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    Old 05-11-2004, 07:33 AM   #16
    mise ata ann
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Hello Grey

    Well - you are an insightful romantic intelligent man! Who would have thought a body builder would have a brain? ha ha hah a ha ha ha ha ha, soreeee soreeeeee sorrrrrrreeee
    Just couldnt resist.
    Grey - you do know me - you and I just disagree about benzos! But I love talking to you!
    You are dead honest - and I suspect that a lot of us in here have relapses - the very illness of addiction is defined as a relapsing condition! We live with this monkey on our backs forever.
    But seems to me like you are doing just fine - you are headed in the right direction? What more can you expect?
    Thanks for a terrific post.
    Mise

     
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    Old 05-11-2004, 07:55 AM   #17
    John 808
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Grey,

    What a great way to start my day! In fact, I was feeling pretty "blah" and confused as to what route I need to take (which has been going on for awhile now..) and I really appreciate hearing that what I have and am going through is not in vain- that my experiences and words have helped atleast one person! Thank you from the bottom of my heart!

    Regarding religion, I have always said, I would never push my faith on anyone but would be glad to share how it has helped me through some very rough times and I see that you know that! I would never want to offend anyone but then I would also not want to miss out on a chance to "share" my great faith in God....so, IF you ever want to talk religion...give me a holler!!!

    Good to hear from you- I don't get on the boards much anymore! I'll try to more often (feel a bit like a hypocrite)!

    Take care and continued success,
    Michelle

     
    Old 05-17-2004, 10:33 PM   #18
    doggreensector
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    I think that grey got it right that everyone thinks that their drug of choice is the worst. The wd's from opiates are nothing compared to benzos. Although from what I have read that the wd's from benzos can be more dangerous.

    I think if you look hard and long enough you will find some person out there swearing up and down that this drug or that drug is the hardest to get off of and has the worst withdrawals. I have heard this about cigarettes. I have heard that people who are addicted to alcohol and get the dt's have it the worst with the hallucinations and delusions.

    Why the need to prove "my drug is worst then yours?" I think they all suck.

    Keith

     
    Old 05-18-2004, 10:13 AM   #19
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doggreensector
    I think that grey got it right that everyone thinks that their drug of choice is the worst. The wd's from opiates are nothing compared to benzos. Although from what I have read that the wd's from benzos can be more dangerous.

    I think if you look hard and long enough you will find some person out there swearing up and down that this drug or that drug is the hardest to get off of and has the worst withdrawals. I have heard this about cigarettes. I have heard that people who are addicted to alcohol and get the dt's have it the worst with the hallucinations and delusions.

    Why the need to prove "my drug is worst then yours?" I think they all suck.

    Keith
    Yes, benzos can be more dangerous with seizures and psychosis possible from larger dose cuts. Benzos also have something very unique called Benzodiazepine Protracted Withdrawal Syndrome, which happens to a percentage of people. It can last for years. Not many other drugs have that added woe.

    But all withdrawals are hard from most drugs. What really sucks is when someone becomes an accidental addict through taking what is prescribed and then they are told it is them, not the drug by their doctor. I mean, at least when someone abuses a drug they know what they are in for, and they know they must change their behavior. Not the same for the accidental one, who follows their doctor's advice and when they develop tolerance/tolerance withdrawals, their doctor says it's not being caused by the drug. This is one of the most insulting things that can happen to someone who doesn't abuse drugs or alcohol, and only trusted their doctor on their supposed condition. No wonder most of us are bitter and angry!

    And I agree, all drugs suck! When are people going to get that?

     
    Old 05-19-2004, 06:19 AM   #20
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    My good friend's 19-year-old son died from an overdose of methadone and klonopin on saturday. What a waste.

     
    Old 05-19-2004, 10:57 AM   #21
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Windysan, I am so sorry to hear that. Thank you for the reminder, though, of what our options are if we choose to use drugs--none of them are good and so many lives are affected. You and your friend must be devastated and I will pray for you. Let us know how you are doing.

    luv,
    rosie

     
    Old 05-19-2004, 11:09 AM   #22
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by windysan
    My good friend's 19-year-old son died from an overdose of methadone and klonopin on saturday. What a waste.
    God, that's horrible. Very sorry.

    Last edited by Jennita; 05-19-2004 at 11:10 AM.

     
    Old 05-20-2004, 02:40 AM   #23
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by windysan
    My good friend's 19-year-old son died from an overdose of methadone and klonopin on saturday. What a waste.
    oh my gosh i am so sorry that is aweful my thoughts and prayers are with your friend and you luv kelleigh

    Last edited by no patience; 05-20-2004 at 02:40 AM.

     
    Old 05-21-2004, 09:48 AM   #24
    mouse62
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    I am on my first day completely Xanax free and am wondering what I can look for in terms of withdrawals. For the past month I've been taking just a crumb of a pill every morning, definitely less than a quarter of a .5, so I'll guess a .1.

    On another note, I see disagreements about withdrawals and severity. When I was in a treatment center 10 years ago, someone who was addicted to crack/cocaine said that he was tired of how all of the heroin/methadone addicts would whine and complain for the first few days of withdrawal, because HE didn't whine and complain. He had never done opiates. I have done BOTH so I know the difference -- with coke, you don't really get a physical withdrawal, you just might feel terrible for psychological reasons. This man could not grasp the concept that when someone is opiate dependent and the drug is taken away, the body goes into a true flu-like sickness that can be very severe and take 3-4 days before it lightens up. He kept saying, so what, you get sick when you quit coke, too. I just gave up!

     
    Old 05-21-2004, 11:25 AM   #25
    Jennita
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mouse62
    I am on my first day completely Xanax free and am wondering what I can look for in terms of withdrawals. For the past month I've been taking just a crumb of a pill every morning, definitely less than a quarter of a .5, so I'll guess a .1.

    On another note, I see disagreements about withdrawals and severity. When I was in a treatment center 10 years ago, someone who was addicted to crack/cocaine said that he was tired of how all of the heroin/methadone addicts would whine and complain for the first few days of withdrawal, because HE didn't whine and complain. He had never done opiates. I have done BOTH so I know the difference -- with coke, you don't really get a physical withdrawal, you just might feel terrible for psychological reasons. This man could not grasp the concept that when someone is opiate dependent and the drug is taken away, the body goes into a true flu-like sickness that can be very severe and take 3-4 days before it lightens up. He kept saying, so what, you get sick when you quit coke, too. I just gave up!
    I read that Stevie Nicks once said, in terms of withdrawal, that cocaine withdrawal was a cake-walk compared to Klonopin(another benzo like Xanax), so that guy really has no idea what he was talking about like you said!

    Benzo withdrawals can be one of the worse withdrawal syndromes but since there are different factors one can not know for sure how severe. Benzo Protracted Withdrawal Syndrome is one of the longest known, lasting for several years although the severity of it gets weaker and weaker during that time.

    The good news is, most people who taper down to very small amounts and stay there like you did for awhile usually don't have such a tough time. Such a precise taper does not guarentee no withdrawals or minor withdrawals, but odds are you will probably not have a really hard time. I think you were wise to do what you did.

    But any "symptoms" you have even months down the line could be withdrawal-related. It's like the brain heals from the benzo use unevenly, so things may stir up just when you think it's ok.....like being on a rollercoaster. You can be just fine then have a day of distress out of the blue.

    So many docs assume a new or returning "condition" is to blame for such an event. They feel once the drug is gone out of the body(aka technical definition of "withdrawal") then there should be no problems. They only look at the drugs' exit from the body, not the fact that the brain needs some time to recover normal function without the drug.

    Don't worry too much, sounds like you did a good taper off. You may have only slight withdrawals or none at all. You might have something pop up suddenly and leave. Your odds are very good.

     
    Old 05-21-2004, 11:59 AM   #26
    windysan
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Just to make things confusing I'll comment. I was on massive doses of benzos, did 4 days in a psych unit, went to treatment, and was in good shape 3 weeks later. During those 3 weeks I was recovering from the Lithium and Zyprexa they gave me in the nuthouse. I had no bad symptoms....some night sweats and that is about it. From what I understand.....dope addicts(those who've been through the ringer with other dope) have an easier time with benzo withdrawal problems. For me opiates were much, much worse....hell in fact. In comparison benzos were pretty easy. But hey, everybody's different when it comes to withdrawal. Just be glad you are a veteran dope fiend.......never thought you'd hear that, eh?

    good luck

     
    Old 05-21-2004, 08:09 PM   #27
    Jennita
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by windysan
    Just to make things confusing I'll comment. I was on massive doses of benzos, did 4 days in a psych unit, went to treatment, and was in good shape 3 weeks later. During those 3 weeks I was recovering from the Lithium and Zyprexa they gave me in the nuthouse. I had no bad symptoms....some night sweats and that is about it. From what I understand.....dope addicts(those who've been through the ringer with other dope) have an easier time with benzo withdrawal problems. For me opiates were much, much worse....hell in fact. In comparison benzos were pretty easy. But hey, everybody's different when it comes to withdrawal. Just be glad you are a veteran dope fiend.......never thought you'd hear that, eh?

    good luck
    This could be true, what you said about addicts having easier time withdrawing the benzos. I had a horrible time getting off benzos and had the lovely protracted version. I don't drink, smoke, and have never had the experience of even one pot smoke much less do drugs. Yeh, I know, I'm boring- boring -boring.

     
    Old 05-21-2004, 08:18 PM   #28
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Mouse,

    A tiny crumb for a month? .1 mg of Xanax? How did you feel during that month? What symptoms did you experience? I am curious.

     
    Old 05-21-2004, 08:42 PM   #29
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by doggreensector
    I think that grey got it right that everyone thinks that their drug of choice is the worst. The wd's from opiates are nothing compared to benzos. Although from what I have read that the wd's from benzos can be more dangerous.

    I think if you look hard and long enough you will find some person out there swearing up and down that this drug or that drug is the hardest to get off of and has the worst withdrawals. I have heard this about cigarettes. I have heard that people who are addicted to alcohol and get the dt's have it the worst with the hallucinations and delusions.

    Why the need to prove "my drug is worst then yours?" I think they all suck.

    Keith
    "A drug is a drug is a drug." Rehab, lingo, accept all comers with insurance. I`ll challenge that thesis. What people claim is not relevent, what is true is the concern. Yea, an alcoholic may go through hell for 5 days, herion junkie about a week, cocaine, a few days. Benzo addicts, typically around 3 months according to a broad study of 300 patients. And the symptoms wax and wane, come and go, which is particularly annoying. We cannot go to detox and be eating like horses and playing volleyball after 5 days. Not only that, we wasted our money. And this is the tragedy, ignorant doctors put people coming off of street drugs on benzos! As was noted, Stevie Knicks was put on Klonopin to ease her cocaine withdrawal. They kept prescribing, she got hooked. As to withdrawals, cocaine in comparsion was a kitten. She will tell you. And is why I am here, to warn about the benzos that are so quickly prescribed and touted as safe.

    Last edited by howard678; 05-21-2004 at 09:06 PM.

     
    Old 05-22-2004, 02:28 AM   #30
    mise ata ann
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    Re: Murphy and anyone interested abut benzos

    Yep.......... agreeing 100% with Howard. People put on benzos by thier doctors have not made a choice "to use". They have been prescribed these drugs as "treatment" and take them according to the prescribed instructions. Time and time again in here I see people saying - "it's OK - I have never 'abused' my xanax - the doctor says I need it - so I will not get addicted".............. that's the whole point! You become addicted - not by abusing - but by following doctor's instructions.
    Howard is right too about the withdrawal - no detox for benzos - its a long slow taper. Howard is optimistic too about 3 months for withdrawal - yep - some do make it in that time - but short term users perhaps. Anyone who has been prescribed any benzo over a number of years will most likely have to face up to a much longer taper. I was lucky - mine took 8 months. Many take way beyond a year. It is an exceedingly difficult taper too.
    Like Howard - I am just warning you - your doctors (for the most part) will prescribe them for you without knowing of the dangers and just how many of you were warned about the addiction and long slow withdrawal before you agreed to take the pills? The medical profession (particularly in the US) is profoundly ignorant about the benzos.
    Dont say you havent been warned!
    Mise

     
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