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    Old 12-07-2004, 06:59 PM   #1
    Brenda1231
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    Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Okay,

    I have been neglecting my duties to check this site frequently since about 6 pm.Was hoping to hear some really great news on how y'all did.

    Please , please give us an update!
    With no update, I fear that induction did not go well (as it doesn't for some). If not, DON'T give up. Sometimes it is really tricky to find the right dosage of sub, and the major problem is that taking too much sub, mimics opiate withdrawal, causing most to take more, when in fact they should be cutting down.

    I was quite lucky, and got the right dose from the git go.(although I messed it up later) The day of my Sub appt. I 'cheated' in order to make it to the appt; I had some temgesic (buprenorphine, in VERY low doses). I took my last Hydro about 12 hours before my first Sub appt. Then upon waking, I took a couple of .02 temgesic. Calculated, it would take 10 temgesics to make up one 2 mg. Sub. However, at the end of my hydro use, I would start to feel w/d within 4 to 6 hours of my last dose, and I knew that I would not be able to make it to the appt without something.
    Anyway, I was given the script at the appt, filled it immediately at the hospital pharmacy, and upon taking a 2 mg. Suboxone, I was able to take care of some appts. I stupidly set up for the same day. I had no w/d, and actually felt energetic and optomistic.

    However, I have read many reports of others becomin ill right after taking the sub, then they either take more and get sicker, or give up immediately.

    There are several reasons that one would have w/d like symptoms after taking the Sub.

    So let us know how it went!

     
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    Old 12-07-2004, 09:30 PM   #2
    christianmom
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Lynn & Alice,

    I had a Christmas party tonight, but ALL night long all I could think about was running home to my computer to check for an update from the two of you. Please update us as soon as you possibly can...I need to hear how it went! I have even better news than I did yesterday..one of the other doctor's that I had called yesterday called back today..they DO take my insurance, and they can also get me in on Thursday (so I'm going to this particular doctor instead of the one I had the appt. with already..it's further away, but worth it $$$-wise). SO, I only have to pay my normal $30 copay for the appt. itself, and they assured me that they would start me on the Sub. THAT day. I'm so extremely excited to get this started. However, I hope and pray that the two of you had a good experience...I need some reassurance. I know it might take some time to get "stabilized", but I truly believe this will work for all of us! Please update as soon as you can! In the meantime, you both remain in my every thought & prayer!!!!!!

    Much love,
    CM

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 05:49 AM   #3
    Twinlynn
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    Smile Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Gee, guys, so sorry we didn't write last night. We were sooo tired, that we were asleep by about 8:30 pm. And we haven't started the sub yet, because we were told to come to the appt. yesterday, with the regular amount of drugs inside us and not stop them until last night...SO--it's only this morning that withdrawal has started and it will be afternoon before we start our dose. Roll on, afternoon! I have klonipin and clonodine she gave us if we need it before Sub time. But she said we should really try to be in withdrawal before we start the Sub.

    She will have us start on 8 mgs...and we are to keep a journal from hour to hour matching the dose we are taking with the relief--or no relief--we are feeling. If the 8 mg is good...then leave it at 8 until tomorrow when she sees me. If withdrawal isn't helped by the 8mg..go up a couple more, etc. It really relies on us using our brains and instincts and making decisions about the amount based on our recorded reactions.

    I have decided that by 2 pm today, I will start it--that would be 12 hours off the oxys. Unless I still feel okay...and then I'd wait a little longer. I am sitting here waiting for those wild and crazy withdrawals to hit. I'll be going upstiars to Alice's apt soon.

    Our doctor seems very experienced in addictions and Sub--and thinks it has been a Godsend for many patients since Sub was produced. According to her there are so many, many people--in their 40s and 50s--who are in situations like Alice and mine. And she is very happy that a drug like Sub has come along for us.

    I see her tomorrow at 11:30 am, so we can see how the sub is working. Also, she is very aware of my depression history and is going to make sure that I don't take any chances on it starting up in any way. She seems very sensitive to our personal difficulties.

    So! Thanks to all for being so concerned and I promise I will write back as soon as I try the sub later. I feel pretty lousy now and have just taken some Klonpin to try to lie down and sleep a little.

    Christianmom--We are so excited about your appt.---this has been an amazing time with so many of us being here to support one another.

    And, Brenda, thanks so much for all the details about the meds.

    Well, I will write more as soon as I feel more able to write again! This wthdrawal is ugly. Can barely write. love to you all. You have been so kind.

    xxx Lynn and Alice xxx

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 06:02 AM   #4
    Pill Diva
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    I haven't been on the boards for a couple of days but I am SOOOOOO excited to see that you both are starting on the sub. I hope and pray that it works as great for you both as it has for so many of us. It's great to hear that your Doctor sounds so well educated in the sub dept. I can't tell you how excited I am that you are starting on the journey of getting your life back. This is the best news I have had in a couple of days!!!!!!!.....

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 06:09 AM   #5
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Hi Twins-
    Keep us posted on whats happening w/ you guys-im very happy you both are starting on the sub..
    I think you will be pleasantly surprised..
    im late but i wanted to send you my love/best wishes..
    Same to Cristianmom-this is great news!
    (((hugs)))
    ggrl

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 07:46 AM   #6
    Brenda1231
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Twins,

    From all the sub experiences I have read since starting it myself, it sounds like a rational induction. This is the way that my dr. had me start, by upping or lowering my sub dose according to my symptoms.

    Just two cautions (I wished I had researched this a bit more, and had this info when I started sub):
    The first is to be careful when monitoring your w/d symptoms. Unfortunately, too much sub in many people, mimic w/d symptoms, and they take too much. Since it is long lasting, it will accumulate in your system and take awhile to get low enough to feel good. For me, too much produced a nagging headache and a nausea.
    The second, when you find that magical number that produces a great feeling of well being...it's hard to describe; not a buzz, but definitely a lift in mood, energy and general well being, DON'T be tempted to take a little more to increase that effect. It wil not only NOT increase the effect, but likely negate it.

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 08:15 AM   #7
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Hi Lynn and Alice!
    Like some of the other posters have mentioned, I was anxious to hear how your appt. went and found myself checking the board a coupla extra times last night... I also know that though a wonderful, exciting new journey is about to begin, you might have been too exhausted and who knows full of whatever other emotions to check in. This is afterall a huge undertaking filled with apprehension and fear of the unknown. I so trust you will post AS YOU ARE ABLE. No pressure, ever! Go with the flow. You know you have a huge fan club here who is rooting for you ... keep that in your pocket as you go through the next few hours, days, etc. till you are stablized and feeling well, which I know you will be very soon!
    Lynn, I so empathize with also dealing with major clinical depression. This has been a lifetime battle for me too, self medicating with opiates and all. I have been on almost every AD around with only very minimal or short term relief. Actually tomorrow this "East side girl", will be venturing over to your side of the park (CPW). I have an appt with a new psyhcopharmocologist (sp), who has been helpful with treating others with chemical abuse histories. I continue to have hope that the right combination is out there for me.
    Anyway, I just came on to tell you how courageous I think you both are and what an inspiration you are to others that know you and follow your posts!
    I'm running off to my noontime meeting, to get my medicine for the day.
    I'm praying for you and want you to know I'm here if I can help in anyway.
    Love and hugs,
    Ellen

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 08:15 AM   #8
    Twinlynn
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Dear Brenda,

    Am still holding our for another hour or so, but feeling horrible. I'm just afraid it won't work if I take it too early...but I want so much to just take it now. I haven't let myself experience real withdrawal in some years...and, oh gawd, I forgot what a hell it was.

    I am so, so glad you are here to give us this information. Our new psychiatrist talked to us like we had all just completed out Sub course together--and were fellow medical graduates--she seemed to assume we'd follow absolutely everything she said...but, of course, when you are nervous, you don't! I THINK I understand all the basics..but having someone experienced like you, here, is just so wonderful.

    Please tell me. She said "hold out as long as you can...say, until it gets to your stomach and you get diarhhea. Try to hold out til "real" withdrawal." Well--Brenda--how do I know if it's REAL? I feel AWFUL--is that real?? My stomach is upset. My pulses are pounding. I can't concentrate on anything. Can barely write on computer. Does this sound like adequate withdrawal, based on your OWN experience?

    What happens if I take the Sub too soon?

    Sorry for such a disjointed letter. Am really finding it hard to get my thoughts together. Thanks so much for writing with your experience. Lynn

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 11:35 AM   #9
    Twinlynn
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    Talking Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Dear Friends,

    It's 1:50 pm....and it's exactly two hours since Alice and I launched our ***age on the "SS Subutex (Suboxone)."

    By 11 am this morning, I was about to go up in spontaneous combustion, my withdrawal was so bad. I told Alice I just couldn't wait any longer, so she suggested I come up to her apt (we're in the same building). And, then....being twins (LOL!)--we took our 8 mg. at the exact same time.

    We were both in a really awful way at that point....very, very sick, but....literally....within ten minutes...we could actually feel the withdrawal symptoms slipping away. By twenty minutes later, it was like...I guess the best way to describe it was: it was like I'd taken an opiate and my body slowly felt fine...but this time...there was no "high." Just a feeling of well-being. (And a big sense of relief!)

    It is so strange to feel like this....not waiting either for an opiate "surge"....or to start "coming down" and feel the dread that you will soon need another pill. I was so rarely "in the middle" anymore....I was either up or down, as if you were looking at a graph on a sales chart. I guess this is what "normal" is...but it is so hard to remember how I used to feel.

    All I can say is that I am just so relieved right now (and Alice is, too), to feel "calm" again. No withdrawal, no high, no low. It's almost as if the silence in my brain is deafening!! It's been so long since I just "listened."

    Christianmom--if you are reading this....I am so happy you have that appt. tomorrow. You will feel so much better. I promise. Please write and tell us how it goes.

    And, ELNYC...just read you post now....you are soooo sweet. Thanks so much for caring. I so understand what you've been through with your depressions...I, too have battled them for way too much of my life...and I hope so much your new pharmacologist will be able to help you.

    And a million thanks to everyone here (Ggrl--you gave us that special "push!"), who has given us such incredible support to make this decision...and go through with it! We "sat on the fence" for a loooong time!

    I'm feeling very weary right now--the Sub? Or just my body relaxing? So, I'm going to lie down for awhile...and just think about the whole "miracle." I'll report back later. (Dallas Alice...if you're reading this...I'll be writing to you real soon.)

    much, much love to all, Lynn (and Alice) xxx

    Last edited by Twinlynn; 12-08-2004 at 11:41 AM.

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 12:50 PM   #10
    christianmom
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Lynn & Alice,

    What a wonderful testimony of your first "experience" with the sub. I hope & pray that it continues to be such a good experience for both of you, and that it just keeps getting better from here on out. The two of you are such a HUGE inspiration to me (and many, many others!), and you have me excited to "get the ball rolling" tomorrow myself. I'm so ready to feel "normal" again....like you said, without any extreme "highs" or "lows". I am just SO ready. I hope you will continue to update us throughout this journey....and please do so as often as you can. I truly need to hear as much about your experience on the sub. as you are willing to offer. My appt. tomorrow is at 3:30 P.M., but I will not start the medication until Friday morning (because I've been instructed about having to be in withdrawals before starting). I just hope I know exactly WHEN to start as well...it sounds like you all waited far enough into your withdrawals and it worked the way it's supposed to. I just hope I get really specific instructions on when to start, so I don't have a bad, first experience/reaction. I'll be checking in throughout the day/afternoon/evening for further updates on you ladies, and I will most definitely update everyone after my appt. tomorrow. Congratulations again for taking such a HUGE step, and for doing such an AWESOME job at it!!! You two are my biggest INSPIRATION right now, and I admire you both more than you'll ever know!!!

    Much love,
    CM

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 12:58 PM   #11
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    So glad to hear how you ladies are doing. Hang in there and let me make some "pick me up" suggestions.....................

    1) Go cuddle those sweet little canine children!

    2) Order dinner from Mara's - it's on East 6th Street - great southern vittles.

    3) Barney's and/or Sephora - those speak for themselves!!!

     
    Old 12-08-2004, 01:15 PM   #12
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Hey CM! Lynn and I are sitting at the keyboard right now, still feeling "normal!" A new sensation!! I had a little feeling of withdrawal about 3 hrs after the first dose (8mg), (but lynn didn't), so I took 4mg and that helped. It's really weird after all these years not to reach for a 'happy' PILL! I'm sure that will take awhile to 'sink in.' But this drug is sure amazing! I was in about 15 hrs withdrawal. Took my last pill at nite so part of the WDs would be during bedtime! But around 11AM, my body was talking to me - SCREAMING for relief. I knew it was time - if not past time! - to start the Sub. Even as it dissolved on my tongue, I could feel 'something' happening. I am so sure you will have the same experience. I now see why everyone here on Sub considers this a miracle drug. Our doctor confirmed how 'lucky' we were to have this drug available. We can't wait to hear about YOUR experience. It's great that the 3 of us are doing this together!

    HydroQueen! We didn't know you were a fellow NYer! Barneys and Sephora. And that restaurant sounds wonderful!! Does it have an uptown branch???
    Alice & Lynn

     
    Old 12-09-2004, 05:02 AM   #13
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Im such a baby..w/tears of happiness in my eyes..girls..im so happy for u..
    this is the start of something wonderful..your freedom/health/good times ahead..
    It WILL make the differance in your life..Lynn-i swear-your isolation days..will turn around..cos you will have the energy-mentally/physically to enjoy life again..and you/alice will be going down those slopes-w/out pillus interuptus..lol..
    so happy for you both..
    your friend..
    ggrl

     
    Old 12-09-2004, 06:34 AM   #14
    Twinlynn
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    Smile Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    Ggrl,

    Aw.....you really had tears for us, you were so happy?? I promise not to make you cry again! LOL! Thanks sooo much for your sweet words.

    Right now, I feel "other worldly". Like...."How can I not be in withdrawal right now?? When I came off four 40 mg oxy a day!?!" No matter how much I prayed and obsessed that Sub. would come to my rescue, as you all promised me, still....I always worried "oh, gawd(ess), what if I'm the exception to the rule. What if I stand alone in medical science for having a body like Kryptonite that refuses to let the Sub. in!?!?!" (Ever the optimist--that's me!) But, of course, I'm just another "Jane Doe"--and OF COURSE I don't have the world's only body not to have some response to the medication!! In fact...the response feels pretty miraculous! And, I'm writing below a short physical and mental reaction that is going on in my body right now.

    Physical - I took 8mg, as prescribed, at 5:30 am, when I awoke, thanks to a dawn-patrol Lhasa Apso, who has never accepted the scientifical premise that "a body at rest tends to remain at rest."

    The dose may have been a little too much for me, because (1) I'm very sleepy, and (2) I've had this "tightness" and clenching feeling at the jaw, which is like a mild version of one of my withdawal symptoms. Brenda, in her post above, warned us that with Sub, if you take TOO much...you can have symptoms that mimic withdrawal. And that these symptoms should not immediately be seen as having taken too LITTLE of the Sub. Interesting. I see my doctor today at 11:30--so I will ask her about my symptoms.

    I am just so amazed that the Sub. just stopped the awful withdrawals in its tracks. Even tho I know it's an opiate itself...it has no resemblance to the oxys. I had gotten into such an "up and down" syndrome that my system was in a constant state of agitation, expectation, then dropping down and down. But, now, with the Sub....I feel a sense of calm...a sort of stillness, that hadn't been there in me for years. Physically, taking the Sub was like suddenly shutting the window on a loud, confusing cacaphony of jarring sounds...shrieking noises. Everything just got "quiet."

    Mentally - This is the strange one. I did not believe I would feel so bereft at the loss of a substance that started out as "my friend" and turned into "my worst enemy." Last night, I felt I wanted to cry for the loss of the pills. Instead of remembering how in the last year, I was more and more miserable taking them....I remembered the "comfort" of them...and the lifestyle they supported. There was NOTHING I did without the help of a "pal"--whether it was sitting down and writing a letter--or a quick peek at a local gallery. (I say "quick", because I knew that when the pill was "over"--I'd need to be back home immediately. And "local" for the same reason.) In fact, most of the time, I just wanted to be home with my pills. And when they stopped offering me those good moments that they had....I tried even harder to get them "to work." What a nightmare....a mess!! My life has really come to a complete stop.

    And, yet, I still need this period to "mourn", because right now it is hard to imagine ever feeling more than "okay"--I still can't envisage (or remember) a world without "planned" highs to anticipate. I think "what in the world will ever make me "take off" again. And, of course...I know that the answer to that is "life!!" It's just that, like with every loss in life, you need a period to adjust. And then, bit by bit, I know that my old instinct to reach for instant joy will disappear...and will be filled, instead, with REAL life. I am just so happy that I'm finally on that path. And I'm so grateful for all of you who are here to support me.

    And, now, that Sub has made me so sleepy, I must take a nap!!! :-)

    Please keep writing everyone....it helps so much!

    And best of luck to CMom, who is taking her own "first step" today!! Alice and I told her we needed a "triplet." :-)

    luv, Lynn xxx

    Last edited by Twinlynn; 12-09-2004 at 06:36 AM.

     
    Old 12-09-2004, 06:50 AM   #15
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    Re: Twins...c'mon already...update! update!

    I am not a New Yorker, I am a born and bred "Southern Belle". I live even deeper in the old south than our own "Miss Scarlet", Michelle. I do, however,
    LOVE NYC. Besides home, it is my favorite place on the earth.

     
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