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  • Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting



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    Old 12-21-2007, 12:43 AM   #31
    fitz31
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    Re: The answer???

    Onyr,ultram Er Is An OPIOID I Hope You Know That.that Is Why You Feel So Much Better, I`m Kinda Confused I Thought You Were Lookin To Kik The Stuff But Now Your Usin??????? Explain If Youwill.peace.fitz.IT`S 3AM AND I`M BURNT BUTCAN`T SLEEP.GOOD GOD.

    Last edited by fitz31; 12-21-2007 at 12:49 AM.

     
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    Old 12-21-2007, 11:22 AM   #32
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    The only keys are another monkey or detox. Sorry to sound so negative.

    mk

     
    Old 12-21-2007, 12:41 PM   #33
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    I dunno guys. I know people who've came off suboxone and actually did it. I'm going down to 5 mgs starting tomorrow. And if you do it slowly and take your time tapering off, I think it can be done. You just can't jump from 3,2, or even 1 mg. You just have to kind of alternate.. your body can tell you when you need some. I have to believe this or otherwise I will absolutely freak. This medicine cannot be that hard to get off of? Why would a Doc that specializes in addiction and withdrawal put you on something that's as hard if not harder to get off of than what you were taking? It just doesn't make sense to me. I guess I'll find out as I take it a day at a time..

    Best of luck to all..
    g8tr

     
    Old 12-21-2007, 01:05 PM   #34
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    gatergirl,calm down and work with your dr only on this.while it is good to know the pros and cons of anything,it is not worth gettin all worked up over nothing.we all know there is an opiate in suboxone and that yes there will be some w/d when we decide to stop,but until then just enjoy being clean and not chasing the high and the pills.deal with the jump from sub when it happens and only then.there have been plenty of people that have used sub correctly and got off it with little discomfort and there have been plenty of people that had bad w/ds from the sub.it depends on many things from the time you take your first dose till the time you take your very last dose.if you dont want to read the debate about sub,skip threads that are doing this and live for today and enjoy it.worry about what might happen when it happens.you will be alright.good luck-spark

     
    Old 12-21-2007, 01:26 PM   #35
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    You know what? You just gave me a slap of reality.. and I appreciate it more than you know.. I sit here and worry about that and you're absolutely right.. just take it as it comes. There's no use in letting anything else influence my experience but what I've actually went through. And so far and right now it's a breeze. So you're right. I'm going to stop worrying about it. Everyone's experience is different. It's good to hear from you, Spark.. Hope you're doing well and I hope everyone has a Happy Holiday..

    g8trgrl

     
    Old 12-21-2007, 03:47 PM   #36
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    My biggest issue, besides the WDs from the suboxone, is my back pain. It's still herniated. I have issues sitting, like driving, more than 30 minutes. The pain is always there and once I got off the sub, it returned more than ever.

    Ultram was recommended by my doctor because it's a good medication... one pill once a day. It has no euphoric effect on me. Just helps the pain and STOPPED the horrible suboxone WDs.

    It's not like I'm going to be popping 50mg of hydro a day! One pill of the Ultram ER and I feel almost normal. Back pain is really so much better now.

     
    Old 01-18-2008, 03:02 PM   #37
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    I am currently on day 5 sub-free. I am doing pretty well so far. All of the flu like symptoms are gone. I only have minor back discomfort and am a little fatigued throughout the day. For me, day 3 was the worst. I did a lot of research (based upon what other people have posted all over the internet) and the whole key I believe is the 36 hour half life. If you jump too soon, the half life of this evil drug WILL get you BAD. I think the key is to gradually stabilize a lower doseage every 3 weeks ie: if you go from 8mg a day to 6 or 7 (whatever works for you) stay there for at least 3 weeks. Your body will be slowly adjusting to this doseage and for a few days you may feel a little sluggish but not full wd's. You may not even notice. I didn't notice until I got to 2mg's a day. When you get down to 1, do NOT jump yet. Go to at least .5mg for at LEAST 3 weeks. I did .5 for 18 days and seriously, I can deal with this. It is not that bad. I have heard that the 5th day is the worst and for me, day 3 was worse. Today actually was a pretty good day.

    Back to my original point. The half-life. If you are taking 4mgs a day and jump off then... after 36 hours you will still have 2mg in your system. After another 36 hrs ( a total of 72) you would still have 1 mg in your system ( the whole time suffering). After another 36 hrs ( a total of 108hrs or 4.5 days) you would still have .5 in your system. After another 36 hrs you would still have .25 mg in your system, etc,etc,etc. You can do the math.

    Now if you slowly taper and get to .5 mg a day over time with minor discomfort and NO full withdrawals, then when you level out after 3 weeks and DO jump, after 36 hours you would have .25 mg, after another 36 you would have .125 and after another 36 you would have .00625 (which I believe is nearly nothing. This is why I am feeling pretty good on day 5. Compare after 4.5 days jumping from 4mg and still having .5 mg in your system to having only .00625 in your system jumping from .5


    If you can measure lower and do it from .25 then that is even better. I also believe that we all scare the heck out of ourselves by reading all the horror stories. Do NOT understimate your self. You can do this. I know that when I expect something to be awful, then my mind makes it so even if it is not that bad. If you expect horror and pain then you will force your body to give it to you. We all want off of drugs or we would not be here seeking help. Stay positive and believe in yourself and you will suceed.

    Lastly, I am using the Thomas recipe and I am not sure if it is helping or not but it can't hurt because it is just vitamins and minerals and amino acids. He does recommend benzos but I refuse to take them. I do take clonidine to sleep. I am not sure if I need it but I do sleep well.

    Last edited by moderator2; 01-18-2008 at 03:29 PM. Reason: posted commercial website

     
    Old 01-18-2008, 04:59 PM   #38
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    Thanks for the advice!! I'm tapering from 4mgs now.. and what you say makes sense. I will definately try to follow that as close as possible

    g8trgrl

     
    Old 01-18-2008, 05:05 PM   #39
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    Just take it as slow as you can. Best of luck. If you need any support, I am here for you.

     
    Old 01-19-2008, 08:09 AM   #40
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    One thing that most doctors don't tell you about sub is that the brain really doesn't start healing until you completely stop taking the sub. Sub is like a pacifier for our hungry opiate receptors, and it doesn't help them "heal" as so many people believe. Doctors tell their patients they are healing...well, there;s soem truth to that, but not like you think.

    Sub can help you heal in some ways though. It, with therapy, can teach you how to get through the day without getting high, how to handle crisis without getting high, get you out of that routine of popping pills or whatever every few hours, and so on, but the brains receptors and endorphin production do not start healing until we are completely off it, according to my sub doctor and articles I have read. Some say the healing process may begin when we get to low levels of sub, like below 2 mg...I like to believe that is true but have my doubts.

    So, how can we get our brain to start healing once completely off sub? Many ways, but the best proven one is exercise, every day. This could be as little as a walk around the block to begin with, but if you sit on the couch feeling sorry for yourself, it will be a loooong haul.

    Replacing sub with Tramadol is a really bad idea. Tramadol works on our brains receptors just like hydrocodone does, so you might as well be popping Vicoden again. If anything, a tincy bit of suboxone when things get really tough would be a better idea, but agin, that will only slow down the healing process.

    Many doctors are still very naive about Tramadol. A few years back I had gone to see a new doctor and told him I was trying to kick opiates. He gave me this big lecture about how he will never give me any opiates so to hit the road if that was my intention, I assured him i didn't want any opiates prescriptions. He then offered me a prescription for Tramadol....What an idiot I thought to myself...that was my 1st and last visit to see him.

    It is a really good idea to taper all the way down to 1/4 mg and stabilize there for a few weeks before stopping altogether. If you are working with 8 mg tablets this is hard to do. What i do is split a pill in half. so i have 4 mgs. Then crush it into a powder, and divide it into equal piles on a plate with a razor blade. i just leave the plate up on a shelf and it doesn't seem to go bad being exposed to the air like that. I put my daily dose on a creased business card and pour it under my tongue. It works and i think is more accurate than trying to chop those crumbly little pills into tiny pieces. Someone else mentioned only doing tapers every 3-4 weeks...Good advice, or maybe even slower at times. However long it takes you to get your triggers under control.

    Withdrawls will very greatly depending on many many factors, i.e. your previous drug use, the dose of sub you started at, and whether or not you exercise and remain positive during your days during and after you stop using it altogether. And remember, pain, both physical and emotional will be inflated during this process...remember, it is only temporary...Keep busy and try to keep your mind off it. Prescription 800 mg ibuprfens work pretty darned good for with drawl related pain, or even 4 of the over the couter ones on occasion. There will be good days and there will be bad, but slowly the good will start to out number the bad. Hang in there and it will get better...and don't forget that exercise, every day.

    mano

     
    Old 01-19-2008, 09:42 AM   #41
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    I agree with everything you said mano except that taking even a small piece of sub during tough times of withdrawal can be counter productive but that is a personal choice. I am on day 6 and as long as I keep busy this is no sweat. If I sit and dwell that I am withdrawing then my mind makes it so therefore I believe that there is a LARGE mental factor. But again, that may just be my experience. I am certainly no expert. Also for me, hot baths along with excercise and a very healthy diet are helping a lot. Vitamin B-6, L-Tyrosine in the morning... A complete multi vitamin-mineral supplement as well as bananas for potassium also later in the day. I only use 600-800 ibuprofin (as mano said) for pain related to wd's. NO benzos, NO opiates. The amount of suffering that I am experiencing (and it is minor) is there for a reason and I am going to remember every bit the next time I think of using. If you ****** that Thomas recipe you will find the exactr recommendations for withdrawal supplements. I tried to post the link but I guess it is not allowed here.

    Mike

     
    Old 01-20-2008, 06:59 AM   #42
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    Mike,
    I question that statement I made myself about whether or not taking those tiny chips of suboxone after being detoxed is counterproductive.
    What my sub Dr. does is when people are done weaning, is she writes them a script for 120 of the 2 mg tabs, and it is her recommendation to use it down the road if we become heavily triggered to the point of using....Lets say you just caught your true love cheating on you, or a death of a loved one, or lose your job...something like that, the big triggers we all will have to face at times.
    My thought is that it might be counterproductive to the brain stabilizing itself to use any opiates including sub during those early months of recovery, but that's only a guess. It certainly would be a smarter alternative than running out and scoring some of their drug of choice. And being extremely stressed out is very unhealthy too, so the sub could help eliminate that. Like you said, it's a personal choice, and we all do what we have to do to get through things.

    mano

     
    Old 01-20-2008, 07:09 AM   #43
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    Hey mano,

    I never thought of that. Makes total sense. I guess I won't be flushing my last 24mgs in the bottle.....

    Anyway, day 7 today no sub today and it is a great day so far. Plenty of energy and for the first time in a long time I actually am not dreading getting up for work tomorrow.

    Enjoy the rest of the weekend all.

    M

     
    Old 01-20-2008, 01:56 PM   #44
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    Both of you guys are very knowledgeable. And bring up valuable information. Its really good to know this and have it on hand.. thanks guys for sharing!!

     
    Old 01-20-2008, 02:24 PM   #45
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    Re: Off Suboxone.... 6 days and counting

    g8tr,

    How are you doing on the taper? 3mg? how long so far? How do you feel?

     
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