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    Old 09-27-2004, 05:31 PM   #16
    fisherpard
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    dschne,

    I don't know if the physical w/d's are any worse than Hydro's just about twice as long. The tough part is the emotional w/d's and I think they are going to be a wide degree of differences because we all have different grieving processes. The success for the Sub is a slow long taper and if you can afford a rehab it would be worth the time and expense. Re-training the brain is hard to do and it helps if you have counseling everyday.

    It does get better after you make a couple of weeks.

    thanks,
    fisherman

     
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    Old 09-27-2004, 05:48 PM   #17
    dschne
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Thank you so much for the repsonse I will have about 2 weeks lyong around the house with out the use of my left arm in stiches and such so I am thinking might be a good time to be w/d,s since i dont have to go to work then and my wife can help me.I am just kinda trying to make a plan for myself so I can get off this I know it kills pain becouse after my first surgery I only needed 2-4 pain pills the day of and after that right back on my sub and motrin and I was able to live with the pain I have managed to tear up both my elbows the nerves in them from very heavy weight lifting when i was younger and football and have carpel in both hands hence 2 surgeries.I am also quiting the benzos cold turkey right now have been taking xanax 2mg everynight for along time now at least a year so that will prob cause me some problems too.But I am determined to beat these things and dont want any of it in my life anymore esspecialy now that I can see my wonderful 7yr old daughter who,s b-day is this SAT and my wonderful wife god has blessed me so much so now im going to learn to do his will and count on him for my strengh.Banker is the one who saved me on this board to begin with,so I will stay with everyone through this and help how ever I can.
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    Old 09-28-2004, 07:05 AM   #18
    sammi
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Hey Dan just a quick thought, if you are thinking about getting off of Sub I highly recommend you do a very slow taper. My Dr has me dropping my dose by 1/2 a mg every THREE WEEKS. I was taking 6mg a day and right now I'm down to 5 1/2 mgs. I noticed NO w/d's dropping by 1/2 a mg. As of Thursday I will drop down to 5mg a day and stay there for another three weeks. Supposedly if you do a very slow taper the w/d's are bearable.

    I will keep you posted and please keep us posted on your progress.

    Good luck and I hope you feel better soon,
    Sammi

    One more thing, do you think it's a good idea to stop sub especially when you're in so much pain? I would consider waiting until your arm is healed and then start a taper. One good thing about sub is it is also good for pain, when sub first came out it was used for chronic pain patients, but I guess it wasn't strong enough.

     
    Old 09-28-2004, 07:51 AM   #19
    agentalias
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Dan,
    that poster who used hydros to taper from Sub was Over, but she's been banned now. I would not suggest doing that unless you are absolutely mentally prepared to quit opiates period. Sammi's advice is more sound and more likely to have you safely off the Sub. However, I read that you are coming off the benzos at the same time which will make your WDs two fold worse than just jumping off the Sub. That's a deadly mix to WD from which most likely make you relapse. Why don't you concentrate on getting off one at a time so it wouldn't be so hard on you. A slow taper off Sub should be fine as with Benzos.
    Take care

     
    Old 09-28-2004, 12:33 PM   #20
    Twinlynn
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    Smile Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Sammi -

    Thanks sooooo much for letting me know that you are still a bonafide, card-carrying member of "Sub Supporters"! I thought I was getting paranoid, as I read post after post of people who had formerly walked hand-in-hand with their new best friend--then suddenly could not drop that friend fast enough!

    Your explanation and reasoning make so much sense. And your solidifying the case for Sub--and reminding me why it has slowly come to symbolize "hope" for me--came just at the right time. It also reinforced something I often think about re. this Board--how each person's words can so directly impact that particular reader's life. And...the extreme importance of just how those words are said.

    No matter how much you want to point a person towards reality...and the implications of what they are thinking and doing....each person reacts so indivdually to the tone of those words. And it is way too easy, when your own experience and knowledge give you strong opinions, to use "cutting truths" and "reality-checks" in such a harsh way that a hesitant, depressed reader feels foolish--or frightened--to the extent that they withdraw from, e.g., learning more about the topic--or trying a certain type of withdrawal, or considering a particular drug in detoxing, etc.

    Each one of us, whether it's because of brain chemistry, personality type, or psychological disposition, will react differently to the same ideas...the same words. We ARE each unique---and, yet, most addicts share very common traits--from self-delusion to avoidance, etc. . So, in finding a withdrawal method that works best for you..you become aware that the guy next to you might have zero results from what "changed your life."

    How we speak to others on this Board and how we express our knowledge has the power to change life's direction. And....your post, for example, was so filled with your enthusiasm for the Suboxone...and mirrored my own gut feelings of "this may work for me." (Like Dallas Alice and her MMT program.)

    This post is too long-winded! What I really want to say, Sammi, is that Alice and I will probably be calling a Sub doctor next week! And your words on this thread--along with the kind, supportive posts you (and others) have sent to me--have had a large impact on my decision about Suboxone. (I also very much appreciated hearing the reality of the negative aspects of this drug.)

    This Board really does change lives. (And, I have to say, that I now really think twice...before I just blythely send out a post!)

    Anyway....thanks again for specifically calming my doubts!

    Lynn

     
    Old 09-28-2004, 01:29 PM   #21
    dschne
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Thank you so much for the input and It sounds like I better do some adjusting to my plan so I will the benzo,s dont seem to cause me to many problems I dont know why except that I have to learn to sleep on my own and that I will do no matter what.Another hard thing is braking your doses up it is so hard to brake those little dudes up and know I have a 4mg part 2mg etc.now for 2 days I am at 10-12 mg prety close by looking at the broken peices i took and will stay there i guess now for a couple weeks.I started at 4 8mg a day so where I am now is much lower and feel fine.The statement about SUB less is better or something like that is true my Doc should have never put me on 4 8mg a day TOO MUCH but I didnt know better at the time.I will keep yall posted on how its going for me and hope and pray everybody hear is doing ok today and can acheive what we all want to do get rid of the chemicals in our lives.
    There really are some wonderful people on these boards that can truly save your life by just reading what they have to say and have went through that is an awsome power to me for this board to be able to impact lifes the way it does.I know for me I will beat this no matter what I love what I have been blessed with and am not going to lose it for anything,and will be here to help if I can and look for help when I need it.thanks for listening to me everybody.
    Dan
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    Old 09-28-2004, 02:13 PM   #22
    fisherpard
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Dan,

    Please take my advice on the Suboxone because myself and everyone I have talked to concured. Do a nice slow taper and I mean slow. I tried to do mine over a 6 week period and that was a mistake. My Doctor even advised against it. I went 22 Sub free and had to start Subutex on day 23 due to chronic pain issues. The pain management and Sub doctor both agreed that was my best avenue. It does come at a cost. Constipation and a low sex drive.

    If I decide to get off the Subutex it will be at a minimum 6 month taper and go down to basically crumbs.

    I was able to make the 22 days and felt some better with the w/d's but still had a big emotional love for the drug. It probably takes several months for that to get better.

    I would also if possible go to a rehab facility for around 30 days to get the proper counsiling to re-train my brain.

    If you can slow is better and you will have a greater chance for success. I will follow your condition as you wean off and try to help anyway possible. Remember when you are in w/d's a clonidine patch will help very much.

    best wishes,
    fisherman

     
    Old 09-28-2004, 02:36 PM   #23
    dschne
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Thank you Fisherpad for your words I followed your story and read everything you went thru so i will try the same except slower hopefully.My doc seems to think you should end when he says and when I go in and tell him I am having trouble going lower yet he gives me the dont use pills for life speach AA style since he is recovering himself so its scarry olmost I sure dont want him to stop treating me all of a sudden one day and I am being honest with him about everything.So basically I am afraid to tell him when I go in hey I can only cut down so much every month.thanks again
    Dan
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    Old 09-28-2004, 02:51 PM   #24
    RebeccaW62
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Anyone tapering off Suboxone should follow their doctor's directions.

     
    Old 09-28-2004, 02:59 PM   #25
    dschne
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    well he doesnt want me to stop by taking small steps he thinks 1/2 a 8mg tab at a time and from what I can see that is not good to do.
    Dan
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    Old 09-28-2004, 03:07 PM   #26
    fisherpard
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    While I do agree in most part with Rebecca, I have to lean to the side of good judgement. You must trust your doctor and then I would still be cautious. I know doctors who will give you any drug and how much you ask for on the drop of the hat. Do I follow their orders? It all comes down to common sense and knowledge. We all know there are "good" doctors and there are "bad" doctors. We sometimes forget they are human and such can make mistakes like all of us.

    Would I ever tell someone to not follow their doctor? Never

    just something to ponder on,
    fisherman

     
    Old 09-28-2004, 06:51 PM   #27
    sammi
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Fisherman, I totally agree with your post and I hope I have not encouraged anyone not to follow their Dr's orders....

     
    Old 09-28-2004, 06:55 PM   #28
    dschne
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    I also agree about the good dr,s and bad dr,s made me think thanks.sorry I seemed defensive in the earlier post.
    Dan
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    Old 09-28-2004, 07:10 PM   #29
    sammi
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Lynn--

    I am so excited for you and Alice!! I can truly feel how much you both want to be "normal" again. I say "normal" like this because I know there are people on here that feel like Sub gives you a false sense of feeling normal, but hey for me that is exactly what I needed at the time. I needed to know that it was (is) possible to be your old self again. The way I look at it is this way, what about all of those people out there that take heart meds, anti-depressants, pain meds (responsibly), they're taking it to feel normal and live a normal life, I just so happen to need Sub to do that at this point so what's the difference???? Yes, I would love not to have to take a pill to feel normal, but I'm sure those people with heart problems, depression problems and pain problems feel the same way!!!

    I will pray that Sub will work as well for you and Alice as it has for myself. Pleaseeeeee keep me posted.

    Sammi

     
    Old 09-29-2004, 06:56 AM   #30
    goddessgrl65
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    Re: suboxone taper/detox-post experiences...

    Good morning friends-
    I wanted to shout-out-to the TWINS...i believe from the bottom of my heart-that suboxone is going to be benificial/to your recovery-and i am grateful that i found out about sub-and have been faitfhul to this treatment for the past year.I feel it saved my family/my life..i could of died-doing what i was so foolishly doing-playing w/ fire..
    Why do i want out?I don't really want to stop...right now-im tapering and would like to be on the lowest dose possible..i know that when real w/d's hit-im in for the wake-up call of my life-cos this med has made me feel as though my addiction..never happened.
    I know it did-im reminded everyday on this board-or when i go to meetings-or see/hear about someones addiction-including my sister-who is still messing w/ hydro.
    But-i feel removed from it-because the medication works soo well-on the depression aspect associated w/ addiction-and the lack of cravings-
    I did have a few days-of cravings-ok..that made me remember the chaos-its hard to define-mostly- i miss the creativity-my soul-its a tad null..thats why i want to stop-who am i-?I want to be free...of all drugs..is it possible?
    Im willing to try..and take a leap-
    Maybe it will work-if it doesn't i can maintain for as long as i need to-
    I guess-unless the dr. insists i stop..
    But w/ clinical depression-there are obstacles..so i guess im gonna have to go w/ the flow-continue tapering and see where it leads...
    Sammi/and friends..we all have each other-and we are so blessed to have this support-i am eternally grateful...
    I just don't ever want to be a junky again...
    My pals that didn't make it out-the horror ive witnessed-the brain damage..
    hellooooooo...no thanks..i just want to live my simple existence-and feel-
    Be real.Be me.
    Its not alot to ask-but its alot of work-the sub-like ADs-or any med one needs to take to live-productive/healthy life..eased me out of alot of pain.
    Lennon said-feel your own pain...
    ultimately-i will have to face myself-
    This is a ramble-im sorry-
    I love you guys-sometimes you gotta ramble on...
    ggrl65

     
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