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nabor4life 08-16-2007 02:05 AM

feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
hey, my name is christopher. i have been on heroin. i wanted to talk with you about a touchy topic: feeling guilty

to finance my habit i did a lot of bad things. i stole from nearly everybody, from my friends, from my family. i sold my aunt and uncles furniture. i told people at the station i forgot about my money and asked them to lend me money. and i broke in a house.

i think of that a lot. like: people who found out somebody broke in their house are feeling very bad. i think they do not feel secure in their own home anymore.

what i did to my aunt and uncle is very very bad. they have alsways treated me as if i was their own son. my parents died in a car accident when i was 12. my aunt and uncle have always been there for me and i treated them that way.

some people tell me i do not need to be sorry, cause i have been sick, but i do not listen to them.

if have got a pal. i told him that something his father did was just not right. he told me "you are bad from the inside. bad from the core. my father may do things that are not right, but you are a bad person. i am afraid of people like you".:(

i am thinking: am i really bad from the core?

i do not think so. at least i hope i am not. i have done bad things. they are not justifiable. that was bad. but am i bad? ill try to tell myself: no. i am clean now. i have been clean for a long time. i did not do bad thing since i have been clean. i try to tell myself i am not a bad person, but i do not believe myself.

i always think of h. it is always on my mind and everything is empty for me and dark.

i will never start with that again, but i have it on my mind. i have the desire for it. i want it. i want to be ther person i used to be and sometimes i feel like i will never be that person again.

i have trouble dealing with that feelings of guilt and longing for my precioussssssss.

i will be okay. i am sure i will be much better if i am on the right antidepressant.

i am afraid to post that topic, but i will do nevertheless. please try not to hurt my feelings. i am not that strong. i know what i did was bad. but i did not use to be bad before.

kdel 08-16-2007 04:06 AM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
Hello Christopher. First let me say congratulations on being clean! I myself do not and have not used heroin but I do know someone who did/does. He has done all the things you have and then some. He ended up in jail for a while also. Now let me stress something-I do not nor did I ever think he was a bad person. Something like heroin gets hold of you and it takes over. You must be a very strong person to have beat this. What you've done in the past is done and you can't change it and anyone who tells you that you are bad to the core is not a friend and certainly not good for the recovery process.

Please stay away from the negative people, it seems you still have family and people that love you, lean on them. These feelings of guilt and suicide will drive you right back to where you were. You can try to make things up to your aunt and uncle by staying clean, getting a job and slowly replacing what you stole-even if they don't want you too it may make you feel better.
Also see a doctor and be honest-there are medications out there to help you. I wish you the best. How long have you been clean?

reachout 08-16-2007 04:41 AM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
Hello Christopher

Well, Friend, I do not think you are bad to the core or there would not be the feelings of guilt. The things done, however, were things that were adult level crimes and wrongs. They have caused adult level pain to those involved and adult level guilt goes along with that.

I have used that word 'adult' a number of times to try and drive home here that adult level amends are needed and adult level thinking about how to get on with life. I believe the desire and continued thinking about heroin comes from a desire to hide from what has been done. Sometimes it seems easier to hide away from our emotions.. I know it did for me for a long time. However, at some point, no matter how hard we try to hide from them, we either are going to face our emotions and pain, deal with it as a reasonable adult, or drop dead for lack of trying.

Get busy followingsome of the suggestions already posted. Reclaim life for yourself. There are many years ahead of you that can be wonderful and productive. This episode in your life, this time of upheaval in your life, does not have to be how your entire life is going to be defined. Hope is there for the taking if you choose to take it.

Good wishes

Perhaps the heroin use began in trying to hide from the pain of the loss of your parents. What a huge pain, indeed, to lose parents at such a tender age. I am sorry that this has happened in your life and sure it has made a huge impact on your life. Grief is behind a lot of drug use. It is a way to hide from dealing with the grief. Now, on top of the grief of the loss of your parents, you have added a big burden of grief caused by the actions. Time to handle the grief, time to make whatever amends that can be made to those wronged, time to be an adult and face life headon.

You can do this. Many of us have and you are no less than any one of us. get into a support group pronto for the heroin use. Narcotics Anonymous or Alcoholics Anonymous... both groups are wonderful for support and people who will understand what is in your mind because they have experienced such similar things. Staying clean can not be done all alone. It takes a lot of support!

I believe some one-on-one counseling will do a world of good. With a therapist, with a church leader, with whoever you can be comfortable sharing with. Antidepressants may well be needed and can be so very helpful. However, even an antidepressant is not a cure all if we do not face the issues in our lives head on and honestly.

The issue with the friend seems to be a big concern for you. I am sure his words hurt. However, Christopher, I am sure your words hurt the friend, also. [U]No[/U] one wants to hear bad remarks about their parents. No one. I am sure you wouldn't want to hear them, would you? I have no doubt that the father of your friend did something not right. However, why did you need to point that out to your friend? I am sure he already knows his dad is not perfect and does not need you to point it out. His words back to you sound angry and defensive. You have asked us to please not hurt your feelings, yet you used words to hurt your friend's feelings.

There are always consequences for our actions in life. Gently I say to you, Christopher, be prepared to expect hurt feelings as you attempt to right some of the wrongs done and apologize to the people hurt. No, it does not feel good when our feelings are hurt... it feels good to no one. Sometimes, however, it is going to happen and we deal with it because that is life. Yes, we want to be able to expect understanding from others, but it is a two way street... we must also be able to give it.

I hope you are able to stop any thoughts of giving up life and focus instead on doing things to fight for a restored life and happiness again. It is very, very possible. Yes, it is.

onyxgates 08-16-2007 06:08 AM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
Your first indication that you are not bad to core is that you feel guilt. People who are bad do not feel guilt. Yes you have done bad things and you need to make amends for those things (but wait until you are strong enough). Keep doing what you are doing. Remember, it will take a long time for you to regain others trust. I am still trying and I quit in December (pills). You just need to worry about you right now and do the right things to keep you sober and on the right track. Take care and remember the day at a time, do unto others as you would have done onto you and finally you have to forgive yourself before others will forgive you.

Take care and keep doing what you are doing.

nabor4life 08-16-2007 04:36 PM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
hey everybody,
i am very tired, so i will not answer all of your questions and comments now. that would take too long. i'll just start, see how much i can write, write the rest later, okay? hope nobody will feel ignored.

i have been clean for 7 1/2 years now. first time i quit was 8 1/2 years ago.
first, when i quit i waited for my life to be just as it used to be before. it did not happen.
when i was in the hospital they put me on trimipramin. when i came out there, i did not like to be on any drug any more. so i asked my psychiatrist to help me lower my dose. later i tapered it.
i ended up feeling very bad. i could not sleep, could not eat. felt like unable to communicate. my doctor put me on doxepin then. i felt better. a year ago i had to quit it, because of health reasons. my trouble sleeping started over again. mostly i do not sleep more than for hours a night. i lost my ability to laugh everything is very difficult for me. communication is very difficult for me. i am getting more and more withdrawn.
i life with my aunt and uncle, but i always sit in my room, hardly ever talk to them more than necessary those days. i wish i could. tomorrow i will try. sometimes i even take my breakfast to my room. in the morning it is worse. i told myself: i have to stop that. it is hurtful for them.

my doctor put m e on seroxat but it made everything worse.

just tell you, to explain my situation.

i do not earn my living now. i basicly live of my aunt and uncles money now. i am in the process of earning a degree similar to your masters degree. i hope i will able to work after that but actually i doubt it. two times i tried to work in a job, both times i was fired. i did my best. i really did. i always try to be the best i can be, but it is not enough.

the same with college. i do not have good grades. i always try to do the best i can do. but it is so complicated with only four hours sleep. we have semester break now, but i have to do papers. i try my best, but i realize that my best is not as good as anybody elsen does.

i go to college also in order to make my aunt and uncle proud because that was their dream and that makes me happy. college itself actually does not mean much to me. nothing means much to me those days.

about bad remarks about his parents: i know nobody likes to hear that... but i think that there are things in the world which are bad. if people or their parents are doing that one ought to tell them it is bad. otherwise they may believe it is right and in that case they or their parents will not stop doing it. i did not feel good telling him and i did not say "see, your father is bad to the core". i said "see, in my opinion your father does bad things".

may be not nice of me likewise. but i cannot tell him i think those things his father is doing are fine. because they are not.

i thought about that. may be i hurt his feelings. while we were having this argument i tried to say: "may be i did not choose the right words". he told me: "you are a pharisee. you are bad to the core, and you know it. i am afraid of people like you. i know why you are pretending to fight the bad in the world. because you are afraid of your own darkness. my father is a decent man, but you are bad to the core. my family are good people. a person like you never can judge us"
and i said: "if they are good people...i wonder why they have a son like you. you must be a disgrace for them" (that was just an stupid insult, but i was so mad at him)
he said: "your gonna end up in hell and your gonna end up there soon, because you are not going to live to an old age."
i said "shut up"
he said: "a lot of people think your are not going to be older than 35. they just do not tell you. but everybody knows. that is what you did to your life. all your own fault. you deserve it"
we ended up screaming at each other insults.
and then he screamed "you are bad. bad to the core. i am afraid of people like you." again.
and suddenly i felt very tired. i went out and did not say a word. and i went home and have not talked to him since.

actually he is not a good friend of mine. he is a pal, a friend of a friend. i thought if i have hurt his feelings. may be yes. most likely. but i do not want to go there tell him i am sorry, if there is the possibilty he tells me i am bad to the core again.

i fear: may be he analyzed my character right. when i was feeling better i voluntereed for a soup line. why did i? actually not out of the desire to help other people. i think i did because i felt i have darkness inside of me and i cannot fight it, so i fight the darkness in the world, because i cannot fight my own. and the only person who notices is a person who does not even know me very well and who hates me.

and i think of that a lot. like today: standing in the supermarket, because my aunt send me shopping. suddenly thinking "i am bad to the core. why bother about eggs and milk?". i spend so much time there. she said "i thought you would never come back".

than i was sitting in my room thinking about whether it is true i am bad and whether it is true everybody thinks i will die young and if i am really never going to be older than 35. that makes me cry and wallow i self-pity. i am 28 yet.

than i think "do not be ridiculous. how should he know how old you are going to be when you die??? oh, and by the way: didn't you want to die right now? so why that kvetching about dying young". actually not very logical thinking about suicide, but not wanting to die young.

i think i'll stop now. good mnight everybody. sorry for talking that much.

reachout 08-16-2007 07:08 PM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
Hello Christopher

Oh my goodness, Friend. You are not suffering from addiction right now, you are suffering from deep, deep depression! You have been clean for so long now. 7 1/2 years! I did not understand that at all when I read your first post!

I am so sad that your sufferering is so deep, so big and huge. It is a torment to you and I understand that torment so very, very well. The chemicals in yoyr brain are not being produced as they should be and used by the brain the way they should be. You are not bad at all, you are lost in deep depression. For many years you have been suffering and doing all you can to make your life one that you can be proud of and that will honor your parents who must have loved you very much and your aunt and uncle who love you, also. Even with all the pain in your heart and soul, you have struggled to move forward. You have not fallen back into heroin.... that is something to be so very, very proud to be able to say. I think the thoughts of it are strong in your mind because the depression hurts so much and your mind is trying to remember something, anything, to help it go away and leave you at peace. And this I understand also.

You do not need to go to a doctor to beat addiction.... you need to go to a doctor who can work hard to help you out of the depression! And we [U]can[/U] get out of depression. We can, it has happened for me twice. Severe clinical depression is a serious, serious illness. It does [U]not[/U] mean we are bad, rotten to the core, not worth anything, a burden to others, dumb, or hopeless at all. It does [U]not[/U] mean any of those things, although depression maks us [U]think[/U] those things. Thoughts. Bad thoughts. Bad thoughts that will not go away and make us feel just horrible. Depression torments the mind and soul. It is an illness just like cancer and diabetes and threatens our very being and live as much as any other serious illness. It makes our thoughts bring us around and around to every bad thing that has happened or that we have ever done in our lives. It blocks out all the good thoughts and the good things about us and will not let those thoughts come into our thinking.

Young man, you are a [U]good [/U]person with a bad illness. The fight with your friend. It was an argument. Both said some mean things in anger. The words stay in your head and keep hurting you because of the depression. What happened with your aunt and uncle and the furniture... that was a [U]long[/U] time ago. I am sure they have long ago forgiven you because they still have you in their house, they still support you because they love you. They [U]love[/U] you.

Please, you need to share, to tell them what is going on in your head! All the sadness and feeling so bad needs to be told to those who can really help you. You must stop hiding it away.There is no shame in depresssion... the only shame would be if you do not get help for it. WE can so be helped out of depression. A doctor, a psychiatrist needs this information. I think you should just print out this whole thread that has been written and show it to your aunt and uncle, to the doctor. It seems you have been on and off antidepressants ( I looked up the medicines you mentioned in your writing). Sometimes it takes a lot of tries with the medicines and often it takes a combination of medicines to help us. But eventually, the doctor will find what works for [U]you[/U].

There are deep sadnesses in your life. There are medicines that will help fix the body; other things will help fix the emotions. There are doctors and other professionals who can help us with the bad emotions and thoughts and help us learn how to change those feelings around and feel better emotionally. Oh, without a doubt this can be done.

I think the depression has been strong in you since before you ever started with heroin. The heroin added to the depression for sure, but you are not struggling with heroin right now as much as you are struggling in depression. Please get some good help which can only come if you tell your deep, dark thoughts outloud to your family and doctors. Do this right away, okay? Others do and will [U]understand [/U]exactly what is happening to you. Deep depression makes us feel so lonely and so alone. We are [U]not[/U] and there is so much that can be done to help us out of that dark, dark hole of depression.

You will be in my thoughts. I have hope that you will get the attention and help you need to feel and be better. Just like the heroin, you will be able to say one day that you have also beat depression.


oh-notagain 08-16-2007 07:09 PM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
Listening to you i hear a voice crying from the inside, crying for the way life used to be, before drugs, before anything bad ever happened. I hurt for you. I understand.
There is a way out of this. Truly there is. You must first face your fears. Please get into an aa or na group. find a sponsor, someone to help you through the steps. therein lies your hope, your answer. a way to not only learn to love yourself again, but to gain the trust and love of others. A way to make ammends for your actions. A way to live. A therapist is also a wonderful avenue for help. Please try something, anything. Just one step in the right direction will help you find your hope :)
I have been in your shoes. I was a heroin addict for 7 years, before that, opiate pills. I have done many many hurtful and wrong things to people i love very much. I have stolen money, borrowed money, stolen items from stores. lied, cheated. anything i could to get my drug. ive been to jail and to prison. i have gone bankrupt. i have lost my home, and my children temporarily. living in hell was a way of life, every day. 24 hours a day. for years.
it takes a long time to conquer those fears, to forgive yourself, to love yourself again. but in the process, others see you and see what you are doing and learn to trust again. Please do not give up hope. Life can be good again. A long long life. I am 43 years old now. I think ill live forever, well, maybe not that long. but in not ready to die anytime soon. i have been addicted to one thing or another since i was 14 years old.\
You are doing the things that you know will please your aunt and uncle but you dont feel it in your heart. You dont do well in school because you dont believe you will do well in school. Along with all of the wonderful changes that will begin to happen will be a renewed positive attitude. Try to wake up every morning and say to yourself "today is going to be a great day". Today i am just going to sit and talk to my aunt and uncle for 5 minutes. start slowly. feel the gratitude for them. and for what you DO have in life right now. It will help. I promise. Because if we are not grateful for what we do have right now, why should we recieve anything else?
I wish for you renewed hope, a long life. I pray for you. Please keep us posted....
and congratulations on your time clean. Be grateful for it. You are a miracle!!!

Michelle :angel:

joanharvest 08-17-2007 12:35 PM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
My son is 26 and his been off heroin for 2 1/2 years. He has been off crack for 7 months.. My son is a good, sweet, respectful, drug addict. His family loves him and always will. He has done some bad things too, when he was using. He is a drug addict and always will be. I think he finally realizes this. But that doesn't make him bad. I have never met a more thoughtful, polite, man. What you did is done and in the past. Now you live in the here and now. No guilt, just a future. And your future is what you make it. You can make amends with the people you have hurt but you cannot change the past. Once you make amends you move on to a good life without drugs. My son has been fired at least 4 times from jobs in the last few years but I know that if he doesn't give up he will find his way. Life goes on and so will he.

dani808 08-18-2007 07:55 AM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
The fact that you are even asking someone if you are bad says you aren't! Truly rotten people would say, "I am evil and bad and **** off". Hang in there, and not to sound like someone who found Jesus( not that there is anything wrong with that) but just say, "I give myself to a higher power and let you take control of my life where I have none!" Also, I did very bad things once for an addiction and I know I am good person. It is a bad thing that has control of you and makes you do bad things. Take some time and do things for others. Try and council kids or volunteer for animal rescues. You will see things turn around for you I promise. If you work for the good of others, you will be repaid for it! (it will also get your mind off of your own issues!)

nabor4life 08-18-2007 11:08 AM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
hello everybody,
thank you so much for your kind and caring answers.

@ joan: :) i am happy your son has a mum like that caring for him

@ at just everybody else: it is so good to talk to you and you do not judge me.

i know a lot of people think that i am a bad person. of course they do not tell me, but i know they do.

reachout, you say i should talk to my aunt and uncle about how i feel.
i have talked to them and they did not understand. then i stopped talking about this to them. i asked myself, if i should talk to them again.
sometimes i think i should, but sometimes i think i should not. i fear they will not understand me again. they have never been where i have been. how could they ever know or understand my feelings? and i have no words to explain those. i tried to explain to you all and i think you all understood something of what i wanted to say. you have been through the same thing. but how should they know? they have never been there.

+ as you said: my brain chemistry is messed up. my doctors hold the same opinion. both, my old psychiatrist and my gp told me my brain chemistry is messed up. so i need some medication. and i also need to work on it. i need to fight for my brain chemistry to become normal again (just do not know what to do). but, see, i am alone in there. others cannot help me, because it is just my brainchemistry. so i have to do this on my own.
but on the other hand: i am feeling lonesome, lost, scared (oh, not really scared. i feeling light scared, but not anxious, hard to describe), emptyemptyempty. i wish someone would cuddle me all day long. but not solve my problmes, just cuddle me all day long and than i would solve them on my own.
:dizzy: i am silly.

i have a problem with my thoughts. i just think to much. do not knwo how to explain. i have all to many thoughts in my head and they go in circles in my head and are leading nowhere.

that is what everybody says "hey chris, you are just thinking too much". they say it in my college all the time and they do not kn ow about my being sick.

but also when i tried to talk with people about my being sick they tell me that. my aunt and uncle both told me "hey, you are thinking too much. relax"

also my best friend said so. he said that was me key problem. said: "relax, will you?:nono: everything will be allright"

but i cannot just relax. be a bad person. relax.:dizzy: okay, i am a bad person. relax. it is great to be a bad person.:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

about talking: talking in the morning is complicated for me, because it feels hopeless. talking in the evening is okay. i do not understand. i depends on the time.
but this morning i had breakfast with my aunt and uncle talked to them. it was nice. feel proud:D .

and as i told you. i am thinking about heroin and it is UGLY thoughts.

ah, that sounds so silly. now that i am writing i beg ypu all laugh about it. i don`t have any words to explain. and thats makes me feel so bad. i still want it and it has brought so much evil and hurt for my family. it is a really bad thanig that should have never been invented... and i think about it and i feel so guilty for doing that.

i am surrounded by nice things and by nice people and i should not be thinking about something that ugly, but i do. i am ugly from the inside.

i told you, about the bad things i did. i cannot say "sorry" to everybody because there are some people i never met again, so i never could tell them i am sorry.

i cannot deal with the fact that i did things like that.

i cannot deal with the fact i have been on heroin. because that was my choice. i made bad choices. i chose.

@ michelle: thank you so much. you really want to pray for me? if you do, i will pry for you, too. i am a roman catholic. do you want a roman cthaolic to pray for you (some people do not). i will lighten a candle in the church for saint mary and i will pray for you if you want me to.

i am sure, that i will be okay. it is a lot of trouble with the medication. i had a pretty fine day today. sorry, if that sounds too wimpy.
i know i will be okay. i must jsut find the right medication. i used to be a little demoralized for the last few weeks because of that bad medication.

sorry for my bad english.

linda71 08-18-2007 12:33 PM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
You sound like you are hurting so bad! One thing you have to get in your head is your not alone! [B]PLEASE[/B] go to an NA meeting. There are a lot of groups out there and people that know what you are going through. When you talk about all the things you have done in your past, they are just that, your past, not now, not the future. You need to forgive yourself. Seven and a half years is something to be so [B]proud[/B] of! Heroin is probably one of the worse ones to get clean from.

I am addicted to lortabs or anyother pain medication I was able to get my hands on. I have things in my [U][B]past[/B][/U] that I am not proud of. I have been clean for three years and counting!

There is a prayer that is said at the beginning of N/A or AA meetings and that is:

[B]"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference."[/B]

I will be praying for you!

rozetat2 08-18-2007 06:05 PM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
Hi Chris
Im so sorry youre feeling this way. But i so understand. This past year Ive hated myself more than ever--trying so hard to get off pills, hurt people, have done horrible things, and have more and more thoughts of suicide--though I have 2 small kids and would never hurt them like that. But deep-down I know Im not a bad person, I just made mistakes. And youre not a bad-person either, actually you sound like a very nice person. I think too much also. It drives me crazy. Im telling you all this because i know where you are coming from. Dont do this to yourself. Fight off these inner demons. A lot of people really love you. When a negative thought pops in your head, you have to make it positive.
Dont give up Chris. I wont either. Lets not let negativity win. 10 years ago I went to AA and I was the happiest person in the world. Im going to start going again too. I know what i need to do to get better, its just doing it thats hard.
good luck to you!

joanharvest 08-18-2007 09:55 PM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
Honestly, if you were here I would give you the biggest hug. You just have to realize that yes, you did drugs, a bad decision, but it doesn't make you a bad person. It was a mistake, but everyone makes mistakes. You just have to realize that you have to move on, there is always a second chance and even a third and a fourth. You just have to not give up. It really doesn't matter what other people think, what matters is what you think. Please realize that we all have the chance to start over. The future is all we have. And we control it. No one else but ourselves. I am 58 years old and a food addict. 4 months ago I weighed 344 pounds. Today I weigh 304 pounds. I finally took control. yOU CAN DO IT TOO. It isn't easy but it can be done. Please keep coming here. :)


nabor4life 08-19-2007 02:04 AM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
i wanted to tell you how much i appreciate what you are writing, it helps me a lot.
linda, thank you too, for praying for me. and please i want to pray for you guys, if you want me too. today i am not going to church but i think i should go more regullary.

and @ joan: you can be proud of yourself *hugs you back*.

@ rozetat: how are you feeling today? yes, you should start going to the aa meetings again.

i wanted to ask you all, if you can do me a favour, taking here helps me so much.

joanharvest 08-19-2007 05:59 AM

Re: feeling of guilt (may be a touchy topic, please read only if you feel strong)
I don't have much time right now, but I'll write to you if I see you on here. I will pray for you. I will send you positive energy and good thoughts. :angel:

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