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fisherpard 08-25-2004 04:41 PM

[B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
[B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]

Hey all my good friends,

If you have read my last few post's you know I am real close to relapse. I don't know if there will be a day 8. Carley , you might be a good one for this advice.

I still have a full bottle of Ritalin 20XR that I quit using over 4 months ago. I used it for two years and went C/T when I started the Sub and never had a minutes trouble.

Would you try a few Ritalin to see if it gives you the energy to make it say 21 days off the Sub? Then C/T the Ritalin. I am not thinking very clear right now but it looks like to me it would be worth a shot over going right back on the sub. It may give my recepters time enough to get over the opiates. I am hanging my own shingle on the wall and pretending to be a Doctor. But I am desperate.

Everyone please respond as honest as you can. I really need ideas right now because I am slipping fast.

my good friends,

windysan 08-25-2004 05:09 PM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
At day 8 you are almost there. Don't cave in. Go do some exercise if you can handle it. It'll make you sleep better. At this point it would be such a drag for you to go back.

carly500 08-25-2004 07:34 PM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Hi again Fisherman I am not sure what to advise you because I abuse the ritalin way may then you did but I will try to give you a couple of ideas. I was thinking a taper of sub would be the best but maybe you dont want to consider because you have done wihhout it and you feel like that you would be starting over. Another idea I have is ask the doctor for some progavil. This is supposed to be non addicting. When I ran out of ritalin and adderall it helped me so much. It feels like a major energy drink. I was able to do all my normal activities. Now if you are going with the ritalin then please dont chew them I would also think you would get longer relief if you dont chew them You probably had no intention of chewing them anyway. Only use them for a short time so you dont get hooked. Just because you were able to give them easily the first time doesnt mean next time will be easy. Early in my ritalin use I was able to just stop taking them and felt great, that is not the case today. I will be on the computer a lot until next weds when I go away for a few days so I am here if you need me even if its just to vent. sincerely Carly

Banker 08-26-2004 04:54 AM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Fisherman --- The girl I was telling you about that had to cold turkey from Sub.... her doc gave her a stimulant (it was odd... not a real one but a new drug they give to people w/narcolepsy)... Anyway,..... I hate to tell you this because everyone says NOT to replace one addiction for the other... but if you are SURE you can stop the ritalin before you get physically addicted (??? how long is that 2 - 3 weeks?) then I would do it. Only because I know about the sleepiness that comes along with getting off of Sub. If you take ANY Sub... you will be back to day one. Pls don't do that.

Fisherman, I'm proud of you - you are doing great and I'm so sorry that you are in this situation. Can I ask you... why did you get off of Sub anyway? How long were you on it and did you have any bad side effects? Do you mind telling me now, other than being extremely sleepy... what else is going on? Depression???? Is it just like hydro withdrawal or anything like that? Does each day seem to be getting worse of the same or slightly better? I'm sorry for all of the questions and if you don't feel like responding, it's o.k. But do at least respond and let us know briefly how you are.

Do you think you can control the ritalin if you take it? How addicted to it were you prior to Sub, or were you?

Please take care of yourself... are you having to work or anything? Do you have a significant other and/or family that can help you right now? Are you involved in any 12 step program or anything? I would STRONGLY encourage that... I know I will have to when I stop because my body will be dying for an opiate... Pls don't give in, you've made it so far!!!

Banker 08-26-2004 04:59 AM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]

I just read your conversation w/Over (I had completely forgotten about him doing this) but he gave you GREAT advice and it appears you are just hours away from feeling so much better. I'm VERY happy for you!!! The clonodine will help you so much... you'll be tired, but it WILL help.

So, I'm sorry for quizzing you earlier. But I would like to know how your night was and how you are doing today?

carly500 08-26-2004 05:32 AM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Hi again Fisherman I just wanted to tell you that the drug Banker is talking about is the prodivigil that I mentioned. You could even use this along with the ritilian then stop the ritilian and continue with the prodivigil a little longer. I hope you feel better today. You have a lot of us cheering for you. Yeah think of us as cheerleaders. That thought should cheer you up a tiny bit. Seriously drop us a line about how you are doing when you feel up to it ok. Carly

fisherpard 08-26-2004 06:44 AM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Good morning all,

Well it is the beginning of day 8. I did not cave or relapse or take any ritalin. I only did the clonidine patch. Thanks Carly you can be my cheerleader anyday. By the way I have tried the provigel and since it did not give me the high , I just told the Doctor I did not want it. You know the drill.

Over has shead some great insight on the Sub issue. It has given me someones same ordeal as what I am going through. I am not sure if Over is male or female. I will just say she. She described day 7 in the words that my soul could only say. Thank you Over for all your help.


I will try to remember your questions. The only side effect I had on the Sub was constipation. No weight gain at all, probably a loss. I have gained 10 lbs in the 8 days off the Sub. I started it on June 2. Stayed on 8mg twice a day until I started my wean sometimes late July. I was the one to choose to come off of it but my Doctor had no reserves for me coming off. I just felt so guilty. Like I was a criminal or something. I really know it is nothing wrong taking it , it was just me. Maybe cause it is so regulated. I was so paraniod that I private paid for everything and refused to give my SS # because I did not want it on my insurance record. I will go back and re-read your post later to see what questions I missed.

Day 8 seems just as bad as 7. I yet to tell you if is worse. I pray it is not because I can't stand anymore. Banker, I am so scared because in your line of work you know what next week is. End of the Month. I will be under the gun because the Month has to be closed at work and all Finanials in to the CEO. I won't have the liberty to sneak out early because of the pain.

love you all,

carly500 08-26-2004 11:47 AM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Hey Fisherman I read that you had a bad morning so I wanted to see how your afternoon was going. You know I have adderall right now so I am trying not to run out so I dont have to touch the ritilian this month but it would even be an improvment just to have enough adderall to mix with the ritilian. The combination dosent depress me like the ritilian does. What are your thoughts on this? again only answer if you are up to it and dont forget to tell me about you.

fisherpard 08-26-2004 12:39 PM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Hey Carley,

Please try and not mix the ritalin and adderall. Stick to one or the other. You know ritalin has a high tendency to make your Blood Pressure soar. I am afraid adderal has this same tendency but not as great. You could really do your body some real harm doing both at the same time. Like I am one to stand on the soapbox.LOL I have done so much damage to my body that I will never regain my old health again. And just imagine I was a super health nut 5 years ago. Runner, weight lifter and played all sports, and now I can barely get off the couch. I really am struggling and don't know if I will survive the rest of the day. If you trully have ADD I think the adderal is the best way to go and leave the Ritilan alone. It has way too much tendency for abuse. I have read that Ritalin has been the downfall of so many Pharmisist. They get hooked on it and just can't stop until they are caught. I stayed on it for over 2 years and have not had one since the first of June. I would be lying to you if I told you I did not want one right now. I even have a full bottle of 90 20's. I have not broke yet...............just hanging on by a thread.

your friend,

Best Friend 08-26-2004 12:56 PM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
QUOTE<< I really know it is nothing wrong taking it , it was just me. Maybe cause it is so regulated. I was so paraniod that I private paid for everything and refused to give my SS # because I did not want it on my insurance record. >>UNQUOTE

Hi, fisherman! Congratulations on Day 8! My good wishes are with you 24/7, and I'm so happy you've stayed on the Board. Do you - or anyone here - know if having Sub on one's insurance record will forever "red flag" you for ever getting insurance again? I'm worried that if I go on Sub and if I, afterwards, need to change insurance companies, I'll be denied. Any suggestions??? (Maybe I should start a new thread on this?)

fisherpard 08-26-2004 01:16 PM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]

You bring up a excellent point. I really don't know. I think if you worked for a major corp it would probably not red flag you. We have people go to treatment centers all the time. There are so many ways being a addict affects your life.

I had to to do mine private because it could have mean't my job. I also have hobbies that if you have ever been treated for addiction, you can't play the game. I really wanted to go to a treatment center for a month but I knew it would cost me my job.

I really think this would be a interesting thread. I have spent a couple of thousand dollars private paying. If I fail I have just thrown that money away.

having a tough day,

123.Stella 08-26-2004 01:39 PM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Dear Fishermen:

You asked to hear from someone who had successfully gotten off suboxone, so here I am. I have read these boards for years, but you pulled me out of the back ground. Sorry in advance for the length of this post; I teach English at the University level so I cannot resist my love of words.

I started on the opiates by popping a few Vicoden or Lortabs here and there. A few quickly became many. Evening and weekends quickly became all day every day. It wasn’t too long before the hydros just weren’t cutting it anymore and I needed something much more potent to get me high. And then I found oxycontin. By the time I entered treatment, I was snorting at the minimum 400-480 mg of oxycontin each day and had been for years. I would “spice up” my cocktails whenever I could with morphine sulfates, dilaudid, methadone, heroin, and any other hard narcotic I could get my hands on. Talk about a love affair; talk about an emotional attachment! I loved opiates more than I loved my family, husband, children, and obviously myself. I could not and did not want to imagine a life where I wouldn’t be high all day every day. I truly believed I would die an addict and had just resigned myself to the fact that I would most likely die with a straw up my nose. My addiction cost me almost everything and completely brought me to my knees.

I was forced to enter treatment after yet another trip to the emergency room for an OD. In rehab, I was started on suboxone treatment. During the first week on suboxone, working within the clarity the suboxone allowed me for the first time in years, I saw the devastation that was my life. I saw in the clear light of day what my active addiction had cost me. And I decided with a resolve that could only have come from God, that I would give anything to be free of opiates. I wanted out of my prison more than I wanted anything, and I decided I would go to any lengths to get sober. I wouldn’t even listen to the idea of “lifetime maintenance.” I let them keep me on my maintenance dose for two weeks and then started my taper. It took 90 days to taper to one 2 mg tablet per day. And then I stopped.

Yes, the withdrawal sucked, as any withdrawal does. An opiate addict cannot stop taking opiates all together and not withdraw - it is inevitable. But I accepted this and braced myself for it. And the withdrawal from suboxone is a cake walk compared to the alternative withdrawal. Nevertheless, my legs ached, my back ached, my skin crawled, my legs jerked, insomnia, my head hurt, lethargy, heavy arms and legs, and after years of constipation, my digestive tract violently unloaded for weeks. And good God, the depression and anxiety! I felt pretty crappy for a little over two weeks after my last dose of suboxone.

But then I noticed a funny little thing - I started to feel better. Just a tiny little bit each day at first, barely noticeable, but still it was there. And then my healing gained momentum and after about 45 days I felt a lot like I remember feeling before I became an addict. I took ginseng, St. John’s Wort, Vitamin C, and a B-complex three times a day, with a fistful of other vitamins in the afternoon. I drank lots of clear fluids. I made myself take walks. I carried a heating pad wherever I went. I soaked in the bath every night. I used benadryl to help me sleep. I meditated and deep breathed to relieve some anxiety. I stayed away from all of the tempting pharmaceutical drugs that might have made me feel better. I gave and received hugs. And no matter how bad I felt, I made myself go to work each day.

Since I had no idea what it took to get clean, I did exactly what they told me to do without question - Intensive Outpatient Program, NA meetings, one-on-one therapy, and above all I didn’t pick up no matter what. It is called surrender and I did it completely. When the cravings got bad, I just focused on the gratitude I felt. I focused my thoughts on all of the other addicts still in the dark suffering, many of whom would die alone in that dark place. How grateful I was that that did not have to be my fate. How grateful to be out of the cage.

Today, I am opiate free, and every single withdrawal symptom was worth being able to say that. I am in prison no more, and I have control over my life. I live without shame and guilt and can look my children in the eye again. When I look back, I am confounded by the fact that I was a slave to a pill – what a strange circumstance. It is like walking out into the sunshine after being in the dark for many years. It is the hardest thing in the world, but the feeling I get when I remember that I beat this monster makes me feel incredibly powerful. I feel all of my emotions now, and while sometimes that can be tough, when I look into the eyes of my husband or children, it is the best thing in the world.

The whole point of this long drawn out story is that right now you are paying the piper. It is okay to pay your dues, they must be paid sooner or later. However, you are better and stronger than these pills. You are more powerful than you know. It is simple, do not use today. When tomorrow comes, tell yourself you will not use then either. Literally grit your teeth and just get through. Use the suggestions and tools your friends on this board have offered to you, just do not use. Listen to people who have overcome life threatening addictions and do what they do. Surrender. Keep reaching out to other addicts. Focus on the life that is so close to being in your grasp right this very minute. Believe me, it is a life you want and deserve. You can absolutely do this. You only have a little longer to go before it starts turning around, what a shame to throw that away. This is a critical time where your addiction could quickly switch on you, do not put anything in your body that has addictive properties. Remember that doctors are just people too, and ultimately you are the best person to decide what is best for you. Trust me, the cravings go away, the withdrawal depression and anxiety go away, the pain goes away and you are strong enough to wait this drug out.

If you squint your eyes and look closely, I am betting that you will be able to see that light in the distance. It is waiting for you. Good luck!

fisherpard 08-26-2004 02:16 PM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Thank you very much Stella,

I needed to hear that very much right now as you can probably remember what day 8 felt like. Maybe I am at my peak right now. I know if by day 14 you start feeling just a little better even if it is a tiny bit. That does offer some light at the end of the tunnel. I hope I have the strenght to make it . I am weak but still fighting. I know I am in the fight of my life. I only wish now that I had used the Sub for a couple of weeks and then started the taper instead of a couple of months. I knew and even discussed it with my wife that I might have created a worse monster than I already had. My opiate addiction was no where near yours so I would have probably weaned around Memorial Day. It is just that you don't see the world the way it really is underr the opiate high. I only saw what I had done to my life, family and friends after getting on the sub. So for this maybe it made me relize my mistakes. I too had surrendered my life to opiates and new I would die using them. I would justify that since I had real pain everyday that it was just the way it had to be. Thank you very much,

Best Friend 08-27-2004 09:27 AM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Fisherman, thanks so much for your response. Each and every day that I come on the Board, I look for your announcement: your first day of feeling just a wee bit better. Then, you'll be past the peak and on your way! I know it will be very, very soon, and we will all rejoice with you!

Stella, thanks for your amazing story. It's exactly the sort of tale that gives us all a spurt of inspiration and a glimpse into the 'bigger picture.' (And told with a succinct command of language! You've done your Univ. English teacher title proud! :D )

fisherpard 08-27-2004 10:53 AM

Re: [B]Fisherman's New Thread on Suboxone[/B]
Thanks TwinAlice,

It does help knowing friends are thinking of you no matter how hard there own battle is going. I am a little scared because Stella said it will be about 45 days till I can really tell a difference. It should not suprise me because I did not get in this mess overnight. I just shudder at the time. It seems like a lifetime right now. But as I think about it, the summer is nearly over and I really don't know where it went. That is the way these opiates interact in your life. They rob you of everything. Money is bad but the least concern. I went through enough money that I could have retired at age 50 if it had not been for this terrible addiction. But worst, I have been a awful husband, tried hard to be a good father but I probably flopped on that too. I have firends that don't call anymore because I woulds recluse so much and avoid their phone calls. All I could think about was my opiates, They became my life.
I do have real physical pain as many on this board and it all started so un-intential. Now I wonder what or how I will handle my physical pain. I guess Tylenol or the sort. Any thing is better than the emotional pain that you feel when you become a slave.

If I fail, I will be so heart broken. I only have this fight in me and if I lose I can see me go back to the world of the dark. You know the dark spot way back in your brain where you don't really care if anyone talks to you or not. When the high wears off you feel the guilt and shame but you just know if you can find that bottle everything will be alright. You all know the feeling when you shop a doctor and get that lucky one who will right you a script of 90 loratabs and even put several refills on them. That just makes me fill like a terrible person right now. How did I let my life get in such a mess?

I pray for the light at the end of the tunnel. Please pray for me right now because I am weak and it would just chrush me to fall off the wagon on day 9.

please forgive my ramblings,

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