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dschne 05-10-2004 05:01 PM

Now getting off the Suboxone
Wanted to find out now that it has been 11 days off the hydro and on the sub taking 8mg 3 times a day right now. I am going to the the Doc tomorrow morning Im prety sure he is going to cut my dose down but just wondering how long dose this process take and i feel fine taking less 2 to 2.5 pills per day I tried it just to see and it worked fine. I guess Im scared becouse im feeling so normal now and hope to feel this way after just wondering how long the taper is and how bad you really will feel. I really am scared today dont know why maybe from reading others posts.Also will have to work on the the nenzos after the sub thing so guess still have some road work ahead?
thanks again and I hope everybody is doing good today. :confused:

Banker 05-10-2004 08:15 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
When are you going to be completely off of it? You haven't really been on the Sub long enough to have severe wds from it if you stopped right now. If you stopped immediately, you would probably feel a little yucky from the hydro withdrawal still occuring but I'm positive it's nothing you could not handle. If you do not plan on staying on Suboxone for AT LEAST 6 months, I would not recommend it for longer than 14 days. It's some tough stuff to get off of and you at minimum need to benefit from being able to 'feel' during this time and learn how to live your life without searching for hydros, searching for the high, etc. Sub, I believe helps a lot with that. This is just my opinion, I'm on it and it has saved my life. I've had some side effects but overall, it has really, really helped me.

dschne 05-11-2004 05:41 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
I was hoping you would be around Banker are you doing ok? I sure hope so you are one of the people who helped me get off the hydro to begin with.Anyways I saw my Doc today and he said lets do 3 tablets a day for the next 2 weeks and if I feel ok go ahead and do my own taper poss 2 2.5 a day I feel so normal and great today.It is my anniversary today so I hand delivered some beautiful roses to my wife in the pooring down rain at her work to her well this was on my way to work the weather got so bad ripped the umbrella from my hand and i got soaked head to toe but still got the flowers to her now what to do have to get to work ? well drove like a crazy man stopped at dillards got some clothes chnged and went to work.but you know what It never even bothered me infact still in a good mood.As of tomorrow night quiting the ambien but still will be taking xanax at night at least for another couple weeks.again thanks for your love help and support and hope you are doing ok.see ya/ll

John 808 05-11-2004 09:11 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
Hi Dan!

If you have been on the sub for a couple of weeks now and are dropping the dose for another couple of weeks and so on, that is long enough to experience pretty bad withdrawals. NOT TRYING TO SCARE YOU- so glad you are feeling normal and I am so proud for you, but, I was on the sub for about six weeks (the first go round) and when I stopped it was ROUGH!

I have an appointment with an addictionologist who is a former addict the end of this month and he said by all means to get off the sub and stay off. It was far more powerful a drug than doctors much less patients know about and the devil to come off of. He is planning on tapering me with Ultram, ofcourse, under close supervision.

The sub is somewhat like a double-edged sword. It is saving people's lives from overdosing or winding up in jail or whatever right now but then down the road how difficult it will be to come off of.

I think the best route is to do a quick 7-10 day taper with the sub or use if for lifetime maintenance at a very low dose. Just my opinion. There are too many people on this board that I consider friends that are living life again because of the sub but yet the "cloud" of coming off of it looms overhead. A little discouraging I am sure!

Best of luck to you! Hang in there and God bless.

Banker 05-12-2004 11:16 AM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
I agree w/Michelle, somewhat. I've heard that if you take Sub for longer than around 17 days, then you will become physically dependant and have wds... however, one would have to think that even a few more weeks would not be debilitating from the wds. Since you feel so normal (and I know exactly how you feel)... have you considered taking it for a longer period of time, so that you can learn to live your life without being a true drug addict? What are your options from your doctor? Some days I want to get off, the majority of the other days I've been fine and am fine staying on it. I know you realize now how much it helps.... to say the least. Just let me know what options you have and I'm extremely proud of you for taking this step to save your life.

I recently went through a major depressive episode caused by many external factors in my life... I started a new med on last Fri and have improved a lot. Hopefully, I can get through my next 'hormonal episode' o.k. and then we will know that this drug will work for me.

Tell me again how many you were taking and for how long? Did anyone else know or do they now? Are you in counseling and/or aa/na?

I don't think you realize how good it makes me feel to know that I played a role in you getting off of hydros. Seriously, thank you for telling me that. It means so much. I will be praying for you. It's difficult for me to tell you to get off of it, taper off of it, etc. when I know how much it helps people. I would tell you to stay on it as long as you could (until you felt better about handling the 'real world' and then start working on 'the plan'). However, the adamant AA/NA people would shoot me if they could for me saying that. All I know is that this drug has saved many peoples' lives and continues to do so. Everyone has their own way... I do realize that when I get off of Suboxone, my only hope for complete sobriety will be AA/NA meetings. I recognize this. I definitely recognize that I do not have control over my addiction and right now, I'm using Suboxone to assist with this. Now, on the benzos... how many are you taking now and do you want to/have to get off of them completely? Are you also taking an antidepressant? Anyway, let me know how you are doing and congrats on making steps to GET CLEAN! That is awesome. It's pretty cool to be able to feel again. It amazed me when I felt love again. It was nice. However, we all still feel the bad stuff too but that's o.k.... we can get through it. Take care of yourself!

tryinmybest 05-12-2004 01:38 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
I was in a similar situation as you. Was on sub for six or seven months. I was on 4mg's. Prior to sub was taking 150-200 mg's hydro daily. Went to 1mg for a month. Not real hard at all. Went from 1 to 1/2 of mg and that wasn't easy at all. Got frustrated and said to hell with it and just quit. It seemed as though I was in constant withdrawal when I went from 1/2 pill to 1/4. Well, it's been about 11 days. Feeling OK. At dose of 1/4 pill it didn't really hold me all day. I'm feeling OK now. Flu symptoms but still able to work. Longer than hydro but not as severe. If you have questions or need more specific info, just ask.


WhiteDevils 05-13-2004 04:10 AM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone

So do you ache all over? Do you get sleep every night? I have only been on it for 2 1/2 weeks now, should I go ahead and get off now? I can afford 1 more script of 30 and thought about weaning down myself. I have 2 scripts (doc going on vacation next month) but don't know about affording the next one. Should I just try and get off of this sub now? Do you get the crappy feeling? I think we all should make daily notes, hour & minute notes of how we feel when coming off sub. And details on what other med's we are taking while coming off sub. Write back as many are curious for details on getting off sub I know! Good luck to you, I hope you are doing ok?

tryinmybest 05-13-2004 05:10 AM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
Please don't let my ache all over scare you. It's really not that bad. I do sleep OK. Not all night but I am able to sleep. Again, I was on a pretty low dose. Sub worked very well for me. It allowed me to stop hydros and temper the insanity that was about to take over my life. Here are my recommendations. Move to a lower dose. This is really not hard at all. I don't know your dose or what you were taking but going from 4 mg to 2 was easy. 2 to 1 not bad. Below 1 more difficult. Then, spread your doses out. Go from every 24 hrs and add an hour or so between doses. I found that on 1 mg I would start getting sick at about 27 or 28 hrs. If you go 30 hrs that was as bad as it got for me. What happened was I just got tired of being in and out of withdrawal and one day let 30 hrs become 12 days. Before I got off I experimented with higher doses than 4 mg. There was really not much difference between 4 and 8 mg. What dose are you on? Please feel free to ask any questions. If my experience can help I'll be glad to share.


dschne 05-15-2004 05:21 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
Hey folks just back from my days off so didnt read until today and want to thank you for your feedbeck and support this thursday the 20th will be 3 weeks off the hydro and on the SUB I have been taking 8mg 3 times daily,I am tapering myself and have find so far I feel fine just taking 2 or 2.5 but am defenently going to taper this faster than the Doc is doing me Who also by the way is a recovering doctor 16yrs sobriety in AA so I made hime the deal from the start we would see if I was just addicted to the hydro or am a addict and need some n/a help then so we will see.But I really think being a gym person 5 days a week really helps with your mind and body becouse of the sweating and what it does to the endorphines in your brain.
Now as far as the BENZOS are concerned i take xanax and ambien at night only.I will be stopping the ambien this week script runs out and am not refilling it.And the Xanax plan is to wrk on that after I have finished the SUB taper and whatever W/D,S i have to go through.Another thing is all the vitamins and real good diet and tons,tons,tons of water Im talking about gallons drinking everyday is very helpful.Well Banker I am so Glad to hear you are feeling better keep it up you inspired me a 265lb linebacker kind of guy.I will talk to ya/ll monday Going to the Astros game tomorrow to watch ROGER CLEMENS PITCH so hope everybody is doing fine and I PRAY FOR ALL OF YOU EVERYDAY.

John 808 05-15-2004 08:53 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
Glad to hear you are doing okay! Great advice on vitamins, water, and EXERCISE! I have been walking, but my husband just added me to his gym, so, I will start working out soon, too! Hope I enjoy it!

So happy you are feeling better? What new med are you on? Wellbutrin? Seems like I remember you mentioning that. You are doing GREAT and have been such an inspiration to so many people on the board!
The good Lord owes you one and I think if and when you ever decide to come off the sub, you'll be just fine! :)
How is your Grandma? Haven't had a chance to go through all the posts in the last couple of days- been out of town.
Hang in there and again, so proud of you!

Congrats on so many days off the sub! Are you exercising or doing anything else to "stay busy" and keep your mind off things? That is my problem- not getting enough exercise (but you saw where I'll be hitting the gym ASAP) and being at home (stay-home-mom) all day and just THINKING about the pills- ya know? I am looking forward to summer because the children and I will stay at the pool and water-park and I am hoping that that will occupy my thoughts and the sun is good for those endorphins!
Anyway, good for you and thanks for your input!

God bless and ya'll take care,

Boxster 05-17-2004 05:44 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone

I am new to this board. I just got out of detox treatment for opiates .... was up to as many as 80 tabs 7.5 mg of vic a day (if available to me). Also, had a problem with the percs/oxycodone. I detoxed for 4 days and the subaxone (sp?) was only given to me for 3 days. I felt so great in there when I went on the suboxone that I asked the doc to leave the detox center on the 4th day and he even said I was probably ready to leave. Here I am 2 days later having massive stomach cramps, chills, hot sweats and complete weakness ..... weakness to the point that I had trouble coming to the computer to talk to you guys. Does anyone recommend anything as I usually have a strong tolerance level for pain but I'm starting to throw fits in with my constant crying spells (I know I know, a common side effect) and the anger is the least of my concerns; my poor wife has been so supportive of my addiction and recovery. I am so blessed to have her in my life.

I guess the reason I responded to this thread was mainly to tell you that if you're only taking 7 vics a day, things could be a lot worse..... and I thought I would encourage you with the amount that I was/am addicted to; I am not using right now but am having severe w/drawal symptoms at the moment and you'll learn more as you read on. There was no way I could get off the dosage I was on and I was headed for big trouble ..... luckily, I only lost my job throughout this but again, I could have lost family and my wife as bad as it was getting. She has been so supportive through this whole thing but I still feel so embarrassed about all of this that I LET IT GET TO THIS POINT. :o

Upon leaving, the Doc only prescribed a sleeping agent (trazodone I believe?), phenobarbital, vistaril (for the anxiety), parafon (muscle relaxer ... helps cramping) and .... well, I guess that's about it. Unfortunately, none of these are helping me with my w/d symptoms. Any recommendations are welcomed. I have a bottle of dilantin in the med cab as well as indomethacin (whatever that is) as I wanted to see if either of these would help w/ my w/d symptoms.... and also to find out if they are addictive. I have not taken any yet.

By the way, what are the "subs" you guys are all talking about? Are they for cravings and are they addictive? All I want is something that keeps the cravings 'in check' and that helps me with these withdrawal symptoms. Does anyone have a guess as to how long these w/d symptoms are going to continue? And, am I a good candidate for these subs?

God bless you all and thank you for any response(s). After these physical symptoms subside I will be doing a program mixed in with NA meetings.

Talk soon,


dschne 05-17-2004 05:58 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
Subs are the The suboxone you were on for only 3 days you said when I started them I was as 40+ lortabs 10 a day now been in the suboxone for 2 weeks and am taking half what the doc told me too and feel great I am weaning off them I want off everything . All I know is I also did a rapid detox in beverly hills I live in texas and that didnt last 6 days home and was back on the hydro but I dont think I was ready to quite yet.But this time I am dont want them and this Sub works at least for me and from what I can read hear you can either continue this way and it will end just keep remebering how much those pills stole from you or due the sub-way (THATS WHAT I CALL IT) or the worst life ending.Man I really feel for you right now and know how you feel I will say a prayer for you and I am hear for a while so if you need to talk will be glad to......Dan

John 808 05-17-2004 06:16 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
Hi MR,

The "sub" you are asking about is the suboxene they gave you in the hospital and the reason you felt great there was that suboxene is an opiate and binds to the same receptors in your brain that the hydros did. The reason you are feeling so bad now, is that the suboxene is more than likely out of your system now and you are experiencing withdrawals.

I was on the sub and the withdrawals from it was worse (to me) than withdrawals from the hydros or should I say they are not quite as intense but last much longer and are harder to "overcome." Especially if you "have alot on your plate" as I did/do.

The sub (suboxene/subutex) is a long-lasting opiate (usually stays in your system about 36 hrs) and is used as it was with you- for a short term detox type setting or for a long period, if not lifetime, maintenance. If one is on it longer than two weeks, he or she will experience withdrawals when coming off of it- they are plenty of people on this board who can vouche for that, so, you have to decide if you can stop the abuse without the aide of this drug or if you feel like you can not stop abusing these drugs, the sub may be an answer for you. But, if that was the case, I would plan on using it for a good while. Using it for just a few weeks and trying to come off (as I did) was AWFUL!!! If I had it to do over, I would have never used it or planned to use it a long period of time so that I could "get myself adjusted."

I am not sure what drugs you are speaking of that you have in your med cabinet, but, if you want to taper or cold-turkey, get your hands on some of the following non-prescription drugs:

- Immodium for tummy problems
- Benedryl for runny nose and water eyes and may help with sleep
- Advil or Tylenol for leg pain, muscle aches
- L-Tyrosine for energy (a vitamin/mineral)

And if possible, get your hands on ONE WEEKS WORTH ONLY of the following prescription drugs:

- Valium or Xanax for shakes, skin crawling, etc, and may help with sleep
- Bentyl for tummy problems and cramps
- Some type of muscle relaxant (Soma, Skelaxin, etc)

Drink plenty of water/gatorade and take lots of hot baths in epson salt and PLEASE try to exercise as much as you can!

I would definately try this route (one more time) before getting on the sub, because the sub is an opiate and you will one day (maybe) have to come off of it. Granted, it has saved lives of certain people on this board and if you just can't stay clean, well, then look into it.

Good luck and God bless,

spark-o-cet 05-17-2004 06:57 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
box dude the only thing that will help you is time so save your money the other stuff doesnt do much at will not feel better at all until about two weeks of coplete clean time is logged by you.80hydros a day is way to much apap need to get the ole liver checked out asap and i wish yu luck my friend-spark

John 808 05-17-2004 07:35 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone

How goes it with you???? Fill me in your situation- hope it is prettier than mine! LOL! I can laugh because I have an appointment with an addictionologist next week- so- a little light there at the end of the tunnel! And it helps to try to keep some sense of humor, huh?

Really, what is going on with you now?


miche :)

spark-o-cet 05-17-2004 08:14 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
chelle good to hear from ya.the computer has been screwed up off and on now for over two months and am gonna get another while under warranty.for the past two months i have been stayin clean mon-fri and usin sat and sun only.this has helped with the w/ds some but it has been rough.i am now goin on two weeks clean with no useing over the last weekend and i am startin to really feel good again.i cant get any pills at all cause im broke flat but this is a good thing.i hope that the dr will give you some hope and light at the end. if he has been addicted before then he will know what it is like and maybe help you.try not to go back on the sub if at all possible.i think it is just a scam between us addicts.hope all goes well and you can be clean and happy again.-spark

John 808 05-17-2004 08:48 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
Good to hear from you and CONGRATS on two weeks! Gosh, I can't wait to be able to say that! You stay strong, now, Spark! K?

I'll try to flag you down next week and tell you what this doctor said. Let me tell you this real quick, when I spilled the whole sordid tale to him, his first response was, "Don't take another sub..." I asked him why and he said it was not "proven" yet and an extremely powerful drug. He said he has never prescribed it and never will! Strange, huh? I asked him how messed up my brain probably was and he said there was probably some damage but not enough to worry about if I get straight now and stay that way! I have to do this- I am going to end up dead taking 30 pills a day (my intake these last few days) but I am out now. Thank goodness- I pray that he can give me some guidance and I can put an end to this nasty cycle.

Well, don't be a stranger, k? Hugs,

sleeplessinpgh 05-21-2004 10:23 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone
Hi and help, not sure if we are doing this right or not. But my spouse and myself have been addicted to oxycontin for four years we got on subs may 2003 stayed clean from the ox until aug 03, made a bad move and got back on them until last week, we have now gone 10 days without the ox, we had been mixing the subs with the ox all this time, now want off of subs too. We were taking 2 mgs daily recently just cut back to 1 for 3 days and 1/2 for 3, but neither of us can sleep, have severe muscle pain and tremendous anxiety and we cannot get anymore subs, because the doctor wont give us anymore, she said there is no detox from the subs, so who is crazy her or us? What should we do only have 2 more subs? How long with this last? Does anyone know or have experienced this. In recapping we have 4 years addicted to oxys approximately 240 mg per day, then subs without oxys for 3 months 8 mgs a day, then mixing 80 mgs of oxys for a couple days and then 2 mgs subs on the off days, done to 1 subs for 3 days and 1/2 sub for 3 days. Someone help us!

tryinmybest 05-22-2004 05:45 AM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone

Pgh was home for me for a long time. Anyway, my suggestion would be to get a few more suboxone tabs. If you are taking 1 mg and it is getting you through the day here is what will help. Start taking 1/4 of a 2 mg tab. You got to stay completly away from oxys. Go as long as you can. Preferrably 30-36 hrs. Then take another 1/4. After 4 or 5 days doing this start taking even smaller peices of sub. I got off sub after 6 months and at the end was taking crumbs, maybe 1/8 to 1/10th tabs. Wait each day until you feel withdrawal symptoms. After a week or so you gotta go to zero. Will you be sick? yea, there is no way around it. Because of the taper the symptoms will be slight. The trick to this is space you sub as far a part as possible. Ideally you could go 36 hrs, then 40 and so on. You'll make it. I did the same and am over two weeks clean. Good luck.


Murphy555 05-23-2004 01:00 PM

Re: Now getting off the Suboxone

I was recenly hospitalized to get off of suboxone (which I had been taking for 6 months, 10mg) and a binge on valiums for about a month, which was I admit a huge mistake. Altho, I have never abused my useage of klonopin.

I don't know what my symptoms are a result of, but I'm still shaky from the inside out after a month and have reached the point of "I can't stand it anymore". So, I'm fearing I'm going to relapse,altho I'm taking it day to day.

So whether the symptoms I'm having are from abrupt suboxone withdrawal (they basically have the same protocol as when you withdraw from any opiates, the clonidine patch, etc.) I only was in the hospital for 3 days; then discharged and then to intensive outpatient which didn't leave me time for anything else really.

Now I'm on my own and the counselor asked me what do I want? I sincerely want to get back on the suboxone for awhile, and still continue to take 1 mg of klonopin as I have, for years. No mistakes this time.

I too was put on klonopin at a time many years ago and it really helped me alot, so my doc just kept me on it all these years and does not think I should stop. After all the bad press that benzos are getting now, I wish way back then I had never agreed to get on it; altho at the time, I was quite dysfunctional.

I personally am having a hard time.


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