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    Old 07-02-2007, 03:38 PM   #1
    Sunshinegirl
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    Glass of wine - setback???

    I am about 2.5 months into self detox from vics. I am still not out of the woods in terms of feeling back to "normal." More than anything I am suffering from severe bouts of depression, anxiety and despair. I lost my job 8 months ago, about to lose my house in foreclosure and do not know what the future holds for me, my daughter and 2 dogs. Looking at me, you would probablky never know what I'm going thru. When I leave the house I "pull it all together" and face the world. Sometimes I don't want to come home because it is a place I went thru detox and basically felt like a prisoner and it's a house I'm losing and have no control over because I don't have a job.....

    Anyway..........at this stage of the game, if I have a glass of wine here and there am I setting mysef back???? I actually went out with a girlfriend a couple of weeks ago - had to really push myself to do that......didn't really want to go, but felt the need to be in the "real world." Did feel good initially to be out with the "living." I drank several drinks, but never even felt a buzz because I was so afraid of getting drunk and being hungover the next day. She invited me out again last weekend and I didn't go.

    I feel like, clean and sober means clean and sober. Is that right???? Should I beat myself up if I have a glass of wine or two????? I am an emotional wreck right now.....up and down and sometimes just okay.

    Just looking for some feedback. I've never been thru this before and I feel really lost right now. I don't really have a support system and I am afraid to go to a meeting.

     
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    Old 07-02-2007, 04:38 PM   #2
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    Re: Glass of wine - setback???

    Heya South

    This is an issue for you, I see. It is a hard call, so I can only tell you what my gut reactiopn to your situation is:

    I think for most, this wine would be a bit of a relapse, like playing with fire. And I will tell you why I think you are fitting into the "most people who come off of drugs" category in my mind. It is becuase you are concerned enough to post about it. And it is good that you have posted about it because I do think it is a problem for you. You talked about "not even getting a buzz." To me, in my UNprofessional judgement, the wine represented a buzz to you and there was some sense of disappointment about not being able to allow yourself that buzzed feeling. if you truly were not in some way not looking for a buzz, then why didn't you order a coke or tonic water? Non-alcoholic drinks are so common in bars these days that no one would have thought anything of it.

    Why were you willing to play with fire?

    Maybe look at it another way... what if alcohol is what you were detoxing and recovering from? Would you have chanced taking a percocet or vicoden just to be sociable? My common sense tells me you would not have even considered it.

    I am sorry you are an emotional wreck these days and lord knows how much I understand that. I think that, please forgive my bluntness, but that you are in some way looking for permission from board members to give you permission to drink. Perhaps some will, but I know I can not be one of them. Not because I don't think it is ever in the realm of possibility, but because I think it is an unnecessary and foolish idea to play with. We are not talking about liqour being life-sustaining, but liquor as a social... and probably emotional... crutch.

    Go out among the 'living' again, Sweet South, and enjoy it. Part of recovery is enjoying social occassions! But remember when you first began again to enjoy the beauty of nature and life again... it happened without a drink. There is no reason not to enjoy social occassions the same way.

    With lots of love and support
    reach

    PS And this is not an issue to beat yourself up over.. no, not at all. just recognize the torment your action is causing you and learn what you need to from it for your own health and well-being.

    Last edited by reachout; 07-02-2007 at 04:39 PM.

     
    Old 07-02-2007, 06:00 PM   #3
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    Re: Glass of wine - setback???

    Hey SB !!!

    I never really had a drinking problem myself. but a drug is a drug is a drug. one of the times that i detoxed from opiates. i did just that. i detoxed from optiates. i thought drinking would be ok. you know, it took 9 months, but i went back to opiates, because that is what my body was really wanting, and my defenses were low enough that i allowed that demon back in.
    so, like reach said, you are playing with fire.
    i can really relate to your going through the forclosure and losing your home. this also happened to me. as it is, 6 years later, it was for the best. i wish you all the luck in the world. do you have a plan? somewhere to go?
    i will pray for you and check back.
    much love and many prayers,

    michelle

     
    Old 07-02-2007, 06:13 PM   #4
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    Re: Glass of wine - setback???

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Southbeachsun1 View Post
    I am about 2.5 months into self detox from vics. I am still not out of the woods in terms of feeling back to "normal." More than anything I am suffering from severe bouts of depression, anxiety and despair. I lost my job 8 months ago, about to lose my house in foreclosure and do not know what the future holds for me, my daughter and 2 dogs. Looking at me, you would probablky never know what I'm going thru. When I leave the house I "pull it all together" and face the world. Sometimes I don't want to come home because it is a place I went thru detox and basically felt like a prisoner and it's a house I'm losing and have no control over because I don't have a job.....

    Anyway..........at this stage of the game, if I have a glass of wine here and there am I setting mysef back???? I actually went out with a girlfriend a couple of weeks ago - had to really push myself to do that......didn't really want to go, but felt the need to be in the "real world." Did feel good initially to be out with the "living." I drank several drinks, but never even felt a buzz because I was so afraid of getting drunk and being hungover the next day. She invited me out again last weekend and I didn't go.

    I feel like, clean and sober means clean and sober. Is that right???? Should I beat myself up if I have a glass of wine or two????? I am an emotional wreck right now.....up and down and sometimes just okay.

    Just looking for some feedback. I've never been thru this before and I feel really lost right now. I don't really have a support system and I am afraid to go to a meeting.
    Hi South,

    I'm so sorry that it seems you are in quite a delima over this. It's quite obvious that you are in conflict over what you know is right and wrong when it comes to recovery. I can say that I agree with everything Reach has to say, with the exception of one thing, "it's a hard call". Actually South, it's pretty cut and dry. Are you wanting to quit using drugs for good because you are an addict? You asked if clean and sober meant clean and sober....yes it does. If you are wanting to quit using drugs, you must remember that alcohol is a drug. Period.

    Please understand that when I say all this I know very well what I'm talking about because I am a lifelong addict who did the same thing you are doing. I drank, but not alot. I mostly used a variety of drugs. When I stopped using drugs, I began "only drinking". Because I am an addict, my "only drinking" became "I'm an alcoholic". So everything I have to say to answer your questions comes from alot of 'unwanted' experience and a whole lot of concern and understanding for a fellow addict. Please take all I have to say, which may come off as extremely blunt, as very reliable, but also as someone who has a very deep compassion for anyone enduring what I have. Pure hell.

    I don't believe you've had an actual setback, YET. But you are in the BEGINNINGS of a HUGE setback. I may be talking semantics here, but I want you to re-read your post and look at the words you've used. They are the very words any addict/alcoholic feels/says to justify or reasons they use.
    "Not back to normal...suffering....depression, anxiety, despair.....loss (job,house)...FEAR ("don't know what the future holds)...loss of control ("felt like a prisoner, losing, have no control")....feeling it's a game("at this stage of the gamE)...associating the 'real world' with using and "getting a buzz"...feelings of being 'lost'...emotional wreck...no support system...FEAR("i'm afraid to go to a meeting")

    South, these are the reasons any addict uses. Without hearing the entire story of why/how you began using hydro, I can bet these feelings/words were also in place then and a part of your life.If they weren't, hydro became, quickly, a good source of dealing with these feelings.Quite honestly, your post is riddled with disaster! Remember, I'm not trying to scare you, burst your bubble or be mean, I'm just trying to give you constructive feedback, addict to addict.

    Like I said before, alcohol is a drug. Let's look up the word "drug" in the dictionary...." Something that causes addiction, habituation, or marked change in conciousness.""A substance, other than food, intended to affect the structure or function of the body." Alcohol, as well as hydro both fall into this category wouldn't you say? It's basically just comparing apples to oranges. When you first started using hydro, you probably just did it every now and then or as prescribed and it soon got out of hand. Well alcohol works the same way. It may be that you just drink here and there, but already the reasons you are drinking are addictive behavior and it's only a matter of time until the alcohol replaces the hydro and your here on the board wanting to know how to detox from alcohol. Let me tell you from expert experience here, you do not want to have to detox from alcohol. It's much more painful and harder to quit than hydro, and the w/d's can be deadly.

    I did the very same thing. I had used vicodin for about 6 years, quit taking it and 'just drank' every now and then. The every now and then became every weekend, the every weekend became on weekdays occasionally, which became everyday. If addiction is in place in your life, you are risking recovery from that addiction by using anything that is addictive. Understand? When I fianlly quit drinking, I used xanax, when that was gone I used hydro again. It will always be SOMETHING. Like you said, clean and sober means CLEAN AND SOBER. It means clean and sober from ALL drugs.

    You mentioned you were afraid to go to a meeting. Why? I was afraid too, and I had to ask myself why. What was I afraid of? Ask yourself this. Is it because once you go, it makes your addiction too real, and you really then, have to do something about it? Are you embarassed? All of us feel these things. I can tell you this. South, I've never seen anyone go to a meeting that hasn't slipped, relapsed at least once in their recovery. Don't feel like you are trapped or locked into sobriety. These people are the most understanding individuals you'll ever encounter. They too are, or were in your shoes. And there is nothing they love more than to help a newcomer, and are quite good at it. When I was afraid to go, I had to really think about it and decided I was MORE afraid of staying addicted. Going to a meeting is much like coming to this board, except there are many more seasoned addicts in recovery who can trully guide you through these feelings of fear, loss of control, solitude, and despair you have. Do you have a friend that could go with you? They don't have to be an addict themselves to go with you. They can just go for support on a newcomer, 'open' meeting night. And you don't neccessarily have to go on the newcomer night. Just an 'open' meeting night if you take a friend. But don't let the quality of your life be ruled by fear of going to a meeting. Once I got over that and went to one, I laughed at myself for being afraid because it's such a welcoming place. I think, no I know you will feel the same way!

    Also, alot of people have to go on anti-depressants when they quit drug use. The mind does go through a true chemical depression for many after quitting drugs and becoming sober. The mind's chemicals do not work properly and depression can be a result. Do you have a regular doctor you could ask about anti-depressants? You wouldn't have to neccessarily tell them you're depressed because of w/d's. It may be an option for you. Just keep in mind not to wait too long on this if you do want to try them. They take a couple of months to work, and I'd hate to see you 'feel the need to drink' during that entire time.

    I so hope the best for you South! You have got to have support to do this and you can find that at meetings and, as you know, on this board. But you do need "real life" people supporting you. I hope I helped in some way. Your story sounds so identical to mine.

    With lots of love and support,
    Shay

    Last edited by shay4bliss; 07-02-2007 at 06:23 PM.

     
    Old 07-02-2007, 08:54 PM   #5
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    Re: Glass of wine - setback???

    Hey South...

    Thanks for your post! The honesty is good.

    I think that you already know that it is not a good thing and I agree with everyone else You are playing with fire.

    I have a litlle story for you...

    A few weeks before I was to celebrate four years of no drugs or alcohol. I found my self already in a relapse mode for quite some time before the actual drink. I now can look back and see how I set it all up and justified it all.

    Anyway I was in a resturant/dance bar place with people form work and suddenly the thought just occurred that I should have a drink and then there it was in my hand. A co worker even yanked my chain "what are you doing you are not supposed to be drinking"

    Alcohol was not really my thing but it is a drug and it is also a gateway drug for me....I find it to supressing and boring and I go right for the Methamphetamines......

    In 4 weeks I was using and methamphetamines and dying. I checked into treatment after about 60 days of relapse.....methamphetmines almost killed me in the three weeks I did them. The begining of my relapse was alll drinking untill I got bored with it.

    This is the important thing I want you to hear....

    that night I drank the first drink....I had about 5 or 6....I felt as though I never got a buzzz.....I said to myself "well you did not drive home drunk..you did not get a buzz...you came home alone....you did not make a spectacle of yourself....so your good you got control now"

    What a falseafication in my head that was....60 days later I was on deaths door detoxing--- like I really thought I was going to die and so did the doc's....thought I got a-hold of bad stuff it was that bad.

    I think in your heart of hearts you know the direction that you should be going......
    Take the next right action...Please before your head/disease...becasue that is where it lives in your HEAD....tells you your ok and drinking is ok.

    It is not ok. To come in and out and in and out because you can die! Slow or at the snap of a finger!! It so much easier to just stay. I finally figured that out because of my relapse. Now I have almost 3 years!!

    Please like Reach said do not beat yourself up.....instead Pick yourself up and use this as a learning experience.

    You can do this thing...just because you went with your friend and did drink does not mean that you have lost the tools that were already given to you...

    They are still there..you gotta pick them up and use them now....

    For this addict and alcoholic, I will always be those things but today I am an addict and alcoholic that activley participates in recovery rather than active addiction
    Yes I just went through a detox off pain meds and it is hard to believe that I never abused the meds but I believe it is because everyday I prayed to stay in recovery and I went to the 12 step groups and worked with a sponsor and I still do the 12 steps and let the HP take care of me like right now when I feel icky.....instead of staying in myself I am here on your post reaching out to you because this is part of what keeps me clean...helping another addict
    Hugs Chrissy

     
    Old 07-03-2007, 06:50 AM   #6
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    Re: Glass of wine - setback???

    Thank you all for the words of wisdom!!!! I've never been the kind of person who has a glass of wine every night with dinner or just to have it. However, when I would go out partying I would drink in excess doing shots, doing embarrasing things and having blackouts. My friends would tell me the next day what I did the night before and I could not believe it, I was so embarrassed! It's not like I went out a lot, maybe once or twice a month. The truth is that for the last few years, I haven't really enjoyed the bar/party scene, but it beat sitting on the couch doing nothing, which, when you're depressed is all you can do sometimes.

    I've been on just about every anti-depressant out there and the side effects for me are extremely dibiltating, so I stop taking them. Most recently Zoloft and Prozac. The nausea was horrendous!!!! I cant live like that. I know they say to stay on them until they take effect, but I have to get back to work and how can I work when I want to vomit constantly???

    I need counseling, have no money - what I do have in the bank I cannot spend because I may need it to move and it's probably not enough. I just feel so alone right now. I feel like I've come this far and don't want to do it anymore. Life is too dam* hard. This is how my life's been. Good for a little while, but then BAM, betrayal, loss and more loss. I seem to always find a way out of the hole, but this time is different. I just don't know if I can do it. I've interviewed for several jobs, am actually waiting to hear back from an interview last week and if I dont get that job, honestly.....I just want to give up! I have never had this much trouble getting a job, in fact, I've never had any trouble getting a job. That in and of itself is depressing. I feel unattractive and unworthy of love right now. Like I'm having a breakdown or something.

    I will not take vics ever again. That much I do know. They almost destroyed my life. I've lost just about everything and the detox was horrific. I know what's in store for me if I take any more of them. They represent everything bad in my life right now. No way in hel* will I go there again!!!!!!!!

    There is a meeting at noon today. I think I need to go and at least see what it's all about. My biggest fear is that I will break down and be embarrassed. I'm a person who normally holds my emotions inside and doesn't cry in front of people. I think I really need one on one counseling, but I don't want to take any medications of any sort, other than Ibuprophen for my back pain (which is why I started taking the vics to begin with).

    I don't know what I would've done without this board and the help and support from you guys! Thank you so much! I will check back in later, after the meeting.

     
    Old 07-03-2007, 08:24 AM   #7
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    Re: Glass of wine - setback???

    Hi South,
    I'm so sorry that your having such a difficult time right now. I know how your feeling, and the only advice i can give you is to hang in there. Because things will get better.
    I know that u can't afford one-on-one counseling right now, but if you got involved with meetings, you could find a sponsor. And that sponsor could act as a person to bounce thoughts and feelings off of. The sponsor will be there for you, even if just by phone when your feeling really down.
    I know it's scary to go to mtgs....i was very afraid when i first went. But then i realized that everyone is scared at first. And from what i've experienced, everyone there welcomes you with open arms. Don't be afraid to break down during the mtg., that is something that is common, and looked at as only you opening yourself up...which is what is best in the beginning.
    I may not be an active member in the mtgs. right now, but i have total trust in them, and i know how many lives they have helped save. You NEED the support of "real life" people right now.
    I know how lonely it is to be by yourself.....and it can be devastating if you don't reach out for help. I know that you may feel that your in a hole right now and it seems that there is no way out, but trust these people on this board when they tell you that it does get better. You will be happy again and find peace. But just like anything else in life that's good, you have to work for it. I am so proud of you for facing this addiction and getting clean! You have a lot to be proud of so far and your hard work will pay off.
    Trust your HP that He will take care of you........
    As far as anti-depressents go, i totally understand your frustration with them. I have also tried just about every single one out there, and always come back to Lexapro bcuz it has the least side effects for ME. Have you tried that? Sometimes just a low dose of that can really help. You need not feel bad about possibly needing something like that during this time. You are fresh into recovery, and just like they said "your chemicals are awire right now", and that doesn't mean you will always need meds. for it.....but you also shouldn't suffer constantly when there is help for it.
    I hope you went to a mtg. this afternoon, and if you didn't, then plan on going next time. I'm telling you truthfully that you will not be sorry you went. You will be amazed at the support you get and the comfort you will feel when you get used to it. Change is always hard, even when it's for the better. But change is good, especially when we're stuck in a rut and feeling so low.
    Keep in touch & have a wonderful day. Talk to you soon!

     
    Old 07-03-2007, 08:53 AM   #8
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    Re: Glass of wine - setback???

    Hey South..

    I am so happy to hear that you are going to the meeting!!! Yeah!!!

    Maggie is so right. People always come in and crying is something that happens in meeting all the time for many many reasons.

    I feel in my heart that you will be a bit overwhelemed when you go. A good kind though.

    Those people in meetings and a higher power save my *** when I am in trouble.

    If it was not for a 12 step group I can't tell you where I would be today...probably dead if not physically dead I know for sure that I would be dead inside.

    I am an active member of 12 step meetings. I go almost every day because for the first time in 2 1/2 years I am not in school and I am still on work comp so I got the time.

    For this addict and alcoholic the only thing that has carried me through my injuries surgeries relationships..losses, deaths womens surgeries and detox from the pain meds for my work related injuries. Even though I took them as prescribed I still had a physical detox...anyway what got me through all that was a Higher Power that worked for me - the 12 steps and meeting and the people in those rooms and a lot of action to stay strong and stay clean and sober and spiritual fit through it all.

    I can feel how down you are and I have been in that place...it is a process that we must go through to learn to love ourselves and to learn and believe that we are worthy of all the good blessings in life....this is Hope girl...you will get there...
    Hugs Chrissy

     
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