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    Old 06-23-2005, 09:43 AM   #31
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    Thumbs up Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Hi Kimbee!

    I have a suggestion, since you are anxious about going down to 2 mgs. Why not go down to 3.5 mgs and THEN, 3 mgs. and then, 2.5 and finally, you will be at 2 mgs. Stay at each dose for about 3 days, this is what I did, with no problems all the way down to .01 mgs. Take as long as you need, this is NOT a race!


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    Old 06-23-2005, 08:05 PM   #32
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Twinnlynn, I am so very happy that you are doing so well! That is wonderful news. I am so sorry to hear about your dog, I too am a animal lover, I have a chihuahuh (SP?) and a doberman, they are my life. I cant imagine life without them. How long have you been on the sub? I agree it was a life saver for me I dont know if I could have made it with out the sub. You sound great, how is your twin doing? I hope she is doing well also. It has been 2 years for me and I honestly feel like I am ready! B ut I am a little scared. Done with drugs thanks so much for your advice, I did not think of tring 3mgs How on earth would you cut that? I was wondering what kind of feeling am I going to feel when I get down to pieces? I really want off by the end of the year. I am in no hurry I have plenty of sub. Do you guys know of any supplements to take for energy? That is the only thing I am having a difficult time with? It is so good to hear from you guys, I didnt know if anyone was left, there are soooo many new posters. Hang in there guys I just know we can do it!! I will always acredit the sub for saving me life and making me the person I used to be. Bless you all!

     
    Old 06-23-2005, 10:09 PM   #33
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    You and I in the same boat kimbee. Been almost 2 years for me as well... I am decreasing very slowly and I feel ok for now. There is an energy suppliment pill that is posted here somewhere but I honestly cannot remember which thread it is.. I will try to find it and get back to you!

     
    Old 06-24-2005, 12:31 AM   #34
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Hello....Kimbee......
    Regarding your question on how to cut a stiny piece off your sub. I use very, tiny suture scissors. I think cuticle scissors might work. Or, really, any type of scissors with a thin blade. If you have an 8 mg. tab, you would cut it into "fourths", this would be 2mgs., if you cut one of these "fourths" into four pieces, that would be .05 mgs per piece. I take Subutex, which comes in a 2 mg. tab, so it has been easier to cut the pieces tinier. They have pill cutters at the drug store, but I haven't tried one. Good Luck, I'm sure you will do fine. No rush on this, it's too important.

    I also have a chronic depression, and the sub definitely helps that. I do take an anti depressant, but I feel the sub works much better and fast. I have no knowlege though as to whether any studies have been done on the safety and effectiveness of this medication used for depression. The evidence is mostly anecdotal. Next time I see my doc, I will ask him about this.

    Good Night All!!

     
    Old 06-24-2005, 12:46 AM   #35
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Suboxone also comes in a 2mg tab but I am DEFINATELY NOT to the point where I can say I use the cuticle scissors! I just downsized from 8mg's to 2mg tabs so I hope this works! I definately would not be this upbeat if it werent for you guys/girls on this site! Thanks for all of the positive feedback ALL! Good luck to ALL!

     
    Old 06-24-2005, 04:12 AM   #36
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    How are you...Wow..nice to have you around..
    please..don't be worried..about..the drop from 4-2 mgs..thats the easy one..you can go to 3 mgs..etc..its still plenty..
    even 1 mgs..not so bad..and im a baby.
    im sneezy this morning..
    We were all saved by sub..no matter what im dealing w/ now..its nothing compared to being in active addiction..and tell me..have our lives changed during this process...YES!!!
    Twin..im so sorry about your lovely lil one..Celeste..how are you doing..i miss you.i got a wild migraine this am..too-
    the weaning down on sub-i found to be easy to deal w/-i would be nervous about each dosage change-but id then be pleasantly surprised..
    Love you all...
    ggrl

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    Old 06-24-2005, 07:42 AM   #37
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    Thumbs up Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Well....back to the topic of drugs (!)......I just want to tell Tony that I was so pleased to read that the people on this board had made him feel so much better about his plans. When my sister and I first came here...in January 2004....we knew we were not yet ready to give up my "happy" pills. But we kept on reading and reading...and eventually the "spirit" of everyone here brought us around to realizing that the drugs had long ago ceased to do anything but bring our lives to a halt. And after months of encouragement from the wonderful people here, we finally found a Subutex doctor. And, now, for the first time in so many, many years.....we can honestly "feel" things again. And, that horror of watching ourselves self-destruct year after year is gone.

    We need more old hands to point others in the right direction. I'm sure Goddess is exhausted from doing her share. No matter how busy (or 'down') she is....she always manages to lend an ear...and a hand.

    hugs to all, Lynn :-)

    Last edited by Administrator; 07-18-2011 at 10:29 AM.

     
    Old 07-02-2005, 05:36 AM   #38
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Hi, ya...Lynn...and all!

    I've been really busy with my pet sitting business. The holiday and all. It is either feast or famine and when it's feast, you're on a 24/7 schedule. Everyday this week, I had between 7 and 8 visits to make a day.

    I have to tell you, I was down to my last 1mg. of subutex. I called my doc and he was ON VACATION! Fortunately, since he is retiring in August, the new young woman doc who is replacing him, just became certified as an addictionologist too. So, today I saw her. She absolutely agrees with many of us that we are guinea pigs for this treatment. I was honest with ther and told her that if I stop, after a few days I feel bad and my chronic depression creeps back. She feels that there is nothing wrong with taking it daily once you have tapered as small as you can, frankly, this is what I am going to do. I take between 0.2 and 0.3 mgs per day and feel fine. So, after some really stressfull things in my life cool down a bit (empty nest syndrome), planning a big graduation party, caring for my 81 yr. old dad. Then, I may try again. The doctor told me that sub does absolutely no damage to your body and I can vouch for myself that it saved my life and sanity. So, I am just going to coast on the sub for a bit longer, perhaps forever, if that's what it takes.

    Happy Fourth of July....I hope everyone has a Flag out!! I bought two for a dollar and have them on my side mirrors on my white ford van (LOL), I just wish this terrible war would be over. I hate to say this, but if my Emily were a boy, I would probably take her to Canada. This is just not a war we should be fighting in. Next time a bunch of Neo Cons decide to attack a country for a made up reason (THERE WAS AND IS, NO CONNECTION BETWEEN IRAQ AND 911) That either they themseves, who as you may have noticed have never actually fought in a war. Or, perhaps their own children, should go, as an example. Sorry, I fell for the war in the beginning. I remember the films of "mushroom clouds" and hiding under my desk, just in case. But, I have since researched and read everything I could, in addition to having an Iraq woman pen pal. It is hall for them over there. She said, they are basically, just trying to keep each other alive as the insurgents are now using very sophisticated car bombs and they are training more and more people every day, who then intend to leave Iraq and carry what they have learned to other countries. I am scared to death...but powerless


    Sorry to rant, just my opinion......I just know too many families in Michigan who have their kids their. Eighteen year olds, who signed up for The Guard, in case we had a bad tornado or flood or heaven forbid a race riot like in the 60's.

    Pray for them every day, especially on July 4th. Independence Day

    Bye

     
    Old 07-02-2005, 07:34 AM   #39
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Hi, DWD! :-)

    Sounds like your pet business sure keeps you busy! A woman in my apartment building does both "sitting" and training--at one point you would see dozens and dozens of dogs, of every size and shape, traveling up and down all day and every day in our elevator...until the landlord stepped in and said "TOO MUCH!" :-) She now runs the bulk of her business in an outside office! (I, of course, had absolutely no objections to ascending and descending with such combos as three mastiffs and a Chihuahua--but some of my neighbours.....) LOL!

    Still miss my little Celeste so much...and I always will. Theo does his best, though, to entertain me. :-)

    My addictionologist says exactly what your new one did. I met with my doctor last week--and we talked about my depression being so much less since Subutex--and how my head feels so much "clearer" and my mind less weighted-down. It's not at all a "high" of any sort--just a feeling of being more "receptive" to life. So hard to explain! Anyway, she agrees that, although Sub is still being researched....there is nothing that has shown it to be harmful--in spite of the fact that withdrawal from it needs to be taken slowly. And she sees no reason why I should not take a small maintenance level if that is the difference between livng with my low-grade depressions....and enjoying a fuller life. A lot of her research has involved Sub....and she is NOT making any money from me (!)--so I respect her training...and her judgment.

    Re. your view of our little overseas jaunt......I am with you 100 percent. You have verbalized my exact sentiments. My sadness at the deaths on both sides results in great frustration at not being able to make a difference. :-( All these lives.....

    It is so quiet today here in Manhattan--everyone's fled for the holiday! This is the PERFECT time to enjoy the city--when no one's around! :-) I'm going to wake up my lazy Theo, drag him out from under the bed...and take him down to the river.

    Congrats on your daughter's graduation--which I know is hard for you, seeing her stretch her wings so soon! :-) And...I know how tough it is caring for an aging parent (all those emotions you go through--such love--and such frustration!!) :-)

    tale care and have a bang-up 4th!!, Lynn :-)

     
    Old 07-02-2005, 08:29 AM   #40
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Suboxone and other pharmaceutical opiates are perhaps better than street drugs, but the resulting addiction is the same. My experience has been that there is no true Recovery until one is clean and sober. Constant drug use, even with no apparent euphoria, blocks at a minimum spiritual development.

    That said, DWD I think you have done a great job tapering off, as have others who have posted here. Personally, I would advise against the crutch of suboxone for any longer than two weeks to detox, because beyond that period it causes its own addiction, as you all have found out most painfully.

    As far as using NalTREXone (brand name: TREXAN in the U.S. to detox, this is the medication that is a pure opiate antagonist. In fact, part of the contents of Suboxone are already Naltrexone. Naltrexone has a half life such that it works in the body for up to 48 hours. What it does is tightly bind to the opiate receptors and kick off any opiates that might be present in the CNS.

    In practical terms, for a clean addict, this guards against relapse. Once Naltrexone takes hold ingesting an opiate will have no effect. For example, injecting heroin would be the same as injecting plain water - nothing would happen at all.

    Now, taking Naltrexone while opiates are in the system will throw the addict into instant detox. In fact, this is what is given to addicts in rapid detox centers - naltrexone.

    During this period the addicts goes through hell. One or two weeks of withdrawals are combined into 12 - 24 hours. It is a shortcut, but a painful one. This is why many patients are kept medicated with drugs such as valium or even kept unconscious during rapid detox.

    So, to answer your specific question, since you are taking Suboxone you are already getting a small amount of Natrexone. Since your dose is already so low, I would recommend kicking Cold Turkey. You could go on like this for years, and from past observations of others more than likely your dose will end up increasing if you stay on. I already noticed that in your early posts you mention you were down to 0.2mg, then mentioned 0.1 to 0.2mg, and your latest post - 0.2 - 0.3mg. Do not kid yourself. Suboxone is a wolf in sheep's clothing and very hard to get off once you have been on it for any length of time.

    The question is, do you wish to remain an addict for life, or do you really want to get clean? If your willingness is there, getting off will be difficult, but quite possible. To stay off, you will need some sort of Recovery Program to fill the void that was occupied with drugs, such as Twelve Step meetings or Smart Recovery.

    There are all shades of Recovery and I do not mean to imply that I have all the answers. But in my experience there is no true Recovery until one is clean and sober, and use of any drug in the long term leads to increased use and almost always a return to the original drug of choice.

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    Old 07-02-2005, 12:12 PM   #41
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Not meant to be a debate. This is my experience only. But, in general, people who are still on drugs will fight for the right to keep taking them and say it is okay. It is not.

    Even psychotropic drugs such as for depression are meant to be taken only for periods in one's life, unless there is a marked chemical imbalance. In those cases, the brain is deficient in some substance and an attempt to make that brain closer to a "normal" one is made through drugs. For example, with lithium. In other words, the brains of people with chemical imbalances need drugs simply to function normally, but even there drugs should be prescribed only with caution and not for long periods of time unless there is no other option.

    Your other statement about aspirin and vitamin C being mind altering is not correct. Also, Stanton Peele's approach is similar to that of Smart Recovery, which is an alternative to the 12-Step disease model. But Mr. Peele also advocates abstinence.

    But taking Prozac as opposed to say, modifying diet and taking exercising for cases of mild depression with no organic brain disorder IS very wrong and leads to more problems in the long run.

    As William S. Burroughs put it, "Whether you shoot it sniff it smoke it or shove it up your a** the result is the same: addiction."

    Last edited by CromeYellow; 07-02-2005 at 12:22 PM.

     
    Old 07-02-2005, 09:43 PM   #42
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    happy 4th to all! Have a good one and be careful w/the fireworks...
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    Old 07-06-2005, 06:30 PM   #43
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Hi Lynn!
    Thanks for all of your positive and encouraging words. I really feel that these boards, for me, substitute for the "center of myself", that so many find in the twelve step program. This is so much more "personal" for me. I had tried an outpatient program that stressed the twelve steps and for me, it was too difficult to relate to those who were there because of court orders and there was not one other person addicted to prescription drugs. It was either alcohol or crack. They had sold their bodies and given up their families for the drug. I felt depressed as I listened to them and they seemed to really love talking about how low they got. I needed a more positive motivation with support from others who can identify with me. I have found that here with all of you!

    We Love New York!!


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    Old 07-07-2005, 05:11 AM   #44
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Hi Linda-
    how are you?
    i was reading an article on suboxone-alot of interesting facts are surfacing now that the treatment has been available for 2 yrs..
    There was a poll done-for those on maitainence-and 70% percent have trouble getting off-the medication.
    Patients are now seeking assistance-i.e.-detox,etc to come off-
    The slow taper is the best way off-but even so-its still hard..makes sense..hey-its tough getting off certain ADs/mood stabilisers..
    And benzos..almost impossible-for many people..including one of my family members-who has been thru several detoxs to get off klonipin.
    So- i guess my point is..doing the long extended taper-is the best way out-and for those-seeking a quick detox-sub is your med..
    but if your going for maitainence-it should be reserved for those w/ long term habits..
    Hope you had a nice 4th..
    ggrl

     
    Old 07-07-2005, 09:56 AM   #45
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    Re: Suboxone tapering........

    Hey there, just want to congradulate you for doing so well. But I do have a question. This is only my second day off everything and I am trying to do it c/t, but I am scared to death. What is a sub? I mean im sure its something to help ween you off, but I just don't know anything about this. And I don't have a doctor so Im just not to sure if I can do this on my own. Would you advise that I go to a doc? I have to kick these painkillers, they are ruining my life and my family. I have tried before to stop taking them and I get the restless legs, and you are right it is so aggravating. I am usually up all night crying. I wish you all the best of luck, and hink you are very brave..


    Sunny

     
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