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    Old 02-19-2005, 05:30 AM   #1
    bewildered42
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    This blasted ultram

    Happy Saturday Everyone,

    I am struggling so bad with this ultram. Ellnsync, I don't know how with your addiction history you manage to keep your ultram intake to 200mg a day. I have, as I've said before, a truly unlimited supply of it. And if that WOULD ever run out it's so easy to get and so cheap on the internet. I have chronic pain issues with my "corrected" scoliosis and all the hardware that entails. I have a new scoliosis above the correction in my neck and a degeneration of the L5-S1 disk from trying to hold the weight of this massive fusion. That causes sciatica. I exercise by walking 3 miles a day, unless it's too cold out. I help myself! by doing everything they taught me in physical therapy. But the pain is still there. I take way too much ultram. I'm up to 600mg a day. I'm definetly addicted. But it helps me so much in so many ways. The anti-depressive qualities are definetly part of the problem and it also knocks the socks off the pain. I would never cross over to any other narcotic. I'm so worried at this high does about seizures. I have 3 kids who I drive around all the time to their respective activities..what if I had a seizure while driving? They could get killed! All over the ultram. But yet I keep taking it. So stupid! If I could even taper to the allowed dose of 400 mg I would feel better. And then I would start taking the small dose of Pamelor again that I'm suppose to be on at bedtime. I read that tricylclic anti-depressants, which Pamelor is, increases the chances of seizures so I stopped taking it. Now my sleep is messed up without it and that increases the pain. I've simply got to do something about all this...

    BW

     
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    Old 02-19-2005, 10:22 AM   #2
    bluejulie5
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bewildered42
    Happy Saturday Everyone,

    I am struggling so bad with this ultram. Ellnsync, I don't know how with your addiction history you manage to keep your ultram intake to 200mg a day. I have, as I've said before, a truly unlimited supply of it. And if that WOULD ever run out it's so easy to get and so cheap on the internet. I have chronic pain issues with my "corrected" scoliosis and all the hardware that entails. I have a new scoliosis above the correction in my neck and a degeneration of the L5-S1 disk from trying to hold the weight of this massive fusion. That causes sciatica. I exercise by walking 3 miles a day, unless it's too cold out. I help myself! by doing everything they taught me in physical therapy. But the pain is still there. I take way too much ultram. I'm up to 600mg a day. I'm definetly addicted. But it helps me so much in so many ways. The anti-depressive qualities are definetly part of the problem and it also knocks the socks off the pain. I would never cross over to any other narcotic. I'm so worried at this high does about seizures. I have 3 kids who I drive around all the time to their respective activities..what if I had a seizure while driving? They could get killed! All over the ultram. But yet I keep taking it. So stupid! If I could even taper to the allowed dose of 400 mg I would feel better. And then I would start taking the small dose of Pamelor again that I'm suppose to be on at bedtime. I read that tricylclic anti-depressants, which Pamelor is, increases the chances of seizures so I stopped taking it. Now my sleep is messed up without it and that increases the pain. I've simply got to do something about all this...

    BW

    WOW you have a huge addiction and need to go to a DR> ASAP
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    Old 02-19-2005, 11:39 AM   #3
    bewildered42
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    That is the very LAST thing I plan to do, bluejulie.

    BW

     
    Old 02-19-2005, 02:12 PM   #4
    Jon_F
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    I know how you feel, I used to be hooked on 15-20 ultram a day even while I was doing other drugs I had to have my Ultram. I think the W/ds from ultram are among the weirdest and the worst. I actually was even still taking ultram when i started my suboxone maintenance a lil over a month ago but found out I didnt need it no more. There has been many times when I was clean for a long period of time and thought I could start taking ultrams again and it got me started back on everything else and worse off then before. Another thing I find odd is when I was strung out on the 15-20 ultram a day, when I ran out and became sick hardly any drug could help besides morphine and methadone. Oxy would help for about 4 hrs than Id be sick again. Even the meth and morphine only helped a lil while. I would have horrible headaches, tremors and all kinds of uncomfort things happen when I W/D from them. I think that has to say something about the drug how it takes heavy narcotics to replace them. Hydrocodone is out of the question for helping withdrawls from ultram, doesnt help hardly any. I think there is a lot that the medical community doesnt know about tramadol but they are starting to find out. Anyway, just sharing my past experience with this drug and how hard of a time I had with it. Good Luck !

     
    Old 02-19-2005, 02:20 PM   #5
    Jon_F
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    You can try changing to the ultracet. They are less addictive and less likely to cause seizures. I have done that before and you will be slightly sick for a day or two then 2 of them 3 times a day will help you fine if you can discipline yourself to take as directed. I have no discipline but when I went to jail one time I had already ate all my ultrams and I had my grandmother pick up a script of the ultracet from the pharmacy and bring them to the jail. I believe after about a week I was used to the ultracet and they helped me. But, when I got out I went back to the ultram lol. Just a suggestion man, I know what you are going through

     
    Old 02-19-2005, 02:33 PM   #6
    bluejulie5
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    HI

    Sorry you don't like my suggestion. But when a person says things like:

    "I'm so worried at this high does about seizures. I have 3 kids who I drive around all the time to their respective activities..what if I had a seizure while driving? They could get killed! All over the ultram. But yet I keep taking it."

    AND:
    I've simply got to do something about all this...

    The first thing that popped into my head was, maybe this person should
    seek some medical attention.
    Was not trying to be critical, or even rude.
    Just a suggestion.
    I have had a horrible addiction to Lortabs and I ended up having to
    go to a MD to get on methadone.

    Whatever you choose to do, I wish you the BEST.
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    Old 02-19-2005, 07:07 PM   #7
    bewildered42
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    Oh geez, bluejulie, I can see that my answer came across wrong. I can't go to my doctor because he just wouldn't take it well! There are many more reasons but I won't go into it all right now. Suffice to say that won't work. If you search under my name I posted a letter when I first found this board with more details about why I feel like I can't share this with anyone. I have considered going to a suboxone doctor in a town near ours.

    When I look at the part of the post you referenced I realize I'm probably overstating the severity of my problem. The allowed max for ultram is 400mg and I do some days reach 600mg, but that would be during the night if I'm having pain. During the day when I'm with my family I probably don't exceed 300-400mg. I don't have side effects from ultram other than sleepiness, but that can be solved with a diet coke or coffee. Ultram IS really addictive contrary to what the literature says, but one thing about it is it doesn't hold the side effects that some narcotics do. If I could take a regular NSAID, I would! I have an ulcer from too many of those for too many years.

    Ever since I read that ultram can cause seizures I worry about that. I read though that the lowest documented dose that induced the seizures was 800mg so it's probably not a realistic fear. It's just a really scary thought.

    Thanks Jon and bluejulie for the responses. Jon, did you really take 15-20 of these? That would be like 1000mg...now that would worry me!

    BW

     
    Old 02-19-2005, 07:22 PM   #8
    bluejulie5
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bewildered42
    Oh geez, bluejulie, I can see that my answer came across wrong. I can't go to my doctor because he just wouldn't take it well! There are many more reasons but I won't go into it all right now. Suffice to say that won't work. If you search under my name I posted a letter when I first found this board with more details about why I feel like I can't share this with anyone. I have considered going to a suboxone doctor in a town near ours.

    When I look at the part of the post you referenced I realize I'm probably overstating the severity of my problem. The allowed max for ultram is 400mg and I do some days reach 600mg, but that would be during the night if I'm having pain. During the day when I'm with my family I probably don't exceed 300-400mg. I don't have side effects from ultram other than sleepiness, but that can be solved with a diet coke or coffee. Ultram IS really addictive contrary to what the literature says, but one thing about it is it doesn't hold the side effects that some narcotics do. If I could take a regular NSAID, I would! I have an ulcer from too many of those for too many years.

    Ever since I read that ultram can cause seizures I worry about that. I read though that the lowest documented dose that induced the seizures was 800mg so it's probably not a realistic fear. It's just a really scary thought.

    Thanks Jon and bluejulie for the responses. Jon, did you really take 15-20 of these? That would be like 1000mg...now that would worry me!

    BW

    Oh, okay, sorry if I took it wrong; I don't know all of your details because I have not read your previous posts.

    If you can't go to your regular dr. maybe you could find a different one?

    Sorry, I know I am no help.

    I wish you luck though, and I hope all goes well for you!

    Keep us posted please!!!!!!!
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    Old 02-19-2005, 07:45 PM   #9
    Jon_F
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    Yeah I used to get 2 seperate scripts of 180 at different pharmacies and then I would buy them off the street when I ran out. I was pretty bad on them. Actually I went into w/d from them it felt like a seizure was coming. That is a huge dose but it did take me 5 yrs to get there. But, I would have to say I only required about 13-15 of the name brand. The kind I usually got was the generic. Suboxone is the only drug in my opinion that will satisfyingly replace the ultram. Now but in reality that is a much stronger medicine and it is more expensive and harder to come off of. True, ultram w/ds can be uncomfortable,but they are short-lived and usually only take about 3 days to totally get over. With the dose you are taking they wouldnt be bad at all especially if you tapered down and/or used ultracets. I think suboxone is a great drug for people who has been using heavy opiates and IV drugs for a long time. Ya see, I was also on IV morphine and Oxy along with the ultrams so I had a pretty hefty addiction. I dont think suboxone is right for you, especially maintenance because you will only take on a stronger addiction then. And like I said before, it is expensive, even with insurance. If I was you I would switch to the ultracets and taper yourself down if you wanna totally come off them. If you still need something everyday, 6 ultracets a day would be a safe and minmaly addicting dose. Anyway, just offering some suggestions. Very few have had experience with ultram but I have been on and off them for a long time. But keep in mind, this post is only my opinion and I am not saying anything for a fact so make up your own mind.

    Last edited by Jon_F; 02-19-2005 at 07:47 PM.

     
    Old 02-19-2005, 08:15 PM   #10
    Ellnyc
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    Hey BW!
    It's funny you should be talking about these blasted pills today! My dosage was not 200mg, but 100mg. (2-50's a day). Until recently, I should add. I have recently completed major dental work, and rather than take the narcotics that he prescribed (I did need to a few times during the worst of it), but for the most part just opted to take an extra Ultram here and there, since my doc were always narcotics. Well, the dental work was completed on Thursday and I am finding it so hard to go back to the 2 per day (100mg). My body is screaming for that 3rd one! So today, so far I have taken 2 1/2. Now, I have detoxed from some heavy duty drugs in my time, (including methadone, zanax, opiates) but find there is something about these little "non addicting" pills ~ like they wrap themselves around the opiate and seritonin receptors extra firmly, making it SO uncomfortable even to taper by 1/2 tab! Since learning of it's addictive properties, I have tried a couple of times to take a little less,taper by 1/2 or so and for me it's almost impossible. For me, it's the depression that is the worst. I suffer from clinical life long depression anyway. Fortunately my level of pain is low enough that 100 mg per day does the trick, but there was once a time, when I only took 50mg. So tolerance is at work here.

    All I can say to you is to give a small taper a try. Your maintenence dose is higher than mine, so the % of a decrease would be less. Try taking 1/2 tab a day less, till you get to 400mg, and supplement with Advil or tylenol while you do this. See what happens. That's my plan. I'm gonna try to get back to 2, though I know it's not fun. something I learned in rehab, when I went back 10 years ago to give up smoking (yes, smoking) was that to kick an addiction, bottom line is HAVING THE WILLINGNESS TO BE UNCOMFORTABLE. And even for myself getting back to 2, I'll have to have that willingness.

    You know, left to my addictive nature, I could easily pop these pills a few times a day. My doctor prescribes more than I take. I definitely would feel an emotional lift (I do, even on 2-3 per day). I think being a long standing member of AA, (16 years clean and sober) is what keeps me honest and reminds me daily what could happen if I opened up the gates of H**l and started popping pills for the sake of an emotional high~even ultram. Scares me so! I think my fear of re-addiction is what keeps me honest and working hard to maintain this low level dose. EVEN though the addict in me will always wants MORE!

    Btw, I did speak with an addictionologist once about sub for Ultram w/d, but it just seems like an overkill FOR ME, to trade one addicting drug for another very addicting drug, which will be just as difficult for this addict to get off.

    Wishing you the best, and still wishing you would get some outside help. Not many of us can battle this beast alone!
    El

     
    Old 02-20-2005, 08:40 AM   #11
    bewildered42
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    OK, so what I think I'm hearing from you all is that suboxone is not a good way to deal with ultram. So that wouldn't be a good option for this. I guess I was thinking that if I ever really just wanted OFF all at once that it may be the way to go. This is really a hairy problem(as they all are)..if I get off the ultram what will I do about pain? I don't know what to do...I guess the best thing is to taper back down within the allowed limits which is 400mg, knowing I might feel some "blues" as a result, but at least that would eliminate the worry about the seizures. Ellen, you said it really well...ultram just screams at you to take more..it practically eliminates depressive feelings..and of course that's not why I'm taking it. It also helps a great deal with pain. But now that I've been taking it so long I get those depressive feelings if I don't take it. And I never even suffered with depression prior to this. Maybe a little bit of blues here and there but not all out depression. And I do find myself reaching for it too often when it's not time etc.....

    Thank you for your help! Ellen, you sound like you really have a great grip on things and I know you'll continue to have the willpower to get that ultram dose where you want it.

    BW

     
    Old 02-20-2005, 09:46 AM   #12
    Twinlynn
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    BW, Ellen, et al

    What is really scaring me about all I've read on Ultram over the past year is realizing just how many posters on this Board have been prescribed it as a NON-addictive drug. I have some friends here, who no longer post very often, who were prescribed it INSTEAD of opiates. Listening to you, Ellen...and BW...it just reinforces how dangerous Ultram actually is.

    For me, too, depression has always been a factor in my pill taking....and is, I know, in many, many others.................. I realize how lucky I am that I was never prescribed Utram for my back pain, etc. At least I KNEW the opiate drugs were damaging. But if I had been prescribed a drug I was told was non-addictive...and then discovered that it alleviated my depression...I would have leapt at the chance to take it. And I just know this has now happened to so many others. Why in the world is it taking the PATIENTS to inform their doctors that the drug is addicting...and not vice versa!!

    At least with the Subutex I am taking, I have been told in advance by my addictionologist that, although it is allowing my brain to heal from drugs, I will still have to wean off it very slowly to get it off my receptors. But, in this time I am taking it...my brain IS healing from drugs. Unlike Ultram, which appears to have the exact same problems as opiates in the way it sticks to those receptors. (Ellen, you HAD to take something to help you thru your dental pain...so please don't be hard on yourself for overstepping the Ultram with that extra amount. You are doing so much to keep your dosage down. And I think you are so strong to be able to do that!)

    BW, I will go back and check out your first post, so I can read more about you. But I do want you to know that there are so many posts in the archives here from totally unsuspecting Ultram users, like yourself. (Try the Search feature here. Just type in "Ultram"--the Search button is between New Posts and Quick Links, on the top of this page.) As I mentioned, some of my special friends on the board here, were taking Ultram...thinking they'd "beaten" their drug addiction!!!

    Good luck to you and please keep posting. I'll check back. :-) Lynn

    PS Ellen--totally off the the subject...what do you think of The Gates? I'm afraid that other than from a lovely, curving, aerial view (which I can get from my office, overlooking the southwest end of Central Park), they seem a bit severe, when walking thru them....and rather make me think of hospital curtain dividers! LOLOL!! On the other hand....the orange (pardon me...I mean the "sapphron"!) looks lovely against a stormy sky. :-)

     
    Old 02-20-2005, 11:39 AM   #13
    blurayne
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    I have had a ***** of a time getting off of these. I was taking up to 30 50mg pills a day! I loved the energy it gave me and I felt on top of the world! I was able to get sooo much done. I am now down to 1 50mg tab a day and starting tomorrow that goes as well. This is the closest I have come in a long long time. I as well have been in WD's from some serious heavy duty opiates and methadone. These are no picnick! I have had real bad WD symptoms! I find them to be much worse than alot of the narcotic pills. It can be done with a taper though. I mean, if I could get from a 30 day a habit down to nothing, You should have no problem. You just have to stick to it no matter what!!! good luck!

     
    Old 02-20-2005, 12:57 PM   #14
    bewildered42
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    Blurayne,

    MY HAT IS OFF TO YOU!!! Good job getting off these. To go from up to 30 a day to just 1 and now soon NONE is just amazing. You must really have wanted to do it and I am so glad to here you were able to follow through.

    I am really not sure I have the strength you have. I know how bad and addictive this medicine is but I also have unlimited access to it..I have a huge stash of it due to a computer glitch with my mail order last year. They just kept sending it and sending it...360 at a time. The bottle said 99 refill left. I guess that would be a dream for some but for me it gave me the extra burden of having too many and no "I'm running out..I'd better do something" type incentive. I also have another script for this whole year I haven't even filled and that script is for another 360 plus 3 refills. And we all know you can buy this all over the internet for very little.

    I find myself taking them for any little reason. Yes, I have legit pain issues but I've really crossed the line with it. I started out like so many using them correctly and for me I didn't even know for quite some time that I was addicted. After a year or so of that I slowly realized that I was at the point that I needed to take them just to feel normal in the morning. Oh..I could go on!!!

    Nothing REALLLY bad that I can see is coming of my use of these other than the guilt. I'm not acting recklessly, I'm getting them through legit avenues, I'm not in anyway shirking any of my responsibilities as a full time mom and I have a part time business I run(I actually feel like I'm better at those things than I was), I'm not overspending on them since my insurance picked most of it up, they've taken away about 80% of my pain and I'm not depressed or moody anymore. I have no painful incentives to stop as so many who get addicted to things have. Other than the guilt and the fear that someone may find out I'm abusing a drug. But even that chance is pretty slim. I do fear, and probably rightly so, that I've messed up my brain chemistry. If I finally do stop I may have one heck of a time getting back to normal, if I can at all.

    TwinLynn..You are so right about Ultram. I had no idea this would happen. I was told this was a great alternative for people with chronic pain issues that can't for whatever reason take NSAID's. You know, with the negative publicity that the NSAID's are getting right now, I'd bet money that more people are going to fall into the ultram trap. It really should be scheduled as narcotics are. I had a pharmacist online tell me that according to the FDA it has a low addiction potential in comparison to other narcotics and therefore it won't be scheduled any time soon. That was last week. That is why it can be sold as it is online without consequence.

    Sorry to be rambling..my confusion is evident to all of you here! You all are so strong and so wise. I've read some truly inspirational and gut wrenching stories here and I keep up with each and everyone of you even though I'm not posting a lot. I don't feel I have much knowledge to share. I'll keep reading here and try to make sense of this. Thanks for all your replies!

    BW

     
    Old 02-20-2005, 01:15 PM   #15
    rosietee
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    Re: This blasted ultram

    Hi, my computer has been down and just getting it back up and running. Just wanted to say real quick to be really, really careful getting off the tramadol. The more I am learning and remembering, I really think that my grand mal seizure in December was not so much caused by taking the ultram, but caused more from withdrawal from the ultram. There is no scientific evidence to back this up, but let me tell you that everything that I know that I feel that is not backed up by the literature eventually does appear in the literature. E.g., when Paxil first came out, I said it gave me w/d, doctors said no, it does not, and now Paxil w/d symptoms are well-documented. When I took Neurontin in detox, it completely wigged me out, doctors and nurses said oh, no, it could not be doing that, and 2 months later I read about the lawsuits by patients for whom the side effects never went away. Many other things too. They know so little about ultram. I do have to say that physically it is harder to get off the ultram, because it takes a good 2-3 days before you will feel the effects of a reduced dose. So when I wrote in November saying that I had only taken 2 the night before and was doing fine, this was irrelevant, because I had taken 6 the day before that. Psychologically, though, it was easier for me to get off of it, although it made me tired, because I did not have a real euphoria from it like the hydros had given me.

    Be careful!! I need to ******** some more drivers and stuff, but if I have time, I'll check in later.

    luv, rosie

     
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