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over 04-21-2004 02:36 PM

My story-getting off hydro and sub..
I've been reading all of your posts for the last several months and stopped posting myself a few months ago because I just kept relapsing over and over. This is a very long post , but nonetheless, interesting to read?!

The boards have been very encouraging lately especially with the men around here, i.e. User and Chef. I, myself, like the tough love approach because basically there is no sugar coating anything about drugs and addiction. Its the fu.k..g truth about us. An ugliness that nobody wants to admit to. You see, I use to be a pharm tech and I have seen thousands of addicts on pills and quite honestly, chemically it is not good for your body and brain. It just messes you up.

Even for me, an over-achiever, type A personality, single mom of a 5 year old, beautiful, a body to kill for, has her own home, in grad school,very successful in my former career and drive a bitchin' car(I'm not boasting, just trying to make a point). So how the hell did I end up a damn junkie and a big, big Vicodin, Lortab, Norco abuser of 25-35 tabs a day? Sometimes, taking 10 at a time like as if it was going out of style. Well, I have always like the high off opiates than any other drug. Don't get me wrong, I occassionally smoke pot. I did cocaine when I was in my twenties, but quit after a while. Speed is not my thing. Did a lot of esctasy also in the past, but you know , just like mushrooms, you can't do those forever. Name it, I've done it! Except Heroin. I've always knew if I tried it, there would be no turning back so I will never cross that line. But Vicodin, man, oh man, best drug in the world!!!

However, Vicodin ruined my life. May be one of the greatest highs, but also the worst to get off. I have REAL pain issues though. Initally started off as a RX from my doc until he said no more refills! OK, then, lets go on the internet. Well, what a mistake that was. Initally started on 90 tabs that lasted a month or so, then dosages increased and increased until I could barely function without it. I started doctor shopping and before you know it I was on 30 tabs a day with 3-4 different scripts of it and FedEX, UPS trucks on a 2-3 day interval basis ringing on my doorbell.

Talk about a loser, gawd, it was absolutlely pathetic. My life was on a downward spiral for a year. I could barely take care of my daughter, not to mention that my funds were getting depleted. I was engaged to a wonderful man, but I screwed that one up as well at that time. I was too messed up and one of my dogs got killed by some type of bird. It was very upsetting and I am still grieving from it. It was my fault, no one else's. I even got into a bad car accident on the freeway!!! Luckily, there were no injuries on myself nor my daughter, but the car was totaled! I was a real mess. You would have thought that those were wake up calls for me, right? Nope! Kept on with the hydros and couldn't stop. I wasn't taking anything else with hydros except Soma occassionally with it. I do not take anti-depressants or anything else really. I noticed than when I took Soma with Hydros, the withdrawls would double. So I stopped taking it and noticed a big difference. Just a point for you guys. I think combining hydros with other drugs, the withdrawls are two fold .

The wake up call for me happened when I read about Happy Father who use to post on these boards, but OD'd one day when his wife wrote to us to let us know. I will never forget that day. It scared the fu..k..g crap out of me. And for a lot of people as well. He was back and forth about the Sub, but didn't was scared because of other what other posters said. If only he went to see the Sub doctor, it could have saved his life, like it did mine.

Actually, everyone here on the boards saved my life by posting their experiences. And for that, I THANK EVERYONE OF YOU OUT THERE! Especially Banker, Michelle, Spark, Chef, Yinksy, and anyone else who I have forgotten who are constant posters and whose words of wisdom and knowledge have truly saved lives. Please don't stop posting anybody. It really helps us ALOT! THANK YOU, THANK YOU !

I, also, do not like the idea of trading a drug for another. But, since I am a single mom, the idea of an in-patient rehab was impossible. I contemplated even Methadone as outpatient, but I couldn't fathom myself going to a clinic for my medication all the time with my daughter. Not a pretty sight. I couldn't tell anybody about my addiction. Although, it was getting more and more apparent by my erradict behavior. I just didn't know how to get off the pills. I've been on withdrawls before when you run out, but always relasped because the FEDEX truck was coming! I am not strong enough to taper off hydros. I just couldn't do it.

If it wasn't for the people who encouraged at that time to seek Subutex , I probably would have been on 40 tabs of hydros a day by now.

Anyway, I got the courage to see an addictionologist in Hollywood. He is a Pschyciatrist and also works inpatient rehab hospital. (You should have heard the stories he told me about some of these Hollywood people!) You could imagine how many people he's treated because of the city. Anyway, he gave me a treatment plan that you should taper off the Subutex by two weeks and just stop by the end of two weeks. If you couldn't, then stay on it, he said for cravings. Well, I stayed on because I was scared of the cravings.

They did tell me that from their experience, pill addicts have a much harder time coming off Sub then their Heroin, Cocaine addicts do. They don't know why, but pill addicts constantly relapse. I thought, no I won't do that, I'm much stronger. Yeah, right. I tried their regimen, but relasped because I wanted the high after still. So there again, I went back to the Vicodin though only 30 tabs at a time. Don't get me wrong, my tolerance went way down and I was taking about 50mg a day after that in comparision to 300mg a day from past hydro use. I would then quit and used Subutex for a few days again. Back and forth for a few months like that. So basically, my body was never opiate free. Well, maybe for a couple of days only until I felt the Suboxone wearing off. It truly doesn't dissipate from your body until 36 hours. Man, I could feel it. So I would take about 1 mg of Sub and feel better. Intially started off with 32 mg of Sub and by three weeks ended up only on .50 mg. I was scared of withdrawls! The doc gave me 8mg tabs and I had to cut them myself to make them 1 or 2 mg.

So here I am again today. From reading everone's constant postings, my mind is made up. Not only that, my mind and body is frankly very tired of this roller coaster. I think that is what is getting to me. On the Sub, I feel so sober and normal, you know? I feel sober! That is what my life use to be, but without Sub, though.

I am quitting for good now. I'm in withdrawls now,not bad, because in reality I'm withdrawing from the Sub now and honestly feels like the 3rd day of withdrawls from Hydro. My last Vicodin ES was last Friday. I have been on Sub 1mg every other day since then, only in the morning. I do not take a dose in the afternoon. I always wait until morning. When I feel crappy by 3:00pm, I would go exercise and feel better. Believe me, I have to force myself to do that! I have not taken any Sub since Monday and I am feeling it now. It is a long withdrawl, but I've been busy with school. Luckily, I'm an Art major and its OK, you know?

Today it has been harder though. But, I'm determined now. My body is screaming for help, but I just can't do it anymore. My fiancee and I are back together and honestly, I know God has given me a second chance in life and I CANNOT screw this up. This is what I need to do for my daughter. I already messed up her life. I need to give her a second chance at having a real family! I can't go on like this anymore. I need to be strong. I WILL NOT be powerless to the drug anymore! It will not control me. Funny , I use to think like that, but not anymore. I always was in control. I didn't like being not in control. However, I've become a complete loser in life now. I need to get back on track.

So, this is what I've been through....Suboxone did save my life though, no doubt about. Without it, I'll probably be still an addict or dead. I agree with Spark-O-Cet about taking it only for a couple of weeks. Then just stop, but taper in those two weeks to nothing every day, like my doc said. Decrease your dose every day. I never took Sub in the afternoon because of insomnia, just like Spark mentioned. My last sub dose was just powder chips of it two days ago. I believe that for you on the Suboxone now, just taper every 36 hours and spread out your doses initially. I believe that should help you all. It will be a slow taper, probably a couple of months. Talk to your Sub doctor. I also take Neurontin for nerve pain. The Neurontin actually helps me with the withdrawls. It is NOT metabolized by the liver, only by the urine. So it is a very safe drug and not addicting. It actually is an anti-seizure medication. My neurologist gave it to me initally. Doctors are prescribing that more and more for pain managment. Also helps you sleep. I also heard that NONI, the Hawaiiain health tonic helps alot with withdrawls. I never tried it, but I read from other boards that it helps.

I guess I'm posting because I do need support. I thought I could do this by myself, but you know, I really can't . That is something really hard for me to admit. I'm not a person to go to meetings also. Thank god for the internet. I'm a chronic pain suffer and I have ADD. But, I will be drug free and live a sober life, one day at a time. It will be a lifelong battle.

Over it! :eek:

chefob1 04-21-2004 02:59 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
hey over.....good post...dont mind me askin,how old are ya and are you dating?....also do you go to any a/a or n/a mtgs.....Hollywood?is that cali?......too bad you dont live near fla.........chef

rosietee 04-21-2004 03:05 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
Over, thank you so, so much for posting! What an inspiration you are. My last mg of suboxone was on Sunday, so perhaps we are on similar footing? Right now I am mainly dealing with stomach problems. I was only on the suboxone for 1 week with a maximum dose of 6 mg/day at an inpatient detox, though, so I may be better off, perhaps, though I am also w/d from benzos as further explained below. I have 2 little ones 3 and under, so it was hard, but I do still have a spouse and the godparents stayed for the week to help with the kids. I have a sitter the first 3 days of the week, but you might not see as much of me the next couple of days, as I will be home alone with the kids. You are so incredibly strong to come so far as a single parent, with all you have been through.

BTW, I was previously taking, like you, at least 20-30 of the 10 mg hydro/day, but to tell you the truth, I was losing count. I was using so many OP's that I am thinking I was lying to myself and was really taking much, much more. I did manage to taper down from January to April to about 8-10 pills per day, and then jumped back up during the week before my detox. Our method of obtaining them was the same. I also initially began with pain issues. I am also detoxing from 2-3 mg of klonopin per day. I initially ordered that last year to do my own detox from the hydros and then started taking them and was afraid to stop because I had a seizure in the past, but never really stopped the hydros, so ended up on both.

The only thing I would ask you to reconsider would be attending meetings. You would never ever imagine me going to an NA meeting. However, I have found the right meetings and think they will be instrumental in saving my life, especially at first, as my brain "heals". I also found a sponsor who is alot like us, but it took me a few different meetings to find her. If you haven't read my saga of attending the least appropriate meeting possible, then let me know and I'll share. Also, out here in So Cal (yes, hi, I'm south of you) we have Pills Anonymous meetings, but they are pretty hardcore. I know that I need my prozac, darnit, and I am not going to risk my health and life just to be "pill-free", but maybe I just caught them on a bad day.

Thank you so much for your story, which helped me so, so much today. It sounds like you have the idea down, though, that we can only do it one day at a time and that is it. Forever is way too long.


over 04-21-2004 03:46 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
Hi Rosietee,

I'm sorry for not mentioning you in my posting, but I've have been following your story as well. You also gave me the strength to quit! I'm very proud of you going to rehab with 3 kids. I know how hard that is leaving them! But it is the best thing you could have done. I so wish at times that I could have done that as well. Being with people in the same boat is so supportive and I think as addicts, we need that support! I'm so happy for you! Don't you feel better though? The Sub is definitely a life saver!

Yes, of course we can be support to each other. Plus you're in my town! I want to talk to you more about the Pills anonymous thing. I'm just so scared of those meetings and such.

I have to go. I have a night class to go to. Ugh! help me!!!! I'm going to down some Motrin 800mg!

I'll talk to you later! Be strong! I'm so proud of you ! Especially your kids! Just imagine, you enjoy being with them now instead of being a druggie mom! Take care! :wave:

Over it! :eek:

rosietee 04-21-2004 03:50 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
Don't be too proud--I don't have 3 kids--I'm the one with only 2! but they are small so it was hard. Have a good class and I'm glad you have joined us.


over 04-21-2004 03:54 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
Hey Chef,

Man, I bet you're an awesome cook! When I'm in Florida, I'll be sure to stop by your cafe. No, I don't go to meetings. I should, but I'm scared. Should I go to AA or NA? I'm just not a meetting kind of person. I guess its because I would feel like a druggie there and I'm scared of that. I can't drink because I'm allergic to alcohol. Thank god for that.

You're funny. I'm in my late 30's, almost 40, but a good looking druggie hot moma that is almost 40 years old though. The hydros are a good diet appetitie suppressant! eh? I live in Calif...2nd drug capital to Florida.

I really appreciate your knowledge. Thanks for all of your postings...Keep on posting, bro.......Remember..You save lives!!!!! Regardless of your past!

Over It! :eek:

Banker 04-21-2004 06:47 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
Over - I'm proud of you and YOU are in inspiration to me. How long over the past month or so have you been on Suboxone? I mean, you said you were going back and forth so I was just wondering if it's really good in your system or if it's a combo of both. I'm assuming, since you said it saved your life that you were on it for a while prior to this detox? I'm like you were - I'm just too damn scared of not being successful and being strong enough to stay off of hydros. I'm very scared! But I really do hope you continue posting to us and letting us know how you are doing and how your wds are. And congrats on your decision to get clean...

See - I hope user is reading this. Tell me you don't have an impact on people?

doggreensector 04-22-2004 02:47 AM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
Over, I read your entire story. It is 2:36 am today and I have horrible insomnia due to the fact I am in my fifth day off of vikes. My usage was not that high only due to the fact that my system is sensitive and I never had to take that much to get pretty high but none the less I was addicted to vicodin for well over a year and I have had a horrible time getting off of them.

It sounds like you are very commited to staying off of them for good. I feel the same way as you. My wife has prodded me a bit to go to meetings. Quite frankly I am not a meeting person either. I went to AA years ago and the most I got out of it was a little moral support and not much else. With that being said I am sure that the meetings do help some people.

I don't know how I let myself get hooked on the vikes. I got the horrible mood swings and fits of rage which I took out on my poor wife. I owe her lots of amends including my son. I was fast becoming a full blown loser. In the last year I have been through probably 10 jobs in my field because of my p-ss poor attitude and fits of anger vikes caused me. I started with a decent company in So Cal last week and something just clicked and told me "your done" "its over"

So this is my fifth day and I feel better, not terrific mind you but a little better. Good luck on your road to a good peace of mind.

over 04-22-2004 09:11 AM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
Hi Banker,

I'm proud of YOU and how you have helped so many people. How do you find the time to do that still with 3 little ones and with no man around? YOU are the true inspiration here. So brave with 3 kids. Honestly, in this day and age, who really needs a man? You're successful and beautiful. In regards to the Sub, I don't knock it for people who really need it. If it is saving your life, then take it for maintenence. Then deal with the withdrawls later. Its like taking anti-depressants. You have to taper off them as well, so why not with the Sub also. Like I mentioned in my post, when you are ready to sto p with Sub, do a slow taper and I believe it should be OK. Don't be scared! Gawd, you're raising 3 kids BY YOURSELF. That's more scary than the Sub withdrawls! YOu know what I mean?? Please try to find time to exercise, the endorphins do wonders for you! Honestly, I don't know how I would have survived without that endorphin rush. I would probably be on anti-depressants, but I don't want to be. I have ADD too and its tough, you know. You know the story very well, because you live it like I do, Banker.

In the last month, I was using Sub 1-2mg alternating with hydro use in between on a daily basis. For example, take sub for a couple of days, then taking hydros, back and forth. Kind of like what Michelle did, go on hydro binges and then back onto the Sub for withdrawls. It was that kind of roller coaster. Quite honestly, when I was on the Sub for a few days, I would feel normal, but I was on Sub still. In the back of my mind, I knew I was still on opiates. I decided last time, then I had to taper with 30 vikes to help me with getting off the Sub. I took Sub still after my last vike the day after. The 2nd day off the last vike, I took powder chips of Sub. Then went completely off it.

Yesterday was hard. I have been Sub free for 3 days and I feel the withdrawls. I feel fluish and MOtrin helps a bit, also taking a Robaxin (muscle relaxer, non-addicting) to help a little. Clonodine at night for blood pressure. The withdrawls are not that bad, but nonetheless THERE. I feel like reaching for my Sub, but my day is going to be slow today. Just going to school later and going to the gym for a couple of hours. If I had something really really important to do, I may go for powder chips of Sub so I could get by normally. I want to spread out the doses by several days 72-96 hours so it would be like a very very slow taper. I still don't feel all normal yet. I will post more later.

Keep up the great work.

Over it! :eek:

over 04-22-2004 09:23 AM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
HI Greensector,

I'm so like you with the Vikes. I got awful mood swings and I was just so sensitive. I would be angry all the time especially when you were coming down form them? Right? That god you're wife hasn't left you by know! Have you aplogize for your behaviour to her? I had to apologize to a few people because of my erradict behavior. I felt so bad. I'm just in school,but at that time could barely function at school and my grades were dropping. If I had a job, I probably be fired too. Get sober then think about looking for a job! Then work hard at it and your family. It should be OK. Just be strong!

I know that insomnia so well. At times, you get scared of bedtime because of it! Are you taking benadryl 50mg with clonodine? That should help.

I'm proud of you! I feel the withdrawls still. It will be a long one for me because of the Sub. I was using heavily on hydros for the past year with Sub after.

Over it. :eek:

doggreensector 04-22-2004 09:54 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
Hi over:

Thank you for the support. I have only taken flexeril and theraflu to deal with the wd's the flexeril helped for the first three days along with the theraflu. My doctor really did not want to take the flexeril beyond 5 days. I decided to stop the flexeril completely last night. I had a horrible experience that scared the daylights out of me. I woke up in a total sweat and hyper-ventilating like a mad man. In otherwords I was in a full blown panic attack. What really scared me to death was when I took my pulse. I expected my heartbeat to be at least 100 per minute. But that was not the case my heartbeat was only at 59-65.

Needless to say I stayed up in a panic taking my pulse until it got up to at least 75 beats per minute. I am sure that this was caused from the flexeril. Since last night, I have taken the flexeril and thrown them right in the toilet.

As far as my job and my wife go they are still there. I owe my wife and son tons of amends that will not make up for the horrible way I spoke to them.

Thanks for you nice comments, over.

Good luck,

doggreensector (Keith)

Banker 04-23-2004 04:50 AM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
How are you doing now? I'm VERY proud of you for hanging on. And just be glad you only have school to deal with right now. How old are you? I'm assuming you are young and if so, you are so smart to be doing this right now while you are still young so you can have a normal life. VERY smart and wise. Anyway, thank you for your sweet post! It made my day. Keep up the great work and please keep us posted... K?

over 04-23-2004 12:45 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
I'm not young at all. I'm 38 years old and will turn 39 in a few months, but feel like 80 at times you know? How are you doing? I'm not smart or wise, just learnt from all my mistakes . All ADD'ers learn best from their mistakes. Trust me, I have made many and constantly have to rectify my mistakes. Its a never ending story. I have lived so many years without help of medication for my ADD, but learnt to adapt and focus my mind accordingly. It really sometimes, is just nutrition and diet with exercise and a lot of mind over matter. Its never easy. My house is a friggin mess all the should see my office, piles and piles of paperwork, neverending. But at work, I wasn't really like that. I guess sometimes, I would get bored and just clean my desk. Besides, I had to or else you really couldn't concentrate on the paperwork.

I just decided to go back to school because I was going through a divorce. I had a full blown great career, but gave them up for a while to be with then my 2 year old then. It just tore me to shreads knowing that my daughter was going to be without a "dad" around. You know what I mean? I, like you, went through custody and so forth and the Vikes helped me just numb all of my feelings. I was just so angry and hurt from my ex. It really is a long story...the kind the most women should hear...he just kind of left and said he was unhappy...after I fianically supported him and put him through school for 7 years while I was pregnant and working!..anyway..then 2 mos later..he told me "Oh, I have a new girlfriend and by the way she is pregnant!"..Gawd, my life just shattered after because all I could think of is of my daughter. So I just use Vikes as a crutch for my pain and depression. So your life doesn't seem all that bad, huh? Well, you haven't heard the rest of my other stories yet. There are more!!!

For today..I had the worst insomnia did not sleep a wink! The insomnia does persist from the Sub withdrawl though. It is a long withdrawl process, yesterday I was so lethargic, but kept on going. Today, I'm a walking Zombie and I have to go and make ceramic plates and dishes soon.

Its a shame that we have to be anonymous. I think we can be pretty go friends since we are kind of in the same boat.

Take care. I'm proud of you Super mom! How do you get all of your kids ready in the morning and get to work on time? As an ADD'er are you always late as well? YOU are the best here, big heart and wonderful person.

Thank you for saving my life! I will never forget the encouragement you gave me to see the Sub doctor. Thank you. Do you believe in karma? Good things always return back to you when you do good things for others.

Over It!

over 04-23-2004 12:57 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
HI Keith,
How are you doing? You know, flexeril is a muscle relaxant. It can lower your heartbeat significantly. You did the right thing by getting rid of them. I took Clonodine(which lowers blood pressure) and it makes me so drowsy that I stopped that too.

The insomnia thing is killing me. Its non stop. What have you taken to help with that? Or are you a walking Zombie like I? I didn't sleep, but 2 hours yesterday and that is what drives me nuts. I don't mind the withdrawls in the day, but the insomnia is the worst. Its not easy what we are going through, but at least it gets better everyday.

I'm sure your wife and son is already noticing that you're getting back to normal. They will be so happy to have their dad and husband back. Just imagine, things won't tick you off as much. YOu could spend all joyous moments with them and relish in them. Feel the happiness that you didn't feel when you were on the Vikes. I mean, yeah the high isn't there, but you feel sober. NOt only that, I'm sure you have your sex drive back so make your wife happy!!! You are a lucky man to have such a great family!

I check on you later. Take care!

Over it.

rosietee 04-23-2004 01:11 PM

Re: My story-getting off hydro and sub..
Hey, over, I hope kinda sees your posts. He used to have the worst insomnia and he lives on the east coast, so I would keep him company from the west coast. It did pass, however, and he is now back at work! It did take a few months, but he would literally not sleep at all. After returning from a detox from opiates, he stopped taking any benzos or any sleeping aids at all and stuck it out and eventually regular sleep came back.

You, Banker and I are about the same age and all ADD'ers, woo hoo! I am actually down here behind the Orange curtain, if you will forgive me. Did my grad school up near you, though. I am on very sporadically today. OK, they are crying again for me, mah-mee . . . talk later . . .


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