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    Old 09-23-2005, 10:39 AM   #1
    TrampyG
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    Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    I've posted here before but not in a while. I know there are a lot of threads about Sub but I also know that all situations are different and wanted some thoughts on my position here.

    I took hydro for about 4 years or so -- pretty much on the whole time -- approx. 100mg/day but in the pasy 2 years I have been on sub with cheating every 1-2 months with hydro. I've now been off hydro for a few weeks completely and have brought my sub down to about 2-3mg/day in the past 4 days.

    I truly hope that this is it for me. I have always felt like if I can get off the sub once and for all -- mind you it has been almost 2 years between 6-12 mg/day -- I can really take a big step forward emotionally and feel a sense of accomplishment and again feel good about myself; something I've not felt in a long time.

    Anyhow, just getting down to 2-3mg of the sub (Subutex not Suboxone) has been a challenge.

    My psych. and I decided that Nov. 1st would be my clean date. Meaning I have about 6 weeks to get from my current state of 2-3 mg sub to nothing. Having pretty quickly (maybe too quickly) gone from about 6-8mg sub down to 2-3 has, like I said, been pretty tough, but I am trying to be strong and stick it out.

    I take Xanax and/or Ambien to sleep. And I have Clonidine, too, if I need it but have not tried it.

    How would you guys suggest I do this -- that is, getting from my 2-3mg Subutex off in the next month or so? Turkey? Week at 3, week at 2, week at 1, then off? Go in .5 mg steps?

    I just don't know how to best do this and am looking for some advice from the group.

    Thanks.

    --Trampy.

     
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    Old 09-24-2005, 05:14 AM   #2
    goddessgrl65
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    Hi Trampy..
    im in the same boat..now down to .025 mgs.
    i got about a week/two-to taper..to .012..and thats it.
    been on 2 yrs too.
    Going from 3 mgs to 1 mgs-was more mental than physical-although there is physical adjustment time..minor w/d symptoms..
    keep breaking lil pieces off..till you get to 1 mgs.
    from there-it has been suggested to me-to continue tapering to crumbs..
    Im fine.. on .025-right now..
    im nervous about coming off-but-my dr. is insisting..and i guess its that time!!
    hope this helps a bit-
    i check in usually every morning..so if i help in anyway..
    ggrl

     
    Old 09-25-2005, 04:53 AM   #3
    goddessgrl65
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    bad morning..im ill-gone down to .12 mgs..
    how are ya..trampy?
    ggrl

     
    Old 09-25-2005, 06:07 PM   #4
    jewel1060
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    hi trampy, & ggrl,

    tapering is tough - I just tapered down to 1mg over the past 2 days - not easy at all ( my legs feel like lead weights are in them) Anyone else feel that when they are tapering? Ggrl - what are your symptoms , now that you went down to .12 and how long were you on .25? Also how do you cut it that small? Its hard enough to cut it to .50 for me. I 've tried to find a pillcutter with a magnifying glass as recomended by royalsecret. Goodluck guys - hang tough we are all in this together - and I will continue to check in and help however I can.

     
    Old 09-26-2005, 04:10 AM   #5
    goddessgrl65
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    Oh man..jewel..how are ya..
    yeah..i dunno-i took a fleck of sub the last couple days..im totally illin'..i got a razor..tiny lil pieces..i know it wasn't a .025..but yes..it was miniscule..
    stomach..and legs..weepy eyes..cough..typical w/d symptoms..
    esp..the heavy legs-but by the early evening..i kind of planed off.
    we gotta stick together..
    any news jewel..good to hear from you..
    ((hugs)))
    ggrl

     
    Old 09-26-2005, 04:10 AM   #6
    goddessgrl65
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    Oh man..jewel..how are ya..
    yeah..i dunno-i took a fleck of sub the last couple days..im totally illin'..i got a razor..tiny lil pieces..i know it wasn't a .025..but yes..it was miniscule..
    stomach..and legs..weepy eyes..cough..typical w/d symptoms..
    esp..the heavy legs-but by the early evening..i kind of planed off.
    we gotta stick together..
    any news jewel..good to hear from you..
    ((hugs)))
    ggrl

     
    Old 09-26-2005, 09:17 AM   #7
    TrampyG
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    Hey guys -- thanks for sharing your stories. I was out for the weekend so could not post. Sis got married. Anyhow, down to 1mg successfully yesterday. Took 0.2 mg clonidine around 9pm to sleep along with 5mg Ambien. Slept fine. Hardest part for me right now is working. I am just playing video games and surfing. Cannot concentrate worth a sh**. I am not in great pain, do not have stomach problems, etc. but very much have that blah feeling that just makes me want to sit and watch TV or do something else worthless. Not in a bad mood particularly but not a good one. Just pretty numb -- I think the Clonidine is partially to blame.

    Smoked a bunch of dope on Sat. night and that helped quite a bit with the w/ds. But that is not exactly a daily solution (I don't do it much) particularly cuz I work in a pretty serious job.

    Getting harder every day, though, not easier. I guess coming down pretty quickly on the sub is tough but I am impatient and want it to be over.

    How long does this last? I have heard 21 days, 12 days, and various other estimates.

    And do people think I should adjust to 1mg or just keep forcing myself down to 0.75, 0.5, etc.? Whaddya think?

    Thanks a lot. Great place to come and vent and talk. Goddess -- what's your plan and how are you feeling today? PM me if you want or post here.

     
    Old 09-26-2005, 12:33 PM   #8
    jewel1060
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    ggrl,

    I'm sorry your not feeling well, I have the same symptoms on 1mg a day which is where I'm at now. I ordered the nutracleanse on sparks recommendation - hoping it will get me through this taper and hopefully off - my doc doesnt do maintenance anyway - just detox so I have no choice. I'm on this sub since July 15, tried once to come off after 2wks like everyone recommends but went through severe w/d's & went back on and now with my second addiction doc. Let me know how you are doing and I really hope you start to feel better - do you have to go to work? Also do you find that you feel this way every time you taper down? Do you think you will adjust to this dose like you did the .025 - didnt that adjustment give you a problem as well? I read so much I forget everyone's taper schedule - so please forgive me if I repeat myself. Hang in there - I know it sucks - I'll check back later
    jewel p.s to trampy, I am tryin the taper as you are and still havent stabalized on 1 mg, I've read of someone staying on 1 mg for 10 days and then going down to .50 then .25. - I hope this helped

    Last edited by jewel1060; 09-26-2005 at 12:38 PM.

     
    Old 09-27-2005, 05:10 AM   #9
    goddessgrl65
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    Hi trampy/jewel..
    Hope you had a good weekend..congrads to your sister!!!
    g'mornin..im actually doing better today..woke up less anxious..yesterday was hard..but each dosage change has its adjustment period..and although it took 2/3 days of yuck..im better..
    I do believe coming down to the lowest amount -makes the detox easier..but there is that auto-taper theory..that makes sense..that it takes 3/more days due to the bupe hanging on to the receptors.
    But like any taper..its gotta ultimately make it easier once you stop..the lowest amount is the amount your detoxing from.
    Sorry if im repeating myself too-i am kinda foggy..i can't hit the coffee as hard cos my stomach.
    We can do this..i feel more positive again-im up/down but i owe this board-so much..the support here has been the differance..
    so-tell me about nutraclense cos ill def get some.
    love to all..
    ggrl

     
    Old 09-27-2005, 05:58 AM   #10
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    heyggrl,

    I am so glad you are feeling better . I am on day 4 of 1mg and feel like crap.
    Very weak, stomach,legs heavy , etc. Hoping it gets better without me having to go up. Its great to see you doing better and I will let you know for sure about the nutracleanse. Check in with us later ((hugs)) to all

     
    Old 10-01-2005, 01:22 AM   #11
    Royalsecret
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    Hi Jewel, GGRL, and TrampyG! WOW!!! You guys are doing it - Way to go!

    I believe from Ed's experinence that when you are able to stabilize at 1 mg - that is, feel 'normal' again at 1 mg - then the worst may be over. You three are doing so great, please hang in there! Ed will have been off the sub for two months on October 10th and he's feeling great! He says that when he looks back at his sub taper he was very depressed, he knew he was depressed each time he tapered, but he didn't realize until just recently that the 'blah' feeling he had - his words and I see that you guys are using the exact same word - was in fact depression from the sub. He's feeling really great now, has been back to work for about a month. So HANG IN THERE - there is a pot of gold at the end of the sub taper rainbow!!!

    I copied Ed's taper schedule below with some info along with it that I like to share with people who are going thru the same thing and hungry for all information they can find - especially the one's with a happy sub ending!!!! Please keep posting here and sharing how you are feeling and doing - so the next group of people can learn from your experience. By that time, you three will be OFF the sub and feeling GREAT!!!! Love to you all! RoyalSecret

    Here is Ed's Subutex taper schedule. It has worked very well for him. Please keep in mind that while he was tapering he was off work so he was able to go thru a 'bad day' while he was tapering without having to worry about working. If he had to be at work during the taper process, he would have done it more slowly.

    We believe that the key to a successful sub taper is to taper down very low, and take the time to stabilize at each dose before tapering again. Sub is extremely POWERFUL and to be respected. Also, be prepared to feel each taper a day or two, and just remember that once you stabilize you will feel better again, until the next taper.

    Ed said the worst he felt when he was 'feeling' the taper was depression, anxiety, and a restless feeling where he couldn't get comfortable in his own skin.

    Just remember that it's normal to feel this way for a day or two when you are tapering - Ed usually felt this way on day 2 or day 3 of each taper. We feel it is so important to give yourself time to stabilize each time you taper, then a day or two to enjoy feeling 'stabilized' before you taper down again. If you don't, and you taper too fast, you can find yourself feeling depressed, anxious, etc., the entire time you are on sub - which can lead to relapsing.

    Ed felt that it definitely got harder for him once he got down to 1 mg - that is why he stayed at the 1 mg dose for 10 days.

    2 days at 24 mg
    5 days at 16 mg
    5 days at 12 mg
    4 days at 8 mg
    5 days at 6 mg
    4 days at 4 mg
    3 days at 3 mg
    10 days at 1 mg
    3 days at .50 mg
    3 days at .25mg
    3 days at .12

    Ed's last day of Subutex was on August 9th. He tried to stop the sub when he was day 1 at .25 but when he got to the 30 hour mark of no sub, he started having bad w/d's - nothing like the oxycontin w/d's, but bad enough that he said he wanted to taper down even more.

    He tapered for another week and when he stopped at .12 we thought for sure that he would go thru 4-5 days of w/d's...but he didn't! He slept that first night just fine and that awful depressed restless feeling filled with anxiety and heebie jeebies never came! He must have had already gone thru that during his previous tapers.


    Again, HANG IN THERE - YOU ARE ALMOST FREE!! RS

     
    Old 10-01-2005, 04:39 AM   #12
    goddessgrl65
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    Royal..
    Thank you so much for checking in..Eds story is a blessing for all of us-coming off sub..
    ive been on far too long..i know this now..but really..it did change my life..
    im really ill every morning..
    i have nearly zero left..its time.
    obviously its mental..but certainly physical..holding on-for a couple of important family commitments.
    then its over.
    im scared..but its gotta be..its my depression issues im fearful of the most..
    God bless you/ed..
    thank you for sharing so much w/ all of us..
    ggrl

     
    Old 10-01-2005, 11:05 PM   #13
    Royalsecret
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    Hi ggrl!

    I am so very proud of you!! You say you are down to .12 mg a day. I know that you are in the middle of that god-awful sub taper depression, and anxiety but the good news is that there is a really good chance that once you stop the sub your body will have already gone thru the worst of it and you won't go thru any really bad w/d's at all and in a couple of weeks after that the depression will be a distant memory!!!!!

    I know how scarey that 'unknown' is, and 'what if' it's not like that for me, etc., but you sound so focused, all three of you do, that even if it's a tad harder, or a tad easier, you three are going to make it!!!

    I can't wait for the next few months - I'll be reading about how wonderful you three are feeling, how much more energy you have, how amazing life is when your thoughts no longer revolve around taking pills to feel normal anymore - start dreaming about that becaue you are SOOOOO close to being there it's awesome! xoxoxox RS

     
    Old 10-02-2005, 04:37 AM   #14
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    Hi all..
    Thanxs Royal..yes..its so true.Im so anxious/depressed..walking around is hard..i get really tired..BUT!!!!I got to be 100% honest..I CAN DO THIS!!
    Im scared..im wiggy..but im gonna make it thru..
    And you Miss royal..are such a supportive loving person..Here your husband Ed has made it thru..but you are still out there helping others..
    I really appreciate it..
    I have made it down to a chip..this a.m. it was more like a .025 piece..i was too tired to cut it..but i will cut the remaining pill-in a bunch of pieces.
    i don't think i could titrate down anymore than i have unless i crushed it.
    My stomach is a mess..but im right there..and theres no way..but out.
    Jewel..Trampy..everyone coming off-lets hang in and make it thru..
    peace/love to all..
    ggrl

     
    Old 10-02-2005, 07:21 AM   #15
    jewel1060
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    Re: Sub Detox/WD/Taper

    hey royal,ggrl, trampy,

    Hi - First miss royal you are the greatest - looking out for us and motivating us - you have no idea how important that is - thank you- my doctor wants me to go from 1 mg to 1mg every other day starting Tuesday, I know I cant.
    Should I just do .050 on Tues?
    Ggrl, You are doing great - even though you dont feel great - I hang on your every word and I know that feeling of "feeling like you cant walk" Have you tried l-tyrosine ( part of the opiate detox recipe)? I just bought it yest. You are supposed to take with vitamin b6 and its supposed to help. I am not allowed to talk on this board about the other product that spark mentioned, but I havent received that either ( I hope that was ok to say) ggrl, I hope I didnt lose you with my rambling. Maybe the detox recipe thats on this board may help you - if you cant find let me know & I'll look it up for you. You are probably going through the worst now being down as low as you are.
    check back with us later and once again THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR HELPING US GET BETTER!!!!!!!!!!--p.S. rOYAL - STORIES LIKE YOURS KEEP US GOING -DAY BY DAY-

     
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