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  • Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?



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    Old 07-03-2007, 06:30 AM   #16
    reachout
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    Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

    Sweet Marcia

    It would take a heck of a lot more than your post to offned me! Your words in all your posts are just to sincere and caring to ever take offense!

    Actually, I think we are agreeing here. I do not see Patty as an addict in the truest sense. I see her very much as myself... someone who is displaying adictive behaviour after long term use of opiates for pain. Unlike your son's anti-rejection meds, use of opiates do indeed mandate ever-incresaing dosages to do the same job over exteneded use. Od course we become dependent! However, whether we use opiates for chronic pain or addiction need, eventually we will all end up in the same boat... the opiates will control our lives.

    Believe me, I am no martyr when it comes to pain! However, my experience says that less of an opiate is not going to do the pain relief job that increasing amounts do. the dosages just have to be upped over time or changed to stronger meds to keep attaining the exact same pain relief. And this is where the huge problems began for me. The higher, stronger, longer use leads to medical issues and emotional issues like depression. Leads to a lack of functioning. I just can not see any way around it. I know that some doctors employ "med vacations, " but for ME that is just not an option. I do strongly believe that somewhere along the line the use of opiate meds for chronic pain does truly lead to self medication. I think the emotional side effects of long twerm use leads to chronic depression and we begin to medicate more to relieve the depression than the pain. And thus begins the addictive behavior. I think the truer addict begins to self medicate right from the get-go for emotional pain.

    Patty, I do not know for sure what your plan should be. Total withdrawal or controlled use. This is something you and your doctor must decide. I can best share only my journey and along with it some of the information I have garnered.

    As you can see in black and white here, even good friends on the board can difffer in opinions! We each must learn to gather the information that is most useful to us. Do not let differences of opinions frighten you. the great thing about the anonymity of this site is that it allows total honesty as we each perceive it. I preach from my pulpit because of my own experiences. Marcia preaches from hers because of her life experiences. Both of us, however, look forward to the day that you can preach from your own pulpit whatever your choices may be. Smiles.

    Peace All
    reach

     
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    Old 07-03-2007, 07:49 PM   #17
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    Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

    Hi Marcia, Reach
    I can understand both points of view thankyou...As I have said previously I am virtually doing this on my own. I rang my GP earlier this morning and was left hanging so I hang up, He really has no idea- like on Saturday when he told me to drop to 5mg Oxycontin twice a Day what from the previous dose that was around 25mg Daily plus added condeine etc.... I am now taking 5mg Oxycontin SR three times a day plus more codeine than I should- I still have this rotten headache, and muscles aching etc. I was asking for some guidance whether maybe I should be taking Oxycontin 10mg Twice a day- surely dropping to this dose should cause less discomfort-I don't know...I don't need to do this in a Marathon- slow tapering... honestly I am so close to going back to taking the endone 4x daily this headache is driving me nuts. Please lets not debate at this point whether I have an addiction or dependency I just need some practical advice/support at this point thankyou.
    Love Patty62

     
    Old 07-03-2007, 07:55 PM   #18
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    Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

    HI
    Sorry I meant to say this is the previous post-isn't there suppose to be a new "patch"- I know the GP gave me a piece paper (last week) with it's name but I have lost it- it comes in varying doses - i.e. 5, 10, 20mg, I think it suppose to work on the principle of constant slow release much like some of the HRT patches. Has anyone heard of this, know about it...success etc?
    Take care
    Patty62

     
    Old 07-03-2007, 08:07 PM   #19
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    Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

    Hi Patty

    Having done two seperate tapers now, I do agree that the cut the doctor had you made is too steep for the plan you seem to have in mind. I think the three dose is keeping the withdrawals at bay somewhat because you have some in your system actively at all times. Are you taking it 3 times in a 24 hour day, or 3 times in the period from wake-up until bedtime? If it is in the wake-up to bedtime framework and if f you can make the stretch to just twice a day on tapering type of plan, I personally would do the 10 milligram dose and try to stabalize there for a good week or so.

    I don't have a true handle on tapering off Oxycontin and its extended release properties because I had stopped using that long ago. I tapered off short acting oxycodone and worked from 4-5 doses a day downward, cutting the doses as well as the amounts little by little. The rule of thumb in a long term taper is 5%-10% cut each time. It seems that tapering is not the doctor's forte and that is not at all unusual. Just be upfront with the doctor and let him know that the plan needs adjusting because it is too fast and hard. I did this with my doctor and he was very receptive. His goal was that my usage just keep going down steadily and that I never upped it after a cut. Once we agreed to much smaller cuts, it all worked out. It is important to be totally upfront with doctor about this so that you do not run into a shortage of your scripts. A doctor will become angry if we make an agrement and then want to change it withoout his imput and guidance, you know.

    The headaches plagued me throughout the tapers, but have now passed. the muscle aches lasted after the taper froj opiates was completed, but ice packs, warm baths and aspirin will bring enough relief to endure them.

    Wishing you well. It is hard, but certainly doable.
    reach

     
    Old 07-03-2007, 08:12 PM   #20
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    Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

    Patty
    I am not sure of what kind of patches you are referring to in your post. You mean pain patches like fentynal patches? They are pretty common here in the states. Perhaps someone here or on the Pain Management Board will be more famililiar if it is a new product out. I used duragesic patches a long time ago... put on the skin and pain meds released slowly. They really made me feel awful and I was off thenm almost as soon as I went on them.
    reach

     
    Old 07-04-2007, 04:04 AM   #21
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    Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

    HI Reach
    Thankyou for your answer, - it is interesting what you say about tapering from a short-term Opiate. I read a post (somehow) when I first came to this board that was dated 2003. I can't remember who the person was but I can remember them warning not to withdraw/taper from a Oxyconting SR. I had thought myself if I was still on the Endone 20mg daily I could reduce in 2.5mg doses over several months....you can't do this with Oxycontin SR- certaintly something to think about.
    Generally I have been taking the doses every eight hours I.e. 6-00am, 2pm, and 10pm etc to the best of my ability. I did finally get hold of the GP this Afternoon told him to reduce 10 mg way too much at once.
    MY head was hurting so much, anyway he has suggested to take 5mg Oxycontin twice daily then the night dose- around 10pm- take 10mg oxycontin SR instead of 5mg so basically he has brought the total dose back up to 20mg daily.. be interesting how I pull up in the morning. Earlier this afternoon I took 38mg condeine and 500mg Tyenol at same time I took the
    afternoon Oxycontin dose-wiped out for 5 hours- really making me think what the ?Condeine/Paracetamol might be doing... I know my GGTP liver emzyme is around 115 (normal is below 50) other liver tests OK though
    Hugs
    Patty62

     
    Old 07-04-2007, 05:24 AM   #22
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    Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

    hey patty,just how long ago was that hepatic panel done on your liver?this could be from a few different things but it really does need to be followed up with a repeat set soon just to see if there is any trend going on with the liver.just precautionary,it is a bit higher than it should be.were your kidney labs done at that same time or recently?it wouldn't hurt to just follow up on bith liver and kidney,they do get affected with tylenol usuage.just some thoughts there.

    honestly patty,i really DO think you need to move onto a doc who really does know what the heck they are doing.no doc should be leaving anything like a taper or even figureing our your very own dosing scehdule up to the patient,espescially with narcotics.there is too much room for trouble down the road,not to mention the fact that you cannot get good coverage for your pain without a good plan set up for you to follow,to the letter.a good pain management doc and clinic i think could just offer you so many other options to try and control your pain that do not involve the use of any narcotics or a combo of modalities and narcotics and other meds like the anti siezures which work much more effectively on nerve related pain.this doc just seems pretty pathetic to me.you also most definitely DO need more structure,accountability and guidelines that a good pain clinic offers you,this would help prevent alot of huge problems including possible addiction from occuring at some point.i ,myself,just could not possibly do my pain management in any other way other than with all the strict guidelines that just come with pain management facilitys.and my contract,which i just happened to have to update yesterday at my PM clinic,along with dropping off my suprise UA.such fun.but it keeps me compliant and that is the key here.accountability to someone and full compliance once your dosing schedule is set in writing.you personally just have to much control and that needs to change to just make things much safer for you,in many ways.

    your headaches cold be coming from a few different things,one of which could be(if you are on generic)the oxycontin.i got the worst dang headaches from anything other than the name brand oxycontin,just horrible side effects that i never get with the name brand OC at all.just one thought.ice packs at the base of my neck and on the forehead really help with some of my headaches that pop in from time to time from my aneurysm,and my really messed up c spine issues.ice can do alot for pain when used for certain pain issues in the right way.

    i just think you really do need to move onto another doc at an actual pain management facility at this point,this doc is just not doing enough for you and in the right way either.you would have alot of other options thru a good PM clinic that you just cannot obtain thru any other type of facility.and the accontability.i rely more on outside or more topical types of pain management than i do on narcotics,and thats the way i would really love to keep it.there are just many other ways to handle pain and pain flares other than upping your narcotic dosage.if i asked for a raise in my OC everytime my pain has decided to up itself over these past few yaers,heck i would be in there every other month.this just forced me to try new and different things to try and manage flares and the progression of many of my pain issues.i have only actually asked for and recieved one 20mg raise in my OC since i was first stabilized on it back in early 04.when things hit the fan with my knee over that summer,i asked to try the TENS unit instead of asking for a raise in my meds.the very first time i felt i really needed a raise.my PM and myself just sat down and tried to map my pain a bit by assessing my best and worst times of day.by doing this,we were able to actually take 20mgs from my normal night dose when my pain is actually at its best just because the posistion is soo much better for many areas that are real nasty when i am up and moble,and we placed that 20mgs at the midday dose and raised that.this really worked out great and i really didn't miss that 20mg part of my night dose at all,and i never actually needed that raise then(ended up definitely needing a raise when i blew the meniscus out the sides in my "already waiting for surgery knee").this is how good pain management should work.they really just try and target the worst of the worst in the best and smartest ways possible while minimizing the overall narcotic taken.this is really what i think would benefit you the most.just ask your current doc for a referral to a good pain management facility and just tell him you just want that oversight and be able to try other options that only they can really offer you.i just really don't think your current doc really has a freaking clue as how to really actually treat chronic pain.you need better guidance here thats all.i hope things will get better soon for you patty.make sure to follow up with that out of range liver enzyme too,and the kidney labs as well.please keep us posted hon,K?Marcia
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    Old 07-04-2007, 11:03 PM   #23
    patty62
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    Re: Is it the Endone/Oxycontin?

    HI Feelbad
    The Hepatic Panel was repeated last week- I saw the GP today I think he said the GGTP was 108.
    Pain Clinics per se in Australia are hard to come by-there are long waits-then the idea is that they put you on something then write to your GP who then manages your pain.
    Many Occupational Psychians see people with pain but usually not ongoing just like a specialist visit -makes recommendation -letter back to GP.
    This is the best of my knowledge I don't think anything has changed in the last couple of years.
    I have been to see the GP this morning-I took the 10mg Oxycontin SR last night at about 10-30pm as told ( at that stage I had said to myself OK `10mg Oxycontin SR twice daily)- I awoke about 5-00am deciding it was too early to take 10mg- I took some Panadeine when I re-woke at 8-45-my head hurt so much I thought darn this I ended up taking 5mg Endone (NO Oxycontin) and panadeine. I had to go and do some food shopping honestly my muscles felt so weak-it was a real chore. So its now nearly 3-30pm I have had no Endone/oxycontin since breakfast-I am trying to get to an Oxycontin 10mg SR twice a day, trying to hang out till tea-time without spinning out; God I don't know what I am doing!! This is crazy
    Patty62

     
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