am just a blunt person, and I have come to realize that in terms of my own personality, "one size doesn't fit all". While I do believe there is a lot of sugar coating of some very ugly issues here, a gentler approach could help others, so I am trying my best. I mean this when I say it is that the last thing I want to do is hurt someone, versus help them, especially when they have had the courage to reach out here.

    Your anecdote is interesting, and I just returned from sailing, which is one of my passions, and I can tell you that what your doctor described is very true. It was very therapeutic and enjoyable, and now I am in a "quiet mode", and the combination is great. Take care, G

    Last edited by User 205000; 04-28-2004 at 01:48 PM.

     
    Old 04-28-2004, 02:20 PM   #45
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    Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..

    Hi Lynn and User~

    Thanks for your post. Nice to meet you, met your sister on another thread! Weren't you the Londoner? I lived there also, and of course drugs galore. Man, they sure know how to party there, ay?

    Like, User, I'm also a blunt person, but because I'm a woman, that doesn't always fly, you know. I'm an ex fashion mogul and quite honestly, learnt to be such a demanding b*tch that often times I wished that I could be more subtle.

    I'm not quite there with "quiet mode" yet. Although, every day just gets better, the sobriety and the clarity! Its so refreshing to feel alive and loving life again. Especially in the Spring when its beautiful. I haven't truly had a chance to do what I really love, but will do when I get a chance. Now skiing at Mammoth is pretty awesome, Lynn!! Its breath-taking out here! I wonder if there is still fresh powder.

    Hey User,
    I'm glad you haven't dissappeared here, either. You seem to be quite a thinker. Along the same lines as I. Got any great investment tips for me yet? My stocks plummetted and lost my a*s. You know tech stocks...sucked big time. Now that I'm clear headed, I need to invest my $$. Your post to Michelle was awesome. Very truthful, yet done in a non-User fashion, but clearly with blunt facts. I've liked the way you have accommodated your thoughts for people here...Great work you are doing. Keep it up! How do you find the time as well?

    Take care.

    Last edited by over; 04-28-2004 at 02:21 PM.

     
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