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    Old 08-27-2004, 07:25 AM   #1
    fisherpard
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    Day 9 off Suboxone

    Just thought i would make a quick post that I am on day 9 and still clean. I can't say it is better even maybe a little worse. However, not as drastic as each other day has been. I am longing for the day I can say was just a little better, even if it is so minor. I know I am at a very dangerous place right now. The drug is constantaly on my mind. I am so scared I will crumble. All I can do is take it one day at a time.

    I can say this without a doubt, without all of you i could have never made it this far. All of you are the greatest.............

    best wishes
    Fisherman

     
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    Old 08-27-2004, 11:02 AM   #2
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Hi Fisherman!

    How are you doing today? Describe your wonderful world of Withdrawls for today. Great job that you're doing though! Making it to day 9 is a great achievement in itself. Are you detoxing from anything else besides the Sub? I ask because sometimes the WDs can be exacerbated by other drugs.

    I read the other poster who also did a slow taper from Sub and that's exactly what I had to do the 2nd time I detoxed as well. I dropped the dose every 4 days. My last days were chips and I mean literally, chips off the 2mg Sub tabs. You will still feel the WDs, but not as severe as jumping off 2mg straight away.

    Also be careful with the Klonopin. How long have you been on that? I heard that can be another nightmare in itself.

    What else have you done thus far? I just read that you are a runner. When I was detoxing, I kickboxed, boxed, lifted weights (that was hard considering I lifted pretty heavy for a chick) and ran. I had to so I can get my supply of endorphins constantly. You have to do it. TRUST me, you will feel better. Just try at least this weekend.

    You can do it. You're almost there! You should be feeling much better by Monday. Sorry I didn't get a chance to check on you yesterday, but was super busy and wasn't on the computer.

    Take care. Post if you need anything. Love from Cali

    Last edited by over; 08-27-2004 at 11:03 AM.

     
    Old 08-27-2004, 01:56 PM   #3
    fisherpard
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Over you have been super,

    I have battled all day with the emotional cravings. The physical w/d were helped by the clonidine patch. I am not sleeping well even after taking the Klonipin. I have been on a pretty high dose of Klonipin for a couple of years for Fibromayalgia. I have never tried to quit it but I have never craved it. I am sure I would go through physical w/d with it if I decide to quit but I don't have a emotional attachment with it. So maybe a real slow taper over about 6 months and I could maybe lick it. It does help me , I don't crave or abuse it so i think no more of it than a blood pressure pill. Zanex, Ativan and those all give me a buzz and I could easily develop a emotional tie to those. I feel nothing when I take even a 2mg klonipin. Some days I even forget to take it. Isn't this whole world of addiction amazing how different drugs affect each of us different ways. If I can whip this Sub addiction , I just bet it will motivate me to kick the klonipin also. I will never be drug free. Too many health problems. I take oral Diabetic meds. Strange thing there too. I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes at age 19 and have never been overweight. I was a health nut . Along with the ugly diabetes comes the High Blood pressure so I am stuck to meds for that. One big world of pills.

    I really needed your encouragement this afternoon. I am weak but I will see Day 10. The weekend is here and I can just cry my eyes out and not worry. I may even get the strenght to go see a movie tomorrow.

    thanks much, your and ace,
    fisherman

     
    Old 08-27-2004, 02:17 PM   #4
    Brenda1953
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Hey, congratulations!

    I know everyone is different but day 10 was a big day for me during my wd. That was the day I turned the corner. It was the first day I felt human.

    That may not happen for you tomorrow. Or it may. The point is, it will happen at some point and you will recognize it and feel great! You'll still have some wd symptoms but just knowing there's light at the end of the tunnel is so motivating.

    As for the klonopin, I know people who take therapeutic doses of benzos everyday. They don't abuse them and take more than prescribed. It gives them a quality of life they wouldn't ordinarily have. So I wouldn't beat myself up over that.

    Brenda

     
    Old 08-27-2004, 02:31 PM   #5
    fisherpard
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Brenda,

    Thank you for your encouagement. How long have you been off the Sub? Do you still have cravings?

    thanks much,
    fisherman

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 07:36 AM   #6
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Day 10...................guess what hits today ....tooth pain. I have not had any problems with my teeth in years. I have taken 2 advil and it has helped some. I bet I will have to get it removed in the near future. I would consider root canal but it is the very back tooth and the cheapest route. I guess I will have to just tough it out and resist the pain meds. Why do things like this come up when you are trying so hard? It's almost like you are destined to fail. I just have to hang on to that knot............I know there will be some sunshine soon.

    Thank all my hero's on this board for hanging with me through this trial,

    fisherman

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 08:31 AM   #7
    RebeccaW62
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    I am so worried about hearing the bad things this Suboxone withdrawal is causing people. I don't understand why a doctor will take you off of hydros only to suspend the withdrawals with Suboxone knowing the detox is far worse on Sub?

    Fisherman-Why are you quiting the Suboxone? Are you tapering or cold turkeying it? I am just wondering because I have been off of hydro's for 90 days now after a 10 year strong addiction (30 to 40 hydro 10's a day). I am on 8mb of Suboxone, 4 mg in the morning and 4 mg in the evening. My doctor said I may be on Suboxone forever on a daily maintenance dose. Is this bad? What is wrong with a maintenance dose of Sub, like some people take meds everyday for a lifetime, such as diabetic meds, heart meds, etc. I am truly wondering. I am not being a smart ***, I am concerned. I think Sub is the miracle drug because it has stopped the mental cravings from the hydro so much. I have only been on Suboxone for 90 days now so I am no expert. I need to hear people's experience on this "miracle" drug. I need to know what to prepare for. I think it is important for a patient to be fully aware of the drugs she takes.

    I find that some docs don't have a person's best interest in mind when she treats patients. Otherwise, why would some docs get people addicted to pain meds, benzo's, etc.? I know we take them, but I had a doc prescribe a 100 pain pills every three days for me for six months. After six months, she cut me off. She weined my off for about two weeks and then said, "No more." I never understood mental addiction. I knew physically I would get addicted, but I didn't know I would get mentally addicted. Hell, the doc knew I was good and addicted and commented about it on several occasions. One time she even said that she thought I was taking these pills more for mental pain due to a bad marriage than physical pain for which she was pescribing. She knew my ex and I personally as we were neighbors. She was aware of that as well as my family history of alcohol and drug abuse.

    When she quit prescribing, I thought my body would just adjust after a few days to not having them. Well, it did I guess, but my brain went crazy. I didn't know how to act without the hydros in my system. That is when I started doc shopping. Then I figured I could cut the doctors out of the picture by writing my own prescriptions. I knew how to write them from the many previous scrips I had received. I also learned how to call them into the pharmacy. I worked at the major hospital in town so I had all the doc's DEA numbers in a file so if a pharmacist asked, I could tell him/her. I only had three ask in a five month period. But if you do anything long enough, you will eventually get caught.

    This was the case for me. I had called in a prescription and went to pick it up. The DEA officer was there to pick me up instead. Actually, I was relieved when he flashed that badge at me because I thought, "Now I can finally stop." I hated doing this. I would shake like a leaf when I would pick them up wondering, is this when I am going to get busted? Then I would get them and say, "Wow that was easy." So I would do it over and over. But I had to. I took the whole bottle every day.

    After I got busted, I hired an attorney who saw I got a program here called "The Drug Diversion Program". Basically, you have to go to rehab and see a court referral officer once a month for a year.

    This didn't stop my criminal career though. After a few months, I figured what I had done wrong the last time I called them into the pharmacy and thought that I would be smarter this time. I started calling them in again. Pretty smart huh?

    I did get caught-again! I went on to do it a third time. I figured after the third time (3 strikes you are out) my luck would run out so I never did it again. That was 1999 and I haven't called or written a fake scrip since then.

    If you are interested, I can tell you what happend after the second and third times, but it is pretty crazy, and I don't want to bore everyone. So any one interested, I will tell you about it. I don't mind telling people about it so let me know.

    Anyway, I just found other sources and have never been able to scrape any clean time under my belt. 60 days maybe, but not in a row. I even went to in patient rehab. I started taking them again a few months after I got out. SO this is why when I found Suboxone and the physical and mental cravings stopped, I thought I had found a miracle drug. I have had people to offer hydro's to me and can honestly say that I don't want them anymore. I am afraid, once I stop the Suboxone, I may not be able to say that. I don't want to go back to that way of living.

    But what happens when the Suboxone ends? Am I cured? lol Do people who quit the Suboxone have a long time effect from it and be able to refuse the hydro's forever? I know this is just a pipe dream. I know addicts don't get cured. This is why I am afraid to stop the Suboxone. Isn't a life on Suboxone better than one on hydros? And why do I feel these are my only choices? I know lots of people who are drug free without other meds to help them stay clean. I don't feel I am one of those people. Staying clean has not been a reality for me in the past.

    Also, my new doc also thinks I have ADHD and that it has been misdiagonsed due to the substance abuse. So she threw some Adderall into the mix. So now, I take 8 mgs of Suboxone a day and 20 mgs of Adderall. The Adderall seems to calm me down and has been able to help my concentration and mental fortitude. What do you guys think of this combination? I am getting leary of doctors. Some can make matters worse. But I don't have any experience with Adderall. I shared in an earlier message that I would take Ritalin to help with the hydro withdrawals. But that wasn't long term.

    I guess I have gone on long enough. Some days I guess I just feel like sharing my experiences. Maybe this will help Fisherman get some sleep. Just read this post and it will put you to sleep better than any pill, warm milk, or a bad novel. lol

    Thanks to everyone or anyone that replies.
    Rebecca

    Last edited by RebeccaW62; 08-28-2004 at 08:53 AM.

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 08:45 AM   #8
    fisherpard
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Rebecca,

    Thanks for your reply. I really don't think it to be terrible to stay on Suboxone. It is far better than the other opiates. My doctor even mentioned that if I was not better by day 14 that I should consider the option myself. I don't think I will ever not "miss the feeling" opiates give you.

    I was on the same Sub dosage as you.

    It is just I private paid for everything even the doctor. Gets pretty expensive. I also have hobbies that would prohibite me from the activities if I was proven to be a addiict. I even refused giving the doctor or pharmacy my SS#. It would also affect my job.
    I had constant constipation . I also have several health problems that can cause severe pain and always had a fear that I would be on the Sub and have some kind of a emergency.

    Believe me I did not want to come off the Sub. I was at some of my best while on it. People even told my wife that the old man seemed like he was acting like he did in the old days.

    So I do have the option to go back on the Sub. I am the one who choose to come off. My Doctor would keep me on a maintnance dose for as long as I wanted.

    Just had to give it a try,
    fisherman

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 09:05 AM   #9
    RebeccaW62
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Thanks fisherman. I wasn't sure why you were coming off the suboxone. I would rather be on Sub than the hydro's for sure. I may be paranoid, but I wonder things like:
    What if they quit making Suboxone? Maybe they will discover that it has some bad side affects like phen phen and take it off the market.
    What if something happens to my doctor? Other docs I have spoken to don't even know what Suboxone is? Most pharmacists here don't know what it is either.
    What happens if I have a major accident while taking Suboxone and need surgery or pain meds. If I take pain meds, will they take away the pain but just not give me the high?

    Maybe I am just being paranoid. But sersiouly, what would happen if you had to take pain meds for something medical while on Suboxone? Would the pain meds cut the pain? Food for thought.

    If anyone knows how this works let me know. I hope this isn't going to be considered a bad post since I am asking these questions. I don't have any bad intentions, just kinda curious.

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 09:22 AM   #10
    RebeccaW62
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    I hadn't read Fisherman's post about the tooth pain before I posted my questions? It is surprising to know how many non narcotic pain relievers there are out there? Do they work? I guess so. I would never give them a honest go of it before because I wanted the narcotic ones. I know Torodol is the one they give most to those who don't want a narcotic pain reliever. Try it.

    Root canal isn't always the answer for those back teeth. For front teeth yes as you want to preserve them. But for back teeth-just have it pulled. It is far cheaper, takes less time, and less pain. With a root canal you have to have a crown. Root canal and crown will run $1,000.00 here. Pulling about $50.00.

    As for trying to stay away from pain meds and having serious pain is a bummer. I know that the brain wants these babies so bad that it will manufacture pain. I don't mean to imply that for you Fisherman as true pain does exist and happen.

    Just call your dentist or a friend's dentist and tell him the situation. Dentists hate Saturday and Sunday phone calls and usually just want to prescibe something over the phone, if they know you. Tell them a non narcotic pain reliever if this is the case. They also know that junkies call on the weekends, so they will be glad to know you are not drug seeking.

    There is always the ER too. Find one that will work with you on payments. I know it is hard to be in pain and negotiate payment arrangements at the same time, but we would if we were looking for narcotics. I would drive any place day or night when I wanted those suckers.

    Good luck. Sorry to hear about your tooth. Stay strong.

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 09:25 AM   #11
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Fisherman,

    If you need the number to a good dentist, let me know. My ex brother in law is a dentist. He may help as long as you aren't looking for narcotics. He remembers my drug seeking days all to well.

    Rebecca

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 09:52 AM   #12
    Brenda1953
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    What a drag. Tooth pain is the worst.

    Every bone and muscle in my body aches since I went through wd. Guess my brain isn't making endorphins yet. Or just small amounts.

    I've tried every OTC pain reliever there is. They don't work. Not for me, anyway.

    Narcotic wd just keeps on giving. You get over one thing and it throws something else at you.

    My latest thing, besides the depression, is I can't stand to have shoes on. It is just the weirdest thing. I mean I know I'm a hillbilly but this is ridiculous.

    Shoeless in WV,

    Brenda

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 10:05 AM   #13
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Nothing bad about being a hillbilly. I grew up going all summer bare footed. I can remember seeing Ronnie Van Zant in concert and he was barefooted on stage. I'm a just a couple of states away from you. Right now the advil is giving me relief. I hope it holds up,

    wishing you well,

    Fisherman

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 10:57 AM   #14
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    I also had tooth pain when I was coming off opiates. All of your pain comes back when you get off opiates. I suppose they really do work for pain!

     
    Old 08-28-2004, 11:00 AM   #15
    fisherpard
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    Re: Day 9 off Suboxone

    Thanks Over for shooting me a line. You have been on my mind today. I hanging on even though it is by a thread. Lets hope tomorrow day 11 will be my magic day. You have been a inspiration.

    your friend,
    fisherman

     
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